BS: American Presidential race 2024

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 24 - 06:16 AM

I know we’re not supposed to use the ‘N’ word (no, not that ‘n’ word!) but, the more I read and hear, the more I’m reminded of 1930s Germany.

It’s terrifying.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 24 - 06:45 PM

Trump's puppets on the Sunday morning news shows tried to blame Biden and Harris - saying that they'd been invited to the family event at the cemetery also, and if they'd done their nation proud and attended this wouldn't have happened. You know how many events happen in the nation every day that they probably have to consider? And this is a tiny family thing. Trump decided to take advantage of it and his team still have political ads using the photos and video. They accuse Biden of sitting at the beach and Harris of just sitting in her mansion four miles away.

When they have no good policies or answers, they start name calling and slinging mud. That has been the pattern all along. They own that Arlington Cemetery debacle; I just hope the Army employee who they pushed aside stays out of harm's way as far as stalking and doxing.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 02 Sep 24 - 01:12 PM

SRS I believe that the fear of repercussions by the Trump mob is probably why she chose not to press charges. Because, after seeing the video, what happened to her absolutely fit the legal definition of assault.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 24 - 02:24 PM

Did you find a place to view that video? I haven't seen it appear anywhere. I agree - she is probably terrified of being the center of the Trump mob's attention. In this CNN report they read the statement released by the Army, supporting their employee at the event (while not mentioning Trump by name - but the meaning is clear.)

Also, a follow-up to the smear by Senator Cotton on Sunday, Biden and Harris were not invited to the event that he says they ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 03 Sep 24 - 12:09 PM

I don't know where to view it. It's not on Youtube and what I saw was a very short clip included in a video montage. It's even possible they used a similar clip from a different incident now that I think about it. And speaking of not showing up for commemoration ceremonies, Trump refused to go to the main D-day graveyard in Normandy because he said the dead were a bunch of suckers and losers.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 03 Sep 24 - 02:07 PM

Neil D, I am sure that the reason Trump or his political strategists thought it was a good idea to go to Arlington was to counteract the bad publicity from the suckers and losers comment. Unfortunately it rebounded on him and his campaign. He has a short memory- he spits out commentary and then forgets what he has said almost immediately - and he hopes his potential voters do too.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 03 Sep 24 - 03:40 PM

I check this page with polls fairly often. I posted the link on
Date: 30 Aug 24 - 02:22 PM.

Currently the summary of the polls shows that Trump is 45.4% and Harris is 49.4%, and this has been steady for a few days. Harris overtook Trump on 6 August.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 24 - 08:23 PM

Because of the electoral college and the way it favors smaller states (put in place by the slave-holding state to prevent the rest of the nation from getting rid of their ability to own slaves) the GOP always has an advantage (until we get rid of the electoral college!) so the Democrats have to be several points ahead to pull up even.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 24 - 10:51 PM

A federal judge today again denied the Trump team's request to move the activity on the hush money case to federal court.

From the AP: Federal judge rejects Donald Trump’s request to intervene in wake of hush money conviction

NEW YORK (AP) — A federal judge on Tuesday swiftly rejected Donald Trump’s request to intervene in his New York hush money criminal case, spurning the former president’s attempt at an end-run around the state court where he was convicted and is set to be sentenced in two weeks.

U.S. District Judge Alvin Hellerstein’s ruling — just hours after Trump’s lawyers asked him to weigh the move — upends the Republican presidential nominee’s plan to move the case to federal court so that he could seek to have his conviction overturned in the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court’s presidential immunity ruling.

Hellerstein, echoing his denial of Trump’s pretrial bid to move the case, said the defense failed to meet the high burden of proof for changing jurisdiction and that Trump’s conviction for falsifying business records involved his personal life, not official actions that the Supreme Court ruled are immune from prosecution.

In a four-page ruling, Hellerstein wrote that nothing about the high court’s July 1 ruling affected his previous conclusion that hush money payments at issue in Trump’s case “were private, unofficial acts, outside the bounds of executive authority.” (emphasis mine)

A bit further down in the article is information about the thing that many of us are on the lookout for - statements from the judge in the hush money case:

Merchan is expected to rule soon on two key defense requests: Trump’s call for the judge to delay his Sept. 18 sentencing until after the November election, and his request that the judge overturn his conviction and dismiss the case in the wake of the Supreme Court’s ruling.

Merchan has said he will rule Sept. 16 on Trump’s motion to overturn the verdict. His decision on delaying sentencing has been expected in the coming days.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 04 Sep 24 - 06:13 AM

Anthony Scaramucci says a second Donald Trump presidency would isolate the United States, leave NATO stranded and project 'cruelty'

The article is based on an interview on an Oz ABC TV show called 7.30. Scaramucci expresses a lot of opinions which I won't try to summarise. He also has an opinion on how Kamala Harris could be more successful by being more persuasive [he uses the term "aggressive"] with her political agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Sep 24 - 08:50 AM

Because of the electoral college and the way it favors smaller states (put in place by the slave-holding state to prevent the rest of the nation from getting rid of their ability to own slaves) the GOP always has an advantage

Correct me if I am wrong but surely the slave holding states overwhelmingly supported the Democratic party and the Republicans emerged to combat the spread of slavery into the western territories. If the Southern Democrats put in a system to maintain their advantage, then the Democratic party can't complain if the pendulum has swung the other way towards the GOP.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 24 - 12:28 PM

You would be wrong, because the parties of those names did a reverse-polarity thing back in the years after Lincoln. The party that put in the slave-holding parts of the constitution are now functioning as the GOP.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 04 Sep 24 - 12:49 PM

Any fixed-rule system can be gamed; and if the rules themselves are gamed, however laudable the reason, the system becomes even more fragile. Gödel's Undecidability Theorem doesn't just apply to mathematics (or maths's red-headed step-child, the computer).

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 24 - 02:03 PM

How is the sentencing delay going to affect things? Good or bad!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Sep 24 - 05:25 PM

Damn damn damn. It makes it better for Trump, of course. Merchan really needed to sentence Trump to a prison sentence to make the point that he is a convicted felon.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 24 - 02:57 AM

What are the differences in foreign policies?a question not a statement

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Sep 24 - 06:55 AM

> Merchan really needed to sentence Trump to a prison
> sentence

When I heard about the delay, I had a flashback to when the head of the Wagner group stopped his march on Moscow. One comment at the time was: They've found his grandchildren.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 24 - 12:23 PM

The presidential debate is coming up on Tuesday (Sept. 10), and as this new campaign with Harris replacing Biden is working at breakneck speed to do everything it needs to in the reduced time due to circumstances, the conservative media are howling that Kamala isn't making time for "The Press." They want to pepper her with stupid talking points from Trump to make his campaign ads with. They'll get lots of soundbytes on Tuesday.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 08 Sep 24 - 01:19 PM

I saw something on (Oz) ABC News about Trump's minions fiddling the electoral college system in Georgia. The article hasn't shown up yet on the ABC News site.

Will he get away with this?

I found this article about it:

How Georgia’s pro-Trump election board could help him steal an election

"At a rally in Georgia days before a crucial vote at the state’s election board, Donald Trump praised three of the board’s five members as 'pit bulls fighting for victory'.

“'I don’t know if you’ve heard, but the Georgia State Election Board is in a very positive way,” Trump said in Atlanta on August 3. “They’re on fire. They’re doing a great job.'

"Those members — Rick Jeffares, Janelle King and Janice Johnston — ultimately voted for sweeping rule changes to how counties can certify election rules in a state that the former president lost by narrow margins in 2020, and where he is now criminally charged for his attempts to reverse that loss.

"Election analysts predict the state could come down to even smaller vote margins in November, potentially inviting challenges from Trump-allied groups to do what Trump couldn’t in 2020, thanks to new, potentially illegal rules that could invite partisan investigations. The Democratic Party and a group of Georgia Democrats — with the support of Kamala Harris’s campaign — are now suing over the changes.

“'Everyone who cares about American democracy and who wants to make sure their vote counts should be alarmed,' Georgia Democratic Representative Sam Park told - The Independent."

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 24 - 03:07 PM

Same story was discussed back on 27th of August

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 24 - 11:41 AM

MaJoC I've spent the weekend thinking about what you said about perhaps they "found his grandchildren." I'm sure there is a great deal of that calculation going on behind the scenes. And the court decision is a lot bigger issue than the usual ones around here: I live in a state where in past years people were reluctant to put out Biden signs because of the Trump hooligans who might drive by and decide to shoot the sign, regardless of it being in front of a building permeable to bullets. I've seen a few Harris/Walz signs, and there will soon be a couple set up here. (I live in a "rock house" so maybe as long as they miss the windows we're ok?)

It looks like politics is going to have to settle this once and for all - defeating Trump at the ballot box, regardless of what he says about accepting the results, will end it. (I'd love to see him flee the country after this is all over.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 11:47 AM

Tonight is the big event. I'm wondering what it would look like if I set up the closed captions and mute every time Trump opens his mouth. I can't stand to listen to his voice but the gibberish from his mouth might be . . . instructive.

There is a double-standard at play here. Trump is expected to lie, to talk over the top of Harris, to be a deranged fool. Harris must be perfect in every way.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 12:33 PM

Closed captions and mute - that's a great idea. I can't stand to listen to him either.

I'm hoping, with all fingers and toes crossed, that Harris presents some solid policy statements and really pushes the important policies e.g. economics, abortion and women's issues and rights, etc but also that she wipes the floor with him using her arsenal of prosecutorial skills.

She has been consistently ahead in the polls for most states by a few percentage points but she really needs to push forward at least another few points and hold that position so that she can't be beaten by the electoral college.

[You don't know how polite I have been about the US electoral system, especially the electoral college as opposed to "one person one vote", the lack of compulsory voting, and electing a president instead of voting in a political party by a majority of successful candidates. I could really cut loose on all of that, but I have been restraining myself for the sake of maintaining international relations in Mudcatland. :-) Instead I am projecting good thoughts and lots of hope for this election.]

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 12:47 PM

I agree with most of those topics, Helen. I don't think you'd want the party election of the president here, we don't have the same kind of prime minister setup you do.

Fingers crossed, as you say, and trying not to borrow trouble. The debate will be what it is, and we'll move forward.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 12:56 PM

I have a couple of images in my head of how I hope it plays out: a cat playing cat-and-mouse, letting the mouse think it is getting away and then quietly pouncing to keep playing with it; and what I call sheep-dogging. That is when a person quietly and determinedly rounds up the other person, no fuss, no bother, just pushing him into the sheep pen before he knows what is happening to him.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 06:40 PM

I'll keep an eye on this via MSNBC and see what the liberal inteligencia goddess Rachel Maddow has to say about it.

We're a couple of hours away. Time for dinner, then setting up the TV in the den to watch (or read) the big event.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 24 - 09:47 PM

There should be a drinking game to play with the "debate" this evening but Trump is so predictable we'd all be sloshed.

He's dreadful. Lies lies lies lies, about himself and her. And muting the mics doesn't seem to be working, he's still talking and interrupting the moderators and Harris.

Bleh. I tried turning on the CC setting but it wasn't working on the channels I tested.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 12:59 AM

I haven't watched the debate yet, but I've heard some of the commentary from Oz ABC journalists. I might not manage to watch the whole debate, depending on how sick to my stomach Trump makes me, but I'll give it a go.

However, Taylor Swift has now said she will vote for Harris, and is encouraging her fans to register to vote, while - importantly - not telling them how they should vote.

Taylor Swift endorses Kamala Harris following first presidential debate with Donald Trump

I'm hoping that just motivating her fans to register to vote may sway the election outcome. Encouraging people to vote can only be a good thing, surely, but given that most of Swift's fans are young and female her influence may prove to be important.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 03:49 AM

Kamala Harris has a VERY expressive face, and a million-dollar smile. Although she was not allowed to talk while Trump was talking, her expressions said so much. I'd say her performance during the debate was near-perfect.

Trump just scowled. And babbled. And repeated himself.

I covered my dog's ears when Trump was talking about people in Ohio eating pets. Say, doesn't Vance come from Ohio?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 05:01 AM

I recorded the debate and I'm halfway through watching it. My recorder has a function where I can fast forward by one click and they just speak very fast but they can be understood. It saves me having to listen to Trump turn every single topic of discussion into his badgering about immigration, so even when Kamala Harris directly confronted him about his actions leading to the Capitol riot on Jan 6 he twists his reply into another barb about immigration.

You're right, Joe. Kamala Harris's facial expressions, gestures, bemused looks, and great big open smile are absolutely priceless and so far her comments on abortion and women's right to make their own health decisions, and about Jan 6, and Trump's legal battles have been right on the money.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 09:37 AM

It was educational, the ex-prez informed us that they're executing infants in West Virginia. He's just preaching to his whack job choir with ludicrous statements like that and alienating most rational folks, I would guess.
One obvious takeaway for me was that elevating VP Harris to the top of the ticket was absolutely the right decision, as much as I admire President Biden.
I wish Taylor Swift would have chosen another moment to endorse Harris, it kind of got lost in the post-debate wash and the 911 rememberances.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 10:23 AM

I'm with you, Helen and Gilly. Although I am rather bemused by the idea that people's votes might be influenced by a moderately pretty, moderately-talented singer of moderately interesting pop songs. But hey, anything that buggers-up the Trumper-mob sounds good AFAIC.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 10:38 AM

I'm also not a fan of Swift's music, I suppose she's not trying to appeal to my demographic, but we need to take down that monster by whatever means possible and I'm grateful to her.
Btw, she signed her eloquent endorsement tweet, "Childless Cat Lady".

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 01:06 PM

I'll have to disagree with the two of you. Just after the debate had ended Swift launched her endorsement, and will have caught the attention of millions of young fans and their parents. I think her middle paragraph speaks to the timing:

Recently I was made aware that AI of ‘me’ falsely endorsing Donald Trump’s presidential run was posted to his site. It really conjured up my fears around AI, and the dangers of spreading misinformation. It brought me to the conclusion that I need to be very transparent about my actual plans for this election as a voter. The simplest way to combat misinformation is with the truth.

In order to let her fans have accurate information, so they're not seeing her tangled in confusing AI versions in the future, launching this endorsement now trumps (!) any GOP application of fake endorsements. It is crystal clear. And love or hate her music, she is a principled young woman with great influence who is trying to make a difference. She's the one who donates hugely to food banks in any community where she performs, who pays her entire staff and road crew well, and who makes a lot of charitable donations based upon circumstances she encounters.

Harris got his goat - in particular when she invited people to attend one of his rallies. Jon Stewart (The Daily Show) got the screen shot when she scored a direct hit on his ego and he said he had to "clarify" and talk about his events, and then, bizarrely, about dogs being eaten by immigrants in Ohio. He's a lunatic.

I rest my case.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 03:00 PM

Thanks for the extra info about Taylor Swift, Stilly.

I think her timing was perfect and her influence, especially on young women, will be crucial. As I said before, she acted ethically by not telling her fans who to vote for but just encouraging them to vote.

I will watch the rest of the debate today but Trump drew the short straw by having to debate on ABC America. :-D

They fact-checked him on his outrageous claims and were firm but fair in moderating the debate.

When I watch and listen to Trump my overwhelming thought is that his prime motivation is to stay out of jail.

I also think he "fact" checked Harris on how much he inherited from his father. According to him, he didn't inherit $400 million, but only a "fraction" of that. What, 5%, 55%, 99.9%? Over 100%? Any middle American or working class American who inherited even 5% would have life-changing outcomes.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 04:04 PM

I was watching an interview with several undecided voters, and one young woman said when she was explaining why she was probably supporting Trump, "I just don't think she has actual ideas that will make things better."
   This is typical for Republicans to denigrate Democratic ideas. They just throw out generalized complaints and seldom mention any specifics. I guess they learned this from Trump.
When I listen to interviews with most "progressive" politicians, they usually explain why they hold that particular view. On Fox news, they do the usual ambiguous accusations, and then make sarcastic and irrelevant remarks about liberal viewpoints.
   I wonder where that young woman has been that she has totally missed Harris's ideas and explanations.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 04:43 PM

My key thought again while watching the debate is: underestimate her at your peril, Trump!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 06:17 PM

It's treacherous for a campaign when people begin to see their candidate as the frontrunner - because the thought of "they don't need my vote" can come along if there are hurdles to voting, such as getting registered, getting an absentee ballot, or getting to the polls (especially if there is weather involved). It's so important for people to do what they can to vote early if it is available, then sit back and watch the results. Keep in mind, the only "poll" that is important is the voting booth.

It's best for Harris/Walz to maintain an underdog stance.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 07:05 PM

Yep. It ain't over till the fat orange defeated jailbird sings.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:22 AM

Bill D, Please tell us Harris ideas?is she going to cut defence spending?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:43 AM

It's treacherous for a campaign when people begin to see their candidate as the frontrunner - because the thought of "they don't need my vote" can come along if there are hurdles to voting, ...

On the other side, there is the thought that 'If I vote for the loser, then my vote will have been wasted'. If people are told often enough that a candidate can't win, even when it's not true, then the chances are that they won't win.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 08:59 AM

Well, Sandman... her policies are thoroughly documented and available. If you want details, YOU do the searches. It's not my job to make lists for you that you would no doubt dismiss.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 09:48 AM

I can't help but think that Swift's endorsement would have made a bigger splash if she'd done it during a less crowded news cycle, it just didn't get the coverage on yesterday morning's news programs that it deserved with all that was going on. That said, it was her's to make and I'm glad she made it.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Rain Dog
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 11:12 AM

Here in the UK some media outlets reported that Harris ignored questions about her various changes of policy.

From the Politico website:

'I don’t know if she will regret it, but Harris still left some unanswered questions about positions she’s changed over the years. Trump brought it up over and over, she was asked directly about some of those from Linsey Davis and the folks who still have questions are left with “my values haven’t changed.”'

I did not see the debate myself.

Talk is that this election will rest on the outcome of a small number of votes in swing states. Like a lot of others I am hoping that Trump does not win.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 12:07 PM

gillymor, Swift's announcement was on her social media page so her gazillions of fans would have seen it very quickly. I think it was good that she jumped in straight away. Her endorsement was immediate.

Trump's vow to end the war in Ukraine means, in fact, that he will suck up to Putin and let him take over Ukraine in whatever dastardly way he chooses. It's not a positive promise but a threat. I still see in my mind's eye the contemptuous smirk Putin had on his face when he met Trump, presumably because he knew how easily he could manipulate him.

Rain Dog, the problem with the debate format is the time limit, and the pressure to choose the most important statements which can be said most succinctly and with the most impact. I think that if Harris does some media interviews she will have a better chance to explain her policies in more depth. I hope she does do some interviews, but wait and see.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 12:34 PM

Depends on what "end the war in Ukraine" means.
Does Ukraine get its territory back and a guarantee that the Russians will not invade again, plus reparation for rebuilding all that's been destroyed? That would be an end. But giving a bit here and a bit there - that's just rewarding invaders.
I dunno; the American Republican party just seems to have got… odd.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 03:17 PM

Doug Chadwick:

The Democratic Party is I think the oldest continuously 'maintained' party in the United States. It was originally titled the "Democratic-Republican" party (not sure about the hyphen). In the early part of the 19th Century there were other strong parties, I believe there was a Whig Party and there several siginficant party developments that rose and faded. One of them was an anti-Immigrant party that was unoffically called The KNow Nothings, which has some resonance today in the TRMP folder.

The Republican party that we know today (sort of) was established in the latter half of the nineteenth century specifically to foster abolition and its first nominee for President was Abraham Lincoln. The Democratic Party split between Nor th and South during the Civil War. After the War it became a hodge podge which I cannot quantify, but in the mid 20th Century it underwent a large dos-i-do, by which I mean a circular dance, with the Republicans. It took a couple of generations because Democrats had a reliable vote for decades, called the 'Solid South'. If you follow American politics of this era, remember that Theodore 'Teddy' Roosevelt, was a liberal in many matters, and a Republican. His distant cousin Frankline Roosevelt, was a Democrat, and definitely a liberal of his era. He was considered a radical by many of the big bnusinessmen of his time. In racial matters, the WW2 era of Democrats were sort of split, with many in power gradually or in the case of FDR's wife Eleonor, less gradually, using their personal and politcal power to advance the causes of social agendas and racial progress. And after FDR's sudden death, his Vice President who became President, Harry Truman, de-segregating parts are all of the U.S. Military. Lydon Johnson made it a great part of his administration to advance the cause of multi-culturalism both in race issues and immigration issues. By the late 1960s, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party had done a major 'switcheroo'.

It is important to mention that a further change has occurred post Reagan where the Republicans have gone further to the right then ever. Prior to Reagan, you could get significant adherence to liberal ideas without embarassment from such well known Republican leaders as members of the Rockefeller family and New York Mayor Lindsay. President Richard Nixon was the originator of American's China policy and the Environmental Protection Agency was created under his administration.

There are still significant developments that occur as a result of cross party cooperation. When I was in the engineering business I learned of significant legislation that had been happening over the pat decades to result in major changes to diesel generator pollution improvements which were well thought out and are even now improving our atomosphere.

If you are not familiar with American Politics this might be unknown to you, and many Americans are that ignorant. Occasionally Republicans of this day refer to themselves as "The Party of Lincoln" but in my ears there is always a derisive laugh at that line. It doesn't happen that often now, becuase many of them, particularly the TRMP induced ignaramuses of this era, don't know their own proper history and would prefer to brag on Ronald Reagan anyway.

The reality is more interesting, hopeful, complicated, and yet extremely ridiculous. . .

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:18 PM

Donald Trump on his Truth Social account is now stating
There Will Be No Third Debate.

That's third for Trump, second for Harris, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:26 PM

He's not as dumb as I thought he was.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:30 PM

On an Oz TV show called Planet America, one of the people interviewed said that the image he expects will go viral from the debate is Trump's sweaty upper lip. I'm not sure whether it was the same man who said that Harris was cleverly throwing "shiny things" towards Trump which he found impossible to ignore, i.e. baiting him to respond in his usual, predictable ways.