Origins: Little Ball of Yarn

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 07:22 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8H9wpMBVtw dick miles ball of yarn

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 05:04 PM

...so we know that such popular songs as "Anymore"
come from such bawdy ballads as "The Little Ball of Yarn"...

From "In Defense of Bawdy Ballads" by Oscar Brand. Modern Man magazine. Jan, 1957.


Does anyone know the popular song "Anymore" that Brand references ?

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 24 - 10:58 PM

Heard this song a lot back in the 1960s in Devon and Cornwall, but always with the chorus:

"Sweet Belinda, Sweet Belinda
Tell me truly, tell me truly you'll be mine
Like the blackbird and the thrush, keep your hand upon your brush
And your finger on your little ball of twine".

Guessing that the Sweet Belinda bit was borrowed from another song, and ditto for "twine" replacing "yarn". Who was Belinda, or was the phrase Sweet Belinda a profanity of local (West Country) origin? (I seem to recall Sweet Belinda being shouted rather than sung).

Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 12:50 PM

...There were also numerous references to the song [little ball of yarn]:
a piece about a sumptuous dinner given by members of the Crescent City
Battalion of the Louisiana State Militia in 1879 described the
soldiers exchanging jokes and songs, among which we cannot help
mentioning the 'Little ball of Yarn,' which was up to the point and
admirably rendered." 24

Reference found in Elijah Wald's Jelly Roll Blues. 2023.


See online here: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Jelly_Roll_Blues/3SfQEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22ball+of+yarn%22+song&pg=PT114&printsec=frontcover


I don't have the book and can't check the endnote #24 for the source reference. Endnotes are not online.

This date would antedate the song prior to the popular song.   So not a parody of the 1884 song...

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 01:29 PM

In the hurried examintation given by us of the
Cornell Song book, just published as we went to
press, we did not perceive a glaring fault which we
should have noticed at the time. Our criticism is
that the book is incomplete, inasmuch as several
important songs are omitted. Nowhere do we find
"Kaiser's Little Dog," "Peeler, Peeler," "Student
of Cadiz," "Little Ball of Yarn," "Corduroy,"
"Room, Boys, Room," and a host of others, too
numerous to mention. While we realize that the
editors were very much hurried in the preparation of
the work, we must condemn their carelessness in
the omission of so many popular Cornell Songs.
Truly, the field is yet open to some aspiring musi-
cian.

September 30, 1881. The Cornell Era. Vol. XIV, No. 3. Pg 33.


See here: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924107259040&seq=41&q1=ball+of+yarn

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 01:48 PM

Great find.

New Orleans Democrat (May 15, 1879), p. 8:

"During the evening's entertainment many songs were sung, among which we cannot help mentioning the 'Little Ball of Yarn,' which was up to the point and admirably rendered."

Also:

Scott Valley News (Ft. Jones, Calif.) (Jan. 18, 1880), p. 3: "Mr. Sekelly sang his favorite 'Little Ball of Yarn.'"

The Evening News (St.Joseph, Mo.) (June 9, 1880), p. 4:

"It is understood that a number of young ladies are very anxious to learn that new and popular ballad, 'Winding Up That Little Ball of Yarn.' They should have some of their young gentlemen friends sing it for them."

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 02:42 PM

Elijah Wald also mentions "...A version [of "Yellow Yorlin"] recorded in
New Hampshire referred to 'a bird I call my little yorkla harlin'..."
but there is no reference. I know of no printed versions of the Yellow
Yorlin' outside of the original "Merry Muses of Caledonia" in 1799.
The reprints from the 1800s omit this song. So I am very curious to
find a field collected text of "Yellow Yorlin'" or at least a reference
to the song in the 1800's.

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 06:05 PM

I've found nothing on "little yorkla harlin," but here's an interesting rhyme about the "yellow yorlin" (yellowhammer):

Newcastle Weekly Chronicle (Newcastle-on-Tyne) (May 25, 1889), p. 8:

"In the writer's schoolboy days, there was a rhyme supposed to be descriptive of the evil propensities of this handsome and harmless bird. It was something to the effect that

    The yellow yorlin
    Drinks a drap o' the de'il's bluid every May morning."

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 07:26 PM

The "Yorkla Harlin" song is in the following collection:

Eloise Hubbard Linscott collection, circa 1815, 1929-2002
Series II: Sound Recordings (continued)
SR069, September 28, 1946
1 10-inch disc
Performed by Maynard Reynolds, in Pittsburg, New Hampshire. Collector's original ID: III.
Side A:
Digital ID: afc1942002_sr069a
All Of Her Answers It Was No
Yorkla Harlin

See online here: https://findingaids.loc.gov/db/search/xq/searchMferDsc04.xq?_id=loc.afc.eadafc.af013006&_start=1734&_lines=125

Info provided by Elijah Wald. Thanks Elijah!

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 08:36 PM

Do we have the words, John? If not, we don't know what the phrase means or refers to.

If the song really is "The Yellow, Yellow Yorlin," it could be an astonishing missing link.

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 09:54 PM

Dartmoor singer Bill Murray recorded the song with the Sweet Belinda chorus on his "Down 'pon Ole Dartymoor" album, though he sings "yarn" and not "twine". No indication of his source though....

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 26 Dec 24 - 08:05 AM

Lighter, I have emailed Elijah. I will update this thread if I learn anything.

The Golden Skein

Oh, it was in the month of May
When rams and heifers sport and play
And tiny birds do sing a charm --
I met a fair young man.

The sun shone on his flaxen hair,
His cheek was high and rosy fair,
And when he spoke most courteously,
'Twas like the sound of Spring.

"Oh, would you mind," he said to me,
"If I do tag along with thee,
Perchance to help thee bind thy hair
Or weave the golden skein?"

"Oh, no, kind sir, this cannot be
For you're a stranger unto me
My mistress bids, I will not bide
Or pass the idle day."

"'Tis best you go and seek out those
With riches fine and frilly clothes
Where ladies fair do plait and bind
Or weave th? golden skein"

But, oh, the day was sweet and warm
And th?re was pleasure in his form
To idle was my moment's ease
The rest, my heart's desire

So gently took he by the hand
To wander softly 'cross the land
To pluck a rose to bind my hair
To tread the flowered stream

Then on my breast he wound a chain
Around and fro and back again
And in a cloak of lace entwined
He wove the golden skein

1966. Dumbarton's Drums LP by The Beers Family.

On the back cover they say this is an "anonymous author".
The Beers Family put in a copyright for The Golden Skein
when they re-released the album in 1972. I don't have
that recording to see if it is different.

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 26 Dec 24 - 08:29 AM

For a similar example [of folk expurgation]
from America, we again turn to the repertory of Robert
Beers. In 1943, Mr. Beers learned two distinct versifications
of the same piece from his grandfather North Freedom, Wisconsin.
The following version of "The Little Ball of Yarn" was sung
by George Sullivan exclusively to all-male audiences:

THE LITTLE BALL OF YARN

1. It was in the month of May, when the lambs do sport and play
And the birds in the bushes sang a charm,
That I met a fair young maid, and to her I did say,
"May I wind for you your little ball of yarn?"

2. "Oh, no, kind sir," said she, "You're a stranger unto me
And I fear that you may bring to me great harm.
You better go for those who have money and fine clothes,
And wind for them their little ball of yarn."

3. But I took this handsome maid and I led her to the shade
While the birds in the bushes sang a charm,
And the blackbird and the thrush hid their head behind the brush
Whilst I would for her her little ball of yarn.

On occasion, George Sullivan would sing the related ballad of
"The Golden Skein" to mixed audiences:

[ Omitting lyrcs of "The Golden Skein"
[
[ Listen to "The Golden Skein" online here:
[
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJqw0d4lnhU
   

Beers reports his grandfather was aware that these two pieces
where different versions of the same ballad tale, and that
the erotic metaphors of the later piece [The Golden Skein]
were likely to me missed in the course of their being sung
to an exquisite Victorian melody, whereas the former item,
sung to a pedestrian, hackneyed tune, had little to distract
a listener from its patently bawdy text. It should be noticed
in this context that though both songs contain related
euphemisms for the same sexual referents, the humorous
metaphor of "the little ball of yarn" was so obvious and
so widely known it could not serve to conceal its bawdry
from either male or female audience. It had lost it
euphemistic value and had thus become "a man's song."
The "golden skein" metaphor, far more poetic and largely
unfamiliar as a sexual euphemism to members of either sex,
could be performed by both men and women before mixed
audiences without offending anyone.

Goldstein, Kenneth S. "Bowdlerization and Expurgation:
Academic and Folk". pg 380. Journal of American Folklore.
Vol. 80, No. 318 (Oct.-Dec. 1967). pp. 374-386.

Stable link: https://www.jstor.org/stable/537416

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Dec 24 - 10:40 AM

it's not that good of a song for all this

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 26 Dec 24 - 07:54 PM

Little Ball of Yarn

One sunny day in June
When the flowers were in bloom
And the bird singing gaily on the barn;
I met a pretty miss
And I simply asked her this,
"Can I weave it in that little ball of yarn?"

She gave me her consent
So behind the fence we went
Not a-knowin' that we had so many charms;
There I laid her on the ground
And I lifted up her gown,
And I wove it in that little ball of yarn.

It was nine days after that
In the doctor's chair I sat
Not a-knowin' that she done me any harm;
And the doctor there in white
Said "Young man you're got to fight!
You're be weaving in that little ball of yarn."

It was nine months after that
In the same damned room I sat
Not a-knowin' that I done her any harm;
And the officer in blue,
Said, "Young man I'm after you.
You've been weaving in that little ball of yarn."

c1945. Apples of Eden: A Private Collection of American Folk-Lore:
Gathered from cowboys, college boys, and latino americanos by a
liberal who does not believe that these choice morsels should be
thrown out of American Literature because of their vigorous and
unconventional language. After all, a manure pile by any other name
would smell no better! And even a manure pile has its values.
77 pages. 4to. (Berkley, California? ca. 1945.) Typescript.


See online here: https://archive.org/details/1945applesofeden/page/n26/mode/1up


GUEST any song that lasts at least 145 years (if not 225 years)
in oral traditions is worth tracing. There is something makes people
want to learn it and sing it!

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 26 Dec 24 - 09:09 PM

Sweet Belinda

It was in the month of June
When the roses were in bloom
I was staying at my grandfather's farm
There I met a pretty maid
And unto her I said
Let me wind up your ball of yarn

Sweet Belinda, sweet Belinda
Tell me truly, tell me truly, you'll be mine
Like the blackbird and the thrush
Keep your hand upon your brush
And your finger on your little ball of yarn.

Well I took her by the arm.
And I laid neath the tree
Meaning to do her no harm
But the devil entered me
And I got up to her knee
And I wound up her little ball of yarn.

Sweet Belinda, sweet Belinda
Tell me truly, tell me truly, you'll be mine
Like the blackbird and the thrush
Keep your hand upon your brush
And your finger on your little ball of yarn.

Well many months had passed
Before I saw this little lass
She was carrying a baby in her arm
So she looked up so black at me
For the reason you could see.
I had wound up her little ball of yarn.

Sweet Belinda, sweet Belinda
Tell me truly, tell me truly, you'll be mine
Like the blackbird and the thrush
Keep your hand upon your brush
And your finger on your little ball of yarn.

2008. Down 'pon Ole Dartymoor CD by Bill Murray


Listen online: https://wrenmusic1.bandcamp.com/track/sweet-belinda

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 27 Dec 24 - 10:14 PM

Yorkla Harlin

One morning in may
As the chance for to stray
Just as the day was a-dawning
Oh I spied a lovely maid
And she my heart betrayed
Will you marry me my little Yorkla Harlin?

Oh no, no says she
That thing could never be
For I have a far better darling
His horses and his cows
His ox and sheep and plows
And a bird I call my little Yorkla Harlin

Oh if I should lay you down
Upon the cool ground
Who'd know the least thing about it?
Oh my mammy she'd be mad
And my daddy's twice as bad
If you played up on my little Yorkla Harlin

I took her by the slender waist
And gently laid her down
She being squealing and squalling
And the blackbird and thrush
Sang so quietly in the brush
While I played up on her little Yorkla Harlin

September 28, 1946. Transcribed from the singing of Maynard Reynolds,
in Pittsburg, New Hampshire. Found in the Eloise Hubbard Linscott
collection at the Library of Congress. Digital ID: afc1942002_sr069a

Subject: Little Ball of Yarn => Yellow Yellow Yorlin
From: and e
Date: 28 Dec 24 - 01:20 PM

In the second verse it may be "He has" contracted to "He's"

He's horses and he's cows
He's ox and sheep and plows

This really doe match up with the Yellow Yellow Yorlin.

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Dec 24 - 05:07 PM

Amazing.

"A bird I call my little Yorkla Harlin" clinches it.

My educated guess is that the later stanzas about disease, a man in blue, and prison arose in university, prison, or military circles, presumably in the 20th century, when bawdy songs became a lot bawdier - or so it seems.

The "prison cell" stanza, however, parodies George F. Root's once famous Civil War song about a POW, "Tramp, Tramp, Tramp" (1863), which begins:

"In the prison cell I sit,
Thinking, mother dear, of you."

Subject: RE: Origins: Little Ball of Yarn
From: and e
Date: 28 Dec 24 - 07:21 PM

I still need to type out the two versions of Oscar Brand's "Little Ball
of Yarn" and then trace those two versions in the various mimeographed
and digital songbooks. Brand's version is in the Hash House Harrier
printed & online songbooks and I don't know *anyone* in that group that
sings the ball of yarn.