its a sad day for Iceland .

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 06:50 PM

Skarpi, you are Viking. Like myself, the blood of the Vikings flows in your veins (although mine is somewhat diluted by the Germans and the Dutch). Your ancestors, like mine, came to a new land where they thought they could make a better life -- and they did.

These people who robbed you and everyone else are without sæmd. They should be dealt with as such.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 07:58 PM

Rap, you sound as though you are advocating violence?

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 08:02 PM

Maybe it's ironic that many reports on the actions of the people who brought about the collapse of the Iceland financial 'bubble' refer to them as having the 'Viking Mentality'

A female professor of politics Silja Bara Omarsdottir told one reporter
"These young men were living the way of the Vikings, going out and pillaging, and this is something women wouldn't do."

Iceland now has a female prime minister, and women lead two of its major banks.


Since April there have reports of thousands of secret bank accounts in Tortola and elsewhere containing funds looted from the banks in the days immediately preceding their collapse.

I think I should point out however that Tortola, the principal island of BVI, is actually in the Caribbean and its official currency is the US Dollar.

It is very unlikely that any Iceland banker would get a warm welcome in "some Island near UK"

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 10:44 PM

No. I think that they should be shunned, completely shunned. Returned to Iceland and never to leave, but shunned by all.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 11:09 PM

The more one looks into it, the more it seems there are some very slimy players in this entire world-wide financial melt-down. I see Iceland as a collective victim.

                How would one get to the bottom of it? Henry Paulson and the Obama secretary of the treasury are products of Goldman Sachs--the one big winner in the whole thing.

                Why would the perpetrators pick on Iceland?

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM

Emma , Baugur group , is in London and still is workin there and in the UK banks , Jón Ásgeir Jóhannesson is one of biggest owner of Baugur group and they all live in London Area , and he is one of the
men who ropped us .

he´s on the list .

fight or leave that s the word I have in mind right now
I will think this through until autumnn .

kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 11:30 AM

Skarpi,

Can't these people be extradited back to Iceland and held accountable for their actions? It seems to me that any country which allows them to live in it is as dishonorable as they are.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 12:36 PM

Rapaire: Re: blood of the Vikings flowing in your veins and such, seems kinda ironic you're complaining about other folks doin' a bit of pillaging? ;-)

(I saw Kirk Douglas in "Vikings", after all!)

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 01:08 PM

Vikings did it honestly and were up front about it. My old family motto tells it all: Pillage and rape FIRST, then burn.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 02:05 PM

When Prairie Home Companian went to Ireland Garrison Keillor made a comment about red hair being the Scandinavian's 'gift' to the Irish.

The room grew very quiet.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM

No country embraced the excesses of the credit bubble as zealously as Iceland but, unlike many of the other nations that went mad for credit, it has lots of things going for it: an average age of 37, a highly educated work force, a nearly positive birthrate, overfunded pension schemes, and abundant natural resources
-Reuters Mon Jun 29, 2009



Few Icelandic businessmen burned out as spectacularly as Jón Ásgeir Jóhannesson

Mr Johannesson, was once a celebrity figure in Iceland, having built his father's financial empire from a cut-price domestic supermarket chain called Bonus into the multi-billion pound retail empire, Baugur.

"The Vikings" had risen again -
this was the admiring title the country bestowed upon the small group of very aggressive businessmen whose high-risk investing bloated the island's economy to 10 times its GDP, buying up chunks of the British and Continental European high streets in the process

But, on 17 August 2005, Jón Ásgeir was charged by a court in Reykjavík with 40 counts of breaking the Icelandic penal code, Accounting Act, Annual Accounts Act and Companies Act.
Most of them are related to transactions between him and Baugur.

The Supreme court sent most of the charges back to the Reykjavik district court in the fall of 2005 on the base of technicalities.
The Supreme court made its final ruling in the case in June 2008. Jón Ásgeir got three months suspended sentence although he won public support in Iceland during his lengthy legal battle there.

Following the three-month suspended sentence for false accounting he was disqualified from acting as a director in Iceland and moved the company to the UK.

Baugur fell into administration in February this with estimated debts of more than £1bn, after one of its lenders, Landsbanki, called in a loan.

Like the other popstar 'Viking' businessmen Jón Ásgeir
will have a lost small fortune when his stakes were wiped out during the nationalisations, but few Reykjavik residents have sympathy for those they partly blame for breaking the banks.

"A presenter on an Icelandic TV channel was the first to air this resentment in the only interview Jón Ásgeir has given since the start of the crisis.
"Why won't you sell your penthouse apartment in New York and your yacht?" he asked. "Sell the assets, give the proceeds to the government and take responsibility for this."

Jón Ásgeir maintained he is no longer financially secure for life and played no part in the risk-taking strategy of the banks. But he failed to convince many Icelanders.
"We are angry with the billionaire owners who ran the banks and pretty much everything else in this country and have now disappeared in times of trouble," says editor Bjarni Brynjólfsson, in the English-language Iceland Review.
"We are angry with the authorities who did not step in and demand some securities from the conglomerate banks to prevent this economic meltdown from happening.

"We are angry with ourselves for being foolish and for not having listened to the voices that warned us about the recklessness of the banks."

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 06:01 PM

Rap, you ask :

Can't these people be extradited back to Iceland and held accountable for their actions? It seems to me that any country which allows them to live in it is as dishonorable as they are.

the answear is :

No is not , why becouse there is no law that say that we could do this in Iceland ?? and that is strange .
The coverment are suppose to build up those law , but they cant put them on , why ?? becouse they are involved in this crisis , the politic people that is .

so , our bad luck Skrúmp !!!!

kv Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 06:50 PM

"The coverment are suppose to build up those law , but they cant put them on , why ?? becouse they are involved in this crisis , the politic people that is ."

but change is on its way from Iceland's new government .....


Norwegian-French magistrate Eva Joly, famous for her global fight against financial corruption, was hired as a consultant to Iceland's Ministry of Justice in March to assist on the investigation into the events leading up to Iceland's economic collapse.

It has emerged that the son of Iceland's Attorney General is one of two CEOs at Exista, which was one of the major stakeholders in Kaupthing Bank.
And all cases sent from Iceland's special banking collapse investigation committee for prosecution have to go through the Attorney General.

In a television interview in mid June, investigation advisor Eva Joly expressed her own growing displeasure at the progress of the investigations and her view that that the Attorney General must step down due to family connections which made him 'unfit for his position'

However shortly afterwards Attorney General Valtýr Sigurdsson announced that he was not planning to resign from his post.
Joly's demands are unclear and he doesn't see the purpose in complying with them, Sigurdsson stated.

The attorney general is appointed the office by the minister of justice with no term limit. He or she is not dependent upon anyone else in his or her work and the attorney general cannot be ordered to leave the post.

It is therefore Sigurdsson's own decision whether he steps down or not

He stated no meeting was planned with Minister of Justice Ragna Árnadóttir Minister because of Joly's request.

However, Árnadóttir has stated that she is planning to discuss this matter with Sigurdsson, hoping to find an acceptable solution.
"The attorney general is the highest-ranking official of the prosecution and he decides whether he is unfit or not. I cannot decide." she said

Prime Minister Jóhanna Sigurdardóttir said at parliament yesterday that she supports everything Joly has suggested.

"I also support what she says in regard to the disqualification of the attorney general and that has to be dealt with. The minister of justice is preparing a bill so that it can be dealt with as Eva Joly is requesting. I consider this a fundamental matter," Sigurdardóttir stated.

- Iceland Review online 12/06/2009

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 09 - 09:45 PM

Skarpi, can't the people call the Allthing into session and demand action?

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 05:02 AM

first all Emma , what the coverment is doin is not good eneough
, they have totake these men into prison so they cant go away
that has not been done .
they have had many months to take all papers that matter
for them and let it go away ,sorry this coverment is useless
and this autumnn we will see , things again , peopele are angry
and we will not let this coverment go on , they are not doin eneough
they have to go .

well stand up and fight this coverment in the autumnn .

skrúmp!!

kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:05 AM

You know, Skarpi, I don't think I'd want to be in the Icelandic government this autumn. It's just a guess, but I think I could find myself out of a job.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM

former Viking heroes seen in Reykjavik

You might well feel that the financial raiders of Iceland are taking the piss with penthouse flats in New York and yachts but......

In order to extradite someone to their home country you first have to prove actual criminal actions - just entrepreneurial risk taking with other people's money is not enough unfortunately.

This is exactly what the current government is attempting to do with the appointment of Eva Joly, famous for her global fight against financial corruption, despite the oppositin she, and the government, have met from the supporters of the previous regime.


Skarpi, I'm not sure what you want to 'fight' your Democratic government about unless it's just their decision to enter into negotiations with the EU - even then, with the option of a referendum before any action could be taken!
Why would you wish to bring the new government down - to return to the totally discretited rule of the previous government who were in bed with the banks?

Or is it all "full of sound and fury; signifying nothing." ?


"Iceland's new centre-left government, which took over after its predecessor fell amid protests over its failure to avert the crisis, has begun the task of cleaning up the mess left by the meltdown while applying for an EU membership it hopes will provide economic stability.

Restructuring the banking sector and repaying creditors are seen as key to reviving an economy in the clutches of a deep recession and placating the International Monetary Fund and others that have pledged $10 billion toward Iceland's recovery

Icelandic Business Affairs Minister Gylfi Magnusson told a news conference the government would put safeguards in place to prevent the new banks from acting as the old ones had done."

Reuters Mon Jul 20, 2009

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 03:42 PM

Emma its not about the the building up the banks , its about
put those basters to jail , at once .

and this coverment is not doin anything that works for those who have and are about to loose everything , just becouse some men made the biggest theft in Iceland .........


its so slow motion , we cant wait , many thousands of people
are leaving becouse the coverment is not doin enough .

all the best Skarpi .

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 04:03 PM

Another investigation with the same players:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5533984/Icelandic-police-investigate-FL-Group.html

Skarpi,
There is a great moment in the movie The Wizard Of Oz when the witch is ready to kill Dorothy but hesitates with "These things must be done delicately." Be patient my friend - Not quiet but patient. And don't expect that all the bad guys will be punished. They won't. Take a deep breath and figure out YOUR next move. Life goes on and it will with you or without you. In time, things will level out and you need to have a plan for yourself and your family.
Be angry - you have a right to. But be prudent about your future too.
And if you move, come to the US. When it comes to political corruption, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
Love,
mary

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:26 AM

oh dear ..........


úff

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 09:15 AM

How come everybody's an expert on Iceland's problems all of a sudden? We can all Google for facts, but none of us live there, so we don't really know what it's like.
As for bitching, at least he has something real to bitch about, and not the imaginary affronts, some people specialise in.

JM

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 02:20 PM

But it's a lot easier if someone does the research for us and I am grateful to those who contribute here for expanding my knowledge. As for knowing what goes on in your own country I never feel that is the case. All too often outsiders know more about what's going on as they are not being bombarded with government propaganda. In these times many of us have plenty to worry about and whilst the Icelandic situation is dire, many have been directly affected by the results of bankers greed and malpractice.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 02:43 PM

As I've never pretended to be any kind of 'expert' on Iceland and indeed sourced all my contributions, I'll assume any snide comments are not directed at me personally.

However, neither am I an insular nationalist who has no interest in affairs outside my own country; and, in addition, I have a very real interest in the current Icelandic government's decision whether to repay the debt to foreign savers in the failed Icelandic banks as they were obliged to or to reneague on this as many wish them to, as part of my pension probably depends upon the outcome.

In view of the many comments from outside the US on the recent election and appointment of a new president and administration who, like the present government of Iceland, promise change I thought mudcat was a forum for discussion of all world events that concern us

What I hope I added to any discussion was an attempt at 'balance' - to demonstrate that there is more than one subjective view coming out of this beleaguered country struggling to use its newly elected Social Democratic government (which was only formed in February this year) to uncover any fraud and stabilize the currency.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 02:53 PM

What I hope I added to any discussion was an attempt at 'balance' - to demonstrate that there is more than one subjective view coming out of this beleaguered country struggling to use its newly elected Social Democratic government (which was only formed in February this year) to uncover any fraud and stabilize the currency.

well that s what I hoped for , but it has failed .

kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:12 PM

Well skarpi maybe, as in America, you really have to give people time to enact the legislation required to bring about these changes and find any evidence that may (or may not) exist in order to bring charges against your 'Viking raiders' - after all the previous government had 18 years in which to screw up

In addition, perhaps slightly less doom laden hyperbole about any advantages, or disadvantages, full admission into the European Union would bring about - even IF the population were to actually approve it which is by no means a 'done deal'

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 08:14 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5889325/Britains-gunboat-diplomacy-still-angers-Iceland.html


Here is something to read . but this is not all . the anger is
also becouse of problems made by the coverment about index , and inflation .

more later ,

and Emma the coverment wo was here 18 years ago was notmine

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 08:43 PM

I'm curious, Emma B. What does this mean: "...just entrepreneurial risk taking with other people's money is not enough unfortunately." (?)

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:28 AM

Ebbie I will do the best I can to explain what I meant and why some of the Iceland entrepreneurs, once lauded like Viking heroes in their own country, are now in 'exile' but not necessarily (yet) 'criminals in hiding'


"One of the more important players in the free market is the entrepreneur. In the free market the skills and risks which the entrepreneur is willing to take can be fully exploited by both producers and consumers to their advantage.

The entrepreneur is also characterised by an alertness for opportunities which have been ignored or unseen by others.
These opportunities are almost always accompanied by some profit.

The perception that a profit can be made by a market action is perhaps the prime mover of the entrepreneur. To buy at a set price and then sell at a higher one and the accompanying freedom to keep the difference as reward for his efforts provides the individual with the proper incentive to utilise the skills and abilities, along with a calculated risk, which make an entrepreneur. Moreover, if the entrepreneur is to function at all, it is only by the absence of stifling government restrictions and regulations.

- an introduction to 'The Entrepreneur, Risk Taking And The Profit Motive' by Doctor Mark Cooray


Within a free market order, entrepreneurs have to take risks because the last word lies with the potential buyers, the consumers, in return for the element of risk the entrepreneur demands a reward —this is the profit margin

This may take the form of investment in updated plant for increased efficiency and lower prices, it may involve expansion into new products and new markets, it may involve the takeover of less thriving firms in order to put their resources to more productive use it may also, of course, mean the purchasing of penthouse NY apartments and luxury yachts!

Within the private enterprise system entrepreneurs have been accused of being driven by unbridled greed to achieve excessive profits at the expense of both workers and consumers.


Iceland lauded the 'viking spirit' of its entrepreneurs
At the beginning of 2008 Reykjavik hosted one of the largest collections of private jets found anywhere in the world, used to whisk its new ruling elite of billionaire businessmen to visit their operations around the globe

Baugur, the Icelandic investment group, owned much of Britain's high street, with an empire stretching from House of Fraser and Whittard of Chelsea to the Iceland food store chain.
Landsbanki, the banking group, now had a firm foothold in the City, having bought stockbrokers Teather & Greenwood and Bridgewell.
It also built a huge UK internet savings business, branded IceSave.
Bakkavor, the food group, owned the fruit supplier Geest, along with a number of other specialist food businesses.
The list went on and on.


However, in the same year analysts began to suspect that, thanks to a series of cross-shareholdings across the Icelandic economy, it would not take much for the whole country's financial system to go into meltdown.

"The Icelandic banking sector is a classic example of plucky ambition or unrestraint, depending on one's attitude to risk" declared one consultancy

The circular web of cross-shareholdings, and relationships practiced in Iceland raised very real concerns in some quarters

Bjorgolfsson, for example, was chairman of Straumur, Iceland's fourth-largest bank. His father was chairman of Landsbanki. Together they owned an investment firm called Samson, which held 32 per cent of Straumur, and 41 per cent of Landsbanki.

The concerns about cross-holdings are rational.
Whether they are 'illegal' or fraudulent is another matter however....

Funding the likes of the major players like Bjorgolfsson, and Jon Asgeir Johannesson at Baugur made big money for Icelandic banks and, in turn, attracted many investors and savers
At the beginning of 2008 Landsbanki's results revealed that it had almost £5bn of UK savers' money - a substantially larger retail franchise than it had in Iceland.

As reported in The Huffington Post two months ago -

Ólafur Þór Hauksson may be the most important person in Iceland today....(he) is responsible for investigating and prosecuting the events that led up to the spectacular collapse of Iceland's banking sector in 2008
One year ago, he was serving as the district commissioner in the rural Akranes district, far from the tumult and the shouting in Reykjavik, where the country was enjoying the highest standard of living on the planet
This distance from the rich and famous was his main qualification. once the national Ponzi scheme collapsed

The top Icelandic attorneys were major participants in the wheelings and dealings that characterized Reykjavik.
The country's major players, who until recently comported themselves as masters of the universe, can still make life miserable for any special prosecutor.
The cry for blood from the defrauded Icelandic workers could easily turn against the prosecutor if the big fish get off the hook.

But the process is not fast

Parliament had first to fast track laws that overuled the current bank secrecy laws

transcript of interview with Ólafur Þór Hauksson and what steps are being taken to undercover any fraud etc here

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 12:29 PM

In brief, just like the South Seas Bubble, et al.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 01:37 PM

but not necessarily (yet) 'criminals in hiding'

URRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

those people are CRIMINALS , thiefs , and for all I care
they can go to jail with out a trail , and be forgotten .

I am not a bad person , but I cant forgive them .

And the coverment , are still after all these months are not doin nothin to bring them in , what happen here is ten time bigger than ENRON in US , those men where taken with in an hour of court order .
Here they get klapp on the shoulder and the coverment say , just dont do it again .

URRRRRRRRR

This is what is killin me and many other s house owner ( former )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indexation

Indexion mean s , in Jan 2008 I owned 14 million isl krónur
in my house , when the crisis came, the inflation went up ,
and so does the indexation , its connected to the inflation
so since October 2008 and until today i own 2 millions
in my house . I I have lost 12 millions , and its not over
yet , in the end of the year , I will end up in minus ? something .

so the its just not EU or Icesave we are fighting here , its our hole
life of work here . in UK you pay of your house and you cain something , here its not .

Hate , Anger , and many people here as elsewhere in the world
is hopless, and leave the country .

mostly young well educated people .

so this all I have to say about this .

Over and out .

all the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 01:54 PM

skarpi i'm very angry too.
I've worked hard all my life and part of my pension has been swallowed up by these people.

However, as some of my friends know, I'm on jury serice this week in one of our Crown Courts and have been made to realize just how important uncovering irrefutable evidence is before convicting anyone of a serious crime.

Please read the interview with Ólafur Þór Hauksson I posted a link to - he really does want to bring the guilty parties to a fair trial

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 08:22 AM

The housing crisis has hid hard here too. People were encouraged and enticed to mortgage MORE THAN 100% of the value of their homes with adjustable rates. House values have plummeted; rates went up; jobs were lost - and people are walking away from an impossible situation.
Yes - they made some very foolish decisions and are paying the price. But so are the rest of us. The glut of houses on the market and the untended abandoned homes on every street further destroy the values of our homes. For most of us, that is our biggest investment.

We have our Madoff with a Ponzi scheme that wiped out many charities as well as the entire savings of thousands of people.

Yesterday several New Jersey mayors and politicians as well as a number of rabbis were arrested for money laundering. They knowingly placed funds that were illegally raised (drugs more than likely) in charitable institutions' accounts and returned it minus 10%. One man was selling kidneys - which means that hospitals and doctors were involved.

So Iceland is not alone, skarpi. We are all hurting. But it is critical that any punishment be doled out only after careful research and a legal trial proving guilt. Otherwise we are all liable to become victims of a witch hunt. You can not just point a finger and say someone is guilty.

As for your new government - thay barely have had time to get their seats warm. Obama has the same problem. Change takes time. There is a legal process that must be followed to accomplish anything and that is good. A dictator can get things done quickly and efficiently but not usually in everyone's best interest.

I too have lost most of my retirement savings. My house value is down and still dropping and my mortgage payment is a struggle every month. I don't know anyone who isn't in the same position. We will all survive by taking one day at a time, taking care of our own, and calmly dealing with priorities. The alternative is to give up - homelessness is not an option for me. My cats simply won't tolerate it.
M

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 09:17 AM

Similar situation in the UK Sinsull

In a geographical analysis, Fitch Ratings found in Northampton, 23.6% of mortgages are now bigger than the value of the property they were used to buy and in Sunderland, SR1, which is the UK's epicentre of negative equity, Fitch reported that 43.7% of mortgages (by value) are higher than the current price of the property.

In the Cambridgshire towns and villages covered by the postcode CB25, where 27.6% of mortgages are in negative equity, the average amount is £13,369

Guardian Money report Tuesday 23 June 2009

One web site specializing in the sale of repossesed homes advertizes that they are sold on average at 36% less than market value which, as Sinsull observes, also affects the price of other homes in the same area

The Council of Mortgage Lenders reported that the number of actual repossessions in the first three months of this year were 62% higher than a year earlier and estimated the number of homeowners facing repossession this year to be 65,000

Sad days for many people

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 12:48 PM

I guess what I'm not understanding here is that a bunch of guys rapaciously snatched a lot of loot that belonged to other folks and then left in a hurry making it hard to chase 'em down.

Just like real Vikings.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 05:23 PM

"Real vikings" didn't hide their intentions.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 06:46 PM

How could they? What other blonds were hitting the beaches out of season?

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 09:20 AM

urrrrrr

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 01:10 PM

LOL
I thought they were all red heads?????

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 01:27 PM

"The word "viking" means something like "raid" in Old Norse; "vikingr" means something like "one who raids"; but there is no doubt that the word Viking came to mean the loosely-organized cultural groups in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, who shared a common economy: hunting, fishing, and piracy.

The #Viking Age' is traditionally marked with the first raid on England, in AD 793, and ends with the death of Harald Hardrada in 1066, in a failed attempt to attain the English throne.


Raiding as a lifestyle was established in Scandinavia by the 6th century, as illustrated in the epic English tale of Beowulf. But, as population grew, and trading networks into Europe became established, the Vikings became aware of the wealth of their neighbors, both in silver and in land.

Led by the Norwegians, the first raids were on monasteries in Northumberland on the northeast coast of England, at Lindisfarne (AD 793), Jarrow (794) and Wearmouth (794), and in the Orkney Islands of Scotland, at Iona (795).

These raids were exclusively for money—if the Norwegians couldn't find enough money in the monastery stores, they ransomed the monks back to the church. Eventually, the Vikings established strongholds and took land, expanding their landholdings through bloody battles, slavery and personal violence.

This pattern took place not just in England, but in the countries that are now Ireland, Scotland, Germany, France, Wales, Russia, Poland, Ukraine, and Turkey.

A different pattern took place in Iceland and Greenland, and Canada"

from 'The Vikings' About.com Archeology

Vikings were not universally large, blonde, hairy, and blue-eyed.
In fact, the Vikings demonstrated considerable genetic diversity.

Many modern towns in the area I live in in NW England still have names associated with old Norse.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 04:56 PM

My understanding of Vikings in the historic period is that their raids were not exclusively about booty, and encompassed a lot of murder, including artfully pulling out a victims' lungs while they were alive.The book of common prayer includes them as one of the scourges.
They not only raided but settled England and in fact agreed with the locals on a division of the land along borders which can be identified to this day. They are part of the genetic diversity of "The Islands"
Whatever you might want to say about the modern entrepreneurs, they apparently have foregone some of these activities.

References:
Rutherford's book "Sarum" (although I've seen allusions to this elsewhere).

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 05:19 PM

'They are part of the genetic diversity of "The Islands" '

Darn you mean immigrants?
Don't let the BNP know; they'll send them all back to Scandinavia :)

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: skarpi
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 05:19 PM

this is about Ingolfur Arnarson who came from Mid-West Norway to Iceland , and ther is a saga behind it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ing%C3%B3lfr_Arnarson

all the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 05:20 PM

Pedantic thread drift:

In order to extradite someone to their home country you first have to prove actual criminal actions

That doesn't always apply - notably in the case of extradition from the UK to the USA, where there is not even any requirement for a prima face case to be made against the person whose extradition is being sought. A simple request is sufficient, and the UK authorities does whatever kind master wants, like a loyal house-elf in Harry Potter.

Hence the current controversy over the case of Gary McKinnon.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 05:47 PM

Well, going back to Sarum, which was I think Rutherford's attempt to "Michener-ize" Britain, England/Scotland was originally populated by stone-age people, the Picts, then Celts, then Angles, Saxons, Romans, Scandinavians, Normans, Americans, Pakistanis and I've probably left a few out. One of the original mixed race nations.

Rutherford also wrote a book about Russia too so I hope I'm not mixing 'em up. I'm almost positive the Dnepr and Volga go with that book.

Subject: RE: its a sad day for Iceland .
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 05:59 PM

That article on Arnerson was interesting and comes with a beautiful painting which is just how I imagine Anchorasge being founded by Captain Cook, minus the Irish slaves!

We have a generous assortment of Scandihovvians here, I was once given a ticket by a Finnish cop.