BS: Coping With Snow In Britain (revisited)

Subject: Coping with snow in Britain
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:26 PM

It is currently extremely embarrassing to be British !! We have had,in the last 24 hours or so, a modicum of snow, a few inches at best,and yet the entire nation has come to a virtual halt !!Is this the same nation that once forged and administered the greatest Empire the world has ever known ?? The same nation that endured five years of bombing,blockade,privation & starvation whilst under attack from Nazi Germany ??
               I could not BELIEVE the utter chaos and confusion that reigned supreme throughout the land today,following what amounted to,let's face it,a dusting of snow that countries like Switzerland, Norway,Canada, Sweden,Austria,Russia,Poland,even North Korea,would ,quite possibly ,not have even noticed !! WHY did all the schools close ?? WHY did the buses in London not run ??WHY were there no underground (subway) trains ??WHY were all the airports closed ??
         It is, without a doubt,a NATIONAL DISGRACE !!Our enemies must be very happy !!

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:59 PM

yes, indeed,are you from Tunbridge Wells?
I am not sure the British Empire ,was the greatest the world has ever known.could you explain why you think it was?

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:05 PM

Well firstly all the schools didn't close - I was at one. Secondly we only get snow like this very infrequently so it is not worth the expenditure of having all the equipment other countries use. I am not going to fit studded tyres for 1 day every ten years when I can't drive safely.
Secondly, what's the problem? One day out of 365 won't ruin us!

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:30 PM

Orkney schools didn't close. Orkney got no snow. So it is not all the UK anyway.There are loads of reasons to be embarrased as a nation.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:42 PM

I think we should all close everything and put our feet up - til its nice again. double grog rations all round.

Where's global warming when you need it?

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Alice
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:00 PM

pop some corn
watch some movies
play some music
read some books

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:26 PM

you know, bubblyrat, if you'd use what they did when the Empire was at its highest, you would have little trouble. Horses & carts do well in the snow.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:52 PM

A whole three inches! That is something to marvel over.

Outside we now have a foot and a half of snow, most of which we've had for a month. The temperature has been well below freezing for at least a month and a half.

Today it was 40 degrees F. I was tempted to go to the beach.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:31 PM

A whole two inches? Hope you have a dog sled. Remember, ya can't eat a skidoo.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:36 PM

PS I'm a Canuck (Canadian colonial) and I shed more dandruff than that on a daily basis. Sorry. No sympathy here. But one can locate it in the dictionary somewhere between shit and syphilis--both snow and sympathy.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:37 PM

PPS You could melt that stuff with a good electric hair dryer. Just make sure you're insulated.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:40 PM

My hometown, September 15, 2006.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Peace
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:43 PM

As Bobert would say, "I'm jus' funnin' with ya." Snow is snow, and if y'ain't used to it, any amount is too much. Dress warmly and be careful if it melts and freezes. That stuff is called ice and it can be slippery.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: 3refs
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:54 PM

"I am not sure the British Empire ,was the greatest the world has ever known.could you explain why you think it was?"

This was not asked of me, but as a fellow Canadian Colonialist I'll give you my slant. At one time in our recent history, the sun never set on the British Empire! I don't think the Mongols, Alexander or even the Americans can make the same statement!

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 11:36 PM

I understand closing things down when folks are not used to it; it saves a lot of grief and overtime for the safety folks if there aren't a lot of drivers out having accidents.

There is a lot of contrast to where we live now in Colorado, in the "Banana Belt," to Casper, WY where there was always plenty of snow: 2nd day of Autumn 2000 out my front door.

Here it hardly ever snows and rarely stays around, though this year has been the exception. There are always a few idiots out and about causing accidents when it does. There were those kinds of drivers in Casper, but generally people know how to drive in it up there.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 12:34 AM

kat, Morgan looks just like you did when you were little! Does he also resemble his mother?

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Stu
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:21 AM

"Snow is snow, and if y'ain't used to it, any amount is too much"

Well the rest of the country gets it and copes, but London has ground to a halt. They really should have been able to cope with what fell but there wasn't a bus running in the capital yesterday morning, which is rather pathetic.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:46 AM

Well, we had 6" to 8" of snow down here in Sussex, and I can't recall the last time it was that deep. Our last snowfall of any significance in this area was 5th April last year. As other folks have said, there's no point in having snow tyres, chains, etc. in a country where - in parts, at any rate - there's now very little regular snow.

Anyway, the lunchtime beer tasted good in my local (Harveys, Speckled Hen, Youngs and London Pride), and I spent a pleasant morning working out a fingerstyle arrangement of "Moonlight Bay" for guitar, and created a SN/tab/chord sheet for it.

More snow please!

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: peregrina
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:13 AM

odd that no one even used the word snow plow on the news today. They take up less storage space than grit and can be attached to vehicles normally used for other purposes...

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Cats
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:20 AM

We had very little snow in Cornwall yesterday and my school was definitley open. I drove down to Truro [just over 50 miles] and saw the odd snowflake. This morning is a bit different. We have about 3 inches of snow up here on the high moors. The main roads have snow ploughs on them but my school [25 miles away over the moors] has closed today. The lanes aren't clear and there is ice under the snow. The West of Cornwall has been worst hit. So, Jon's out taking pikkies ready for next years Christmas cards, the cats are curled up and snoozing, and after I have done this I am going to curl up in front of the wood fire with a good book and a very large mug of hot chocolate and have the day to myself. I for one would rather have money spent on our infrastructure and our schools than have it spent on something that last happened down here about 18 years ago. [3 years ago when Bodmin Moor was closed doesn't count as, had the lorry not jacknifed going up the hill on the A30, it would have been kept open... anyway I was in Birmingham and missed it!]

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Tangledwood
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:22 AM

"and yet the entire nation has come to a virtual halt "


Did anybody notice?    hehehe

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:30 AM

Where's global warming when you need it?

One of the most alarming aspects of global warming is the predicted failure of the Gulf Stream, which depends on a certain salinity to keep it moving, but this salinity is being diluted by fresh melt water from the Arctic which could, according to some scientists, bring it to a standstill. In such an eventuality, at these latitudes, Britain becomes a frozen tundra - the nothingness, the whiteness, the endlessness stretching on beyond the human imagination; desolation of the soul!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig2NtHY2g9k

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:37 AM

in Glasgow yesterday people just got on with their day after all it's just snow I can imgine wee places that a rural being closed off but not towns or cities.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:52 AM

yes, let's not forget that London and the South are not the be all and end all of the UK. Scotland and the North of England cope with this every year. However, it is worth the while of councils up there to invest in snow ploughs to keep the roads open. In London we rarely get enough snow to make it unsafe to drive and this sort of stuff happens less than once a decade. Economics!

That said, I do think more effort could have been made. I haven't seen a single council worker with a shovel, the pavements haven't been gritted, Phoebe's school couldn't even bother to put a message on their telephone system to say that the school was closed.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:06 AM

" . . . the sun never set on the British Empire . . . ".

You know why ?

Because even God wouldn't trust an Englishman in the dark :-)

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:15 AM

Over a foot of the white stuff here in Surrey. School closed. Road outside impassable (in fact I only just slid home in time on Sunday night before the great shutdown), no bus, no trains for a second day - eerily quiet. Decision on the school opening tomorrow to be taken this afternoon but no sign of any melting despite the sunshine and blue sky. It all looks very pretty - from indoors!

Sarah

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:45 AM

yeh, we'll all have an annexe built onto the house for the snow plough so we'll all be ready for the three days that it snows this decade.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:05 AM

At school on the rare occasions it froze and snowed they'd announce a snow holiday or a skating holiday, and it was brilliant.

It still is.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: My guru always said
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:08 AM

We had over a foot of snow here yesterday in Leatherhead and I for one was not surprised that public bus service couldn't run.

I managed to walk to work where I help to organise our Dial-a-Ride service for the elderly and disabled. My manager couldn't get to the office and neither could 2 other office workers. One bus driver walked in and between us we phoned every single Client who was due to travel yesterday to say that we were not running the buses.

Every single person (about 150 of them) totally understood and were grateful that we had phoned. We're not running today or tomorrow either as the sideroads are atrocious and we are a door-to-door service.   We have rung every Client to let them know. It would be foolish of us to attempt to run the service when elderly Clients are unsteady on their feet & there is any risk to them or to our drivers.

Lucky you, Roger, to only get 2 inches of snow, and you're not that far from Leatherhead either......

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:08 AM

I thought Disney was in Florida?


Glad to share the white stuff with our friends in the UK.
SINS, in snowy Maine

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:09 AM

Just to be picky....

Many buses couldn't get into the capital to run because they are garaged in outlying areas where the snow was deeper and roads less frequented. Certainly that's the problem with at least one Underground rail line, and when a defective train blocks another line, it's safer to just stop all the trains.

Besides, would YOU like to have a double decker bus sliding sideways at you because icy roads have rendered its brakes useless for stopping purposes?

Today's Metro paper (freebie, left at train stations) featured a picture of a snowplough - stuck in snow! So what do we do then?

LTS

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:40 AM

A foot of the stuff is headed to Scotland and Wales. Enjoy, folks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/4445836/Snow-Britain-forecasters-predict-ice-and-hail-to-follow-snow.html

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 09:04 AM

Rain here overnight and much of the snow has melted. I waited for the call to close school but it didn't come so I set off. I actually had driven the full 25 miles and was sat in the car park when the call came through to say they had to close as roads to outlying villages were too dangerous (most of the kids are bussed in as its a special school). So 25 mile drive back home again! Twins are back at school today but Maddie's off. She has a trip to London tomorrow so is hoping it can still go ahead - me too given that there may not be a refund if it doesn't!

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: G-Force
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 09:23 AM

Saddest thing I heard was, on a day when loads of kids had the day off school, the London parks were closed for 'health and safety' reasons.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:53 AM

Many parks were closed simply because they had been shut at dusk on Sunday and those with the keys to open them couldn't get in to work on Monday.

LTS

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Anne Lister
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:09 AM

I was in Luton yesterday to run a storytelling workshop. Roads were not good, to put it mildly, and my participant list was completely re-drawn from people who had made it in to the children's centre where the workshop was happening, instead of those who had signed up and couldn't get in. Conditions were not improving when I got back to where I was staying in Leighton Buzzard, and I consulted with the charity who are funding the workshops - we decided to cancel today's session and I drove home to Wales.
As I headed west it was a different world, with far less snow and roads all cleared, so I wondered if I'd made a mistake to be so cautious - but near to home I found the Disneyland ride which is our hill. Like an uphill skating rink. Made it to the house but not into our drive, where ice under the snow meant my wheels were determined to take me and my car into a gate post. So I parked outside.
Today husband has been unable to get his car out of the road to get to work and we've watched council workmen (bin men included) try and fail to get to the local houses. The main roads have been gritted and are clear, but these local roads haven't been and aren't. The snow has continued to fall. I've heard from my contact that the venue for today's workshop would have been difficult to access because of ice and the chances were high that participants would have failed to make it in. And my journey home would have been even more difficult tonight.
It's all very well to say that other countries do this stuff better - I've been in Toronto when there was an unusually large amount of snow and there were delays and difficulties there, too. Same in Moscow. Same in France. You can cope with your usual climate, but sudden excesses of precipitation will throw us all off course whether it's frozen or not.
As to the daft wazzock who said schools closing would give children the wrong impression - she obviously hadn't realised that schools can't operate when their staff can't get to work.

I've made a snow cat in the garden and we're cosy enough here. No idea yet what tomorrow will bring and whether I can make it into the school where I should be teaching songwriting, but I intend to keep safe.

Anne

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:09 AM

We had 24cm according to my ruler which is about 9.5 inches which is a good length anyday!! In Coulsdon, Surrey some 8 miles further out, there was 40 cm which is 16 inches.

Now, with the limited number of snowploughs and gritters available in the Croydon area, they have done pretty well to get all primary roots open. As the schools are all closed, I would have though all able bodied boys over the age of say 14 should have been required to report for snow clearing duty!

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:11 AM

3ref said:

""I am not sure the British Empire ,was the greatest the world has ever known.could you explain why you think it was?"

This was not asked of me, but as a fellow Canadian Colonialist I'll give you my slant. At one time in our recent history, the sun never set on the British Empire! I don't think the Mongols, Alexander or even the Americans can make the same statement! "

This is true enough, and one realizes what a miracle that statement encompasses when one actually meets the British!

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:13 AM

Ebbie, yes. All of my kids looked like me as a kid. I think he does esp. because of the red hair and, now, very faint freckles.:-)

To the rest of you, who gives a flying fuck where anything is and whether someone can plough or not?! It's not a permanent situation and why not just have fun with it...stay mellow, drink cocoa, read a good book, do what you must, but chill out (not literally!)

The parks are locked?! Really?

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:24 AM

Yes... in many places park gates are locked at dusk - to save the cost of policing them I suppose.. if anyone breaks in and damages something then they get charged with trespass as well... there are very few truly 'public' parks in London, they're owned and maintained by local borough councils and estates so can be quite legally shut at night or an entrance fee charged for events and displays. Only 'Common' land cannot be fenced off and an entry fee charged.

LTS

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: GUEST,Green Wellies
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 12:00 PM

The whole country has NOT ground to a halt. All the staff in our company made it in - and on time too.

Please do not tar us with the same brush and those lazy individuals to use every excuse under the sun (Ha) for not going to work !

PLEASE REMEMBER THERE ARE SOME OF US WHO, IF WE CANT DRIVE - WE WALK !

Thank you rant over.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 02:39 PM

I read about halfway down and then skipped to the end, so ~ sorry if I'm repeating anything already noted:

It's not the amount of snow that determines whether a locality shuts down: it's how much more snow falls than usual, than people are prepared for. We get an inch or two every 15-20 years in New Orleans. There are no snowplows here, of course, and most people have absolutely no experience driving on any kind of frozen surface. So, when we have a snow day like we did last month, the whole town shuts down (for ONE day).

Washington DC is somewhat further north and gets a bit more snow than we do, but they are almost as helpless as we are when there is more snow than minor flurries, and when the stuff "sticks" and actually stays on the ground for more than a predawn hour or two.

The Obama family recently moved there from Chicago, where they are VERY accustomed to, and well-equipped for, major snowstorms. On about his third or fourth day in office, the President told the press corps that his daughters had to stay home from school and couldn't understand why such a piddling amount of snow caused their school to shut down.

Incidentally, the DC public schools stayed open. It was only the suburban private schools, like Sidwell Friends, that closed.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:25 PM

Agreed, Poppa. The snow we get in Maine on a regular basis would shut down NYC for a week. There, they attach plows to their sanitation trucks for plowing - cumbersome and no trash gets picked up. It gets plowed under.
Here there are real plows clearing the mess as it accumulates. 14" may mean a late opening for some but not a closure. My office closed early (4PM) once this year. No late openings.
The power outage after the ice storm was inconvenient and I took the day off but the office opened on time and stayed open until 5PM despite on/off power all day.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 08:30 AM

This thread is drifting deeper than the snow in London.
Has the rest of the UK gotten their fair share of it yet? Maine had another inch or two last night.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 11:49 AM

It seems to be over in London. The roads are pretty clear but the pavements are deadly with ice. I'm told there's more snow on the way but with sleet and rain so I don't think it'll settle.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 11:56 AM

the London parks were closed for 'health and safety' reasons.

Rother Valley Country Park was open.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7868765.stm

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 05:38 PM

You know - if every single person in England and Scotland, quite independent of each other - filled a carrier bag to the brim with snow.......
















it would be strange thing to do.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 10:39 PM

Last Friday we had small amount of ice under a thin dusting of snow. The police reported 230 accidents in the city alone, never mind the suburbs. And we get snow fairly often.

Slick roads are nothing to sneeze at.

The last time I looked, that island with England at the bottom, Scotland to the north, Wales at the hipline and Cornwall off to the left was called Great Britain. The geographers needed to name it something, I guess.

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Alice
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 11:52 PM

dogs have to cope with snow, too

Subject: RE: Coping with snow in Britain
From: Penny S.
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 06:25 AM

Back to the snow. Back in the dim and distant past, about 25 years ago, maybe, farmers in Kent and Gloucestershire (only places I can speak for) used to put up snow fencing in their fields some yards from the road so that drifts would not form in the road itself. Also, Kent county council would retain farmers to go out and plough their local roads, and you could see the snowplough attachment sitting around in the yard waiting for use. We haven't had winters like those for some time, and as the sensible people keep saying - we can't keep heavy plant around for three days every ten years. Canada and Chicago, if they couldn't do it, they should be criticised, but if we did do it, and then ran out of cash for something more frequent, it would be wrong.

Someone round here, I suspect the farmer up the road, did a bit of clearing, and made a heap which made turning into our road a bit tricky, so i shovelled it out of the way - it wasn't a plough, though, more like a small bulldozer, from the blade marks. Perhaps the retainer idea is still in force.

Town roads are another matter - would you want to foot the bill for the damaged cars as the plough scraped them and dumped them on the pavement with the snow?