BS: Help in identifying a saber

Subject: BS: Help in identifying a saber
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 01:15 PM

Another thing for the display that the American Legion dropped off is a saber -- old, rusty, and the wood/leather for hilt is gone and the tang is exposed. They said that it was picked up on a battlefield in France in WWI and it once belonged to a German officer.

I was examining it today and found the following:

on the blade, in the forte, is engraved what appears to be "ART[superscript]A TIR[superscript]A DE TOLEDO 1879" -- or, "ARTA TIRA DE TOLEDO 1879" with the last A's on the first two words superscripted.

The cup guard of the saber is slightly lipped out, and on the lip is engraved the number 105.

The weapon is completely black, but I suspect that's from age, dirt, and rust.

Any ideas?

Subject: RE: BS: Help in identifying a saber
From: Amos
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 01:19 PM

Spanish Toledo steel, once known around the world as the best for blades of any kind. Certainly the sort of which think a German officer would want his blade drawn. I think but am not sure that what you are seeing in the superscripts is a kind of abbreviation for the past perfect tense -- just as in some ENglish letters from the period you see signatures like "Yr Obdt Servt" and the truncations are suberscripted to indcate the abbrteviation. Only these are in 19th century Spanish.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Help in identifying a saber
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 02:38 PM

You might be able to find something similar at this site.

If the library or the vets want to spend ten bucks, the people at www.whatsitworthtoyou will provide you with an identification and written appraisal, both retail and replacement value.

Good luck!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Help in identifying a saber
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 04:31 PM

WW 1 was a period that was rife with ornamental edged weapons. Train conductors had very nice dress sabers. The Germans had (have) a number of fine swordsmiths who had Army contracts. Any one below the rank of general would have to have a sword that matched the others. Uniform, you know. I don't know if the Spanish were in WW 1 but the Portugese certainly were. There's a well known storey about a Portugese regiment and an assholey English general. Perhaps it's Portugese. As a small scale, would-be collector, I can assure you that it's a complicated subject, many were very similar.

Subject: RE: BS: Help in identifying a saber
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 05:01 PM

Amos has it about right. Toledo blades were widespread. Some were excellent, made by real craftsmen, but nowadays a lot of junk is made for tourists who want a sword or knife for decoration.
Condition would have to be very good for it to have any monetary value to a collector.

Some Civil War sabers, made in very small numbers by Southern craftsmen, are worth a lot of money.
Mesophist is correct; blades, like so many items of interest to a collector, require specialist knowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: Help in identifying a saber
From: Desdemona
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 05:08 PM

Rapaire---send me a PM; I may be able to sort you out!

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Help in identifying a saber
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:46 PM

Remember if you're doing any research on English websites, it'll be "sabre".

Subject: RE: BS: Help in identifying a saber
From: zanderfish3 (inactive)
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 04:27 AM

I served in an English Cavalry Regiment from 1964 to 1968, even though we used tanks instead of horses we were still known as ' Sabre
Squadrons '

Dave