BS: Racist Capital of Europe

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 05:21 PM

I don't think that was a cheap point Wolfgang was making there, and he put it in context. Racism can creep into any set of people, and it's important to be prepared to oppose it and expose it anywhere it crops up, because we should recognise it as our common enemy, whoever we are, and whatever we believe abvout anything else.

The same is true of its variant, sectarianism, and that can sneak up on people in traditions that may with some reason pride themselves on being racially inclusive, such as Islam or Catholicism. (Some reason, becausde members of both traditions can fall down badly on that too.)
.................
This thread reminded me of the old Northen Ireland joke: "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?" "I'm an atheist/ a Jew / a Muslim." "But are you a Catholic atheist/ Jew / Muslim or a Protestant atheist/ Jew / Muslim ?"

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 05:45 PM

I was once sat in the Europa in Belfast when a bloke whispers in my ear "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?"

"Neither," says I as quick as a flash, "I'm Jewish"

"Boy," says he "I'm the luckiest Arab in Belfast..."

This thread hosts a very seroius comment. But I can't resist the odd joke:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:48 PM

It was a cheap Point scoring exercise by Wolfgang in the hope I would defend those he spoke about because they were so called Republicans.

He has little to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:44 PM

Seriously I doubt very much if he'd have thought that. He'd have had no reasonable basis for thinking that, and Wolfgang always strikes me as strong on being reasonable, even when I disagree with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Colin - Poyntzpass
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:01 AM

Can I draw one thing to your attention. While all racism is disgusting, you are blaming it all on Loyalist paramilitaries. Several weeks ago a foreign cricket team were attacked and chased by residents of the Short Strand (Republican ghetto). Also several chinese visitors were not only attacked in Short Strand but then chased towards the Markets where they were attacked again. They were merely taking photographs of murals. I suppose Republicans thought they were British agents, as those ghettos are so well infiltrated anyway...LOL. The racism is not one sided. In Garvaghy Road (Portadown) the Polish, Latvian and Portuguese workers in Moy Park were intimidated in their dozens so that they went to live on the Tandragee Road....a notable Protestant area...as they felt safe there. If these foreign guests and migrants feel so intimidated by Loyalists, why did the local Loyalist bar open its doors to them and actually allow them to open up a bar/restaurant for the foreigners alone. There are cases of racism on both sides in NI...its just the media only report from areas that they have access to (where they feel safe), which so happens to be Loyalist areas. The media do not just dander onto the Falls Road to take pictures and write stories about racism. WISE UP. There are dozens of cases of racism on both side here...and it is all deplorable.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Robert Allen
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:24 AM

Your post is somewhat wrong Colin.

Members of Indian touring cricket team suffered a racist attack and were terrified after their ordeal.

The Indian teenagers, who were in Northern Ireland as part of an under-19 cricket tour, were left badly shaken.

Five of them were chased in the strongly Loyalist Albertbridge Road area by up to 15 youths many wore Glasgow Rangers tops. Their accommodation has also been stoned.

The Lord Mayor of Belfast welcomed them on Tuesday with a special reception said it's hard to believe young loyalists could do this.

Councillor Pat McCarthy hosted the event for the team at the city hall.

This is East Belfast a strong DUP area.The councillor for the area is D.U.P Robin Newton. So colin it's unlikely that nationalists were involved.


Police have also condemned the incident, and said a racist motive was being investigated.

They called on the local community to show their support for the young cricketers. First to show their support were the Sinn Fein members of Belfast City councill.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Ivan
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:08 AM

Let's face it, folks, Belfast isn't really the capital of anything - and I speak as citizen. We have a long way to go on the racist front before we could catch upwith places like London or Bolton. Or Paris and Berlin for that matter.

There certainly is racism and it does seem to be on the increase. And the vast majority of it originates from the loyalist side of the community. To pretend otherwise reqires either serious ignorance or serious intellectual dishonesty.

I am not for a second claiming that no RC or nationalist was ever a racist. But it will say this; if everyone in the world had the same attitude to other cultures and ethnic groups as the republican movement there would be no racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:27 AM

Ivan, you obviously have not visited London lately.
It has the greatest cultural and ethnic diversity than any city in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:27 PM

racism is rife everywhere in the world. A shining example of "republican" racism is south Boston USA. How many blacks live there? NONE! Why? the last black family who moved in there was burned out. Race related crime is very high in south Boston, and committed predominately by "Irish" Americans who are catholics and support sinnfein/ira. The self same mob who stopped the parades for saint patrick's day because of their homophobic bigotry. And before any of yas start, go round south Boston and you'll see all sorts of murals supporting sinnfein/ira. I thought I were back in Belfast the first time I was there.
How many blacks or muslims are regulars at celtic supporters clubs in Belfast? How many blacks live in republican areas? (whod want to live there at all comes to mind) How many asian or black members attend mass in republican areas? I know several asian and black families who attend protestant services in Loyalist areas.
You call Billy Wright a murderer. You of course have proof of this?
Oddly enough HM courts couldnt find proof of this. Are you witholding evidence?
Everything Ive read on here reeks of republican green-tinted bollocks. Ulster is British. The sooner you get this through your spud thick skulls the better off everyone will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:33 PM

Isn't the racing capital of Europe where they hold the Grand Prix?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 02:22 PM

Good to hear from you Bob. Spoke to Sly in Buckeye last Sunday evening. Sorry to hear about your recent problems. You old fox, check their birth cert, the next time !

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:19 AM

"Ulster is British. The sooner you get this through your spud thick skulls the better off everyone will be."

Ahh, a voice of civility, understanding, impartiality, and deep political & geographic accuracy...

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: JamesHenry
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:09 AM

I met the same bloke poster 05.45 and he asked me if I was a Catholic or a Protestant and I gave the same answer as yourself, "I'm Jewish," I said.

He thought for a minute and then said, "Ah, yes, but are you a Catholic Jew or a Protestant Jew?"

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:34 AM

So original JH, this joke originated on the Ark.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: JamesHenry
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:54 AM

So you were on the ark?

What were you, one of the chickens?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,GM67
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:53 AM

I have wondered on to this site and have read some interesting points and learnt some new ideas. it is my belief that the problems are a diurect response not from religion but from extremism and fundemntalism, this can be linked to any conflict around the world. the way to combat this is through education, educating football clubs that sectarian insults are wromg (as with celtic rangers by uefa) the singing of no surrender has obvious orange overtones yet is is sung by all england fans much to the delight of ill educated bnp wombat 18 fanatics/berks. i believe we should be looking at the youth maybe giving more say to them politically, as i am 23 this is easy for me to say but anyone over 40 seems to be poisened by history. PEACE. excellent discussions by the way. ps can't be bothered to spell check. sorry

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 10:01 AM

You did well wondering on and locating a thread that has been off our list for over a week. Did you wander into search as well ?
I wonder who this could be ?
Let me guess, bet he comes on shortly with a reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,mick
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 10:49 AM

I bucked the trend and moved to Ireland about twenty years ago when there was mass emigration to England America Europe and anywhere people could get work . Back then people used to be rather self-righteous by reports of racism in other countries tending to see racism as purely a product of colonialist mentality. The Irish as a colonized people saw themselves as somehow immune from racist bigotry.
The Celtic Tiger changed all that . I think it was a bit of an embarrassment for many liberal types here to find out that the Irish could be every bit as racist as the British , Americans and Europeans. If you think about it ,saying that your nation is incapable of being racism is in itself racist .
But Wolfgang did not reproduce that Evening Herald report about the three Sinn Fein members racist attack on migrants in full and his comment did lose context thereby . I read the report at the time .In court the three men concerned showed what certainly seemed like genuine remorse -and shame -for what they did. They were roundly and correctly condemned by Sinn Fein and ,if I remember rightly, put out of the party.The fact that the strongly anti Sinn Fein Evening Herald ran that story on its front page demonstrates that accusations of racism do damage to Sinn Fein .That would certainly not be the case with the DUP and people like Willie Mcrea.
I think that ,whatever you say about Sinn Fein ,it is not a racist party. That's the difference between the situations in the north and the south. There are any amounts of racists in the south but racism is not respectable down here and none of the major parties are pandering to racists. Any party that deliberately tried to whip up racism would find themselves isolated .
I hope that remains the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Colin
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 11:11 AM

I am an Ulsterman and a Protestant. I am no lover of republicans, but I have to disagree with you Mick. The Sinn Fein party are trying and I wish the D.U.P. would come on board and allow us to get on with it. The past is the past. Also sadly racism appears to be on the rise within Loyalist paramilitaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 05:40 AM

you're all fucking idiots who don't understand a thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 05:49 AM

Thanks for clarifying that.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 09:52 AM

Divis, you have been giving the response I had expected you to give to my post (that's a praise).

That story was just a chance find in my weekly reading of the Slugger O'Toole website. Lest people misunderstand my motives I have tried to put it in perspective in the rest of my post as McGrath has noticed correctly: One rare story not in congruence with the general picture. If one reads An Phoblacht one can clearly see that racisms has not the slightest official (provisional?) support.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:14 AM

Sorry Wolfgang I misread you. I myself like any right thinking republican hates the ongoing attacks on these people here. Last week saw more attacks on tourists. A German couple in Larne and two coloured guys camping in the Mournes. All were subjected to racial abuse by groups either wearing loyalist shirts or had loyalist tattoos. Police said the creeps who did both attacks entered back into loyalist areas. If I knew of any so called republican who carried out such an attack I would be happy to batter the bastard myself. I also welcome English, Welsh and Scottish to Ireland as they welcomed me. I am not coming down hard on Loyalist only here, but they are the ones behind the crimes I see. As you pointed out here, these bastards that call themselves republicans are scum. Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 01:44 PM

Interesting. I thought racism was confined to the southern US. At least that's what the history books would have us believe. (smirk)

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 02:08 PM

Well Kim if you read about the D.U.P. the main loyalist party in the North of Ireland you will find you couldn't split a hair between them and the klan.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 02:14 PM

Kim C. - Discrimination based on skin colour is a world wide phenomena. Have you forgotten South Africa or the Ethiopian Jews of Israel? Doesn't matter where you go. Lighter skin = privilege and prosperity, generally.

Oddly enough, if you are among the very wealthy, your skin colour does not matter one bit. Politicians use skin colour as a means to divide and conquer. Better to keep the lower classes at each others' throats than to have them recognize their real enemies.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 10:11 AM

I know, Dianavan. I was being facetious. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Cornish
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 10:20 AM

Cornish is my surname you idiot! ahat's your excuse dumbo?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Truro Tom
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 01:08 PM

Guest Cornish looks a likely candidate for the virus vault.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 02:38 PM

According to the news I read, the Orange Order would be safer in Co Donegal - which is the ROI - where being on the dole is not a crime. But then what would I know about it.

Racism in Ireland, it has occured everywhere else in Europe, say nothing about England. There entire cities are so Pakified that white people don't go there, ahem. If Loyalists/IRA do run the odd outsider off - so bloody what. As far as I can see from here, the Islamists who were welcomed into Britain/Ireland have showed their true colors and tis a pity that McCray and friends did not make a KKK party by hanging these bastards a long long time ago.

So I don't think it is as simple as Divis might have thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 07:45 PM

Good clear view there through Orange tinted glasses. Can't speak about what it's like in England Sorefingers, wasn't on the ground long enough, but any people I met here who came in from other countries were fine with me, after all I was visiting too. Can speak about over here though, the news reporters let us know the areas and clans involved. Read up on councillor Fred Crowe a good Orange man and his views about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Adam
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:15 PM

Why is this even on this forum please????

Good to see you catholics supporting foreign migrants - a modern day version of the Scots' plantations comes to mind. I wonder if 4 centuries from now the descendents of you T**gs will be shouting Muslims and not Brits out? Do you know that around half of the pupils attending inner city schools in Dublin come from a foreign background, where's your 'Irish' culture now? Give it a generation of Irish girls butchering their unborn down the abortion clinic, your 'queer' menfolk (ooh, like many of those Muslim immigrants I'm a homophobe and proud to be) not having any kids, and your families disobeying the rules of the Catholic church (afterall, an instiution as grand as that is nothing compared to the democratic votes of semi-litterate, televisual inspired Dubliners, still less the foreigners in Brussels, not London, who decide your entire national cultural and political policies) on Contraception, and your people won't exist. If you're the height of modern 'Irish' cultural attainment, perhaps the sooner the better! Try to do better than posting year-old B.T. articles while you're at it.

And enough slabbering about the Order!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:35 PM

Adam, I think you might be overstating the obvious.

OTOH it does not look too good overseas to see KKK parties hanging Pakis in Ireland, eventhough most Brits might be wishing they had the ???s to go first.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Adam
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:55 PM

And another thing, I've no trunks on. If this is the case that loyalists hate these blackies so much the Grandmaster of the Orange order Dawson Bailie is living with a young blacky so there !

These posts are getting close to the edge of what is allowed to be posted. Anymore references to "Paki" or "blackies" and it will be closed. The discussion of racism can take place without being racist. Mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST,Adam
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 02:51 AM

Please don't use my name to write stupid, self-cliched remarks which are not amusing in the least and factually incorrect.

The Grandmaster is Robert Saulters.

The 12th several years ago was led by a coal-black Ghanan lodge; if you want to discuss 'racism', I suggest you start with 'Brits out', the Republican song 'Irish ways and Irish laws', or even the top cork, the 'Soldiers' Song', and its obviously racist references to the English. No wonder they used to ban you from their B and Bs!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:30 PM

"Please don't use my name to write stupid, self-cliched remarks"

I'm afraid when you post as a GUEST there's no way to escape that risk. That is one of the advantages of being a member. (And there are no disadvantages to set against that!)

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:15 PM

The Office Of National Statistics has estimated that at least 10% of the population of Britain were born elsewhere.
Can any country in the world compare?
Credit where it is due. We are the multicultural, multi ethnic, multiracial captal of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist Capital of Europe
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:34 PM

Good point Guest. I myself welcome Ireland becoming multicultural, multi ethnic, multiracial. I have met so many nationalities over the past few years here and we have so much to learn from these people.