BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: mandoleer
Date: 07 May 05 - 05:44 PM

I rather like the name of the UK Independence Party's candidate in High Peak, as quoted by HuwG. M. Schwartz. Err, aren't they against immigration from the rest of Europe, or something.....

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: alanabit
Date: 07 May 05 - 05:59 PM

English names is a subject in istelf, isn't it? I saw a Kevin Keegan play for England against Ireland and an Emlyn Hughes play for England against Wales. I don't know if Duncan Mackenzie and Malcolm MacDonald ever did really play for England against Scotland, but it would not surprise me.
Another one of my favourite idiosyncracies of history is the name Gustav Holst. Obviously, he was German. However, my musician friends assure me he was English through and through. We are an odd lot, aren't we? I wonder when the first Mohamed Ali Salim will play football for us against an Arab nation?

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 05 - 06:04 PM

Tony Blair Downplays Iraq Memo
May 1, 2005, 20:20 GMT

LONDON (UPI) -- British Prime Minister Tony Blair has downplayed a leaked memo that indicates he was looking to justify the Iraq War eight months before the conflict began.

Blair said the opposition Liberal Democrats and Conservatives were focusing on Iraq because they have "nothing serious to say" about other issues.

Conservatives have accused the prime minister of deceiving the Cabinet and the Commons over the war, and Liberal Democrats have said Iraq will continue to haunt Blair if he wins the election. On Sunday, The Times of London published an alleged memo dated July 23, 2002, by Matthew Rycroft, a former Downing Street foreign policy aide. Foreign Secretary Jack Straw is quoted in the memo as saying U.S. President George Bush had "made up his mind to take military action even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin."

"Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran," the memo reportedly said.

"We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would help with the legal justification for the use of force."

Copyright 2005 by United Press International

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 May 05 - 06:12 PM

What other issues could be of more importance than a prime minister who sees noyhing wrong in lying repeatedly to parliament, and to the British people?

Words fail me.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: HuwG
Date: 07 May 05 - 08:46 PM

I have little time for the UK Independence Party, but like Mandoleer, I suspect that their candidate for the High Peak constituency, Michael Schwartz, is really the pretender to the throne of Ruritania, in disguise.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: Peace
Date: 08 May 05 - 12:46 AM

"Rycroft Memo: I haven't the foggiest idea what that is.

DougR "

My cut and paste was for you, Doug. Now you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 10 May 05 - 08:24 AM

Text of the Rycroft Memo

Read this, then explain to me again the various and varying reasons for invading Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: GUEST,Boston Tea Salesman
Date: 10 May 05 - 08:30 PM

Hey - Yanks - Go and practice regime change on another invadee.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: heric
Date: 10 May 05 - 09:05 PM

There's nothing offensive or revelatory about this memo. I'm glad:
1. Those bozos in Washington actually think sometimes for their pay;
2. It shows no evidence of Blair or the UK being enticed or coerced, but instead portrays the UK being treated respectfully as a full partner whose support would be appreciated;
3. The perceived risk of WMD was real, not entirely feigned, if this memo is to be believed; and,
4. The weaknesses in the justifications, especially the legal grounds, were acknowledged forthrightly as matters to be addressed, rather than described as merely trivialities to be overcome by propoganda.

This memo paints a much brighter picture of the inner workings than I had previously envisioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 May 05 - 06:02 AM

Perhaps true, Heric, but we were not sold the war on the basis of that memo. In fact we were told that WMDs in Iraq could be deployed in 45 minutes.
DT

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: UncleToad
Date: 11 May 05 - 06:58 PM

Me thinks T Blair was re-elected just as was G Bush...To see if they can finish what they started in Eye-Rack.

Or is it "It is better to have the devil that you know..."

Did someone refer to Blair as Bush's "ButtBoy"?
Did someone refer to Bush as Blair's "ButtBoy"?

Define "ButtBoy" (In reference to these two)...

Uncle(IgnorantOnThisTopicButGotToKnow)Toad

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 May 05 - 12:23 AM

Oh please. Can you really say that this prophetic excerpt doesn't make you a little queasy.

"Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."

**justified by terrorism and WMD...intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy...little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action...**

Jus 'bout sums it the F-k up doesn't it?

Sheeesh.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: heric
Date: 12 May 05 - 12:53 AM

The memo is being used against Blair. Not Washington.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 May 05 - 12:46 PM

Right you are. And over here it is being largely ignored even though it pretty well damns Washington.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: heric
Date: 12 May 05 - 12:58 PM

Agreed.

But the thinking part in Washington is that they considered but then decided it would not be a productive course to use "Saddam is a very bad man" as the primary approach to sell an overseas war in a Gulf oil state. They were right about that much.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: GUEST,Moseph
Date: 12 May 05 - 03:17 PM

"Proportinal Repesentation is very diffucult for the agerage Brit to understand"

ok ARD MHACHA, so how come u can't spell proportional and representation?

For your Information, The last presidential election was the first for nearly 2 decades in which the winner also had a majority of the popular vote. But consider this, in previous election where turnout is roughly 50% and teh winner takes 50% of that vote to win, simple maths (if taht's not too hard) means that the winner has a mandate from effectively 25% of the US population. Not bad for the most powerful position in the world. Not. Chew that one over your freedom fries.

In Britain we have a sytem of democracy that has worked for almost three centuries. It's not perfect but we believe in evolution not revolution. Change will come over time. We don't need no American's telling us what to do, where do you think you get your system of government from??????

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: kendall
Date: 13 May 05 - 07:13 AM

It's amazing how we keep looking to politicians to make things right. I don't care which side they are on, they are all self serving whores, and the only choice we have is, which ones will do the least damage?

NO ONE DIED WHEN CLINTON LIED.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 May 05 - 12:31 PM

How true, Kendall. He gets kicked out for aspects of his private life, while the current clown is re-elected to kill more (including young Americans).

Same again in the UK.

Go figure.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: robomatic
Date: 13 May 05 - 04:33 PM

How untrue, kendall (and Don).

I'm not holding a brief for 'W' here, but Clinton was President while we lost boys in Somalia and his leadership led to some pointless attacks on Afghan guerillas and NATO bombing Serb cities. "Wag the Dog" was a hit during this period, although I thought it kind of sucked as a movie. But the principle was well understood.

""Proportinal Repesentation is very diffucult for the agerage Brit to understand"

ok ARD MHACHA, so how come u can't spell proportional and representation? "

I once asked arg gargle to pronounce her name and she never got back to me on it. Possibly it's a speling iszue.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: CarolC
Date: 14 May 05 - 12:32 AM

I think it's hilarious that people in Britain, when they think someone is ignorant, will often make the automatic assumption that the person in question is "American" (USAn).

GUEST,Moseph, ARD MHACHA is from your side of the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: CarolC
Date: 14 May 05 - 12:36 AM

BTW, GUEST,Moseph, the plural of "American" is "Americans". No apostrophe between the n and the s.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: Terry K
Date: 14 May 05 - 03:56 AM

Iraq was reduced to a state of chaos by internal conflict fuelled by foreign intervention, leading to a collapsed economy and a failure of provision of basic services.

That was how it was in the 1970's.

Iraq was saved from this chaos by the emergence of a charismatic leader who was able to restore some measure of order from the chaos, leading to a general improvement for most of the Iraqi people.

This situation continued until some people in the West decided that this leader was not right for the Iraqi people, so intervened in a way that ensured the position in Iraq would be restored to what it had been in the 1970's.

Iraq will only be saved from this chaos by the emergence of a charismatic leader who is able to restore some measure of order from the chaos, leading to a general improvement for most of the Iraqi people ..........

Blair should go, and go now. He should not be replaced by Brown. Brown is a grinning opportunist who has continued to grinningly deny the Labour Party manifesto promise of no tax increases. He has introduced (correct me if I'm wrong) something like 67 new taxes to date, commonly known as "stealth taxes". He has borrowed to an alarming level from world banks, without the prospect of a new oil industry to repay the loans, as was the rationale in the past.

The current state of UK politics seems to be simply a question of how you would like the lies to be delivered.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 May 05 - 04:23 AM

Absolutely bloody spot on Terry. It's what I've been saying for six of the eight years they've been in.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: robomatic
Date: 14 May 05 - 08:45 AM

Terry K:

Interesting post, now change Iraq to Germany and 1970's to 1930's.

Well said, Mr. Chamberlain!

Subject: RE: BS: Prospects of Tony Blair -American View
From: Terry K
Date: 15 May 05 - 03:44 AM

Sorry, tried it but don't see any parallel. Unless you are saying that we should have started World War 2 by invading Germany on the grounds that Hitler seemed not to be a nice chap?