X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!

Subject: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: X-Ed
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:31 PM

For the record, I am a musician/artist. I have been a concientious observer of Mudcat for a year. The attack on my nation has prompted me to talk and take actions. I left work early on Tuesday to give blood. I am enraged by this attack. I am enraged at the lack of solidarity and lackadaisical attiudes I saw when suggesting Americans spill a pint of blood to help other Americans. Seems many people are watching this like the Gulf War.

I am here to stay, because it seems I have been accused of "flaming". I say "nay" to that. I apparently have an opposing point of view than many of my now fellow Mudcatters. The Shambles wanted me to shut-up. I won't. I am a Free Man in the first nation on earth to offer this. I am also a veteran of Panama & the Gulf. I am ready to go again if need be. My country was attacked by people who will keep coming back if they are not destroyed. To anyone who would shut another's mouth because they couldn't handle a debate is no better then any other oppressor.

When America is victorius in this 30 year war, I hope all those who are not worthy of freedom move to Madagascar and keep thier "ostrich attidude" and go the way of the dodo.

Fly the Flag. Give Blood. Be a Patriot of the United States.

Talk at'cha later.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:45 PM

Welcome, Ed. Manners is all I really ask. Stick around.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:48 PM

You like to hear yourself talk, too. As far as I am concerned, from your other posts, you seem a bit trigger happy--I have come very close to telling you what Sham did, and more, but these are troubled times, and everyone gets a bit wound up--However, you aren't the only patriotic American, and most of the rest of us are smart enough to wait til the adrenalin wears off--if you can't, you're not welcome--

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:53 PM

If not a flame, then definitely over-the-top trolling. Spot on, MTed.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:54 PM

Well, Ed, we have a few ranters on board, and a few reasoners, and a few nay-sayers and a coupla wisenheimers. From what I have seen of your stuff, you're a red-blooded Yank with some of each in him.

No-one begrudges your patriotism. All of us from Stateside, I think, share it deeply. If it comes out in different words, or different suggestions than ytour own, I asxsume thats okay with you.

Do not shut up and welcometo the 'Cat to stay!!

A.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:54 PM

Ed, I have stayed silent so far on most of the conversations here but I feel now should be a time to reflect rather than one to seek revenge.

I heard Bush on UK television indicating that America were going to lead a war on terrorism which at first glance seems reasonable but I think we need to look further into the why these acts happen and why people take such desparate extreme actions before there can be any real resolution - at least if this world is to move forward.

America makes it known that it is the most powerful country in the world and it is unlikely that other countries with grievances can stand up against the force in a "fair fight" - could this give reason for other methods being used?

America and my own country (the UK) get involved in conflicts elsewhere in the world. Do we really know whether the main motives for envolvement are ones of justice or of economics? If we were to look at other issues such as environmenal issues, one could easily take the view that financial goals overrule caring of the world we all have to live in...

Please don't get me wrong, I want to see the people who caused this terrible event brought to justice and I don't agree with terrorism. I just feel that MAYBE it is time for the world to reflect.

Jon (wrestling with his own thoughts and confusion in public)

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: DougR
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:17 PM

Geeze! I never knew we had so many Thread "Cops" here on the mudcat. From whence does one obtain the authority to order a member off (if one does not approve of the posters messages)? Lighten up you two! It's still a free country isn't it?

Welcome X-Ed, from one who will not lecture you.

DougR

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:15 PM

It's still a free country isn't it Well, the Mudcat isn't exactly a country. But it's free.

That other thread came across as just another faceless troll trying to turn people against each other for the sake of it. Shooting fish in a barrel, as has been said. The point is with those kind of people there's no way of knowing they mean anything they say. So that's how it got treated, and if you've been lurking for a year X-Ed you'll understand the background to this.

In my case treating it that way meant staying clear of the thread, in other cases by unwelcoming comments. But clearly a misunderstanding.

Anyway, let's talk about music some time.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:24 PM

Hey, Ted, what happens when you try to be rude?

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:43 PM

Well Sorch, what the hell........I figure about 3-4 months max. So Xed out, have you met MAV?

Spaw

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:50 PM

Hi ya, X-ed:
I was going to offer you a completely unqualified welcome in to Mudcat... and do with one reservation... We Quakers did not fight in the Revolution or wars since then, for most of our existence, we have had this crap, leave the country if you don't support our wars leveled at us. We are still here. So, even though you are telling those of us, some of whom are my fellow Friends, others just friends, to leave our country, we will not respond by telling you to leave mudcat. So, welcome in, and try to speak with us in a civil manner.
Larry
PS we also intend to stay and fight for sanity without outward weapons.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Amergin
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:52 PM

there are more powerful weapons than a gun....and more deadly than a missile...

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:56 PM

Like a 757...

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Noreen
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:00 PM

The dodo lived in Mauritius, not Madagascar, and as far as I know there are no ostriches on either island...

X-ed, could you explain what this means, please?

I am a Free Man in the first nation on earth to offer this

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Amergin
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:05 PM

or an ignorant man, Guest....

and X-Ed...I'll be honest...I don't really give a fuck if you are here to stay or not...

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:09 PM

I dunno' either Noreen.......i figured it was a lot like saying,

"I'm a Big Mac in the first restaurant in the world to offer indigestion."

Or at least that's what I thought it meant...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:14 PM

I think this thread is a bit weird, I am not sure if people are arguing or not, if they are, they should stop.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:20 PM

I'm sure not looking forward to some "I'm more patriotic than thou" contest....

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:27 PM

Is that a promise or a threat, X-Ed??? :-) All I can say, son, is you gonna have a lively time...

- LH

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Bert
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:38 PM

Hi X-ed welcome aboard, I'll talk to anyone that has a name. Hey, I count amongst my friends DougR and Kendal, and Bill D and Spaw, great guys, as are all Mudders (guys here used in the Western sense as being inclusive of gals). We love people who disagree but as my darlin' Sorkie says - Be Polite.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:38 PM

I've always felt that if hell has a religion it is patriotism. It's simply a lousy job ahead for this nation. Let us go ahead and do it and get it done so we can all get back to discussing important things like if "John Henry" was a sexual allegory after all or whether Barbara Allen was a virgin or not. --------- Just no need to get pissed off and alienate ourselves all to hell. Just move on to the task at hand.

Keep your eyes on the prize !!!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:43 PM

Ah "Patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel" Can anybody remind me who was the originator of that particular remark? Its too late to call my mother and ask.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:50 PM

The above quote was by Dr Johnson.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:51 PM

And here's the other lovely one I grew up with, " I know now that patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred and no bitterness toward anyone." Nurse Edith Cavell to her last English visitor before she was shot by a German firing squad in 1915.

I bow out of all "more patriotic than you" fights.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: DougR
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:53 PM

Well, Art, don't keep me in suspence! Was she?

Bert, you're a good man. I'd never thought of it that way, but your comment that you will talk to anyone with a name suits me just fine.

We may have our disagreements here on the Mudcat, but I'd venture to say (I don't want to get too maudlin here) if a true Catter needed help, we would all be there to help.

DougR

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:56 PM

Right on, Bro Art. And before you start your shite, Ed, understand that there are a couple of decorated vets in these precincts. Apparently your time in the warzone didn't teach you anything. So what was your MOS? Clerk? Cook? Honorable trades, for sure.

When you made the following suggestion: "I hope all those who are not worthy of freedom move to Madagascar and keep thier "ostrich attidude" and go the way of the dodo. you showed a fundamental lack of understanding of what it is that we vets fought to defend. It is like the folks who want to outlaw flag burning. The right to stick one's head in the sand, or burn a flag is what makes this democracy fundamentally different from most others. It is for the right to do these things and many others that many of us served. You really ought to bone up on this stuff, son, before you come spouting off. Makes you look like a clown.

With regard to your being here for good, let me just say welcome. I am glad you are here. Please learn how to use the search engines, and read the FAQ. Glad you decided to join us.

Mick

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:12 PM

Thank you john in hull. I just looked up information about Edith Cavell on the net. Fascinating stuff. If you want to find out more you can look at this site.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:19 PM

You are welcome, it's 4 AM here (UK) and I can't get to sleep, I have been trying to do a few lyric requests, but they are too difficult for me! I will count some sheep.:-)

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:33 PM

Let's get our Dr Johnson quotes accurate. What the good Doctor said was "Patriotism is the last REFUGE of a scoundrel"

The point, as I always understood it, is that appealing to loyalty to one's own country is the act of a demagogue, of one who will say and do anything to gain public approval and political power.

Murray

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:37 PM

You're right Murray, its been a long time since I used it, I'd forgotten.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:39 PM

Excellent quotes, sophocleese, thank you. And the link, too.

kat

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:54 PM

I still can't sleep :-(

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: sophocleese
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:00 AM

john in hull, turn the computer and television off. Do some slow gentle stretching for fifteen minutes, pee if you need to, and lie down in bed in a darkened room for half an hour. Sleep well.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:04 AM

John, what you need is a deck of the new "Catspaw Scatology Cards." Take them to the can with you and see what you can predict, kinda' like tarot cards for the crapper. Just now I dealt them out and they said that when I stood up, I'd have to scratch my balls.....and damn if they weren't right! Great way to pass the time when you can't sleep.

Spaw

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Amos
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:06 AM

And if that fails, go walk in one direction until exhausted and then turn around and walk home. You'll sleep like a baby.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:25 AM

Cheers everybody, I am going to get into bed now, goodnight :-)

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Troll
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:54 AM

Ignore the man behind the curtain.

troll

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: DougR
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 01:06 AM

Well, X-Ed, Big Mick kind of threw down the gauntlet. Want to reply?

DougR

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:33 AM

For the record. I suggested that we send a Mudcat personal message to our (then) GUEST or ignore the thread.

We could not do that of course, but we can now.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:35 AM

WAR....

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 08:59 AM

Sorcha,

I don't need to try to be rude, it just comes naturally--I have to work at the other thing--

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:40 AM

Ed, your opinions are valid but they are not mine. Your patriotism is not being questioned here (by me) so I would not expect you to question mine. I may demostrate my patriotism differently than you do but that makes me no less a patriot.

I do not consider lining up with the firebrands to be an act of patriotism. I consider the acts of those who would turn us into a police state to be acts of treason. Earlier today one of my coworkers suggested we may have to carry a national ID card and looked at it as being a necessity. I see it as bein another step down the road to totalitarianism. It MUST be avoided. Our country is based on freedom and ANY limitations will be an indication that the terrorists have won.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 02:41 PM

Big Mick - Yes there are a few of us who have been there and done that. X-Ed is being amazingly polite all of a sudden. Maybe he was a cook. Good for him - I never liked cooking. C-Rats sucked but they were better than confiscated NVA rice. And the right to be - Ah sweet Liberty. With a shit load of Love my Brother - Steve

And as usual LH - your eloquence always leaves me breathless. BTW - I finally saw a picture of you on the "Pictures of members" page. Quite a dashing young man!! If I wasn't so fat I'd send a couple of mine in for perusal. :-)

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:01 PM

Personally, I liked the chocolate chip pound cake. I also liked the meatballs in sauce and corned beef hash, because whatever that was that was supposed to be meat was chopped up and rendered less slab like. I didn't like the slabs - especially not the oil-slick shine when you held them just the right way in the light.

The Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs) were better. I still have fond memories of Chicken a la King (puke in a pouch) We once had a "Pork Patty, Dehydrated" bronzed and put on a plaque for a commander. (That was before that delicacy was phased out because it made a better practical joke than meal.)

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:34 PM

....what fond memories - I'd almost forgotten about the 'meat of many colors' ...in hindsight, maybe that mystery meat was supposed to be rainbow trout.

ditto the MREs...still, the most *edible* thing about them seemed to be the little packs of Chic-lets.

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: GUEST,Question
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:52 PM

This is a real question, so don't climb my ass. Someone stated that Quakers are conscientious objectors and have not been involved in wars. However, do their beliefs prohibit them from serving as corpsmen or medics?

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:03 PM

Norton1 - Gosh. I blush. My eloquence has sometimes embarrassed me. Actually, I'm not that young at all...I'm just thin. I wish I was that young.

As Dylan said of the young folks in the park on his 1997 album "Time Out Of Mind":

"All the young men with their young women looking so good Well, I'd trade places with any of them In a minute, if I could"

As long as I could still be me inside, that is.

Good wishes to you and all the rest hereabouts!

- LH

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 04:24 PM

Patriots want the best for and of their country and are eager to identify where it's gone wrong, so tha it can be set right. Michael Moore, for example, is my idea of a real American patriot.

As always GK Chesterton put it memorably: "My country right or wrong" is a thing no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying "My mother drunk or sober." No doubt if a decent man's mother took to drink, he would share her troubles to the last; but to talk as if he would be in a state of gay indifference as to whether his mother took to drink or not is certainly not the language of men who know the great mystery."

From A Defence of Patriotism (in The Defendant)

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 05:58 PM

Geeziz Mac, you post all of that Chesterton stuff and my Big Mac line doesn't even get a snicker huh? Oh well.........Looks to me like X-ED has gone off to stay elsewhere.....been X'ed out you might say.

Bye-bye Ed.....and AMF

Spaw

Subject: RE: X-Ed is here to STAY!!!!
From: Noreen
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:17 PM

*snicker* Spaw, you know we always snicker at your postings, just in case they're funny... I thought you knew that?

I took the Big Mac explanation literally and found it aided my comprehension somewhat. Thank you. :0)