BS: Blair and God...and Obama

Subject: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:51 PM

So, at last he's come out. Had I known he was another one of the religiously righteous he would never have got my vote at his first election. Now we know that we have a coalition of the religious leading the western world into war against the religious coalition of the east. God damn them all!

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:56 PM

Probably already has.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: The Badger
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:10 PM

Blair does not believe in God - he believes he is God - " Let there be shite and there was Shite"

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: The Badger
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:15 PM

Will America come in and restore Democracy when our next elections are rigged by postal ballots?

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: John O'L
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:26 PM

That will be just after their next election has been rigged by Diebold, I expect? Who will restore their democracy?

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: John O'L
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:27 PM

Why, God, of course. Silly me.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:42 PM

It will come back and bite us all.....

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 02:43 AM

Blair has never actually made a secret of his religious opinions.
Strange form of Christianity though
Nominally Anglican
But receives Mass in a Catholic church
But heavily influenced by U.S.Southern Baptists
But effortlessly capable of assimilating whatever "New Age" belief is fashionable with Cherie this week.
Some might see all of the above as being admirably Ecumenical.
I have to say it looks like so many unthought out knee jerk reactions from where I sit.
Unfortunately British foreign policy formulation seems to work on the same principle.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:06 AM

His religion does seem to be remarkably flexible. Something along the lines of "Well actually I'm quite a nice sort of guy, you know".

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:59 AM

He has, at least, been open about his religion. It shows him to be insincere and illogical.

So not at all like his actions as PM then...

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 05:02 AM

Oh God,in whom I do not believe,please protect us from your followers
now and forevermore.
Amen

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 05:09 AM

Heard a good one this week... Blair and Brown... two cheeks of the same arse.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 05:30 AM

The final, final excuse for Iraq.....Blame God.

Blair like all the other believers in "God" as a supreme being is quite mad.

Does it not frighten the shit out of anyone that the whole world is controlled by these lunatics, with the power to destroy humanity..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 05:43 AM

When leaders start blathering on about god then you know you're in the shit up to your neck.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 05:47 AM

So now the all the Jihadis will know that what they always supected was true, this is an anti Moslem Christian Crusade, shades of Richard the Lionheart; who wants to be Blondel?
This I fear, will only intensify the hatred and the killing.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Pied Piper
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 07:17 AM

What really pisses me off is the fact that my taxes are being spent on "Faith" schools some of which indoctrinate children into believing in fairy tails over the truth supported by evidence.
This is no joke we must fight back against this persecution of reason.
Don't forget that people died not so long ago in this country fighting for the right not to have religion imposed upon them.
Lets face it these people are morally self-indulgent cowards who prefer their own mental comfort to facing up to reality.
We owe it to the people that won us our freedoms to oppose them by any means necessary.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 07:43 AM

Isn't this indignation a bit manufactured? Of course Christians and Moslems believe they are answerable to God. This is not a surprise to anyone is it? So why pretend to be shocked or angry? It's not news, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:39 AM

No greg,it's not news.Yes believers believe what thy believe.
I am not shocked just frustrsted & disappointed that,yet again, faith takes precedence over reason.
Also wonder how it is that God's will & Blair's will always co-incide to the nth degree.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:43 AM

Greg, he kept his faith under wraps for the elections. Now having announced his retirement he tells us it was basic to his thinking and decisions. Many of us who see the havoc religion is causing again in the world would not have voted for him had we known.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:48 AM

Agree with the point that religion is at very least a factor in our current problems but feel obliged to acknowledge that Blair has always been open about his faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Tootler
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 11:58 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:52 PM

Actually what he seemed to be saying (in Blairese) is that he believes that God is the ultimate judge he has to answer to for what he did to Iraq, and that seems fair enough. But, if I were him, I wouldn't feel too happy at that thought.

Outside the States I think you'd find that most people with any kind of religious commitment were opposed to that war.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 05:23 PM

Outside the States I think you'd find that most people with any kind of religious commitment were opposed to that war.

Don't underestimate them.

When the London subway was bombed, members of the "Phelps Congregation" were resident in London and picketed within 24 hours to proclaim that it's "God's wrath against the Fags," and that it was "too bad there weren't more killed." They say they're doing it "for God."

Fundies only a bit less loony seem pretty widely dispersed, and deeply embedded in politics where they're not being recognized for what they are.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:21 PM

So I received an E-mail today....tell me what you think and if it is at all relevant.....copied from the E-mail:-
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this Happen?" (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives and being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"   
In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.   
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.   
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.   
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."   
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says   
Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.   
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing?   
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard it, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in or blame God for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:51 PM

Well Georgian Silver, God does indeed say "Thou shalt not kill" in the Bible. He also tells Moses to execute someone for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. Which Moses, being a God-fearing man, dutifully does. he also instructs the Israelites not to eat chameleons or ferrets. He also kills three thousand people for dancing round the golden calf, but doesn't kill Aaron, who told the people to do it.
   Don't you think this stuff is perhaps better kept out of schools? Let's face it, it is rubbish, and more than that, it is pernicious rubbish. Of historical interest, of literary interest of course: but surely not of any moral interest?

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:55 PM

GeorgiaSilver, thats the first time I have ever heard God described as sad. Angry, loving and wrathful, but never sad. You'd think he would be above human emotion, period. I never think of the Goddess as sad. You can keep your sad, old God.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:05 AM

"We"? "Our"? None of the specific points you raise apply to Blair's country GeorgianSilver.
Are we to infer that as well as being sad your God is a U.S. National?

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 07:27 AM

McGrath....What Blair said is not "fair enough", even in Blairese.

He left out of the equation the hundreds of thosands who have died because of his war. Do we feel it "fair enough" that their deaths should be reduced to only a factor in whether the blessed Tony enters the Kingdom of Heaven or not?

And what about the mutilated children who were the result of coalition air strikes on Iraqi cities and caused me many tears?

I dont think Tony has much to fear from a non-existant god, but more to fear from the wrath of a people whom he has stained in the eyes of the rest of the world, by the use of deceit....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 07:36 AM

Blair is weird.

says much that he is the only person who seems able to get elected.

come to think of it - the democratic process turns up some real bummers. perhaps we are doing it wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST,Pootle
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 09:38 AM

"So I received an E-mail today....tell me what you think and if it is at all relevant....."

I think it's bollocks Georgiansilver. Well, you did ask.

From the email: "Are you laughing?". No, I feel more like crying actually at the thought that intelligent, modern human beings still believe this medieval nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 12:47 PM

There are people who want Blair impeached. If he is now guided by the little voices in his head perhaps it would be quicker to have him sectioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 01:54 PM

thats the first time I have ever heard God described as sad. Angry, loving and wrathful, but never sad.

"Jesus wept" (John, Chapter 11)
.................................................

But once again, what Blair appears to have been saying was not, Bush style "God told me to do this" but rather "God is my judge for the things I have done" - which isn't quite the same thing.

Unfortunately there appears to be no ready mechanism by which ordinaery people can get shot of the man. Nor even fellow MPs or Labour Party members. That's what passes for democracy.   God help us.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:04 PM

he's never struck me as a happy bunny

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:13 PM

McGrath - Yes, Jesus wept but he was only the son of God, a real live human being.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Michael
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 05:35 PM

Having read this thread I'm scared!
Oh how I wish there was a god who could make it all right.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 05:37 PM

It's bad enough that Georgiansilver has an imaginary friend - it's truly scary that Blair has one.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 06:38 PM

Guest... no he wasn't!

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 06:41 PM

GUEST? Talking to yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 07:10 PM

Am I hearing voices?
maybe I'm Saint material!

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 07:18 PM

Saint Material??    never heard of her!!

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 07:59 PM

I don't think its very nice calling GS's God an imaginary friend

to him its real, and so is the love he feels for him.

in the same way the love you feel for your children and wife is just as much an intangible.

give tolerance a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 11:09 PM

Blair:
An intriguing and highly intelligent leader, not afraid to get in there and fight for what he believes. He has consistently put a voice to the positions of Gt. Britian and the U.S. and been an important motivator and exponent of the position of the West far beyond the men and munitions that Gt. Britian has put into the Afghanistand and Iraqi Wars.
Talking about religion in public these days is like walking around in paper dress-suits. Takes some guts.
I think at heart people want to believe that if we're going to be shooting at people we've got a moral reason at center.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 02:22 AM

1)Blair doesn't get in there and fight,he sends other people to do so.
2)If you think talking about religion requires guts, what about those who attempt to defend such limited secular spaces as we have at a time when religious fundamentalists think they are entitled to kill in "defence" of thier right to impose their views on others?

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 03:57 AM

Furple Poxx, you don't "receive" Mass, you "hear" it, and if you're that way inclined, "take" Communion. Or at least you did in the 60s when I was involved.

How sould you possibly take exception to a politician who is so obviously sincere? I haven't come across a person so anxious to please since Uriah Heep.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 04:27 AM

In my Anglican youth Communion could be taken or received.
I ought not have transferred that terminology.
Perverse as it sounds, I don't particularly take exception to Blair, I just think that ultimately we all have to choose between faith & reason & I am concerned that the idea that those who have chosen reason have made the wrong choice is becoming stronger & stronger.
We all call him names like we all do with every Prime Minister,but he is a very influential person who,I feel,is being very unhelpful on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:54 AM

He was acknowledging that he had taken decisions that others thought were wrong, and which had led to lives being lost.
He was saying that he stood by his decisions but he believed that he would have to face judgement from his God.
He was not saying that he was being guided by God, only that he believed he would have to answer to God for what he did.

Most politicians act on the principle that a wrong is only a wrong if found out.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:18 AM

So Keith, in this instance you are suggesting that Blair believes he will only be found out when he is judged by God. Not by the views of his fellows or those voters who decide against voting labour in current and future polls.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:27 AM

Van, he is as open to exposure for wrong doing as any of them.
He has been shown to have been wrong over the 20 minute threat.
If he is sincere, he is saying that he believes he also faces a higher judgement with no chance of concealing evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:02 AM

Well, that makes it official. Blair has learned to fake sincerity well enough to fool two Catters at least.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Blair and God
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:08 AM

I said "if"