BS Threads and Google

Subject: BS Threads and Google
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 May 04 - 10:20 AM

It is worth noting that BS Threads are now appearing in Google. The "American Soldiers Torturing Iraqis" thread is the very first reference in Google (I typed in "American Soldiers Torturing"), even before CBS News (!!!!!), and a hundred other headlines from major news outlets following.

I think this explains why we are getting all kinds of "outside callers". I don't know if anything should be done about it, but it is worth pointing it out.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 May 04 - 10:28 AM

I also noticed that google has expanded it's reach into the depths of our forum with links to photos which it didn't used to have. Max's relationship with the google people helps him but I don't see it helping us any. Frankly, I'm afraid of the scrutiny. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if our forum was one that was regularly watched by the FBI, NSA, and other organizations charged with carrying out the terms of The Patriot ACT. (But then, I have been accused of treason and torturing people with my autoharp) harpy

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 May 04 - 10:39 AM

Anyone investigating you already would have your picture, etc. long before reading your posts on the 'Cat. Besides, you haven't posted anything seditious, only critical of US policy and the President.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 May 04 - 10:43 AM

I know Rapaire, but the line between sedition and free speech seems to have been blurred considerably by TPA.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 10:45 AM

I also posted this message to the aforementioned thread:

PeterT, if you typed in the exact title of this thread, or the beginning of it, and it is the only title/string of words that is an exact match, then it will of course come up first in a google search. You could do this for any number of Mudcat thread titles.

Perhaps you aren't clear on how the google search engine works?

Also, anyone who thinks that the messages they post at Mudcat are beyond scrutiny to the public through google is mistaken. The first hit in a google search with the word 'mudcat' brings up links to the homepage and the forum. It has always been thus, and isn't just a result of Max linking to google.

And PeterT, though I am a guest, I'm not a newcomer. I have posted here on and off, for years. I'm not clear on what information you are basing your perception that Mudcat is currently undergoing an invasion by godless Mongols.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Deckman
Date: 01 May 04 - 10:47 AM

Here we go ... McCarthyism, all over again???

I, for one, refuse to give into the paranoia of living in these times. Certainly the so called "Patriots Act" is a chilling thing. But, having lived through, and survived very well, the scary political times of the 50's, I won't go there again.

We are an open society and I intend to do everything possible to keep it that way. I will continue to criticize my government whenever I feel such criticism is warrented. And I will also praise it whenever I feel like it.

If the FBI wants to visit me, again, I only ask that they get the right yellow house and don't frighten the neighbors. CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Max
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:00 AM

The proliferation of valuable information and informed opinions is a good thing. Google's indexing technology is the best there is, and based on sound science which is why they are such a popular search engine. The fact that we are showing up in searches is a reflection of the quality of information we have here, not the "relationship" I have with them.

Besides, I've been working with the NSA for some time now. They think that as long as you are home posting to a Web site, you are no threat to the country.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:00 AM

Godless Mongols? Wheah??? I GOTS to seeum!!


A

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:02 AM

Well, I don't want anyone to think I don't admire Max and his prodigous abilities and many fine qualities. I just wish, rather naively I know, that we were better protected from complete scrutiny.

I do agree with you, Bob about not giving in to the paranoia. I just hope that in the future, this forum won't be used against us if McAshcroftism takes hold like McCarthyism did.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:05 AM

And Max...remember what happened to Ferdinand Magellan!!!! LOL and gulp!

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:05 AM

"Besides, I've been working with the NSA for some time now. They think that as long as you are home posting to a Web site, you are no threat to the country."

Yeah sure, until they get the list of books you've been reading from your local library!

"If the FBI wants to visit me, again, I only ask that they get the right yellow house and don't frighten the neighbors."

Been there too. The only time I was ever truly frightened as a citizen though, despite government scrutiny of my activities, didn't have anything to do with what I was doing or the federales doing when they spied upon me and my terrorist colleagues in the NEA, the peace movement, and probably our neighbor action to stop the freeway expansion going in through our neighborhood, was when I heard the US was closing the borders on 9/11.

Anyone with experience of closing of borders knows why.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:10 AM

Guest, I am more than aware of what Google does, and nowhere do I say anything about godless Mongols (being a Buddhist myself, I am probably more akin to that Buddhist people than many others here). I was pointing out that Google (as harpgirl says) references thread titles, and not just the overall site references; and putting them atop others. Maybe the priorization is a change -- it may well have been occurring for a long time, I have not been paying that much attention to Google. I thought it might be worth pointing out how powerful Google is.

Personally, it will make me rethink how I title threads I start.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Deckman
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:12 AM

MacAshcroftism!!!!! I LOVE it. Bob

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:34 AM

PeterT, it isn't my fault you embarrassed yourself, so why are you directing your remarks at me?

Hell, if you're a Buddhist, I'm sure you can suck it up, and handle an ego wounding now and then, right?

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Ed.
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:42 AM

Google's indexing technology is...based on sound science...The fact that we are showing up in searches is a reflection of the quality of information we have here

Come on Max, that's not quite right. Google's PageRank™ is certainly a great idea, but there's nothing scientific about it. The well known example of a search for Weapons of Mass Destruction and what the top match (still) is, shows how easily Google's system can be (even unconsciously) manipulated.

Whilst the mudcat certainly contains a lot of quality information, it's surely the fact that it's popular that helps in Google searches, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:54 AM

And I don't know that the BS section is exactly where the quality information on this website lies...

And I'm a frequent enough contributing time waster to it to know that it isn't exactly high end political discourse from knowledgeable people.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:58 AM

Guest, why not type "Moron" into Google, and see how high up the list you appear? I am sure you will be somewhere in the top ten.

yours, Peter T. (godless Mongol)

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: CarolC
Date: 01 May 04 - 11:58 AM

The top four or five hits in that search are internet fora. I find that this happens quite a lot when I do searches. Most of the time, I don't bother reading them when I'm doing a serious search for information, and I suspect that a lot of other people probably treat them the same way.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 01 May 04 - 12:14 PM

The fact that we are showing up in searches is a reflection of the quality of information we have here

I don't think the *quality* of the information is the key factor in a Google search. I just did a search that combined "rubbish" and "golf" and got 76,700 hits. Mudcat was #1.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 12:16 PM

Tsk, tsk PeterT. Not very Buddha-like, now are we?

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Ed.
Date: 01 May 04 - 12:19 PM

golf rubbish

My point exactly, Backstage Manager

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 12:41 PM

Google's top 10 moron hits

Now be a good sport there, PeterT. You know someone was going to answer your challenge. I know you'll be disappointed that there isn't any mention of Mudcat guests, but I'm sure you'll get over it.

I must admit, I am pleased by the number one result, though. Happy reading folks.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:02 PM

Something we can agree on! yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Max
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:27 PM

While "Is Golf Rubbish?" may not be the most important topic to need to find, think of important song data or even timely OBIT threads. A folk/blues/trad news item happens, and here are thousands upon thousands or educated and experienced enthusiasts publishing legit data in real time. We live in this world, we know these people, and we love it. Who better?

I find it rather fascinating that the people I have most respect for and find most enjoyable (Mudcatters) are showing up in the searches for non music subjects like "American Soldiers Torturing". Can't you see the power we have? Our take on the issues has priority over legitimate news organizations as far as Google is concerned. Google is the most popular search engine on the planet. I think that is hilarious.

With the state of news organizations in America now, with all the sensationalism and all, I find the Mudcat a more valid source anyway. I think its perfectly appropriate social commentary. Plus I think we can have some fun with this.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Blackcatter
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:34 PM

As for the connection with Google ads and Mudcats info being on Google - Google does run searches on their ad sites (I know, because my private website uses Google ads too), but they run searches everywhere. Mudcat & other Google affiliates just have their info updated more often in the seach engine. It doesn't get special precidence (at least Google doesn't admit to that) to those sites, they're just more up to date - which is why recent Mudcat stuff will be on Google.

Shameless plug (hey - it is a lyric site):

Blackcatter's World of TV Theme Lyrics

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: CarolC
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:36 PM

With the state of news organizations in America now, with all the sensationalism and all, I find the Mudcat a more valid source anyway. I think its perfectly appropriate social commentary.

I agree with you there, Max.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:50 PM

I agree Max....The joint is a treasure-trove of folklore. "Cleigh O'Possum" gets 10 hits!! And if you enter, Max, Spaw, kick in the balls, you get this result. Far out huh? This is really important stuff and needs to be out there for the ages!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Franz S.
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:52 PM

Hey, we haven't had any privacy for at least 20 years. Any major marketer worth its salt knows more about me than I do, and I get all warm anf cuddly thinking about how much my government cares about me and my actions. Or comments.

We can't keep them from finding out whatever they want to find out, though it's more than appropriate to throw whatever little roadblocks we can in their way.   But we need to do some serious thinking about the protocols, etiquette, and basic philosophy of living in a world without privacy.   "If you have nothing to hide, don't worry" is not sufficient.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:55 PM

Ferdinand had power too, Max...

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Max
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:58 PM

Harpy, I am ready for that fight.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 May 04 - 01:58 PM

I just tried putting the heading of this thread up in Google, with with and without quote marks, and it didn't show up. Then I tried with one thta's been around a bit longer, "BS: Are the Celts Rubbish ", and that didn't show up either. So the googlification hasn't extended to cover everything here yet.

My own concern wouldn't be about surveillance - I always assume everything is under surveillance anyway. But what I value about the Mudcat, and what gives discussions a kind of ballast, is that we have come here primarily because of the music, and beneath our disagreements about various things, there is that common basis of agreement (even where we might disagree about the music as well, we agree think it matters). If we lose that, we lose a great deal.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:01 PM

LOL...good one, PeterT, you godless Mongrel, you!**bg**

Max, I agree, mostly.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:08 PM

Amazing. A serarch for Popular Views of the Bush produces four pages of results and ALL of them are from Mudcat.

A

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:09 PM

I hadn't thought about infecting the Google with Mudcatiana! Max, you remain a man after my own heart.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Ed.
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:20 PM

Can't you see the power we have?

I trust that you're joking?

Our take on the issues has priority over legitimate news organizations as far as Google is concerned

which certainly suggests the Google's 'sound science' is a little unsound.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:22 PM

Max, Ferdinand drew and quartered the mutineers, but when they got the Phillipines, he ended up being snail food on some Phillipino beach!

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Blackcatter
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:28 PM

One thing to remember is that many people already have chosen their discussion boards that they're addicted to. While we can do searches like the ones list above - how many people other than 'Catters are?

I mean - who in the hell is going to search for golf & rubbish? Ye Gods!

It's still the music discussions that will be the primary route to find Mudcat. And considering that the number of BS threads has not risen significantly since Mudcat started separating them out of the main, I'd say that more Google conenctions aren't meaning all that much.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:34 PM

Ed, apparently you haven't been around here for long. He is serious, and he does have that inflated of a sense of self-importance, which is shared by his boot licking minions.

That said, he'll get pissed now, and likely block my IP for a few weeks to punish me for saying again that the emperor has no clothes.

McGrath, I suggest you learn more about the google search engine, as you seem baffled as to why your thread titles don't work the way 'American Soldiers Torturing' works.

On second thought, maybe you should just leave well enough alone, and let the man behind the curtain tell you everything you need to know like the Mudcat core devotees do.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:40 PM

What I would like to know is, WHAT HAS THIS THREAD GOT TO DO WITH MUSIC?

Should it not be under BS, or am I getting (even more) totally confused,

Hmm, it must be the age thing.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Ed.
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:43 PM

GUEST 02:34 PM,

I've been around here for several years. That's the only thing that you got wrong.

My IP address was blocked once, too.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:45 PM

I suggest, Guest, that your jealousy is showing its ugly face again -- either that, or you are an unrequited and passionate admirer of Max; being spurned can be very painful, I am sure. Many of us share your pain...

A

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:52 PM

"...the man behind the curtain " - a fair description of a nameless GUEST. No I wouldn't take much account of anything from one of those.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:53 PM

A fellow traveller, eh Ed? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Ed.
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:56 PM

Just a normal person, I think

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 04 - 02:59 PM

"Fellow traveller":

Meaning
    Someone sympathetic toward a certain point of view without being a fully paid-up member of the club.

Origin
    First applied to people who inclined toward the views of the Communist Party. Coined by Leon Trotsky.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Amos
Date: 01 May 04 - 03:01 PM

wilbyhillbilly :

Sure, it is not music. But sometimes threads about Mudcat itself are left above the salt since they are germane to the folk-forum process.

I suppose it is a judgment call, is all.


A

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: Ed.
Date: 01 May 04 - 03:05 PM

Not really sure what you mean.

I do think that Max has a tendency to be full of himself, but that's all

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 01 May 04 - 03:06 PM

Thanks Amos, something else I have learned, just glad its NOT my age thing.

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 01 May 04 - 03:10 PM

Now I AM totally confused, cos its now under BS. I give up, in future I'll just keep my mouth shut and mind my own business.

I will now go in a corner and sulk

Subject: RE: BS Threads and Google
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 May 04 - 04:28 PM

Max has a tendency to be full of himself

Being "full of yourself" as a knocking comment is an odd one, when you think of it.

After all, generally speaking, whatever is inside anyone's skin is "themself" (leaving aside pregnancy and indigestion).