Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Sue Hen
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:08 AM

My gran sang this version to me in the 50s
She was born 1895.

Chink chink China man had a little shop
He sold gingerbread, lemonade and pop
Everyone came to see his little shop
Chink chink Chinaman
Chop chop chop

We originate from Ashton under Lyne /Oldham area. Manchester

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:11 AM

There lived in china a very old man
his name was chikaraka ching chong man
His head was big but his feet was small
this little man could walk at all

chikaraka ching chong chi chikarony
alaban fat man o ko kony
iki wikki ikki bye oh kokony

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,J. Weiler
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 09:02 AM

Ching Ching, Ching Ching, Ching Ching Chong
Me gotta pig tail three miles long
Me velly glad to sing this song
Ching Ching, Ching Ching, Ching Ching Chong

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 12:56 AM

I know this thread is old by now, but I wanted to write this. This song and other songs with racial stereotype make me uncomfortable, being Chinese-Australian, although find it interesting reading people's comments and opinions about songs with racial stereotypes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 01:26 PM

Morwen, I agree with you, and I said so back here, in another thread about a similar song (or maybe a different version of the same song; I don't have the patience to figure it out).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,nige & marge
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 04:58 PM

This version was sung to me in London in the 1940,s with the
same chorus. But sorry cannot remember it all.
Did anyone help you out?

Marge

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM

There was a cartoon on the television in the 60's or 70's and someone in there said "chin chong chinaman" anyone know who it was or the cartoon.. seem to think it may have been a dog in it.
Paul

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Faz
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:56 AM

Anyone know this or any other verses to it?

Ching Chung Chinaman
Apple on a stick
Ching Chung Chinaman
Make a fella sick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 04:21 PM

No, the lyrics are poor and there is no historical, artistic or aesthetic value in the research

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:53 PM

In America during the coon song era (1890s), there are a number of racist songs directed at Asians. James Powers's 1898 recording "Chin Chin Chinaman" being an example. It's the same words that have been posted here over and over again: "Chin Chin Chinaman velly velly sad, etc." But he intersperses it with chinky gibberish throughout. There's Dan W. Quinn's "Mr. Jappy Jap Jappy" from 1897.

This was the era of the Yellow Peril and things were very bad for Chinese people in America. They lived under no less oppression, brutality and terror than Southern blacks. Robert Louis Stevenson traveled the US at that time and rode the rails. He noted that whites never looked at nor spoke to Chinese people--as though they were invisible--except to occasionally curse at or insult them, never discussed them except to talk shit about them even as they rode upon the very rails many Chinese men laid down often at the cost of their lives. Everywhere the trains went, the way was strewn with the bones and spattered with the blood of the untold thousands of Chinese men who gave their lives and without whom the job could not have been done.

Yet, in this photo taken at the completion of the Transcontinental railroad, one cannot help but notice the complete absence of Chinese workers. That's because they were forcibly removed before the photo was taken. We can't have white people not being the one and only heroes, now can we?

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/docroot/dulcinea/fd_images/news/on-this-day/May/Transcontinental-Railroad-Completed/news/0/image.

While a black man could rise to some level of respectability during that period--a large number of blacks were educated and literate and some as Bert Williams were among the highest paid in their fields--there was no such avenue open to Chinese.

By 1919, D. W. Griffith made the first interracial love movie in America called "Broken Blossoms" concerning the love between a Chinese man and a white woman. Of course, the Chinese man was played by a white man in yellowface (Richard Barthelmess) but even so, it was a daring movie where the white audience is being persuaded to pull for this couple over the whites who try (and eventually succeed) in destroying the relationship. So daring, that Hollywood for decades wouldn't try to repeat it with rare exceptions.

Instead, the white man was paired with the exotic Far Eastern woman in movie after movie for decades. Shocking that Puccini's "Madame Butterfly" was repackaged as "Miss Saigon" and still managed to be a huge attraction as though no time at all had passed between the two productions instead over 80 years. White men have this thing about Far Eastern women killing themselves over them. Not surprisingly, no Westerner has done a thesis on this strange fetish. And I'll believe it was based on a true story when someone can prove to me that "The Last Samurai" is historical instead of another patronizing piece of crap that could have been made 70 years ago judging from all the old stereotypes that were trotted out and shamelessly paraded around.

But then I suppose it's on Asians to reject these types of roles or it won't change. And it's time to silence those Asians who deliberately try to perpetuate this colonialist crap (Amy Tan and Lucy Liu, for example) which any Asian-American should find a complete embarrassment and obstacle to progress. Either that or get used to being Ching Chong Chinaman.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 08:07 PM

Josepp, how is it that you think that Amy Tan and Lucy Liu "perpetuate this colonialist crap"? I don't see that in them at all.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:48 PM

"Joy Luck Club" had no sympathetic Asian male characters at all. Not one. The white husbands, with one exception, were portrayed as ideal husbands. Then again, I do believe Amy Tan is married to a white man and that may have influenced her thinking. Suppose a white woman marries an Asian man and then writes a story where every single white male character is a complete asshole. Not one has a clue of how to act like a decent human being while the Asian male characters seem more or less well-balanced, disirable husband material. You'd say there was a bit of an agenda there, wouldn't you? If you don't, you should.

When Lucy Liu was cast in that "Charlie's Angels" remake, she demanded that her character's father be a white man. I believe they had cast an Asian man first, but due to her objections, cast John Cleese instead. No explanation is given as to how this obvious full-blooded Asian woman could possibly have a white father. Imagine watching a movie where Uma Thurman's character has a Filippino father without any explanation of how that could possibly be. Certainly, you would wonder about it. But when an Asian woman wants a white man to play her daddy, we don't wonder about that. Why is that?

Then she made this movie or something where several different men propose to her--all of them white. You would think as an Asian woman, one or two Asian men might be among her suitors. No, not Lucy Liu. Imagine, say, Rachel McAdams, doing a movie where every man wining and dining her is black--no white males even make a brief appearance. Would you not find that a wee bit odd?

And we haven't touched on how Liu's minority status exhibiting this behavior is hurtful to others who share that status. Just the behavior by itself is in need of questioning.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Sonya
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 04:44 AM

I remember little bits of a song my grandmother taught me about ching chong chinaman working in a laundry with the same tune as the song about the brothel.
Wondering if anyone else knows of this?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Zelda
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 10:37 PM

The one I remember is slightly different. I think we learned it in grade 2 or 3. This is what I remember:

There was an old man
and he came from China;
His name was Chicka Racka Ching Chong Chang
Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney
Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh.

His legs were big and his feet were small,
This little man couldn't walk at all
Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney
Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh.

Here he comes
And there he goes,
Funny little man with a screwed up nose;
Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney
Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh.

**I think there may have been one or two other verses but don't remember them****
Boy were the songs politically incorrect in those days. And attitudes were a lot more racist. My family had migrated to Australia from Holland, and we were also looked down on. People called us "new australians", or "wogs".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 04:07 AM

Thanks for adding a perspective to this song, Zelda. I agree that the song is racist. The trouble is, there was a cuteness and innocence to it, so people kept thinking it was OK to demean Asians this way because of the cuteness of it all.

People keep coming back to these racist anti-Chinese songs because they have happy memories of the songs. I guess that happened with Stephen Foster songs is the early days of the Black civil rights movement. I think the Foster songs have been sorted out pretty well by now. I still sing "Old Black Joe" because I see nothing racist in it, but some people disagree with me.

I didn't learn any "Chinaman" songs growing up in Wisconsin. By the time I moved here to California in 1973, "Chinaman" songs were unacceptable on the West Coast.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Grand master cho
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:42 PM

Ching Chong ching Chong got a little ding dong   Ching Chong Ching Chong you vagina is sideways    ,does anyone know a song that goes something like that rember kids singing it when I was like nine or ten!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 09:12 PM

Something that I don't think has been mentioned:

In 1922, actor Lon Chaney starred in a film called Shadows. He was in yellowface, playing a character called Yen Sin.

According to a Chaney biography by Michael F. Blake, Shadows was originally supposed to be titled Ching Ching Chinaman, and sheet music of the song was issued, viewable here. Music was credited to Louis F. Gottschalk, lyrics by Eve Unsell.

Note that while Chaney played Yen Sin, it says on the sheet music cover:

Lon Chaney as Ching Ching Chinaman in the Screen Production "Shadows".


Jay

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:22 AM

re Zelda's post about being looked down upon as a "New Australian" :
My best schoolfriends in the 60s were Dutch migrants :)

However, my great Aunt Annie, (Australian born of English heritage), had TWO legal marriages to Chinese men, in the early 1900s in Western Australia!

This was most definitely not a time or place of "multiculturalism" acceptance and anti-Chinese sentiment was commonly expounded in the Sunday newspaper,
especially accusing the Chinese of depravity "with our young women" in the opium dens. (see TROVE website).

Sadly, she died before I found out about her (still plenty of family secrets!) and also sadly, AFAIK, had no children. I would so love to have met and known her.


R-J

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Dale Ible from Forbes
Date: 03 Dec 21 - 08:40 AM

RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
My Grandmother was from England, and came over to Australia on a Ship that was later used in the Gallipoli Landings.
She was a Young Girl back then, and learned this song in the midst of
MANY Chinese Workers and Gold Diggers in the middle of NSW.
A Bush Girl NOW WORRIES.
Never Sung, Seen or Meant as Rasist by herself or her any of the People that worked or visited or lived around her Family Property.
An many of those people were of Chinese and Indian Cultures.
I ref to the recording of Dan W. Quinn "Chin Chin Chinaman", a song from the old play "The Geisha" of 1898 of "Berliner disc" records.
Comeon Folk, A KIDS RHYME from the Late 1800s to Early 1900s can only be seen as being Racist by people with an "Axe to Grind".
Lets be a bit more Adult about this type of thing Folks.


Ching Chong Chinaman Very Very Sad
Me Afraid All A Trade Very Very Bad
Now Jack Brokey Broke Makey Shutty Shop
Ching Chong Chinaman Chop Chop Chop

Chinaman he Makey Money All e Lifey Long
Wishy Washy Wishy Washy Wrong
When He Try To Steal A Colar Policee Man He Come
He Get Fine He Five a Dollar
Plenty Much A Sum

Ching Chong Chinaman Very Very Sad
Me Afraid All A Trade Very Very Bad
Now Jack Brokey Broke Makey Shutty Shop
Ching Chong Chinaman Chop Chop Chop

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 Dec 21 - 01:17 PM

Whilst only racists would want to glorify such material, we should be very wary of eradicating all reference to it as some seem to be suggesting. Eradicating all mention of Nazi atrocities or the worst aspects of colonialism do us no favours and whilst these are on a different level we need to remember them all for similar reasons, mainly so they don't happen again.

Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Samantha R
Date: 11 May 24 - 10:57 PM

In the mid-1980s in New Zealand, my grandfather bought me and my two siblings ukuleles and taught us the following short ditty whilst strumming along:

Ching chong Chinaman,
All very sad
All his cabbagies
All gone bad.

I don't remember any other verses. My parents weren't pleased at all with the lyrics and told us not to sing them at primary school and so we didn't. My grandfather was born in 1923 in central NZ and had learnt that ditty as a small child.

Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 14 May 24 - 06:57 PM

This utter racist bilge was also in circulation in my school in the 80s. I hope to high heaven that it has passed out of currency now.

Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 May 24 - 09:39 PM

I'd agree with you, Black Acorn. I think that here in the US, most of that particular type of racism is gone. But then again, there are times that I wonder. When COVID-19 was rampant, there was a bit of an upsurge of hatred against all Asian people, not only Chinese - but it died down fairly quickly.
We decided not to suppress these songs at Mudcat. Although most of us hate them, they are one of the few remaining examples of the "folk process."

Joe Offer

Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 May 24 - 10:36 PM

On the same thread - circa 1960 - West Coast USA.

woman is having a tryst in bedroom.
Husband comes home.
Woman shuts China man in the closet so fast his balls are hanging out.
Husband asks, "What are these?"
Wife replies, "Chinese bell chimes."
Husband kicks them once, twice, three times.
And the third time ... from the closet ... comes the high pitched cry of:
Ding Dong DAMMIT!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

The sins of our youth roll on today.

Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 15 May 24 - 06:40 AM

This is a pretty grim thread. That last post doesn't even seem relevant to the 'song'. It just seems like an excuse to share a racist 'joke'.

Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 24 - 03:11 AM

Told me when I was very young. I am 87 now!

Chinky Chinky Chinaman
Feeling velly ill
Chinky Chinky Chinaman
Taking a little pill
Chinky chinky Chinaman
Felling velly well
Pully back the bedclothes
And puffy what smell.