Origin: I Will Go / Land of MacLeod

Subject: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Aug 99 - 06:36 PM

I know there have been a couple of great threads on Highland Clearence songs & on this song known as the "Land Of MacLeod" or "I Will Go". Durning a session the other night this song came up & we were all left wanting more info on, like. What war was this highlander to fight in? Who was the King or Lord who's son was doing the recruiting? What land were they being cleared from (Where's the Land of MacLeod?) & by whom? What one of the clearences would this have envolved? When was this & when the song first sung? Thanks for any help, Barry

Subject: RE: Info on Clearance song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Ewan McVicar
Date: 29 Aug 99 - 03:46 AM

I'm fairly sure the song was written by Glasgow actor, singer and playwright Roddy Macmillan in about the 1960s. (The other possibility for author is Jim Maclean.) Roddy is not around to tell us more. It may have been made for a play, some of his songs were.
The Macleod lands were Skye, Lewis and Harris, and the earlier times various chucks of the west mainland. I'll leave it for one of the Highland experts to tell you more.
He did a beautiful job of making the text sound like a translation from the Gaelic. I've heard it said both that the tune is Gaelic and is his own, but I've no expertise in the Gaelic tunedom. As for which war and clearance, I suspect Roddy was deliberately vague, making the song more generic in use.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: karen k
Date: 29 Aug 99 - 04:10 AM

If someone could post the words, I may be able to supply some historical background information.
karen k

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: j0_77
Date: 29 Aug 99 - 04:24 AM

Western higlands :) Hey any one know the lyrics?

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Aug 99 - 12:48 PM

Lyrics for the song appeared on an earlier thread. I don't know how to put in a link, but if you search the Forum for "Land of MacLeod", you'll find it. The Corries recorded it, and describe the song as "Trad. Arranged by R. MacMillan", and go on to say "...a fairly modern song about a weary soldier missing his country...it was arranged by Roddy MacMillan, the well-known actor." I've always thought that it was a "Highland Soldier in British Army" story (note the "Red Coat" and the "Shilling", both of which went with army service) but, as Ewan MacVicar said, it seems to have been left deliberately vague. Same goes for the final verse, which may or may not refer to the Clearances. It's probably a good bet, as Ewan says, that MacMillan wrote the words himself, if not the melody as well.

Incidentally, it's interesting how often the Clearances are misunderstood. Many who trace their descent back to Scotland seem to think that it was the English government that did it; I'm afraid that it was mainly the lairds and the clan chiefs themselves, who should have protected their people. Instead, they evicted them in order to make fat profits from sheep, and from hunting revenue. John Prebble's book "The Highland Clearances", tells the whole ghastly story.

Malcolm Douglas

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From:
Date: 29 Aug 99 - 06:45 PM

The Corries Silver Collection has, as was staed earlier, MacMillan-Lochside Pub. Co. Ltd. as the source. For words I'll try to put them here.

I will go I will go when the fighting is over to the land of MacLeod That I left to be a soldier I will go I will go (repeat) (1) when the kings son came along he called us all together saying "brave hieland men will ye fight for my father?" I will go I will go chorus (2) I've a buckel on my belt a sword in my scabbard a redcoat on my back and a shilling in my pocket I will go I will go ----2 more verses I'll send latter----

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Aug 99 - 07:41 PM

Thread creep, sort of: Do any of you know what part of Scotland any of these came from or are in:

Crawfords -Earl of Lindsay
Ewings
Southerlands?

Know of any songs which mention any of them?

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Susan A-R
Date: 29 Aug 99 - 08:49 PM

There are a number of beautiful and angry songs about the clearances. I'd like to learn more about the time period(s) myself. Weren't some of them slightly after the Napoleanic wars, 1820s??) By the way, There is a perfectly grim song about The Shores of Southerland) about people kicked off their land, starving on the beach while the Duke has set up shepherds in their homes, and has dogs driving the homeless Scots from the beds of mussels so that the shellfish will be available as bait for fishing. My hunch is that my great grandfather came over for reasons other than the clearances, and much later, but I'd like to learn more, nonetheless.

Susan

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Aug 99 - 08:55 PM

Thanks, Susan, I'll go look that one up. My great-great grandma was a Sutherland in Nova Scotia. Haven't traced her back, yet. It's been a lot of fun looking. If you have any ties to Nova Scotia, here is a great place to start: Nova Scotia Roots Digest

kat

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Peter
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:32 PM

The key that the song might refer to the Clearances is in the last verse.

When they piped us all on board The lasses were singing But a tear came to my eye When the bell started ringing I will go, I will go. ... When we came back to the glen the winter was coming Our goods lay in the snow And our houses were burning I will go, I will go. ...

Otherwise the song is about going away to fight, which is the OTHER reason why there are more highlanders in the diaspora than in the highlands.

Subject: Lyr Add: I WILL GO
From: McKnees
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 05:28 PM

I WILL GO.

CHORUS: I will go. I will go, when the fighting is over,
To the land o' MacLeod that I left tae be a soldier.
I will go. I will go.

When the King's son came along, he called us a' together,
Saying, "Brave Highland men, will ye fight for my father?"
I will go. I will go. CHORUS

I've a buckle on by belt, a sword in my scabbard,
A redcoat on by back, and a shilling in my pocket.
I will go. I will go. CHORUS

When they put us all on board, the lasses were singing,
But the tears came tae their eyes when the bells started ringing.
I will go. I will go. CHORUS

When we landed on the shore and saw the foreign heather,
We knew that some would fall and stay there for ever.
I will go. I will go. CHORUS

When we came back to the glen, the winter was turning.
Our goods lay in the snow and our houses they were burning.
I will go. I will go. CHORUS

Yours McKnees formerly known as Knock Knee'd one

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Barry Finn
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:19 PM

Wolfgang left a great link in a older thread (sorry can't do the link thing) about the Highland Clearences that started before the mid 1700's & have brought the pain & oppression right up to this past decade.
Ewan thanks for the info on where the lands of the MacLoeds would have been. It seems that Skye was hit hard around the 1850's & it wasn't uncommon to have the landlords supply troops under the threat of eviction to a whole family if a male didn't go off to fight & only to find that the they were homeless & familyless upon return. If the timing is close then is it possible that they'd have to serve in the Crimean?
Thanks to you all for your replys & interest. I'm still holding out for more one way or the other that this may or may not have been a trad song translated or added to or written by or ? Any more?
Barry

Subject: Clearance song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Philippa
Date: 21 Nov 99 - 04:20 PM

I've heard this song sung in Gaelic and would like to get the lyrics written out.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Lesley N.
Date: 21 Nov 99 - 05:00 PM

Here are a couple of links to great Clearance sites - and I second the recommendation of Prebble's book.

The Highland Clearances (http://www.sirius.com/~macgowan/hc.html)

The Highland Clearances (http://members.aol.com/Jimsutherl/clearances.html) - with links to more.

My favorite Clearance song is Smile in Your Sleep (aka Hush Hush) - words by Jim MacLean, the tune is Mist Covered Mountains. The Highland Clearances (http://www.clan.com/history/features/clearances/)

Subject: Land of MacLeod , Duthaich MhicLeoid
From: Philippa
Date: 21 Nov 99 - 06:26 PM

"Duthaich MhicLeoid" is on the song list at the Macgowan site given by Lesley, but no lyrics are given.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: sophocleese
Date: 21 Nov 99 - 08:15 PM

Lesley N. I've loved that song ever since I won a Cromdale record and heard them do it. Its one that I play and sing a lot myself.

Subject: Lyr Add: DUTHAICH MHICLEOID / THA MO DHÙIL
From: Philippa
Date: 22 Nov 99 - 02:35 PM

Tha mo dhùil, Tha mo dhùil

Tha mo dhùil [or- Tha mi'n dùil] Tha mo dhùil
Tha mo dhùil-sa ri tilleadh
Dh'ionnsaigh dùthaich MhicLeòid
Far an òg robh mi mire.

Fhuair mi claidheadh sgaiteach cruaidh
Crios 'ga chumail suas mu m'mhiadhain
Deise dhearg a chlò nan Gall
Cha robh meang anns a' ghille

Nuair a chuir iad sinn air bòrd
Anns an òrdan bu ghrinne
Bha gach fear ri thè ag ràdh
Cha dèan pàirt againn tilleadh.

Nuair a chuir iad sinn air tìr
A measg sìoban is muran
Thug sinn batal air an tràigh
'S gun d'rinn pàirt againn fuireach.

Thàinig esan, mac an Rìgh
'S e mar aon dhìnn 'sa chuideachd
"An iad so Gàidheil an Taobh Tuath?
Bha iad bhuam 's fhuair mi uil' iad."

Thug na Frangaich an ruaig
Nuair a chual' iad an druma
Thog iad a-mach ris a' ghleann
'S cha do sheall iad ruinn tuilleadh.

translation:

I hope, I hope, I hope to return to MacLeod's country (the Isle of Skye) where in my childhood I played.

I got a sharp steel sword, a belt around my middle to hold it in, a red uniform of Lowland cloth; there was no blemish on the lad. When they put us aboard in the best of order, every man told his girl: Some of us will not return.

When they put us ashore among the spindrift and the bent grass, we fought a battle on the shore, and some of us remained there (i.e., were killed)

He himself came, the son of the King; he was like one of us in the company. "Are these Gaels of the North? I had lost them and now I have found them all."

The French fled when they heard the drum, they took to the glen and have not faced us since.

(for singable translation see "I will go, I will go2 - Land of MacLeod)

Subject: Lyr Add: THE GREAT WHITE SHEEP (from Gaberlunzie)
From: Reiver 2
Date: 22 Nov 99 - 04:30 PM

I learned this from a Corries record, "Strings and Things" under the name "I Will Go, I Will Go" and sung, as I remember with no accompaniment except for bodhráns. I have a single note "War chant of clan MacLeod" in my notebook of lyrics, but I don't know where that came from. The words are as McKnees has them in an earlier post.

Since comments were made in this thread about other songs about the Highland Clearances, I can't resist posting my favorite again. I'd posted it in the "Shores of Sutherland" thread, but in case some of you missed it there, here it is again:

Thanks Susanne. That's great information. I have Prebble's "Highland Clearances." Do you know the song "The Great White Sheep"? It's one of my favorites -- very powerful. I can't really sing it in public as my voice always chokes up and I get tears running down my cheeks.

THE GREAT WHITE SHEEP

Oh Sutherland is a bonnie land,
Beyond the Moray Firth.
And Rosshire smiles at the Western Isles,
The land of Gaeldom's birth.
From Scrabster Bay to Mingulay,
The mighty mountains weep;
For each sad glen has been cleared of men
To make way for the great white sheep.

Kildonan's ablaze and Langdale's braes
Are burnin' tae the skies.
The Factor's men who raze the glen
Heed not the infant's cries.
The landlord's might denies the right
Of the crofter's crops tae grow.
A laird must keep his great white sheep
So his flesh and blood must go.

A Sutherland maid, her clan betrayed
And wed tae an English lord.
She's driven her men from the neighbor's glen
Wi' musket, ball and sword.
Her land she's sold for English gold
While her clansmen throng the shore;
And the great white sheep walk the mountains steep,
Her men will walk no more.

From every glen the silent men
Have a prayer upon their lips;
As they crouch by the sea in poverty
And wait for the white sailed ships.
The Atlantic roar on the rocky shore
Will lull the bairns tae sleep.
No more they'll stand on their faether's land.
It has gone for the great white sheep.

**************

My recording is by Gaberlunzie (Robin Watson and Gordon Menzies) called "Freedom's Sword". (Do you know of them?) It's a great song, very moving and powerful in my opinion. I think you'll like it! It's been a while since I read John Prebble's "Highland Clearances" -- I'll have to get it out and read it again. Are you familiar with his whole 4 volume set, "Fire and Sword: The Destruction of the Clans" which includes "Glencoe", "Culloden" and "Mutiny" along with "The Highland Clearances?

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 26-Sep-02.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Bill Cameron
Date: 22 Nov 99 - 04:54 PM

Origin of "Land of McLeod":

(Very interesting read, the literal Gaelic translation--thanks Philippa. Sure sounds old, that way.)

I learned this --after hearing it many years before--from a thin but quite good little songbook, Jimmie MacGregor's Folk Songs of Scotland. (c 1981) in which Mr MacGregor makes this slightly vague statement about its origin:

"Some years ago, the song was translated for me, from the Gaelic, by the Scots actor Roddy McMillan. I arranged it and used it on radio and television, and it has since become a standard item in the Scottish folk repertoire. Sadly, Roddy is no longer with us, and I am very grateful to his wife Jean for her permission to use his songs."

O.K., so Roddy McMillan translated it from Gaelic to English and thus held the copyright on the English language version. It's still unclear as to who wrote the Gaelic.

Another of those little questions that can drive you crazy!

Bill

Subject: 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Philippa
Date: 22 Nov 99 - 07:26 PM

Note - Suzanne has wisely made a new thread for the song she mentioned about Sutherland. The thread title is "Lyr Add: Shores of Sutherland" and you can find it by doing a forum search or setting the filter and refreshing the threads.

It says in the previous thread on Land of MacLeod that the "The Corries Songbook" cites "I Will Go" as Trad, translated from Gaelic and additional words by Roddy MacMillan.

I take the King's son of the song to be "Bonnie Prince Charlie" Stewart, son of King James. After the Jacobites (supporters of the House of Stewart) were defeated , many went to join regiments overseas. Charles himself fled to France.

The social and legal changes in the Highlands and the repression of Highlanders in the aftermath of the Battle of Culloden(1746) were a prelude to the Clearances. MacMillan's final verse tells what unpalatable sights were likely to meet the men if they returned home.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Amergin
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 02:06 PM

Actually, the king's son may not be Bonnie Prince Charlie....for if I remember right McLeod did not fight in that Jacobite rising...having been practically decimated fighting for the royals against Cromwell...

this is also a refresh for some one who asked about this in a recent thread....

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: InOBU
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 02:25 PM

There is also a great version on the album hung out to dry by After Hours... cheers larry

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 02:33 AM

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't one of the Gaberlunzie duo author the "Great White Sheep"?

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Reiver 2
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 02:47 PM

The record jacket for Freedom's Sword lists Gordon Menzies as the author of Great White Sheep, no date given. He and Robin Watson are (or were?) Gaberlunzie. Does anyone know if the duo is still active? Or either of these performers active individually? Freedom's Sword is the only recording of theirs I've ever come across. bb

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: GUEST,jockmorris
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 04:07 AM

Gaberlunzie are still going strong and are often to be heard around Fife and further afield.

Scott

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 09:20 AM

I am sure the King`s son was the Bloody Butcher himself, the Duke of Cumberland. A verse of the song says,"When we landed on the shore and saw the foreign Heather, we knew some would fall and lie here forever". That would indicate that the Highlanders had to be used as cannon-fodder in one of England`s many wars. A shilling in your pocket was better than starvation.Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 07:40 PM

Reiver2, try Gaberlunzie. You'll find many more recordings there.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Aodh
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:48 PM

Very Interesting! Philippa your Gaelic text is the same as the one I know, The English tune to "I will go, I will go" is close to the Gaelic, but not the same. The Gaelic song was telling about the Gaels fighting the French in Holland (1799) Thus the Kings Son would be one of the Hanovarian Princes. (An interesting fact being that the dispora of Gaels in Virgina and Carolina fought for the Hanovarian Crown durring the American War of Independence. It is something in the Gaelic nature to follow any King, once they have proved they are fit to rule, even if they have caused you some problems.) The author? As far as I can tell its a man called "Leodach" and you don't need to speak the Gaelic to figur out that just means a MacLeod!

Slan leat

Aodh.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 03:31 PM

I cant comment on the Gaelic version, but I should have thought that Roddy McMillan's meningis fairly clear. He is singing of a seriesof three bad things that happened in the Highlads over a long period, and combining them into the experience of one mythical person. The first verse refers to Bonnie Prince Charlie calling out the clans to fight for his father the OldPretender. The second refers to the soldiers sent abroad to fight for the British Empire in highland regiments.The third refers tothe people turned out of the houses and off their land in the Clearances.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 07:44 PM

Perhaps; but that is an interpretation superimposed at a later time; and after MacMillan's death, so we cannot ask him what his intention might have been. Certainly, a great many people would assume that meaning (as evidenced by earlier contributions to this rather old thread), but the fact remains that, if that is indeed the case, it is a modern slant wished upon an old song that, as Aodh has explained, actually dealt with a quite different time and experience.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 08:52 PM

Greg, I doubt Charlie was old enough to call on the clans to fight for his father. IIRR, he wasn't even born in 1715!

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:07 PM

I may have been unclear,what I was trying to say was that Bonnie Prince Charlie in 1745 was acting on behalf of his father, known as the Old Pretender, who was recognised as King James III (or VIII)by supporters of the Jacobite succession. I wasnt talking about JamesII. Charlie's father WAS the king to the Jacobites. I take your point, Malcolm Douglas. But I was referring specifically to the McMillan song, which is a reworking of something older, into a more general comment on some interconnected items of Scottish history. I was not speculating on the meanings or origins of a Gaelic original.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:22 PM

And I take your point, Greg Stephens (do you think we can use christian names now?), but I thought it important to make the distinction because discussions of this song almost always seem to get bogged down in misunderstandings of Scottish history. MacMillan may very well have intended to link the three situations you mentioned, and perhaps to have implied a causal continuity between them; this would however have been simplistic to the point of misrepresentation, as I'm sure you know. The trouble is that many people don't know, and I do worry about encouraging misunderstandings, which, in the case of the whole sorry Jacobite débacle and its aftermath, are already so deeply entrenched...

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:41 PM

Hi Malcolm

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:41 AM

I quite like Greg's reasoning - i.e. the linking of three episodes in Scottish/British history, all of which had the same result for the common folk caught up in them.

This reasoning also explains some of the apparent contradictions in the song that make tying it to a specific time difficult.

I also sympathise with Malcolm's view about perpetuating certain myths and misunderstandings about certain events in Scottish history.

When people talk about "The Clearances", they seem to do so on the premise that the only clearances were in the Highlands, and that those clearances were a direct result of the '45' rebellion - This is incorrect.

The "Clearances" in Scotland started very shortly after James VIth of Scotland succeeded to the throne of England. They were measures taken to rid 'his' nation of troublesome elements - on the highlands/lowlands border of Scotland, the MacGreggors (Sp?) were proscribed and banished, on the Anglo-Scottish borders the Grahams were removed from their lands and transported to Ireland or to fight in Holland. Some made their way back and one train of thought is that this gave rise to a new Scottish surmane of Maharg (Graham spelt backwards).

So "Clearances" in the borders started in the early 1600's, the policy worked for those left behind and the area started to prosper for the first time in about 350 years. The major player in this prosperity - Sheep.

The Highland Clearances started in the late 1600's (after 1689) when Highland landowners saw that there was more profit in livestock than in man-power. This trait continued as described in John Prebble's book. The men were first replaced by cattle, then by sheep and finally in Victorian times by game.

One of the interesting things about the Highland Clearances was that the large landowners did not want their tennants to emigrate. Both Sutherland and Glengarry wanted the tennants to stay in coastal villages to work on, what profitable farming land was available, in the highly profitable Kelping industry and in fishing. Read Robert Burn's "Address to Beelzebub". Scottish emigrants by and large emigrated through choice, mainly to Canada and Australia - no convict ship to Australia sailed from any Scottish port, there are documented departures only from English south coast ports and from the Irish ports of Dublin and Cork.

The sting in the tail, which I think is beautifully ironic is that, the move in Victorian times from sheep farming to game came about because Scots who emigrated to Australia took up sheep farming and undercut home production to such an extent that it became unprofitable.

I have loved reading through both the threads on this subject. Great stuff!!

Cheers,

Bill.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 08:35 AM

"I am sure the King`s son was the Bloody Butcher himself, the Duke of Cumberland." - was Ard Mhacha's contention.

I believe this to be highly improbable. Willian Augustus, Duke of Cumberland was the third son of George II. He was a professional soldier, if not exactly a successful one. He fought during the War of the Austrian Succession (1740 - 1748) and was defeated on 11th May 1745 at the battle of Fontenoy. He was recalled to England to command regular troops brought back to oppose the Jacobite invasion of England. He defeated the Jacobite army at Culloden on 16th April 1746, remaining in Scotland for only three months after the battle. He was then sent back to the European theatre of war.

It is reported that in the aftermath of Culloden Cumberland was for orders. He is supposed to have picked up a playing card from his table and wrote the words "No Quarter" on it. The playing card was the nine of diamonds and has been known as the "curse of Scotland" ever since. Now a man who has just issued such an order is highly unlikely to then go wandering the highlands looking for recruits.

"A verse of the song says,"When we landed on the shore and saw the foreign Heather, we knew some would fall and lie here forever". That would indicate that the Highlanders had to be used as cannon-fodder in one of England`s many wars."

The statement made in the verse would reflect truly the fealings of any soldier anywhere on foreign service. To say that it indicates a realisation of some "cunning plan" on the part of an English government to wipe them out is a little far fetched. In my previous posting I said that I sympathised with Malcolm's wish to eradicating misconceptions. The one I would like to correct here with respect to the history of Great Britain - anything that occurs after 1707 is referred to as British, not English, as the elected government represented both Scotland and England. That is why there is only references in history to a British Empire - not an English Empire.

Aodh mentions above
"An interesting fact being that the dispora of Gaels in Virgina and Carolina fought for the Hanovarian Crown durring the American War of Independence"

Among them was Flora Macdonald, her husband and both her sons. She emigrated to America in 1774 settling in North Carolina, she returned to Scotland in 1779, leaving behind her husband, her two sons and her name to be given to a hamburger chain. When she died, over three tousand people attended her funeral where over 300 gallons of whisky were consumed.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: PeteBoom
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:52 AM

As a follow-on to Teribus' post, I've never held to the theory that "the King's son" was the Duke of Cumberland. I've rather had the feeling that it was more likely an allegorical reference to "the old pretender" - the father of "Bonnie" Charles Edward (who was the grandson of James VI/II). There being levies raised among Scottish (and Irish) Jacobites for service in France against the English "usurper."

Granted, the verse in the Gaelic referring to the French as being seen by us since tends to fly against that. I wonder though if there were not multiple versions at one time and this, the politically safe one, would be the one to have survived. I wonder if another version of the verse with the English army (technically it should be British, true) fleeing was existant at one time but has not survived.

If that is the case, then the "goods burning" in the English version would make sense as a reprisal taken for men fighting against the government in France.

I'm not convinced at all that the same verse is a hard reference to the Clearances of the late 18th and early 19th centuries. I suspect that Malcolm has the right of it in that regard, that they are a later understanding of an older song.

Now, as Greg Stephens suggests it MAY be an entirely allegorical song and stands as originally intended. If one allows for the "folk process", as I suspect, then we are debating a song that has evolved heavily from its original, and we're ALL wrong! ;-)

Pete

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 11:09 AM

There is no reason to think that the Gaelic song was ever otherwise than we now see it; not all Gaelic song contains covert Jacobite references, though some people certainly seem to want it to! The Jacobite "swing" here is pretty obviously an invention of Roddy MacMillan's, as of course is the final (English) verse of the song. There was quite the cottage industry in Jacobite song at the time he made his translation, largely as an outcropping of Scottish Nationalism, though ironically many of the people singing the songs (mostly written long after the event) will have been descended from folk who had either not supported the rebellion or had actively worked against it (the majority of Scots, it would seem).

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: PeteBoom
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 11:28 AM

Fair enough, Malcolm. I'm not entirely convinced that the swing is "obviously" an invention of MacMillan's, but I will agree fully on the point of the whole drawing-room Jacobite thing.

Something my folk band has fun with when we're playing at Scottish games, etc., "Did ya know that 'Jacobite' song was written by a Campbell?" is a great way to tweak the noses of some folks.

Cheers -

Pete

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 02:27 PM

O.k... someone take this bag of snakes and lay 'em out straight for me...

The English Language version?? Is it Trad, or is it copywritten???

If it's got a copyright, who has it???

please?

;-)

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 03:37 PM

re-bump

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 05:34 PM

ker-re-bump

;-)

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 04:01 PM

Re-re-refresh...

Someone MUST know no?

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From:
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 05:26 PM

Clinton, you really have to read the thread closer. See Bill Cameron's Posting

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 05:58 PM

"O.K., so Roddy McMillan translated it from Gaelic to English and thus held the copyright on the English language version."

HELD? Or still holds?????

I only asked because I didn't understand...

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 07:05 PM

And I still don't...

;-)

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From:
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 07:15 PM

Well, from what I remember of discussions of copyright here, it is still held by the person's estate for a minimum of 75 years after he or she dies.

Or are you asking about the Gaelic version? Be nice to hear your singing in Gaelic

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 07:20 PM

Well, Roddy has been dead for some time, but not 50 years, so it's reasonable to assume his heirs have the copyright.

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 07:28 PM

George...

Me? Singing in gaelic? It's bad enough when I sing in my mother tongue... I don't wanna wreak havock in a whole nother language!! LOL!!!

Suzanne... thanks... exactly the straight up kinda answer I was looking for...

Subject: RE: Info on Clearence song 'Land Of MacLeod'
From: GUEST,Jim McLean
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 07:56 PM

I'm afraid i missed out on the thread thing. My reply concerning The Land of McLeod was that I knew Roddy McMillan well and that he told me he heard the song from his mum. He sang his English version many times in the folk club in Glasgow's Trongate (1959/60). His friend Jimmy Reilly and a few of us used to go fishing at weekends and many a song was sung over our cups. Jimmy McGregor emasculated the song in my opinion by prettifying it but then again some people liked that. Cheers, Jim Mclean