No More SorchaBows....

Subject: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:49 PM

Well, the US Postal Service and Denver Airport managed to smash them both to smithereens......Postmistress was quite cooperative and will do her best to help me get full replacement costs on them. I just sat there and bawled....Thank you, Republic Airlines......

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:53 PM

How do you package them for shipping, Sorcha?
The ones we've received from Southwest Strings, come in bow cases. We got three bows to look at, and sent back the two we didn't want - everything worked very smoothly. I think we shipped them UPS.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:54 PM

Sorcha Bows???

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Cruiser
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:57 PM

Were they Pernambuco?!

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:52 PM

That's a Real Sod Sorcha !

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:22 PM

Yes...Pernambuco, wrapped in bubble wrap, then inside 1/2" or so thick cardboard tube.....I've shipped bows all over the country in this tube, loaned for other people to use...never had a problem.

It went thru Denver Airport....looks like either a fork lift ran over it or it got caught in a conveyer belt.....NEXT time (after I work up my courage) it will be a STEEL bow case sent by either FedEx or UPS. The gubmint has handled my LAST vauable property.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:31 PM

One assumes these are fiddle bows????

What does the government have to do with Denver Airport?   Nothing....

Ummmm.... There's a place where one can buy bulk guitar strings.... if you buy enough of them, they throw in a rigi9t plastic tube with a carry strap attached.... I wonder if maybe you could approach them, buy a tube or 3.... Then ship the bows in those, providing pre-paid postage so that the recipian could ship the empty tube back to you?????   

No pic., but url....
http://www.stringthis.com/ststtu.html

Or how about this? Make your own tube out of PVC pipe fittings.... include return shipping or, tack the cost of the PVC onto the price of the bow????

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:33 PM

Yes.....violin bows.....Well, it WAS 1st class......gets put on an AIRPLANE to fly to Maryland.......sheesh. I'm not sure even PVC would have held up to this.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:44 PM

Then it's not likely to happen again is it? Hardly a reason to over-react in such a manner....

Accidents happen.... and nothing is gonna be proof against all of them.....

I'm TOLD by the girl who loaned me the fiddle I have that the bow I have sucks.... how would I know the difference???

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:45 PM

By getting someone who KNOWS to play with it.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:46 PM

The Denver airport almost didn't open because the super-complex luggage conveyer system kept sputtering and dumping luggage all over the place. Who's to say it is close to ok even now?

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:49 PM

Somoen who KNOWS has already TOLD me.... I want to know how to KNOW for myself....

Don't GIVE me a fish, Sorch.....

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: GUEST,LilyFestre
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:52 PM

Hey Sorcha,

    My husband builds bamboo fly rods and ships them in either a steel tube (on request) or a PVC pipe, wrapped in tons of bubble wrap and sealed ends...never had a problem with the rods getting broken. And of course, ALWAYS insure such packages!

Good luck!

Michelle

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:57 PM

OK...give me a bit, CH

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 03:57 PM

No rush, sorch...

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:04 PM

PM sent...this is a PS.....what does it weigh? I prefer the heaviest bow I can find....almost as much weight as a viola bow, but that is personal preference.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:07 PM

Oh yes.....the 'camber'.....bow should have a slight 'arc' towards the hair......too little and you have no action, too much, and you can't get far enough from the hair to get a good bite on the strings....

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:08 PM

What does is weight? I donno... I could probably throw it a country mile....

I have nothing to compare it to.....

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:13 PM

Sorry the news wasn't better Sorcha. I'd hoped for your sake they had exagerated the damage. And I hope they compensate fully after all you packed them properly they are at fault.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:19 PM

You need a post office scale to weigh it on.....grams prob.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:38 PM

CH....feel free to post the PM if you think it will help anyone. Did they help YOU?

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:44 PM

All information is helpful.. I'm just not sure I have much in the way of context to put it in yet....

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:48 PM

OK....

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 06:34 PM

CH-

Make a trip to a violin shop where you can try out different bows, that's the only way you are going to be able to feel the differences for yourself and find out what YOUR preferences are. The better shops will let you take 3 or 4 bows home with you to play at your leisure and comfort...then you return them and buy one if you wish, if not, you've gained some insight into bows. :)

Michelle

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 06:51 PM

We've had reasonably good luck with most of the mainline shippers, but there are some differences we've noted. None of them can guaranteed that there will never be any shipping damage or loss; so insurance of course is recommended on high value and/or fragile stuff.

Both FedEx and UPS have their own air fleets, so in most cases when you ship with one of them it at least doesn't get mixed in with "passenger luggage" of unknown kinds. In most cases, nothing in a UPS or FedEx shipment should EVER be handled by anyone other than their own employees. (There are of course exceptions.)

USPS in some areas does have enough traffic to charter dedicated planes, but in places where the amounts being shipped are smaller, their shipments may be just in space available on scheduled airlines, and may be handled - moved in containers through loading areas - by persons employed by the sched airlines or by the airports. Generalizations are dangerous, and usually unfair, but I'll risk saying:

"I have less faith in the benefit package that airline/airport employees receive than in what the dedicated UPS and FedEx folk are offered to purchase their conscientious performance."

In any normal operations, one would expect the shipping agent, whether FedEx, UPS, or USPS to "containerize" so that there would NEVER be a reason for an individual item to be moved on one of the "luggage conveyors" that are the abominable curse of travelers. In order to damage an item in a shipment, they'd have to crush a whole container - which is not impossible, but probably fairly rare.

We've had a very few minor "missed delivery dates" with UPS, but not enough to say it's a general problem. We usually use FedEx for small packages where assured on-time delivery is needed; but rates favor UPS for anything bulky or heavier than a small book so we'll use them and allow for an extra day or two. We've sent very little USPS, so I "don't have much of an impression" (note - read both ways?) on them.

The only absolute guaranties I can offer, based on experience are:

1. Marking something "FRAGILE" doubles the odds it will be crushed, mangled, bent, shattered, and/or polluted with strange smelling but unidentifiable "foreign materials."

2. Marking something "SPECIAL HANDLING" absolutely assures that the shipment will not arrive at the intended destination. It may be "found" elsewhere later(?) but delays are assured.

3. Marking something "DO NOT BEND" is fairly certain to result in received the item folded in half.

The "safest" shipment, if there can be said to be one, is packaged to look like every other package, with clear labels, but with absolutely NO DISTINGUISHING MARKINGS that might attract special attention from anyone handling it. The packaging must, of course, be capable of protecting the contents from "normal handling," which can be pretty rugged.

We all hope of course that you'll get a fair monetary compensation for the lost bows. I don't think they're likely to offer anything in the way of "punitive damages for pain and suffering," so we'll all chip in lots of sympathy - mine is on the way.

John

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 07:05 PM

LOL...thanks John
And Linn

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 08:22 PM

I will never use UPS again - they damage stuff shipped from US. Never had a problem with USPS - which goes to Aust Post here.

A piano accordion had been drop kicked so hard that the box was crushed - and the bass buttons had been forced by the impact to jam together.

The guy refused to accept that even the box had been damaged - refused to pay insurance to get it fixed - fortunately not a major hassle.

They don't even have an office in Queensland - all done from Sydney -then private contractors to Brisbane.

fedex probably has no agent here either.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 08:32 PM

I will NEVER do business with FedEx again. Whenever things are shipped to us FedEx, they have to call for directions...funny how the USPS finds us daily and how UPS never has a problem. In addition to that, one time the FedEx truck pulled down our driveway and while turning around (I saw the entire thing from the kitchen window) tipped over our dumpster and ran over my mountain bike. Trash was all over the yard and my new bike was wrecked. After much debate, they fixed the bike and sent someone over to pick up the trash (a few days later) but we had picked it up the day it happened, DUH. Then yet ANOTHER time, they had my diabetic supplies but couldn't find the house so they were going to wait until Monday...this was Friday night. I called and explained that it was medical and the lady fussed with me so much that I told her I'd be happy to come pick up my package (50+ miles away) but that she should know that she would be dealing with a diabetic with levels running in the 350+ zone and I likely wouldn't be pleasant. She didn't say anything so I said goodnight and figured I'd be out of luck until Monday. My husband and I went out for dinner and came home to find my package waiting on the porch...gee...they found the house after all! Nope, no FedEx for us.

Michelle

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 08:35 PM

So, WHAT do I DO?????? Other than learn to re hair bows myself????

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 09:12 PM

I just remembered I had this. It seems to be a standard bow case. Found it on a walk last fall on someone's pile of trash. Would it be of any use? It seems in good shape, top is padded....

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: open mike
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 09:20 PM

probably for pool cue or que...
but looks like it might work well for bow.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 09:58 PM

no...it's way too short for pool cue....it's bow sized.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Bert
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 01:19 AM

I would go with the steel tube and pack it diagonally in a suitcase or cardboard box with loads of packing.

Get a length of steel pipe with threaded ends and buy a screw on cap for each end.

Any odd shape is likely to confuse baggage handling equipment which is designed mainly for suitcases.

Baggage handling conveyor design presents several serious problems to the designer. Image a small airport with just twenty gates. Your bag arrives at one gate and has to be transferred to another. This involves being shipped to a central conveyor matrix which has to change the bag to the conveyor going to the other gate.

To do this they have a device, euphemistically called a pusher, which hits the bag with a heavy chunk of steel and sends it flying onto the next conveyor. This has to happen very quickly because it has to get out of the way of the next bag coming along the conveyor.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:41 AM

Take it from the voice of experience, Bill D's mystery case is the standard (probably fairly cheap(?)) carry-case sold for jointed pool/billiard cues.

The "slant" of the divider is so that the big end of the butt half can go on one end, while the mid-diameter small end of the butt and big end of the tip (both the same diameter) splits the middle at the other end, with the small tip back up by the big butt. With the cue unscrewed at the joint in the middle, the case leaves just enough room at one end for a chalk cube, or sometimes two.

I have used one as a make-shift case for a viola bow, but it's not a particularly good fit on much of anything musical.

If it's in good shape, last time I looked the going rate for a new case of the type was about $18 (US) - probably higher by now. If it's one of the "extra sturdy" one might get to around $35 for something similar, so it was a bargain at the price paid. Learning to play the game so as to have a personal use for it could be "expensive" if one goes to the wrong parlor...

John

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:50 AM

Bert's got the right idea about shapes but there's a few other comments I could make, even taking into account his "Image a small airport with just twenty gates." Sigh. My local airport has only one gate and no conveyors, but I do have to send fragile things both interstate and internationally.

Australia Post sells a series of packaging shapes, one of which is a long cylinder best used for rolled maps. I use a length of PVC drain pipe (100 mm 'sewer' or 90mm 'grey water') for long & narrow fragiles (similar to bows), as these sizes have screw-on end caps with O-rings that properly seal the contents. On the only occasion I've had to send something fragile that was thin but wide in the other two dimensions (Aboriginal bark paintings) I got a couple of bakers' delivery breadcrates (lightweight but strong and with limited flexibility) and cut their sides down. Using some fencing wire as hinges (and fastening clips) for the two 'clamshells' the whole shebang worked a treat. Perhaps its daggyness protected it from the abuse usually directed at the unusual but it seemed to cope with conveyor belts rather well, as it was similar in size and shape to other baggage. And it only cost me some elbow grease. You could easily fir the 90mm PVC pipe into such a contraption.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 03:22 AM

On surface a steel pipe sounds like a good idea, however my fiddle bow will not fit into a 1" diameter hole, so at least a 1-1/4 ID pipe would be needed. That's not commonly available in my area, so it would probably be a special order. Minimum wall thickness for common pipe would be very close to 1/8." My bow would need a 30" long pipe to allow any end padding.

That's about 16 cubic inches of steel, or about 5 pounds. Screw on end caps will add another half pound for two caps in common style.

If you took the "easy out" and used the more common 1.5" pipe, the available wall thickness for what's easy to get increases slightly; but calculating at the same 1/8" thick, your pipe is now 9.5 pounds (with end caps) all by itself.

Using the USPS Rate Calculator:

From my middle of the US location in Kansas, to New York or to Los Angeles, the lighter 5.5 pound pipe would mean paying about $32 postage for "Express" delivery which is the closest one can get to "First Class Mail" for an item of this size. Parcel Post, which estimates 6 days in transit is about the cheapest thing available from USPS, at just over $10 just for the pipe. The larger pipe would be about $40 Express, and just over $13 for the slow parcel post.

There might be an additional problem with something looking like a steel pipe when they xray to check for "suspicious packages" - especially if "hidden" inside a suitcase as has been suggested.

(Postal inspectors have virtually no sense of humor.)

John

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 12:40 PM

"it's way too short for pool cue..."
Pool cues come apart in the middle.......

" Get a length of steel pipe with threaded ends and buy a screw on cap for each end."
So it looks like a big pipe-bomb... ya... that'll be easy to ship... especially in todays world.... *rollseyes*

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 06:57 PM

Don't tell, but I found a Find at the music store in Cheyenne today....OLD permambuco bow with great action, on consign for only $100! I reserved it!!!! A loaner if nothing else...

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: jeffp
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 07:42 PM

Last year I bought a fishing rod kit. The rod blank came in a length of PVC pipe just longer than the blank. The USPS delivered it in perfect condition.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 07:48 PM

I'm going to the lumberyard tomorrow....

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: open mike
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 09:22 PM

are these bows coming to you or going from you, Sorcha??!!
good luck...

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 10:52 PM

I had the same thought Clinton did--mailing steel pipes with the ends sealed isn't likely to inspire confidence in any shipper who has to handle it.

SRS

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 11:12 PM

My American uncle, back in the 50s, had a tubular aluminium fishing rod carry case - he left it here when he went back - it's in my shed. Six feet long.

Are such things still available?

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Bert
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 11:33 PM

I guess you've never made a pipe bomb Clinton.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 11:45 PM

Empty vessels make most noise, Bert...

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 11:54 PM

Steel pipe = "pipe bomb" was my first thought too but I let it go. Given JohnInKansas' details of weights I thought I'd measure up a "PVC pipe" model that already has airline stickers on it and no damage.

It's 850mm (33.5", to you imperial measure users) long, 90mm (3.5") wide and, with a foam plug in it left over from whatever was last transported in it, weighs just under 800grams (1.76 lb); one of its ends is permanently sealed and the other end has a threaded cap. I think this is large enough for most bows but, if I were trying to protect a fiddle bow I'd probably wrap the bow in polyethylene packing (like museums and some computer screen manufacturers use) to make a snug fit inside a length of 38mm (1.5") PVC conduit and put that inside the 90mm PVC pipe with the usual foam packing between the two pipes. Gaffer tape would prevent the threaded cap from undoing but allow inspection.

I don't know the USPS rates (too lazy to check out JohnInKansas' clicky) but I reckon it'd cost less than anything with metal pipes and not arouse as much suspicion. A lot more transparent to X-rays, too.

Cheers, Rowan.

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Bert
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 12:10 AM

I really don't know if PVC pipe would survive the treatment that Sorcha describes.

An alternative would be to buy a suitcase of suitable size (one of those plastic ones with rounded corners) They only cost a dollar or two at thrift stores
get a couple of cans of urethane foam
spray the bottom of the case and cover it with polythene film
press the bows into the film just a little while the foam is still wet
cover again with another sheet of polythene
spray on more foam and close the lid

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:08 AM

I'll figure out something....

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: Bert
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:30 AM

Next time Sorkieluv, just drop by with your bows and I'll make you a case that will survive baggage handling

Subject: RE: No More SorchaBows....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 08:42 AM

You know Bert, I like that way of packing it in foam, but... where do you find the explosives monkey to unpack it?