BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.

Subject: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST,Muser
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:32 PM

there are impossibilities in life, for instance this thread can only progress not regress, that is, it can't go in the negative.
it wil never reach zero posts, mine is number 1.
Who will dispute me?
Muser

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST,john
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:35 PM

prove it is impossible.
john

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:35 PM

The count on this topic proves it messages 2. I proved it I won.
Muser

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:37 PM

Please delete spam

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:41 PM

Useful advice as ever, Clint, I will delete spam voraciously.

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:43 PM

That is neither theorem nor proof.

I suspect the demonstration lies in vector analysis, but I am not sure how you will show that the incremental value is always positive.

Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: skipy
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:43 PM

Why delete spam? if you delete it the recipe will still exist, so therefore "it" will, I'm pink therefore I am spam.
Skipy

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:53 PM

THis is BS

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: skipy
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:54 PM

Agree, but it is bullshit at it's best!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:55 PM

It is not a philosophical theorem but factual, some things are really irreversible ,just like this thread. It can be stopped but cannot be reversed. It is easy to ascertain this principle,the count has increased,
muser

Subject: RE: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 05:58 PM

Oh.. that's so funny 'skippies'.... both of you.... confusing 'spam' the meat-like food thing, with internet spam... Oh how hilarious.... It's a wonder people with SUCH wits don't win a Nobel Prize for Literature or something.... the whole internet must be laughing it's collective asses off at a 'joke' that funny!!!

Will a mod please move this thread below the line where it belongs...

Or even better, just delete it completely

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 07:18 PM

GUEST of 5:55 p.m. told us, in part:

It is not a philosophical theorem but factual, some things are really irreversible ,just like this thread. It can be stopped but cannot be reversed

GUEST has made a crucial assumption, which could be (not likely, but could) be wrong. (S)he assumes that the normal operation of the Cat will be followed, and that new posts will be added and none deleted.

However, Max, Joe Offer, and maybe others have the power to delete posts and even threads. Whether or under what conditions they might do that is unknown to me, but the possibility is there, so the progression COULD be reversed.

On the other hand, I can't see any way that the total of posts in the threat could be cut back to a negative, so GUEST,Muser appears to be correct. For whatever it may be worth. Not much, say I.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 08:23 PM

But if the thread is deleted, it will still exist in the memories of those who have seen it. The only way to return it to a state of zero posts is to delete it and then eliminate anyone who may have witnessed its existence. That means not only those who've posted to this thread, but all Mudcat members and, for that matter, anyone with access to the Internet.

Been nice knowin' y'all.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Old Guy
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 09:15 PM

It it is impossible to prove it is impossible, that is the proof right there.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Old Guy
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 09:47 PM

Let me try again.

If it is impossible to prove that something is impossible, that in itself is the proof that impossibility is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 09:50 PM

*LOL* Bee-dubya-ell....

Has Joe really got that power? If so, why the Hell didnt he use it a LONG time ago.....*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 09:53 PM

oh, I'd LOVE to this just slowly disappear, one post at a time....


"Entropy will getcha if ya don't watch out!
.......in fact, entropy will getcha if ya DO watch out!"

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST,Muser
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:09 PM

The Old Guy said:
"If it is impossible to prove that something is impossible, that in itself is the proof that impossibility is possible'
Old Guy, You proved that impossibility is posible I can also prove that posibility of the imposssible is impossible.

How that, since you proved to me that impossiblity is possible, that in itself includes that impossibility is also impossible, since you allow room for impossability (impossability is posible, meaning besides impossiblity being impossible it is also posible .) We go back to the beggining of the problem, impossibility being possible along side impossibility, creates another problem.
We have impossibility that possible is possible.Therefore, even that that what is possible is impossible because impossibility does not allow it,
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Peace
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:18 PM

So far y'ain't proved jackshit. Semantic bullshit is just that.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Peace
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:23 PM

PS Your statement that the thread 'can only go forward': Likely you mean downward. Here. Have a nice cuppa and some 3.14159265358979323.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Old Guy
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:30 PM

It's possible.

How do you know that this thread didn't start at the end and were are looking at it in reverse?

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:33 PM

Old Gay

That's not possible because it would be like farting in reverse. There's nowhere for the air molecules to go which how the farting sound propagates. You're just full of hot air.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 06 - 11:46 PM

Old Guy,
it is impossible since counting appleas backword equals the same as counting it frontward.If you had ten apples on the table, count it from the left to the right and you will have ten, also count it from the right to the left you stil have ten, not negative ten, the same goes for front and back. Even if it started backwords the count is stil what it is at the time, and that is 23 with this one,
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:01 AM

Numeric values in the everyday world are "positive" or "negative" only in relation to some artificially assigned zero point. If we use the surrounding seabed as a zero point, the height of an undersea mountain is expressed as a positive value. But if we use sea level as the zero point, then its height is a negative value.

So, all we need to do to create negative posts is to randomly assign the value of "zero" to some post besides the original one. Like this one! That would make the "first" post to this thread number -23.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Old Guy
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:05 AM

Yeah but you put them on the table one by one.

It time were running backward and all then apples were on the table, they would be off the table one by one until there were no apples on the table.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:12 AM

But, mind you, we are not measuring the altitudes or recesses, we are counting tangible things. If you had two brothers and you are the third one you cannot fix an imaginary zero point. You can't say you have negative two brothers oryou are alltogether negative three brothers. That would mean not only that you never existed, which would be zero but even less than non existant (three times non existant. If you speculate that you could use that as a number of your family, than I can still pose an philosophical question. How much is negatis three brothers. Not even zero, therefore you don't exist and your commentarry is non existant, namely fictional,
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 12:15 AM

To Old Guy
Prove to me that time is running backwards and not frontwards as I assumed? I believe it is running frontwards therefore my theorem is still at strenght.
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:09 AM

Not me.

Onward, ever onward.

Forward ye workers, freedom awaits you.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Old Guy
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:28 AM

I didn't say time is running nackwards. I said *IF* time was running backwards.

Are you saying it is impossible for time to run backwards? Prove it.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:31 AM

Bee-dubya-ell...well put, I liked that!

Wasnt it the Romans who had no symbol for (& maybe no concept OF) the 'value' ZERO?

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Peace
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:37 AM

"Are you saying it is impossible for time to run backwards? Prove it."

The onus of proof is on you to prove that time runs anywhere. You seem to be assuming causality. Here's a simple question for you. Why does every hydrogen atom in the universe have the same mass? Why have none lost weight over their life span in this thing you called time?

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 08:39 AM

There are plenty of examples of the thread progressing in a positive direction, but no number of examples constitutes a proof. A single counterexample is disproof. In fact, I saw the minus third post in the recent future.

I agree with what Old Guy says he didn't say. Time IS running nackwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:08 PM

To Paul from Hull,
play of words is not disproving anything. only because romans didn't have a symbol for zero doeas not necesarily mean zero did not exist. Theey certainly knew what nothingness is which is the closest thing to numerical value zero,they could say for instance, I have no apples instead of I have zero apples. Therefore zero existed in Roman times but wasnt captured in a form of a number.
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:11 PM

...Wasnt it the Romans who had no symbol for (& maybe no concept OF) the 'value' ZERO?...

That's 'cos zero isn't a value, Zero represents the absense of a value.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 01:18 PM

To the Old guy and Paul Burke.
By the way the earth travels and the progresseon of it in the universe it is easily to ascertain that time is only going onwards.
In order for time to reverse its course (philosophically) these laws need to be abolished. Even if you found A way to reverse the course of time, our experience does not satisfy that theory. If time was reversed, we wold be reversably aging, getting younger every time, revitilazed, the would be meeeting the history insted of future. Therefore time is moving forward not backwards. Therefore this thread is mmoving forward not backwards, in the strenght of evidence that is laid.
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:29 PM

Bert, you're ALMOST correct.

Zero doesn't represent "the absence of a value"; it represents a value which is empty of a number.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 03:37 PM

Peace told us:

The onus of proof is on you to prove that time runs anywhere.

No, time doesn't "run" anywhere. No more than length or width or depth "run anywhere".

There is space. There are objects. There is change in position of objects in space, and we apply an abstract thought to that change, and "measure" it by time. Time itself does nothing; it's a way of understanding what is.

Thus, time is literally the "fourth dimension"--the first three being the familiar three dimensions, and time being the fourth way we can measure what is.

Dave Oesterreich

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:01 PM

Dave Oestrich has asscertained something that is crutial here, I was going to leave this for later discussion but since he broched this I'll built on it.
Time could be described by a phisical formula and it is dependent on the path of traveling and velocity. Therefore Dave has it right, in actuality it does not progress or regress, it is a measure like there is a measure on a ruler,put the ruler onsome object to find out how much the thing is long. If it si 6 inches we understand the object is long six inches, not the ruler has progressed six inches.
It is a forth dimension and rather different than depth, width and height. But philosophically time means something else,better discribed as progression of events. Even though in actuality time canot go backwards for it goes only in pertaining to fixed events philosophically we can speculate that will go backwards.But then again we find many other obsticles, that annul the possibility of going backwards.We namely, seem to be going to future not past. If time (philosophically) went backwards, everthing would be backwards,not only your aging but you altogether experience. You would be having less knowledge by the moment, less awareness, less responsability. This cannot be proved since we grow in these things.
Therefore this thread is progressing, as time is progressing (PHILOSOPHICALLY), as any attempt to prove otherwise is inane. Dave, thank you for putting in the comment about time.
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Kaleea
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:31 PM

If you cannot hear a dog whistle, does that mean there is no sound coming from it? If you cannot hear the normal conversational low sounds elephants make, or if the equipment to measure the sound did not exhist yet, does that mean it cannot be heard or does not exhist?
Just because one does not have the ability to observe or sense something does not mean that it cannot or is not happening. If the value of our money has gone backwards, why not "time?"

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 04:40 PM

Kaleea,
you have made a mistake, you can observe that time isn't going backwards for its is proven by philosophically that it is going forwards. We observe it going onwards so it is impossible to go backwards. See my commentaries with Old Guy about imposiblity being possible. Time rolls on, this thread too, it can't go in the negative. As far as dog whistle even though you don't hear it it is observable, we know a sound is coming out of it by the way the dog reacts, so we know it produces sound regardless of our inability to hear it.By obsering elephant behavior we could see they hear each other miles away, this is too observable. I don't see a way for us to observe that the time is running backwards 9Philosophically speaking again, not time as a measure which goes nowhere but an abstract time, our experiences.)
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Peace
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:40 PM

"because romans didn't have a symbol for zero doeas not necesarily mean zero did not exist."

BUT, in fact, the 'thing' represented by zero DOESN'T exist. It's a place holder for 'nothing'. Unless we start talking about the Japanese Zero, or the 0 on the keyboard. They exist, as does nothing as a concept or a word--but not as a thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:46 PM

Somewhere, buried deep between the spaces that lie between the spaces of the quanta that glimmer at the edges of spaces that describe particles, there is an instant of genuine zero.

Just take my word for it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Peace
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 10:53 PM

BUT, the zero can't be 'genuine'. That gives nothingness a property, and NOW you've started it all over aGAIN.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Peace
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:01 PM

This of course leads us to the problem of holes.

Holes aren't there at all. They are simply where something was but isn't. Holes in Swiss cheese. If someone cut the cheese in cubes that are a cm per side, it's likely that someone dining would get some holes. But they'd never know how well they ate, even after thousands of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:31 PM

they would know someone cut the cheese however

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:50 PM

to speculators that zero doesnot exist. Even though this is not a subject of my topic (whether zero exist or not that doesn't change the fact thatthis thread is progressing)I will challange even this notion. Abstractly zero doeas exist, we find it in mahematics. fIVE APPLES MINUS FIVE APPLES EQUALS ZERO APPLES, THE VALUE IS ZERO. The guest stated zero altitude, there is zero degrees, and some people's thought amounts to zero (ha). What you are thinking about is vacuity,wholes do exist, those are indentations filled with particles that are invisible to the human eye. Anothe rguest talked about quantum, taht is something even, the phisicisc say vaccum is stil filled with something. But there is an abstract term absolute vacum which is theorethical. Absolute vacum means absolute nothingness and that is where absolutely nothing exist. But whait a minute, black matter, strings theory and so on makes me think, is there absolute vaccum. In instances with apples you can say there is an absolue zero of them on the table if you took them all away, but if there are parallel worlds collinding with our there mmight as well be some apples. So we can speculate wheter zero exist or not, does darkness exist? darkness is absence of light, light defines darkness, if we never saw ligth we wouldn't understand darkness as such, but as something normal. But of course without light there is no life. we wouldn't be existing. we could easily say without a zero there is no numbering, how would one be one if there was no zero. 0+1=1 also 1-1=0 so zerodeas exist, practically philosophically.
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 12:16 AM

Numbering existed in Western culture before the nil was used. BUT, it was clumsy.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 12:16 AM

there are impossibilities in life, for instance this thread can only progress not regress, that is, it can't go in the negative.
it wil never reach zero posts, mine is number 1.
Who will dispute me?

Me. While it might not happen in this thread, it is possible for the thread to have a post deleted and regress. It is also possible for every post to be deleted and the thread to contain zero posts.

Going into the negative is more difficult but I can think of at least one way that could occur on certain forum systems. Some keep a count of the number of posts, adding and subtracting as posts are added and deleted. All that might be needed on such a system is one increment to fail. If you then delete all posts and the count is reduced by one each time, you have gone into the negative.

It might also be possible, depending on the datatype, that if you kept adding posts, you could eventually find yourself presented with a negative instead of a positive number.

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 12:59 AM

Guest Jon,
your answer is not challenging. While we might manipulate it manually in actualiy it doesn't go to negative. One gust already tried this theory but it failed, as one of other guests said, rihtly so, in my memory is stil positive.
Even I can manipulate it into negative by saying this post by putin a negative simbols before it. while puting negative signal before might reverse a number in mathematics and turn it into negative not so with factual things. You can put a negative simbol before five apples but that wouldn't make negative five apples. It is still positive despite our manipulation. Also with this, probably some that have a control over this thread can put a negative symbol in the count (I am rather ignorant about these things)but that didn't change the actual number of posts. So far 49 i think. It is imposible to concieve taht ypu could actually believe that it could in actuality be negative forty nine. Thank you for your efforts though.
Muser

Subject: RE: BS: Impossiblity-prove it is possible.
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 02 Sep 06 - 03:21 PM

Well, theres a whole knot of pholosophy ! Not the first time folk's addressed the wierd side - Mr Barker observes that you can never experience deja-vu for the first time, Tom Anderson's Da Slockit Light refers to something that isn't there - and how can you have "potential destruction on an unimaginable scale ?" for as soon as you said it you imagined it ....
PS . is it conundrums or conundra?