BS: Arnold for President

Subject: BS: Arnold for President
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 02:23 PM

Orrin Hatch, Republican Senator from Utah and Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, today gave a speech to the National Press Club. In response to a question after the speech he said that he thought the U.S. Constitution should be amended to eliminate the clause which requires the President to be born in America. He specifically said that he thought Arnold S. should not be penalized because he was not born in this country.

To all of you who are laughing at us here in California, the last laugh might be on you!

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 02:30 PM

We have found the proverbial 'hand basket'.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 02:51 PM

You vil be Terminated!!

Hasta la vista, baby! If that happens, I'm headin' for Canada!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Amos
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 03:15 PM

Nightmarish thought!!! The last time an Austrian aspired tot hat much powert it was because he was tired of hanging wallpaper...

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 03:57 PM

What's the deal with these national players playing in our sandbox? On both sides of the ticket. I thought it was stupid for Davis to be flanked (or fronted, actually) by Clinton.-- What the heck does he have to do with the price of tea? Same with Hatch.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:43 PM

'tot hat much powert'
For close to a minute I pondered the incredible depth of these thoughts: tot = dead, hat = has (Don's 'vil' that I had read just before Amos' post had set my mind to seek a sense in a mixture of German and English):
'Dead has much power', what an Amosesk thought, not giving away its depth and real meaning to the first reading. And, at the second reading, what a scathing critique of the style of Arnold's films and his often a tiny bit clumsy English.

Wolfgang (who by now has done the third reading)

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Amos
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 05:15 PM

LOL!!!   Ach, Wolfgang, my apologies for not correcting my typos!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 05:33 PM

oh, right! I'm sure impressed by anything Orrin Hatch says! Yessir! Does the phrase "to the right of Ghengis Khan" mean anything to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 08:54 PM

Orrin Hatch was a clerk in my father's law firm. Mother said she was scared of him Wise woman my mum.
The good thing is, if Arnold the Barbarian gets elected governor of California, he will be falling all over himself, and wind up looking like an Austrian jackass. Which will pretty much preclude him being president, even if we do manage to change the constitution.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:49 PM

Or make him very attractive as a candidate, LadyJean. It's worked before.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 02:48 AM

Lady Jean, since when did "falling over oneself and looking like a jackass" preclude someone's becoming President?

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 03:42 AM

I think this is a wonderful idea -we could offload Mrs Thatcher , Tony Blair, Graham Norton - the list is endless!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: open mike
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 04:10 AM

the operative phrase here is a quote from 'Arnie himself:
"..I cannot recall.."....after all isn't it a recall that this
is all about and if he himself says he cannot....well I
second that emotion!

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:01 AM

Fuckabunchuvarnold...........My one word on the matter.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: kendall
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:53 AM

California. The originator of trends. Beautiful...fucking beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 08:12 AM

Well, I don't think Arnold is qualified to do much of anything in government, much less be the Governor of California. However, if you take Arnold out of the picture, I do agree with Hatch that this Constitutional prohibition should be eliminated. There are some other people out there who were not born US citizens but might be worth considering for the Presidency at some point. Madeline Albright comes to mind, for one.

Of course, Orrin Hatch probably never seriously considered this issue until Arnold decided to declare his candidacy, so I don't credit him with a whole lot of foresight on this question. Gotta love politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 08:21 AM

Arnold won't really be the governor though guys. You do realize he is just a puppet? Not the man in charge? Just like Bush isn't the man in charge at the White House. Just like Reagan wasn't the man in charge at the White House. The Republican party can't get their neo-cons elected, so they have to have these electable surrogates do the job for them. But make no mistake, Schwarzenegger is NOT the politician being elected. He is merely the electable candidate, as someone above pointed out.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 08:59 AM

Well, I fir one would take Arnold over the current Resident just to get the Cheney/Wolfowitz/Pearle/Rice/Rove/Rumsfeld machine out of my life and my pocket.

And as dumb as Arnold seems in every respect to be, guess who would be his closest advisor?.........

Maria Shriver!

I could live with that...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 09:39 AM

You don't actually have to be born in America to be eligible - people with American parents qualify as well. I don't know if one parent is enough. A GI on Rest and Recuperation for example...

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Peg
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 10:09 AM

I kinda doubt Arnold listens to Maria's advice on anything. I am sure he only married her because he thought her media connections might help him get taken seriously someday as he was biding his time in Hollywood, waiting to take over the world. Heil Hitler.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 10:30 AM

A.S.(S.) is not the idiot that people see him as. A.S.s' has more brain & spunk than most of what we've running around in the White House today. He's also quite the business man & has amassed a great sum of money, influence & power (though not politcial power). He'll will be the puppet of others though. It's bad enough to have a puppet who's an idiot running the world from a Texas ranch on his days off but a smart one's gonna be far more dangerous. He will cost the citizens of "HIS" state many millions in hard cash & will cost the state far more with the policies that he'll back. He has no respect for women & not much more for the rest of the population. He's tied in with & is a backer of Enron (there's 9 million right there, down the toilet), the enviorment will be flushed into the ocean. He'll be the only one left with any energy after the rape of the state, the education system will suffer dearly along with health care & other social programs. He'll help to push the Alaskan wilderness into a deep freeze which may not recover from if the REP's rapists get their way. He will back the exploration of the coastal waters of the West Coast for the purpose of finding more money for big business & oil & that alone will be an un-natural disaster of huge proportions. He's far more intellegent than Reagan which makes him by far much more dangerous. May the force be with you & hopefully you can see a better day by tomorrow. Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 11:04 AM

McGrath, I believe the Constitution specifically states that a President must be a native-born American - now, if that includes a child of American parents born in another country, I don't know. I have always taken "native-born" to mean born within the borders of the country. I could be wrong, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: curmudgeon
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 11:44 AM

The "Native Born" requirement is absolute. Many, many years ago, a governor, whose name escapes me, was mentioned presidentially. His parents were diplomats and he was born at the US Embassy in Paris. He was nevertheless ruled ineligible to become president.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 11:59 AM

Barry, I agree. I think he is much more intelligent than people are aware...I think the accent and the genre of movies he's made put them off.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 12:16 PM

Too bad its too late to run Mickey Mouse, no problem with his citizenship and maybe the line between the fantasy and the reality of the individual would be more obvious to the average voter.

I think if Arnold had had more roles in which he wasn't the superhero he wouldn't have a chance in any Total Recall.....oh I forgot... Bedtime for Bonzo....content of movie probably isn't important....

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 12:33 PM

It's "natural born", not "native born" - and though that sounds like a quibble, it is actually looks as if it makes a real difference, and means that what I wrote above is correct:

Here's an extract from what appears to be a pretty authoritative legal site:

Clause 5. Qualifications

All Presidents since and including Martin Van Buren were born in the United States subsequent to the Declaration of Independence. The only issue with regard to the qualifications set out in this clause, which appears to be susceptible of argument, is whether a child born abroad of American parents is "a natural born citizen" in the sense of the clause. Such a child is a citizen as a consequence of statute.

94 Whatever the term "natural born" means, it no doubt does not include a person who is "naturalized." Thus, the answer to the question might be seen to turn on the interpretation of the first sentence of the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment, providing that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" are citizens.

95 Significantly, however, Congress, in which a number of Framers sat, provided in the Naturalization act of 1790 that "the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, . . . shall be considered as natural born citizens. . . ."

All of which shouldn't affect Arnold's sitruation whose father was an Austrian Nazi, not an American GI. But somneday it might be relevant to another potential candoidaye.
96 This phrasing followed the literal terms of British statutes, beginning in 1350, under which persons born abroad, whose parents were both British subjects, would enjoy the same rights of inheritance as those born in England; beginning with laws in 1709 and 1731, these statutes expressly provided that such persons were natural-born subjects of the crown.

97 There is reason to believe, therefore, that the phrase includes persons who become citizens at birth by statute because of their status in being born abroad of American citizens.

98 Whether the Supreme Court would decide the issue should it ever arise in a "case or controversy" as well as how it might decide it can only be speculated about."

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 12:53 PM

Aha! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 01:01 PM

Well, the good news there is that it rules out the anti-Christ

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 01:19 PM

Wouldn't bet on that. Wouldn't excluding him be likely to offend against the "no establishing a religion" bit?

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 01:24 PM

Barry:

That's nine billion...with a "B".

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Amos
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 05:21 PM

BLOCK THAT KICK!! BLOCK THAT KICK!!


I have voted to leave him frozen in his tracks (Arnold, I mean).

Better Gray Davis and a sober electorate than a mob frenzy putting another movie actor in the Governor's house. Cruz is a more honest politician and he has some experience, at least.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:18 PM

As if there hasn't been enough groping in the Oval Office already.... (had to say it)

GUEST, you are dead right. Arnold is just the electable candidate for the people who stand behind him...like Bush was (sort of electable, anyway). He's also a pretty smart man, I think, but he's still a figurehead if he gets elected. Karl Rove, the Republican whiz kid who got Bush elected in Texas and into the White House, is running Arnold's campaign. Karl Rove would happily run the AntiChrist for president if he was a Republican and was "electable".

You don't get a chance to vote for or against the people who actually run things. Not ever. You will probably never even know their names.

And that's why our representative democracy is essentially a big, ridiculous, expensive fraud, producing irresponsible governments that do not represent the people, regardless of who wins them...sadly enough. Still, some candidates are definitely worse than others, so by all means get out there and vote.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:33 PM

Hi Bev & Jerry, I did see my error in the Billions not Millions, only after I posted. The cost of this recall must be close to that again, no? What ever the cost of the recall is, espically if it's a rep. governor, you'll have to sell the state just to recoup & get back to where you where before this recall. Anyone want to by a state cheap, get it now or later. Later it may not be worth the shit on my shoe.    Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:35 PM

Thanks, McGrath. I couldn't believe that an American mother's accident of birth would make the child less of a citizen than are the parents, and I'm glad to have that corroborated.

I'm sure many an American mother has found herself across the line in Canada or in Mexico when her birth pangs began. I had never heard of there being dire consequences for the child.

Besides which, 'native born' has more than one meaning. Among its meanings is 'belonging by right of origin', as well as 'by right of birth'.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 07:26 PM

But it's not "native born" but "natural born", which basically what it seems to mean is that you are a citizen at the time of your birth.

So the definition of those who are citizens by reason of their birth (and thus eligible to run for President) could conceivably be widened to include people who at the time of their birth satisfied some other criterion. These can vary from country to country.

To be an Irish citizen, for example, it is enough to have one grandparent who was born in Ireland. To be a citizen of Israel you have to be Jewish, (or else born there and not having left it as a refugee). To be British at one time living in "the Empire" was enough, but when too many black people started arriving they changed the rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 11:29 PM

Wow!! Arnold for Obergropenführer.....sorry...couldn't resist.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Amos
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 11:58 PM

I am sorry to say predictions are running in Herr Arnoldt's favor.
We'll see how long that smile lasts....power is corrosive.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 01:45 AM

Yup, and politics is a killing profession that ages people way too fast. Arnold will find it's tougher than making movies, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 02:26 AM

Uneasy lies the head, and all that. Kind of like getting someone's cheating husband- what you've acquired is a husband who cheats on his wife. Getting in through a recall doesn't sound like a long term job.

Does anyone know what kind of education AS has? I realize that growing up in Europe he probably went to university- but what did he study?

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 03:35 AM

Coming soon to a cinema near you,
The Ass-man triumphs,the brain-dead, elected by Zombies.

This is a Holywood spectecular,

ARNIES ASS in two parts come early, come early and see the whole. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Metchosin
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 03:40 AM

he got a university degree by correspondence in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 03:43 AM

Money buys all. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 06:05 AM

Remember that the Kennedy family has a long history of tragedy occurring to their members while serving their country.......so there is hope.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Amos
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 09:39 AM

Jesus, Pat, what a sense of humour ya got!!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 10:02 AM

I want to preface my remarks by saying I really don't have a dog in this hunt. What the people of the People's Republic of California do is entirely up to them.

But let's consider for a moment... There are many politically-savvy, intelligent, well-reasoning people on this forum. How would any of you like it if someone were to say, "he/she can't know anything about politics or government - he/she's just a musician." Not really fair, is it? I don't believe that having a career in music or the movies precludes a person's smarts in other things. I reckon Arnold is just as capable of being Governor as anyone else running against him.

That being said, it will be interesting to see what happens next.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Leo Condie
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 10:36 AM

my judgement was more based on the fact that he avoided all debates and is obviously just a puppet anyway. maybe he does know things about politics but he sure didn't go out of his way to prove it.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 12:23 PM

"And Schwarzenegger himself headed the unsuccessful Bush-Cheney state campaign in 2000 and is known to have discussed his candidacy with George W Bush's top aide, Karl Rove."

http://www.sundayherald.com/37214

And these guys made Issa cry, too.


"The thing that won't die, in the nightmare that won't end."
Total Recall

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 12:26 PM

Leo, I have yet to see any candidate that goes out of his way to prove anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 01:12 PM

A search around the net for anagrams turned up these:

"Arnold Schwarzenegger" gives: "He's grown large 'n' crazed."

"Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Governor of California" gives:
"Warning - crazed Frog Arnie! He can go for voters. O Hell!" (and that one is a handmade effort by Stanley Accrington - a Lancashire folk comedian and no mean songwriter.And clearly a fast worker when it comes to anagrams.

Subject: RE: BS: Arnold for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 01:28 PM

Chalk up another electoral victory for Karl Rove and the neo-cons. Tough times ahead for California.

- LH