BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:31 AM

It should be pointed out, again, that ACORN itself turned over to authorities any employees who were engaging in illegal practices.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:46 AM

"...ACORN itself turned over to authorities any employees who were engaging in illegal practices." ~ Carol C

Oh, crap. Every place that ACORN had a major presence, the same exact fraud occurred.

Clark County (Las Vegas), Nevada is still trying to figure out what happened in last year's election. Estimates that about half of all the voter submissions by ACORN were blatant fraud. Others are suspect but are harder to prove. Illegal aliens are a major part of this organized, systematic assault on our right to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:47 AM

The organization mobilized a get-out-the-vote effort to support Obama's presidential bid last year, but it was tainted when nearly a third of the 1.3 million voters the group registered were rejected.

Last week, authorities in Miami announced the arrests of 11 former registration canvassers on allegations that they had submitted nearly 200 falsified forms.


Sawzaw, when you post this kind of nonsense you should at least post a citation to the yellow journalism where you found it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:54 AM

On Weekend Edition Scott Simon and Juan Williams discussed this event. Williams repeated the statement that those folks caught on film helping criminals were "indefensible." But the Philadelphia workers who called the police on the pair weren't added to the smear, and the many other offices that didn't bite weren't reported.

link.

Follow the money. The sponsorship of the "investigation" must be examined. "These people are just setting folks up and trying to embarrass them for political reasons." You got that right, Juan.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 12:20 PM

The fraudulent registrations never made it past ACORN's screening process. They flagged all of the questionable registrations and handed them over to the authorities as they were required to do by law. There was never any danger that the fraudulent registrations would result in someone voting illegally, and therefore there was never any assault on anyone's right to vote. That's just Republican smear mongering, and a part of the pattern of Republican efforts to disenfranchise large numbers of voters, which is itself a form of election fraud.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 12:42 PM

LOL

I just realized why the Republicans have kicked their efforts against ACORN into high gear. They've narrowed down their voter base so much through pandering to their lunatic fringe that they will have to disenfranchise a huge percentage of voters in order to get any of their people elected in 2010. LOL... I think I smell desperation.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: DougR
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:01 PM

It will be interesting to see, Carol, if you detect the same odor after the 2010 congressional elections.

It's interesting to see how many folks, even after viewing the video, which has been run numerous times still support ACORN. (Obviously the video was doctored. Right.) If, however, they were doctored, why did ACORN fire the employees that appeared on them? Surely and organization at upright at ACORN would have supported them, not fired them.

Anyone that does not fear that their television screen will be permanently tainted by tuning in to Fox News tomorrow can see the president of ACORN interviewed on that network by Chris Wallace.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:08 PM

If the tapes were doctored, the ACORN people still would have a good reason to fire the employees in question, as I said before, because the employees were giving advice on how to falsify information. What they are saying was doctored is the claim that the workers were told that the man and woman were a prostitute and pimp and that they were going to start a child sex ring. I will have to go back and watch the video again to see what I think of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:10 PM

However, that one can be flipped. It's interesting to see, considering how may times FOX News has been caught lying and propagandizing, how many people still support that organization.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:32 PM

...from a press release by ACORN:

"ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) is the largest grassroots community organization in the United States, comprised of over 450,000 member families organized into 1000+ neighborhood chapters in over 100 cities across the country. The mission of ACORN is to empower low and moderate-income people..."

"The majority of ACORN registrants are low-income, about 75% are African-American, 25% are Latino and 50% are under 30 years old."

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 03:35 PM

Is there a point to that last post?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

Ok, I watched it again. I don't see that video being able to hold up in a court of law. There's tons of edits, and we never actually see the "pimp" or the "prostitute" say what we are hearing. There's no way to know if they actually said those things or if they were overdubbed. Neither of the ACORN employees ever use the words "pimp" or "prostitute" except for one time where you can barely here it, and that one sounds like it could have been overdubbed.

I am definitely in favor of an investigation. But I don't think it's right to automatically accept the word of known liars (FOX News) before an investigation is conducted.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:21 PM

The only people talking about going to court is ACORN itself. I think the other folks have done all they intend on doing with it.   .

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:42 PM

Seems like if ACORN was as guilty as people are saying, they wouldn't be the ones wanting to go to court. If those ACORN workers did what they are accused of doing, they should be prosecuted. Maybe nobody else wants to go to court because they don't have a leg to stand on.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:47 PM

I hope the "Truth" about ACORN is spread. Followed by the truth about FOX and the people behind this 'entrapment' procedure.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:49 PM

"ACORN...is the largest grassroots community organization in the United States, comprised of over 450,000 member families..." ~ their press release

If we auuume that means that ACORN has 450,000 individual working for it, well, let's "do the math".

ACORN is said to have received $54 million federal (taxpayer) dollars since 1994. Divide among 450,000 workers, that is just $8 dollars per worker per year!.

Again, one investigative reporter claims that over 8 billion in federal money is allotted to the 300 groups afilliated with ACORN. That is just in next years budget.

The numbers are bogus. We need a special investigator appointed pronto.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:52 PM

Well, pdq, a special investigator would probably satisy you concerns and Peace's concerns as well.

                What do you think Congress should do about funding in the meantime?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 07:56 PM

"The numbers are bogus. We need a special investigator appointed pronto."

I loved seeing that. It's a clear indication that people don't think they'll receive fairness from run-of-the-mill investigators. The investigators have to be special. (Not yankin' yer chain, pdq. I have thought that for years. I think people of varying degrees of politicaltudinousness don't trust their governments to do what's right as opposed to what's expedient.)

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 08:09 PM

All I know is that Barack Obama worked as a lawyer for ACORN/Project Vote for 7 months and he surely didn't settle for $8 per year. Not even $8 per hour. Can we guess it was closer to $200 per hour.

This administration has a conflict of interest "big time" and the insevtigator must be an outsider to avoid the obvious witewash.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 08:11 PM

Yeah. Ten to one s/he'll have a line of lobbyists a mile long waiting to speak and see the error of her or his ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 09:07 PM

LOL

We need to finish investigating the Cheney administration before we start pouring taxpayer resources into investigating Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 09:08 PM

Hear, hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 10:18 PM

Except Cheney is out of office and can't do any more damage. It seems to me it would be more effective to look to the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:43 PM

He can still do a ton of damage by setting a precedent. That would be bad for the future. So for the sake of the future, we should make sure nobody gets away with anything criminal.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:08 AM

What???

Corruption in the liberal ranks???

Why is everyone running so fast to defend when what you need to be doing is following congress and washing your hands of the whole foul mess?

At least congress knows when it's time to mop up the floor....


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:39 AM

We know better than to trust liars. Better to wait until there's been some kind of due process before making a judgment. I know that's difficult for people with no ethics to understand, but it is the American way.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:32 AM

Well then just go ahead and stand idly by while the ship is going down. In the end, when the dust has settled, ACORN and anyone still supporting or at least associated with will have lost any and all credibility that they had.

And about congress....even a dog knows when not to fight...

...and for me? ....That's giving THIS congress way too much credit


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:22 PM

Maybe. And then again, maybe not.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:22 PM

Where is the reality in going after Fox News? They don't take federal money, they aren't hiding who they are and what they stand for, so what would one use to launch an attack?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 02:13 PM

CarolC,

"Better to wait until there's been some kind of due process before making a judgment."


So you will wait until there is some due process before your statements about Fox et al???

Or do you have two sets of rules, one for those you syupport, and a different set for those you differ with?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 04:07 PM

There's already been plenty of due process for FOX. There's all kinds of studies showing that a huge percentage of the things FOX says are lies. That's very easily documentable, and it has been documented.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 05:55 PM

Apparently nothing Fox News has said has proven to be actionable, or it seems like somebody would be going after them.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

Gentlemen,

YOU know FOX is not a trust-worthy station. Pretending you don't is beneath you. Carol has demonstrated often in the past that FOX lies. Hell, would YOU take FOX at its word? Asking Carol to document every-effin'-thing is an attempt to waste her time.

It's entirely possible that ACORN needs to have its pee-pee slapped, big time. It's also entirely possible that so does FOX. What they did and the method by which they went about it would have been seen as entrapment had it been done by the cops. FOX use shit disturbing as a means to 'create' news. That isn't how news should be reported.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:33 PM

Well, I certainly don't take FOX at its word, but I have trouble buying into a number of other news outlets as well. It seems to me like, in order to get to the truth anymore one has to sort through several sources and then make up his/her own mind.

                   Personally, I think ACORN just tried to get into too many things and simply didn't have enough trained management staff to handle it all. The people on the tape that FOX presented didn't look like professional managarial types to me.
                   I think if ACORN would just simply concentrate on low income housing they could help a lot of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:44 PM

Has someone suggested that some kind of legal action be taken against FOX?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:46 PM

Oops. Forgot about the law suit. Well, that's certainly a form of due process, and if ACORN decides to sue, FOX will have their day in court. Sounds fair to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:46 PM

Obama is appearing on all sorts of network programs this week, everyone but FOX. He knows a landmine when he sees it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 08:06 AM

"...if ACORN decides to sue, FOX will have their day in court."

             It sounds to me like they've decided not to sue. I think it would be embarrassing for ACORN if they did.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 08:30 AM

Source for that, please?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 10:42 AM

I think her name is Bertha Lewis. She is making the talk show rounds and seems to be the spokes-person for ACORN. I saw her on a show yesterday--one of the general news programs--and she indicated that they were more concerned about getting their own house in order than going after the journalists who originally set this whole thing up.

               Another thing to consider--when I saw these people on Hannity--the case was made that these were free-lance journalists who had made this footage and were now offering it on the open market. Of course, Fox snapped it up. If that's the case, and in view of the fact that the footage has since been shown on other outlets, one would have to link the journalist to Fox News before a suit could really go too far--in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:17 PM

While no paper work was generated by the fake pimp's request for information the perception that the 2 ACORN employees are well educated cons who routinely work the system for common street crime in the ghettos is weak.

On the other hand when ever you see a group of late middle aged men in $1000 suits meeting miday at a hotel - no good will come of that.
Odds are they are fixing prices internationally for food ingredients.
OR discussing new banking fees to defraud and bilk customers.
OR hiring young folks to do video stings on their behalf.

I saw the FIRST appearence on TV of the young lady who claimed this was all her idea. WShe had not yet refined her presentation.
WHen asked "How did you come up with this idea?"
She said " I saw these ACORN volunteers on the street and I said to myself, I DOn't Like THose PeoPle!, so I called my friend who did video work..."


Hmm

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:18 PM

A better place for the video would have been the United States Department of Justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:57 PM

"Another thing to consider--when I saw these people on Hannity--the case was made that these were free-lance journalists who had made this footage and were now offering it on the open market. Of course, Fox snapped it up."

I don't doubt that for a second. They seem to pander to their audience. Sleazy is as sleazy does.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: DougR
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 05:23 PM

Right. Prosecute the messenger (Fox News), and praise the accused.

And if, as someone pointed out, there is a source that proves Fox News lied about a news story, I'd certainly like to know what it is.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 09:41 PM

....if there is a source that proves Fox News lied about a news story, I'd certainly like to know what it is.

And the point in providing you with the many proofs and sources would be what, exactly, Douggie?

You wouldn't recognize a fact or proof if either, or both, bit you on the ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 08:22 AM

Unfortunately, the story about ACORN's illegal alien home loan racket doesn't seem to be getting much traction in the mainstream media. If Fox News picks up the story, it'll be front a front page story everywhere. So it seems to me like Fox News is good for something.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 09:10 AM

Yup. If ya play with as turd, you'll get beshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 03:03 PM

Maybe they're not covering any illegal alien home loan racket because there isn't one.

I just watched Bertha Lewis being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer. She said ACORN is proceeding with the law suits.

The people who made the videos were caught in quite a few lies about their experiences at various ACORN offices. They stated many times that they were never denied help (while posing as a pimp and a prostitute) in any of the ACORN offices they visited. FOX News assisted them in making this claim. This page has a police report that was filed after ACORN workers refused to assist the video makers because they were asking suspicious questions. This also happened at other ACORN offices...

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170031

Here is a video of an ACORN worker who filed a police report. She says the people were not dressed outrageously, and they did not present themselves as a pimp or a prostitute. She says the man was not dressed as he appears in the videos that are being shown on FOX. And since we never see him dressed that way while actually talking to the ACORN worker in the videos, we can assume that he wasn't dressed that way when he was talking with them, either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjyIiDUyoY&feature=player_embedded

So we have proof that the makers of the video have lied quite a few times, including on FOX News, and that they misrepresented in the videos what actually happened during the making of the videos. We have overwhelming proof that these people, 1. have an agenda to discredit ACORN, and 2. they have used lies and dishonest tactics to do it, and 3. their representation of ACORN and its workers is a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 03:44 PM

This page shows how FOX News presented a bogus story as fact. They never bothered to fact check it to make sure it was true. It wouldn't have been difficult to fact check it (something any legitimate journalistic enterprise would do, but propaganda outlets would not). All they would have had to do would be to ask the police. They also did not contact the ACORN employee in question to get any comments from her...

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909160023


Here's a couple of rather striking examples of FOX News' lies. These are graphic examples. They take photographs of people they want to present in a bad light, and they graphically alter the photographs to make the people look bad, scary, and stupid. In this one, they moved his hairline down about an inch, made his face a lot smaller and his ears bigger, made his nose a lot wider and his chin freakily big and wide. They also yellowed his teeth, added shadows to his cheek lines (making his cheeks look much more puffy) and darkened the area around his eyes to make them look sunken in...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/FNCControversy_Steinburg.png

In this one, they made his forehead look like it was at least a couple of inches taller than it was, they moved his hairline back at least a couple of inches also, they yellowed his teeth, and put really big, dark, circles under and around his eyes...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/FNCControversy_Redicliffe.png


On September, 18, FOX News took out full page ads in the Washington Post and New York Post claiming that ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, and CNN did not cover the big teabagger rally in Washington a couple of weeks ago. This is easily disproven since lots of people actually watched the coverage of the rally on those networks, and since there is still plenty of footage from them at the rally. In fact, the photograph FOX uses in its ad actually came from the CNN broadcast coverage (FOX News must really believe their viewers are stupid... and maybe they have good reason to believe that).


A study done in 2003 by the Academy of Political Science (reported in their Political Science Quarterly Volume 118, Number 4, Winter 2003-2004), examined the frequency of misperceptions about certain facts according to which "news" outlet was being viewed. All of them showed some discrepancy with the facts, but FOX was by far the worst...

Frequency of misperceptions per respondent: WMD found, evidence of al Qaeda link, and world majority support for the war...

Viewers of FOX, CBS, ABC, CNN, NBC, Print Media, NPR/PBS, one or more misperception -

FOX: 80%
CBS: 71%
ABC: 61%
CNN: 55%
NBC: 55%
Print Media: 47%
NPR/PBS: 23%

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 04:08 PM

"The people who made the videos were caught in quite a few lies about their experiences at various ACORN offices."

             Of course, everything they did was fictitious, but I don't see how it will go anywhere in court.