BS: American Presidential race 2024

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 24 - 02:25 PM

Sadly, Stilly, the facts are rarely taken into account. If it is the public's perception that something is wrong then that will stick. Our last Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, was torn apart with stories that he was an antisemitic terrorist supporter. The facts did not bear that out but the mud stuck. If Biden is to ride this out he needs to be stronger than Corbyn and ensure that the rumours of his frailty are stamped out. To do that he must hit hard and regularly. In my opinion of course

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 04 Jul 24 - 02:31 PM

Also, with reference to Oz's first and only female PM, Julia Gillard, our democratic system meant that we weren't voting for her specifically as PM. We vote for the local candidate we want and then the political party with the most successful candidates gains the majority in Parliament and the previously nominated leader of that party becomes the PM in the federal elections or the Premier in state elections. We have had a few female state Premiers.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 24 - 02:49 PM

We have had 3 female PMs. Sadly they were all disastrous. I fully support the principle of gender equality but only as long as the encumbant is a capable leader. I really don't know enough about Harris to know if she is. Can you enlighten us, Stilly?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 04 Jul 24 - 07:35 PM

I was watching a music video show and the videos were chosen by an Irish-Australian comedian, Jimeoin. One of the videos was Asshole by Denis Leary, which I haven't seen for many, many years and always thought it was very funny.

Now I listen to the lyrics and think it is all about Trump. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 02:41 AM

I agree that Dems need to stick with Biden at this point. We're too far along in the process to shift gears to a different candidate. Barring a Biden abdication any attempt to move to a new candidate will split the party. A divided Democratic party is about the only path to a Trump victory. We need Unity at least til after the election, then we can go back to bickering. As Will Rogers once stated, "I don't belong to an organized political party...I'm a Democrat."

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 05:09 AM

I agree NeilD. The article I linked to on 03 Jul 24 - 03:01 AM presents the argument that changing the candidate at this late stage would jeopardise the chances of a Democrat victory and increase the chances of Trump getting elected.

I think the prime strategic goal has to be keeping Trump out of the White House. Too much depends on that to take unnecessary risks at this stage.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 08:15 AM

Yesterday the people of the UK voted for moderation in politics. Let us hope that the craze will catch on across the pond. Things went that way in 1964 with The Beatles so, 60 years later, another British export is long overdue :-D

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 09:31 AM

"Yesterday the people of the UK voted for moderation in politics."

Seriously?

We have ended up with a party that is too far right for your tastes because a lot of people have voted for a far from moderate party.

A question for the American voters. Do people vote for the candidate or the party in presidential elections?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 10:47 AM

In the US we vote for candidates, but in the US we have the winner-takes-all-votes Electoral College that gives an entire state to the winner in each state, it doesn't let the popular vote stand for the winner. (If there was no electoral college Hillary Clinton would be in her second term right now.)

This was put in place, erroneously, as it turns out, by those founding fathers, back in a day when only white male landowners voted and the small states were afraid of having no power, so every state got two senators, regardless of their population. That has worked against us since forever.

There are 14 states so far (don't quote me, but I think that's the number Robert Reich, former Labor Secretary under Clinton and political activist cites) that have broken with that and the votes are apportioned to the candidates during the electoral college convention (that whole mess on January 6, 2021 was the House accepting the results of the electoral college, where Trump tried to insert his fake electors.)

Some of you who read the Declutter thread may know that last spring I went in for two sleep studies, but they were inconclusive. My days were under-powered, to summarize. No energy, little interest in the usual things. It turns out that my late night work on the computer or reading on screens was the culprit. My own bad habits were washing my eyes and brain with blue light that makes getting to sleep more difficult and having productive sleep almost impossible. I've started turning off the computer a couple of hours before bed - what a change! And at Biden's meeting with Democratic governors this week he told them that he was changing his work habits, not working late into the evening and getting more sleep. I'm willing to bet he had the same problem I was having. It can lead to memory lapses, low energy, and general problems during the day. It is reversible by getting away from the screen and getting better sleep. It is certainly what I have found. It's like flipping a switch, once you back away from the screen, I felt better right away when I started this practice. So too will Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 10:56 AM

Thanks for the response.

But my question remains. Would a Democrat voter vote for a Republican candidate and vice versa?

The impression (and it is an impression) is that party lines in the USA are even more extreme than here in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 11:07 AM

In the primaries you choose which party and choose your favorite candidate, and if there is a runoff you can only vote in the same party, you can't switch over to boost someone on the other ticket. In the general election there are no such restrictions. A "straight ballot" was sometimes an option - at the top you could darken the box for all Democratic or all Republican candidates, but that was taken away in Texas because some of the down-ballot Republican candidates lost when that happened when Biden was elected. (We have a really awful GOP governor right now.)

I use information from the League of Women Voters (a long-established non-partisan voter rights group) that gives each candidate in all local, county, state, and national races a place to fill out their information and state their policies. https://www.vote411.org/. Once upon a time there were publications with all of this information, now you have to go online to find it.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 11:32 AM

I'll respond to your question in the UK politics thread RD.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 24 - 02:39 AM

A crossover to the UK politics thread

"In a social media post, Mr Trump wrote: "Congratulations to Nigel Farage on his big WIN of a Parliament Seat Amid Reform UK Election Success.

"Nigel is a man who truly loves his Country.""

Birds of a feather eh?

I suspect Putin will have done the same.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 06 Jul 24 - 02:39 AM

But my question remains. Would a Democrat voter vote for a Republican candidate and vice versa?

Well Rain Dog (cool screen name BTW) I can only speak for myself in that regard. When I was 15 I got the chance to tour Europe with the School Band of America as a last-minute replacement, but it hinged on being able to get a passport in a hurry. My parents contacted our congressman and 2 days later a government car pulled up in front of my house with my passport. Six years later when I voted for the first time he happened to be on the ballot and I felt like I owed him one. That's the only time in my life I ever voted for a Republican. It isn't personal, it's just that in order to be a Republican candidate you must support policy that I find detrimental to us as citizens. And that becomes increasingly true with every new bunch. The last decent president from that party was probably Eisenhower, but had I been around then I still would have been "Madly for Adlai".

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 24 - 11:41 AM

That's a good point. Our House and Senate members have offices in the state and are supposed to be there to support their state - all constituents - during their time in office. I have called our GOP Senators to register my opinion on how they should vote and gotten snotty answers from whoever answered - so I'm not bothering to call them any more. I have emailed and faxed messages.

The House members have fewer people to serve, but at a more granular level. I was able to contact my House member last year when a federal agency was taking its sweet time processing my share of a retirement pension - after filing the secure form they forwarded it to the agency - I literally had the money later that day. That said, this is what all representatives are supposed to be doing, cutting red tape and helping constituents. Though the staff was helpful I won't vote for this guy because he not only is GOP, he brought Marjorie Taylor Greene to town to campaign for him. She's the guttersnipe from Georgia who had her assignments stripped in her first term after she supported the January 6 events. Darned if her district didn't send her back to do more damage.

Trump has started to deny knowledge of the Project 2025, but it's out there in plain sight. A lot of talking heads are making much of it lately to call attention to a huge difference between Trump and Biden (and the corporations and oligarchs behind Trump).

(I will also share a bit of a puzzle here - the GOP participated in the removal of GOP Rep. George Santos. Why not some of the others who are charged with crimes? We must assume that Trump didn't like Santos, but there is more to be learned about that event.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 07 Jul 24 - 08:19 PM

Stilly, I have never heard of Project 2025 but it makes sense of what has been happening behind the scenes. Scary agenda!

I'm still waiting to hear that the Democrats have stopped being antsy and that they will put their full support behind President Biden and let him and everyone around him get on with the job and succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jul 24 - 12:24 PM

Far right kicked out in the UK
Far right kicked out in France
Come on, USA. Give us the hat trick! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jul 24 - 01:01 PM

The far right in france unfortunately have not been kicked out
what follows possibly now, is a period of instabilIty in france.
There is unlikely to be a coaliton between any of them.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jul 24 - 02:29 PM

Yea, fair enough, not kicked out in France but certainly had their claws removed.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jul 24 - 02:35 PM

I'm still waiting to hear that the Democrats have stopped being antsy and that they will put their full support behind President Biden and let him and everyone around him get on with the job and succeed."
unlikely
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/07/in-search-of-a-credible-replacement-for-joe-biden

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 08 Jul 24 - 05:16 PM

Joe Biden digs in for another day with a defiant letter, a surprise interview and frustration with 'the elites'

"US President Joe Biden is continuing to put up a determined fight for his political life.

"He's responded to ongoing pressure to step aside for a younger presidential candidate by writing to his colleagues in Congress and phoning into a TV show to insist he's not going anywhere."

....

"The letter

"Biden tweeted out a letter that he has sent to Democrats in Congress. It said he was "not blind" to the "good faith fears and worries" held by voters and members of his party. But, he wrote, he was "firmly committed to staying in this race".

    "'This morning, I sent a letter to my fellow Democrats on Capitol Hill. In it, I shared my thoughts about this moment in our campaign.'

    "'It’s time to come together, move forward as a unified party, and defeat Donald Trump.' pic.twitter.com/ABtAaJrr0n
    — Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) July 8, 2024

"He argued he had a "deep obligation" to the Democratic Party voters who had chosen him as their candidate.

    "'It was their decision to make. Not the press, not the pundits, not the big donors, not any selected group of individuals, no matter how well intentioned. The voters — and the voters alone — decide the nominee of the Democratic Party. How can we stand for democracy in our nation if we ignore it in our own party?'

"Biden said the 'question of how to move forward' had been 'well-aired for over a week', but it was time for it to end."

"'We have 42 days to the Democratic Convention and 119 days to the general election. Any weakening of resolve or lack of clarity about the task ahead only helps Trump and hurts us.'"

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 08 Jul 24 - 11:49 PM

Put Joe's perceived frailty and Trump's proven dishonesty aside. These aren't what is going to decide this election, the price of gasoline will. If it's under $3 a gallon on election day, Biden wins. Over $3, Trump wins. So Biden needs to release a significant amount from our oil reserve sometime around mid-October. Republicans will cry foul but the American people will only notice the price going down.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 01:02 AM

The price of gasoline might have an effect but i doubt if it will decide it on its own.,that will reduce inflation, but if he increases the old age pension at the same time or increases social welfare, that should do it.
the loss of tax on gasoline could partly be made up by taxing cigerettes,about 12 percent of USA population smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 10:59 AM

Britain Prepares for Trump’s Return: Major Shifts in Security and Foreign Relations Expected

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 11:14 AM

Until recently it was assumed that the Democratic National Convention would be a modest event, but now it looks like there might be some deal-making. Who knows - and what do you want to bet that the twitterverse voices lobbying against Joe are joined by a chorus of bots from Russia.

It would really be perfect if Donald was sentenced to prison time on July 11, as planned, but the fact that he'll be sentenced in September, much closer to the election, is not going to hurt the Democrats.

There is a bubbling of enthusiasm in the nation that isn't showing up on the polls. Polls are pretty much obsolete and should always be ignored -especially if they seem to show your candidate ahead. The only poll we want to see is the results on election day.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 02:07 PM

Dave, that link just takes you to a headline and very little else - just a couple of sentences ending with ‘here’s the full story’, then….tumbleweed.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 02:15 PM

It works as a sideshow BWM. If you swipe the pic it continues

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 02:28 PM

Aaaaaahh! Got it! Thanks Dave…

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 03:36 PM

I'm sure the bots are out there botting. Unfortunately for them, predicting the outcomes of their guided biases is a tricky art. The safest thing for them to bot for is to render us fearful and uncertain. And there are so many ways to do that. Unfortunately, it is very often that those who sow, reap their own products. They foil themselves often, but that doesn't do the rest of us much good unless we have learned to live and work by principles and recognize others who do the same.

Those who are adept at marketing might be able to save us a little bit. We know that these techniques work, whether or not we are aware of them. So there should be a developing of guidelines, like firemen's lines leading us through the smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 10:07 PM

I have spent most of my life listed as Non-partisan, because in the old days I sometimes voted for a Republican. Eisenhower was one, and I have also voted Republican for local politicians on some occasions, such as Oregon's governor Mark Hatfield and for Senator Bob Packwood- before Packwood was disgraced.

In the 'old' days, the Republican party was a far cry from what it has become. There is no way I would- or will- vote Republican for the foreseeable future. IMO they deserve obliteration.

Stilly, back on June 30 at 7:18 pm, did you misspeak when you suggested that "Hillary" would be the nominee if Biden were to resign?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jul 24 - 10:17 PM

No, I didn't misspeak. But it wasn't intended to be taken seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 24 - 11:04 AM

Some of you may remember a senatorial race from six years ago, when Beto O'Rourke ran against Senator Ted Cruz. He came closer to unseating that bellicose senator than anyone has in a long time. O'Rourke was a popular two-term congressman from El Paso, and we were sorry to see him leave the House, but he has made a big mark on Texas politics. He still has an effective machine (a PAC called Powered By People) that is this year working to register as many voters as possible. The equally popular congressman Colin Allred, from Dallas, a former professional football player who clearly wore his protective headgear at all times is now running against Cruz. And while Beto works as hard as before to get voters registered, Allred, who was a hero of the House during the Jan. 6 breech of the Capital (he was some of the muscle ready to keep rioters out of the chamber, if need be, and of helping members escape) is running a very close race.

This is an example to illustrate about "down ballot races." Voting, even if you aren't in love with the top candidate, and voting a straight ticket (even if you have to fill in all of the Democratic spaces yourself - it has been mentioned before, possibly elsewhere, that in states like Texas that option was removed from ballots four years ago when Biden won and Democrats in down ballot races beat local GOP candidates who thought they were a shoo-in.)

If Allred can take that seat from Cruz, it helps Democrats keep the Senate. There are a lot of formulas out there about members who are weak in their states, and I don't think people outside Texas consider Cruz vulnerable. This would be a special gift from Texas if we can get rid of that nasty piece of work who has been in a position of power for far too long (and is one of the folks who did a turnabout of opposing Trump to being a solid vocal supporter, even after the insults Trump hurled at him.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Jul 24 - 11:37 AM

I have a question about voter registration in the USA.

Once you have registered at your home address how often do you have to confirm the details? Each year?

Here in the UK the government, via local councils, check each year to see if the details are correct for each address. If they are correct there is no need to do anything. We only have to reply if any of the details have changed.

Here in the UK, you can also contact the authorities yourself if you need to be added.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 24 - 02:51 PM

There used to be lots of ways to register in Texas, for example when you renew your driver's license you could check a box to register yourself at the address of record. Mail in applications, walk in at county courthouse locations, and there are sometimes mailings from interested non-partisan groups that include the forms. I don't know if any of those are still allowed. The trouble these days is that the GOP is trying to remove registered voters by purging the rolls if people haven't voted recently or they suspect someone isn't eligible (for whatever cooked-up reason.) Then you have to be sure to get yourself added back in. So yes, checking to be sure you're still registered is important.

It varies from state to state, the more liberal locations make it as easy to register, and also to vote. Mail in, for the big one. During COVID lots of places had drive-through voting and in Texas the Secy of State fought that (because it was done in the Democratic region of Harris County, where Houston is situated).

I can check online to be sure that my mail in ballot was accepted (you put the ballot inside a larger envelope on which your voter ID and signature are there for confirmation that you are voting in your own name.) If it is rejected for some reason you can go to the polling place on election day and vote. But you have to know that it was rejected in order to do that.

Some places have same-day registration, so if you're new in town you register and vote at the same place. Not here. In Texas you have to have registered 30 days or more before the election.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jul 24 - 11:48 PM

where does the real power lie? The aramaments industry?The corporations?
does it matter that Biden has senior moments occasionnally

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 24 - 01:55 AM

my impression is that some voters feel unreprsented and see Trump as anti establishment[ which he is not]

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Jul 24 - 02:31 AM

Thanks for the info, SRS.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 24 - 02:40 AM

here are some donors to Trumps campaign
TIMOTHY MELLON
Timothy Mellon, an 81-year-old heir of the Pittsburgh-based Mellon banking family, has given the pro-Trump super PAC known as MAGA Inc at least $16.5 million since 2022. He also gave at least $20 million to a pro-Trump super PAC called America First Action Inc during the 2020 presidential election.
ISAAC AND LAURA PERLMUTTER
Isaac "Ike" Perlmutter, the former chairman of Marvel Entertainment, and his wife Laura Perlmutter have donated more than $10 million in this election cycle to a new pro-Trump fundraising super PAC called Right for America. Perlmutter has been a regular at Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida and has been a longtime contributor to Trump's campaigns. The Perlmutters gave at least $21 million to America First Action Inc in 2020.
PATRICIA DUGGAN
Patricia Duggan, a major donor to the Church of Scientology, has given MAGA Inc more than $5 million this election cycle.
Her ex-husband Robert Duggan is an investor and entrepreneur whose fortunes were boosted by the 2015 sale of cancer drug maker Pharmacyclics to AbbVie (ABBV.N)
, opens new tab for $21 billion. Forbes puts his net worth at about $3.3 billion, opens new tab.
ROBERT BIGELOW
Nevada budget hotel tycoon Robert Bigelow, 79, has given MAGA Inc over $9 million in this cycle. Bigelow told Reuters in January he had pledged to give the pro-Trump group a total of $20 million.
Bigelow, who has a fascination with UFOs and space and funds various research efforts, has dined with Trump at Mar-a-Lago. Bigelow says he donated $1 million for Trump's legal funds.
In 2011, Forbes
, opens new tab estimated Bigelow's real estate holdings were worth around $700 million.
info from Reuters

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 24 - 03:31 AM

https://data.usatoday.com/2024-presidential-candidates-top-contributors-as-of-march-2024/?ref=kennedy

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jul 24 - 03:43 AM

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/11/bidens-candidacy-in-crisis-as-clooney-us-senator-call-on-him-to-quit

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jul 24 - 11:06 AM

Enough hand-wringing, Dick! The candidate selection process is usually more orderly with primaries, but I think after people see the mess that is the GOP next week at their convention it will all settle down behind Biden and things will move forward. For those who aren't in love with Biden as they candidate, they will still vote against Trump. The down ballot candidates are the ones making the most fuss right now, but again, Democrats know that it isn't just the president, it is the house and senate, and where they are elected, judges, who will make a difference against this insane Project 2025 manifesto the Heritage Foundation has cooked up (with all sorts of past Trump administration officials). Trump can't get away with pretending he doesn't know what it is, or that it wouldn't go into effect were he elected. As great as HE thinks he is, all of those puppet masters around him really know who would be pulling the strings.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jul 24 - 11:22 AM

All supposition.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jul 24 - 11:36 AM

So is your content, Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 13 Jul 24 - 04:57 AM

I keep wondering why various actors are putting forward their opinions on President Biden and not leaving the political strategy decisions to the experts.

I also think that the high profile people expressing their opinions about Joe Biden choosing to stay in the race are putting the country at risk because, in my opinion, if President Biden backs out of the race now the chances of someone else gaining enough traction at this late stage is fairly slim. I think Trump is gaining traction through the to-and-fro discussions. That's just my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Jul 24 - 06:40 AM

Their presumed degree of influence on the public is what's disturbing.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 13 Jul 24 - 06:50 AM

I agree, Lighter. It makes me wonder whether the actors are conflating their real world understanding with the fictional character roles they have played on screen.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Jul 24 - 07:02 AM

They have an opinion just like those of us who also have an opinion.
Unlike some of us who post on this thread, they probably also have a vote and a genuine worry about the forthcoming election.

I remember a lot of the coverage of Reagan's campaign and his time in office. It did not stop him from being elected.

No doubt there is a difference of opinion amongst the 'experts' involved in decisions within the Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jul 24 - 02:18 PM

98...

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jul 24 - 02:23 PM

99…Aa-a-a-and……..

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 13 Jul 24 - 02:44 PM

Ok, I confess Rain Dog. I don't have a vote, but I do have genuine worries about Trump being re-elected because of the Australia-US alliance on various issues. :-)