BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: Strick
Date: 13 Apr 04 - 09:51 AM

"THE FACT, Strick, is that the Democrats are not the ones who requested this PDB. The 9/11 commission requested this PDB, and many other documents, and were refused for months by the White House."

Gee GUEST, do you work out how to twist things in advance or is it a talent? All I said was that Republicans didn't put the PDB out there, it's not a Republican plot. I have no comment at all on how long it took the Commission to get the documents they think they needed from either administration (did they get that second batch of Clinton stuff that had been withheld? they asking for it again last week). The PDB is by no means the end of the evidence, just a piece of the puzzle. It was highlighted by a couple of Democrats on the Commission, who, IMHO, mis-represented what it contained. Politically those Democrats benefit from this non-event more than Republicans. Their misrepresentation and what the PDB actually contains is essentially all I've commented on here.

Jim, I'll be interested in reading what the Commission says. Maybe it could have been prevented if Ben Laden had been killed or Al Qaeda had been hit harder earlier or if the intelligence services were more like they are in James Bond movies (sorry, trying to lighten the mood). Again, all I said is that Clarke admitted that all the things he recommended combined wouldn't have prevented 9/11.

That doesn't mean it couldn't have been prevented at all, though I suspect we'll discover that it could have been prevented in the same way that Pearl Harbor could have been prevented. If you knew the attack was possible and put up torpedo nets, if the handful of patrol planes had been sent in the right direction instead of ordered south by staff in Washington, if the people manning the new radar sets had properly interpreted their data, and so on. Before Pearl Harbor only a few people in the world believed you could sail aircraft carriers that far and use planes to attack with torpedoes in the shallow harbor. Unfortunately they were Japanese or Americans to low it the military pecking order to have much say. Top brass didn't believe it possible, and it wasn't by the old rules. The attack changed the world and made the new rules obvious in retrospect. In that case, the Top Brass were made scapegoats despite the fact that they were getting contradictory orders and information from all side, all the way up the chain of command. Being obvious in retrospect is very different from being obvious before the fact, of course, so eventually the Top Brass at Pearl were vindicated and the final responsibility shared.

Before 9/11 only a few people had considered using planes as missles...

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 01:28 AM

OMG, did anyone watch Bush's press conference? Ouch. Flinch. Cringe. It was embarrassing; I had to keep looking away.

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: ard mhacha
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 12:01 PM

Cringe was putting it mildly, when John aSked him about the mistakes he made, there was a long silence, Bush was dumb-struck and then produced this gem, "Well John there has been a lot going through my mind, if it comes into my head I will let you know", it may not be his exact words but I am likely being kind to this fool.
Surely the people who voted for this man are by far more foolish tnan this specimen of humanity.
Press conference, it was more like a depress conference.

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 01:57 PM

"...did they get that second batch of Clinton stuff that had been withheld? they asking for it again last week"

Strick, the Clinton people weren't the ones preventing the release of those materials, the Bush White House had refused to turn them over to the commission.

"Jim, I'll be interested in reading what the Commission says."

I doubt that. You don't seem to have bothered reading and listening closely to what they have said and written so far, Strick. That much is obvious by your posts, which are ill informed, and often downright wrong. But they do reflect your "only Republicans/Bush are right, the Democrats/Clinton are wrong" worldview that you've demonstrated over and over in these threads.

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: Peg
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 01:58 PM

Immediately following the August 6 meeting where this memorandum was introduced, Bush took the afternoon off to go fishing.

Thus was during the ENTIRE MONTH that he spent at his ranch in August 2001.

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 02:28 PM

GUEST 14 Apr 04 - 01:57 PM,

From the style and tenor of your postings, I take it that you are the one who, now how did you put it? "I have no intention of debating with closed minded, right wing ideologues".

Having read through the respective contributions (yours and Strick's) to the discussion on this thread. You, dearheart, appear to be the one who doesn't seem to have bothered reading and listening closely to what has been said and written so far.

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: Strick
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 04:32 PM

"...did they get that second batch of Clinton stuff that had been withheld? they asking for it again last week"

They said last night they got them.

"You don't seem to have bothered reading and listening closely to what they have said and written so far, Strick."

Well, I haven't gotten through all of it, but I react most strongly to where their logic seems to fail and then I read it and what background information I can find most thoroughly.

I freely admit I'm working from a perspective more to the right than most on this forum (you should see what the guys further on the right are saying!), but will point out that I'm defending Clinton in another thread because I don't think it's reasonable to claim he could have prevented 9/11.

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: jaze
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 09:07 PM

Bush could have stated the obvious and the truth last night. OUR government let us down. All of it. No one in particular to blame. Many people and agencies if working together as a government maybe could have caught on to it. The problem now is to fix it so it never can happen again

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 09:45 AM

It really can't be "fixed". It's not possible. Sure, it can be patched up and reshuffled and the flow charts can be redrawn, but it can't be fixed. There will always be folks who will use violence for purposes other than defense. But with that said, we can try to change the atmosphere that promotes violence. And, if this little experiment (Earth) is to suceed, we will have to, sooner better than later.

As fir the Clinton PDB, yes, I heard that there is 1 that the Commission has requested and the steps are being taken by the Clinton Library to get it to them.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 09:46 AM

From Slate mag:

"Joe Conason has calculated that up until Sept. 11, 2001, Bush had spent 54 days at the ranch, 38 days at Camp David, and four days at the Bush compound in Kennebunkport—a total of 96 days, or about 40 percent of his presidency, outside of Washington.

Yet by that inference, Bush has remained a remarkably out-of-touch—or at least out-of-town—leader, even in the two and a half years since 9/11. Dana Milbank counts that through his entire term to date, Bush has spent 500 days—again, about 40 percent of his time in office—at the ranch, the retreat, or the compound.

The 9/11 commission has unveiled many critical problems in the FBI and the CIA. But the most critical problem may have been that the president was off duty."

---

A

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 04:07 AM

All of which is irrelevant Amos. Doesn't matter where he is, he is the President of the United States of America - don't try to equate someone in that sort of position being "on holiday" to Joe Bloggs down the street being "on holiday".

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: GUEST,Jim McCallan
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 04:22 AM

Amos never mentioned 'being on holiday', or at least I didn't equate that post with any inference to Bush 'being on holiday'.

I think most people expect The President's job to be a 24/7 one.

But the fact that these statistics keep appearing, seems to imply to me that this is not, or should not be, normal behaviour for a man who has such a 'hands on' job as he has.

It also appears that GWB never actually read PDBs. Any of them. He apparently only had them summarised verbally to him.
Clinton, also apparently, used to kick everybody out and read them himself, in private.

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 05:27 AM

Hi Jim,

No the "on holiday" bit was entirely mine, nothing to do with Amos.

But in the piece that Amos posted, there are the following which I equated to being the same as someone being "on holiday"

"..up until Sept. 11, 2001, Bush had spent 54 days at the ranch, 38 days at Camp David, and four days at the Bush compound in Kennebunkport—a total of 96 days, or about 40 percent of his presidency, outside of Washington."

By inference:

"Bush has remained a remarkably out-of-touch—leader"

I have deliberately omitted the "or at least out-of-town—leader", because what the author was trying to project to his readers was that Bush was remarkably out of touch. His research has shown clearly that he was at least an out-of-town-leader. There has been no evidence to date to substantiate what Joe Conason is trying to infer.

The inference, leading to me coining the "on holiday" term comes from: "But the most critical problem may have been that the president was off duty."

Who has said he was OFF DUTY? What proof has been offered that he was OFF DUTY? Answer in both cases is none - but it has been inferred, no basis in fact, but that is not going to stop people all to ready to believe it coming out and repeating as fact:

- Look at the time he (GWB) was absent from Washington
- Look where he was spending 40% of his time
- He only spends 60% of his time at work.
- He's the most out of touch President in recent time

None of the above are based on fact, Joe Conason's research, and the way it has been presented, is deliberately meant to mislead, and misrepresent - And I believe that Mr. Conason knows that full well.

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 05:45 AM

No, fair enough, Teribus. Off duty would be hard to prove, all right.

Still, Bush isn't the brightest of individuals, and there's already some talk about him not being on the ball.

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: GUEST,Jim McCallan
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 05:46 AM

... sorry about that... thought I'd put my name in the box...

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: Amos
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 08:28 AM

Right -- he's as in touch with his administration on vacation as he is when he's in the Oval Office, because he really runs the nation telepathically, T?

Never mind. This is far too late in the sequence to arrive at a resolution between your view and mine.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing
From: Strick
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 11:37 AM

Common, Amos, the Ranch has more communications than the rest of the county it's in combined. Haven't you seen the conference room with the three sets of teleconferencing equipment? Don't you know about the politicians and foreign dignitaries who are brought to the ranch for imformal arm twisting? There's someone there all the time.

Have you forgotten that everyone in DC takes August off? Except the President who only changes where he works. Ever hear of Camp David? Eisenhower spent a huge proportion of his presidency running the country from there. There's no difference.