BS: Another Aussie cry baby

Subject: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: G-Force
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 03:07 AM

It's a bit like the school playground bully, who turns out to be the biggest coward of all when he gets in trouble with teacher. Now we're being treated to the sight of the sledgemeisters crumpling into tears because they've been caught cheating.

I must say, I'm enjoying every minute of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Jos
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 03:33 AM

I was just about to watch a news summary, and his performance was the first item. I turned it off.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 03:38 AM

I reckon it was a ridiculous and unconvincing display of crocodile tears. Complete lack of self-respect. Pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 02:04 PM

very cynical. i felt sorry for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 02:52 PM

There are three batsmen conspiring to tamper with a cricket ball, and they do not tell a single bowler what they are doing? Come on, that stretches credulity a bit far.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 02:54 PM

It reminded me a bit of that Oscar Pistorius sobbing and retching in court.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 04:27 PM

They all need to man-up. Weeping like a bunch of big Jessies, they should be ashamed of themselves. A disgusting, pathetic display of crocodile tears. They disgust me.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 04:29 PM

Any links to clue the rest of the non-Oz world into these current events?

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 05:40 PM

Once you head down the road of dirty tricks - bodyline, sledging... - it has to lead to things that can’t avoid being recognised as out and out cheating.

Australian cricket seems to have led the way in encouraging a winning-is-all-that-matters philosophy, and other countries have gaily followed. Perhaps this could be a wak-up call for them. Though I doubt it. Those tears didn’t,t look like tears of shame, just tears of embarrassment at being found out.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: rich-joy
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 06:27 PM

Most of the Aussie Catters are at The Nash (National Folk Festival), so you won't get much of an Aussie PoV until mid next week.

Myself, I couldn't care less about ANY sport, let alone Cricket - and the imminent Commonwealth Games (like a mini Olympics) down on the Gold Coast, just means more road congestion and more rubbish chatter on the airwaves to me!

However, I was struck by the comment of Backwoodsman above : "They all need to man-up. Weeping like a bunch of big Jessies, they should be ashamed of themselves. A disgusting, pathetic display of crocodile tears. They disgust me."
It COULD be said that (the Cricket-cheating issue aside), with views like that still extant, regarding Men showing their Emotions, it's no wonder Society has so many problems to this day!!

Just my 2 cents' worth.... :)

Play On.
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 06:59 PM

They should indeed be ashamed of themselves, in which case weeping would be perfectly appropriate. Weeping because you are embarrassed at being found out is a bit wet and undignified, whether you are a man or a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 07:27 PM

The New York Times ran a feature story on this subject on March 26.
I just tried to link it, and the computer pitched a fit, sorry about that. At least I still have my cookie.

So, a typical ignorant Yankee question:
what is "sledging" ? in cricket, that is?

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 18 - 08:08 PM

Sledging? Here's a Wikipedia article that explains it at length. I'm sure it goes on in sporting circles in America, though perhaps not so blatantly.

The nicest commentary on it I've heard is the apocryphal story of an Australian captain's effort to halt the practice in its early days. An English player in a test match complains that he'd been put off by being called a bastard (a remarkably mild example these days. At the interval the Aussie captain lines up his team and tells them off "Which one of you bastards called that bastard a bastard?"

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 03:34 AM

Rich-Joy, McG, I have no problem with men weeping, I'm an emotional man myself - all sorts of things can make me cry, images of cruelty, war, or thinking of loved ones now gone, strong emotional feelings for others and of loss. Those are normal emotions, and weeping is a normal reaction.

But the displays we were subjected to by three filthy cheats were nothing of that sort. They were demonstrations of self-pity, of the realisation that they had been caught in the act of deceit, and they were crocodile tears - fake, an act for the sole purpose of trying to garner public sympathy, and a pathetic attempt to save the careers the have wrecked by their own actions.

I would have respect for them if they had at least stood erect and shouldered responsibility for their actions with dignity. But what they did was behave like cringing brats who'd been caught with their fingers in mum's purse, snivelling in an attempt to minimise her anger and their punishment.

Disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 04:24 AM

Well said Backwoodsman, that's it in a nutshell.

Of course men (and women) weep, when the situation is tragic, traumatic or desperate.
But this was a 'display' for the benefit of the cameras in my view.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 05:37 AM

Precisely, Sen. Despicable people trying to save their own arses.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Iains
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 05:49 AM

hell of an advert for Australian men. Must be those gender bender chemicals in the water.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 05:58 AM

I really enjoy watching Bondi Rescue, which follows the activities of the lifeguards on Bondi beach near Sydney. Those men are absolute heroes. They risk their lives many times a day, and never, ever make a fuss. They wouldn't dream of dissolving into tears, even though they witness some awful situations (drownings, resuscitations, shark-bite injuries and so on.) They seem to be ever-cheerful and steady as rocks.
(There are women lifeguards there too, just as stalwart)

I don't think one can transfer one's disgust at these Weepy Willies to include all Aussies. Just as in the rugby rape thread, one can't condemn all rugby players or all team sportsmen in the light of the actions of a few.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:02 AM

I doubt very much if there was anything phoney about their being reduced to tears, by reason of embarrassment, humiliation and being aware how much they have damaged their careers.

However I also doubt very much whether there was much shame for cheating itself, rather than for being caught at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:13 AM

Yes McGrath, as you say, it's the difference, isn't it, between true remorse and shame at being caught.

The sheer number of pupils I've dealt with over the years doing the old snottin'-and-snivellin' routine when being punished for stupid/bad behaviour has given me a bit of an insight into how to evaluate tears!

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Iains
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:28 AM

old snottin'-and-snivellin' routine

You have a way with words!

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 06:39 AM

Hahaha Iains. It's a Norfolk expression. My old neighbour still says to his daughter, "Thass not a bit of good yew standin' there a-snottin' and a-snivelling moi gal!"

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 01:16 PM

well i think it was a bit harsh treatment. all the bowlers keep rubbing the ball. they just did the intelligent thing and rubbed the ball with an abrasive.

and anyway we should let the colonies win. after all they live in hot places, with insects and snakes. letting them win at cricket is the least we could do.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 02:20 PM

Many sportsmen cry; I remember Gazza weeping. Mostly, if I'm not being too harsh here, their tears are for themselves.
What surprises me is that the authorities don't simply change the texture of cricket balls, roughening them all so there's no longer any advantage in sandpapering them.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 02:42 PM

Then, maybe we could have ready made rough patches on the pitch for spin bowlers to aim at too…

Being a bit silly there but I think the (“untampered with”) changing condition of the ball (new one available after 80 overs in a test match), changing state of the pitch and I suppose for that matter weather conditions (eg. overcast conditions can help the ball swing) are all part of the game.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Helen
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 02:45 PM

My (Aussie) opinion is that they were weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth at losing their lucrative contracts, worth millions. Whatever crushing blows they suffered in front of the media can't possibly compare to the crisis they suffered at home from their families, I'm sure. And now their future as bread winners, at the prime of life, is very much in doubt. Their whole lives have come crashing down in an instant, and all I can say is, "What were they thinking?"

Yes, I think the tears are for being found out, but I also think it is for suddenly being hit with consequences which will affect them for the rest of their lives. It reminds me of the speeders and drink drivers on the road who try to weasel out of it because now, when it is too late, they have had to stop and think about their actions, and they don't want to take personal responsibility for the consequences - which they never thought through in the first place but cannot ignore now - and they cry "poor me".

I think Backwoodsman 01 Apr 18 - 03:34 AM, said it all in a nutshell.


Wiki explanations of ball tampering, sledging & bodyline:

Ball tampering - I had to read that to understand what the issue is all about, not being a cricket fan myself.

"Sledging (cricket) "is a term used in cricket to describe the practice whereby some players seek to gain an advantage by insulting or verbally intimidating the opposing player. The purpose is to try to weaken the opponent's concentration, thereby causing him/her to make mistakes or underperform. It can be effective because the batsman stands within hearing range of the bowler and certain close fielders; and vice versa. The insults may be direct or feature in conversations among fielders designed to be overheard."

"Bodyline, also known as fast leg theory bowling, was a cricketing tactic devised by the English cricket team for their 1932–33 Ashes tour of Australia, specifically to combat the extraordinary batting skill of Australia's Don Bradman. England's use of a tactic perceived by some as overly aggressive or even unfair ultimately threatened diplomatic relations between the two countries before the situation was calmed.

"A bodyline delivery was one where the cricket ball was bowled at the body of the batsman, in the hope that when he defended himself with his bat, a resulting deflection could be caught by one of several fielders standing close by. This was considered by critics to be intimidatory and physically threatening, to the point of being unfair in a game that was supposed to uphold gentlemanly traditions."

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 07:58 PM

How cricket has changed. Used to be that a good catch was greeted by "Well held, sah", and a good hit by a polite ripple of applause, no matter which side made either.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: rich-joy
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 08:10 PM

Thanks for those explanatory links, Helen.

NOT to condone the recent actions of the 3 Oz reprobates at all, but it would seem from those Wiki listings, that most countries have had national cricketers not above using questionable tactics "in a game that was supposed to uphold gentlemanly traditions".   Perhaps they're all following the examples often set by their gentlemen Politicians and Business Leaders?!    After all, apparently all is fair in Love, War and Business :))

Yet another excuse for me to eschew Sport, Politics, Business - and News broadcasts - and prefer the pastimes of Music, Books, and the Net, LOL!

R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Helen
Date: 01 Apr 18 - 11:27 PM

Hi rich-joy, maybe they took the Barnaby Joyce: Art of Crocodile Tears 101 course. I agree about having better pastimes than sport, politics and business.

I'm sure that the current batch of cricketers are privately whingeing to each other about having cameras every which way they turn. How can a man do his thing in private when there are cameras pointed at him from all sides? It's just not cricket!

And Senoufou, those Bondi lifesavers are real heroes, along with the firies (firemen and women), ambos (ambulance officers) and police, nurses, doctors, teachers, farmers etc who keep the world turning on a minute fraction of the pay received by sports people. I can't see the sense in paying a cricketer millions of dollars and all the real heroes live on a wage, scrabbling to make ends meet. But that comment might be off topic, I suppose.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: rich-joy
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 02:58 AM

"I can't see the sense in paying a cricketer [ or any SportsPerson ] millions of dollars and all the real heroes live on a wage, scrabbling to make ends meet."
Couldn't agree more, Helen.

Something to do with their importance as money-making pawns for those "Gentleman" Politicians and Businessmen, I suspect!!

Might be a slight "thread creep", but WHO are the REAL creeps, one wonders .....

R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: rich-joy
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 09:10 AM

NOT that I am s'posed to be interested at all :))   but tonight there was an interesting ABC-TV background doco on the Oz cricket debacle :

"CAUGHT OUT"
"When did Australian cricket adopt a win-at-all-costs culture? When did it turn toxic?
We investigate what led to the cheating scandal and why Steve Smith, the man with the country's highest sporting honour, played a key role."

Not sure if it can easily be viewed from O/S, but here's the link :
https://iview.abc.net.au/programs/caught-out/NS1861V001S00
It's up for 1 month .....

R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 11:38 AM

I wonder if it's a product of the 'Americanisation' of Australia that has manifested itself over the past 20-30 years? That's how it appears to an outsider from The Old Country - the two things certainly seem to have followed a parallel course, if nothing else.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 12:02 PM

It’s not clear to me when sledging started but perhaps things took a tougher line after Alan Border decided to take a harder edge? To quote wikipeida:

“I made a personal choice to have a harder edge as captain, be more stand-offish towards them [the English] ... It was a hard thing to do and they all got the shits, but it was all part and parcel of what I wanted to achieve.”

But to single out Australia as win at all costs baffles me a little.

Our James Anderson seems quite pleased with the results of sledging here

Stuart Broad’s (quite legal but) refusal to walk is quite well known whereas Australia’s Adam Gilchrist was well known for having the opposite view.

Where do we begin and can we get too partisan?

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Helen
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 03:57 PM

rich-joy, I did consider watching the ABC doco and I trust the ABC to tell it like it is, no punches pulled, but cricket-schmicket, ho-hum!

I once upset a work colleague who had been waxing lyrical about the joys of cricket, when I said, "Cricket's all right - if you want to have a good sleep."

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 04:33 PM

When I worked at Heathrow in the early 70's, we met citizens of literally every country in the world over the course of a year. I once overheard a tea-room discussion about whom we liked least, and I remember that the unanimous vote went to young Aussies. They typically refused to join the Commonwealth queue on the grounds that their ancestors had been British; they resented having to carry a passport, and were rude and aggressive.

Some forty years later a group of us met up again and the same discussion took place. Same result, and unanimous again.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Helen
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 05:30 PM

Thanks for that, Rusty Dobro. LOL. We're not all like that, though.

Did you get a laugh out of The Adventures of Barry McKenzie, back in the day, or did it ring too horribly true to be funny? At least we can laugh at ourselves, and Dame Edna Everage/Les Paterson (Barry Humphries) is one of our harshest - and funniest - critics.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 06:24 PM

Complete thread drift (I'm always the worst offender) but I'm currently re-reading a book called 'Let's Talk Strine' a sort of dictionary of the Australian accent. It's very funny.

Some examples:-

Dismal Guernsey (which was introduced in 1966)
Terror Souse (a modest dwelling)
Aorta (as in "Aorta mica Laura genst it'")
Gunga Din (I gunga din, the door slokt)
Rye-Wye (where trines run)

Australians seem to me to be good-humoured and fuss-free, always ready to laugh at themselves and with a good dose of a rather endearing humility.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Helen
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 06:29 PM

Hey Senoufou, that is a funny book. I read it when I was at school. Sometimes the only way I could figure out what the expression means was to read it aloud a few times, even though I speak the language.

The Aorta expression is very common. Everywhere, perhaps.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: rich-joy
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 06:36 PM

My partner and I arrived in England by boat, in the 70s, but via backpacking overland from Australia, having tried hard to avoid other young Aussies, LOL!

However, it seems to me that whatever the country, "Team Sports" ironically often attract packs of rabid, tribal, (mostly male) followers of the arsehole variety (British Football springs to mind), and yes, sometimes within the Team itself (Aussie Thugby anyone?!).

But of course that's just my observation from the outside, eh!

R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: rich-joy
Date: 02 Apr 18 - 07:58 PM

My last post (6:36pm) was, of course, a reply to Rusty Dobro's!

Backwardsman (11:38am), you may have a point.
Older Aussies (Crikey! As a Pensioner, I am now classed as one. OMG!), like to blame America for most of our perceived problems and faults.

But I guess the world has changed everywhere, particularly since the end of WW2 (which, as we all know, was won on behalf of the Free World by the glorious United States .... er, wasn't it??!)

That thought brings a tear to the eye of this Aussie Cry Baby (just to get the thread back on track!!)

R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 02:41 AM

"Backwardsman 11:38am), you may have a point."

No need for insults, Rich-Joy. Some of us are trying to keep this discussion friendly.
I haven't twisted your handle for piss-taking purposes. Please don't twist mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 03:14 AM

Helen, I do the same. I read the words aloud and all is revealed.
I must be a bit dim, because it was only yesterday I realised that even the name of the 'author' is a spoof. It's Affbeck Lauder. (alphabetical order) I've assumed for years it's a real name!

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 05:18 AM

its a load of rubbish.

it would liven up the game no end if everybody could do what they wanted. the bowler could have a choice of balls and the batsman wouldn't know which one was going to come wizzing at him.

lets face its a lot better when someone like Shane Warne is playing and no one really knows what the ball is going to do.. And the thing is, very few people have that level of skill. So why not, allow ball tampering etc, strange shaped balls - and then bowlers of more moderate skills could produce Shane Warne type bowling?

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 05:24 AM

I'd disagree of course but it's certainly an interesting and amusing theory, al.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 05:25 AM

Al....

When a ball from a slow/medium bowler hits a batsman, there's little or no damage done, the batsman gives the spot a rub and carries on.

When a ball from a pace attack bowler hits a batsman, the batsman may suffer serious injury, or may even die. It's happened.

That's why not.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 05:32 AM

Oh, and while there would be several to choose from, thinking back to when I first took an interested in test cricket. Can I please have the ball that would make me bowl like Michael Holding?

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 05:54 AM

Had missed Backwoodsman's serious post in between mine. A ball at 90+mph bouncing randomly would not be funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Helen
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 06:23 AM

Backwoodsman, I'd be surprised if rich-joy intended to twist your name. I expect it was just an unfortunate typo, judging by the nature of his accompanying comment which seemed to agree with your observations.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 06:33 AM

'Did you get a laugh out of The Adventures of Barry McKenzie, back in the day, or did it ring too horribly true to be funny? At least we can laugh at ourselves, and Dame Edna Everage/Les Paterson (Barry Humphries) is one of our harshest - and funniest - critics.'


Yes indeed, Helen, I loved Barry McKenzie and Dame Edna, and especially Sir Les in his truly outrageous days. I practically memorised 'Let Stalk Strine', 'The Castle' is one of my favourite films, and I even had an Aussie air-hostess girlfriend while I was at Heathrow.

Two little puzzles remain, though. If Australian culture is so vibrant, how come the kids in 'Home and Away' talk like Californians with a different accent? Just try mentally transposing - it works about 90% of the time (though the disadvantage is that you have to watch the programme to try this.)

Secondly, given that the Australian landscape is so inhospitable that you can only live round the edges, floods and wild-fires seem to be common, the beer is awful and the wildlife includes a high proportion of the most dangerous creatures in the world, how come you call yourselves 'the lucky country'?

Just wondering - my admiration for the nation that gave the world the circular clothes line remains undimmed.

Subject: RE: BS: Another Aussie cry baby
From: rich-joy
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 06:56 AM

I offer you a sincere apology, Backwoodsman (2:41am), for any insult that I've inadvertently given you in this thread.
It's never been my intention to denigrate you, or any other 'Catter, (though I confess I was often sorely tempted by Martin Gibson and Clinton Hammond, back-in-the-day!)
and the fact that I now seem to have done so, to you, means that I'll probably slink back to the safety of only writing about MUSIC in the threads Above the Line.
Yes, I'm a wimp, but I've noticed that it's all too easy to accidentally upset folks Below the Line, not to mention all the "on purpose" stuff that actually makes me cringe .......
and Heck! I don't even like Cricket!   

R-J (= both parts of my real name, BtW)