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BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
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Subject: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 30 May 12 - 06:00 PM Had a terrible experience today... Behind the house is about 100 acres of woods and I have maybe a half mile of dirt roads I've cleared with my tractor... One such road is only about 40 feet deep in the woods and goes down to a creek... The woods between the road and the tree line is dense so the cats spend a lot of time in there hunting for stuff... Mostly voles... Well, this morning I had a load of crappy dirt I had dug out for a footer and was taking it back to dump in some low spots in the road down by the creek when... ...I saw something in the middle of the road heading toward the house... It was a big, big snapping turtle... Probably 40 pounds worth... Now I've been able to get snapping turtles out of roads by holding out a long stick, let them bite it and drag them out of the road to safety... There was no way I was going to get this turtle out of them woods and all I was thinkin' is that one of the two outdoor cats was gonna find it, paw at it and end up dead or crippled... So... ...I shot him!!! And I feel terrible... I have never, ever killed a turtle... I stop and get 'um off highways... I feel terrible... Absolutely terrible... I mean, maybe I could have... Or... Or... I've been trying to think of anything else I could have done... Oh, sure, he might have wandered off... But then he might killed one of my cats... I feel terrible... My karma is messed up and I'm sure that something bad will happen to me for what I have done... I feel terrible... B:~( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 May 12 - 06:05 PM You could write a song - a bit like Bob Marley.... I Shot the Turtle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp Date: 30 May 12 - 06:13 PM Geez. I hardly know what to say. I didn't realize you was this sensitive to the lives of other creatures, Bobert, specially humble ones like that turtle. I think this speaks well for you. After all, you care, right? A lotta people wouldn't give a hoot. This shows you got a big heart. It's too bad you shot that turtle. I don't know what you can do about it now except...well, do some nice things for some other animals that need help, I guess. That's how I'd pay off the karmic debt, if there is one. And remember that none of us is perfect. We all done some things now and then that we regret. - Chongo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Leadfingers Date: 30 May 12 - 06:31 PM Hey Bobert - One thing I DONT envy you guys over the pnd is some of your wild life . I Know how you fel though - I dont even kill wasps , and I HAVE seen Snapping Tutles , and wouldnt even try to move one with a LONG pole ! As Chongo said , make it up to other animals , and remember that you have saved your cats a VERY unpleasant exprience |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Midchuck Date: 30 May 12 - 07:05 PM So how many flatpicks did you end up with? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: gnu Date: 30 May 12 - 07:06 PM I dunno squat about em but, if you decided to shoot it, that musta been the right thing ta do at the time. I am sure there will be all sorts of posts about what ya coulda/shoulda done but ya done what ya had ta do eh? As fer remorse, karma, second thoughts or 20-20 hindsight or all the peeps that are gonna post, I know how ya feel. Been there. Done that. More than once. Odd thing. Just this AM at about 4 I had a recollection about a porcupine from 30 years ago... got somethin ta do with thinkin about my uncle who is on his way out... memories of huntin trips I guess. I won't tell the story but it's somewhat similar. That porky had to go but I still feel bad about takin it out. Just the fact that you feel remorse means a lot. Sometimes, ya gotta do what ya gotta do eh? Are you able to use it in some way or donate it to someone who can use it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 30 May 12 - 07:21 PM I know the feeling, Boberdz. I shot a good-sized diamondback rattlesnake a few months back because he was in my driveway and crawling toward the house, about fifty feet away. Most of the time, I go out of my way to let rattlers live, and I'd never dream of hurting a nonpoisonous snake. When I see 'em on the roadside, I'll stop and have a conversation with 'em instead of runnin' 'em over like my redneck neighbors are wont to do. But, every now and then, a rattler or a cottonmouth wanders into where he's not welcome and then it's, "BOOM! Sorry about that, Mr. Snake. Have a nice rebirth. Why dontcha try comin' back as somethin' everybody likes, like a pileated woodpecker?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: gnu Date: 30 May 12 - 07:27 PM Them woodpecker's 'll peck yer wood eh? Ya don't wanna trust em. Them varmints is up ta no good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 30 May 12 - 07:38 PM Yeah, Beeze... I have caught and relocated many snakes... Back in the holler I caught and moved two timber rattlers... I did have to kill a copperhead, tho... He was living under a concrete pad and the P-Vine had a small flower garden in front of it... He was gonna bite here if she went weedin' in there... Felt terrible about that snake, too... As for the turtle??? Yeah, I know that some folks eat 'um but I put him in the tractor bucket and drove about half mile and dumped him over a small bridge over a creek... I appreciate ya'll tellin' me that I ain't a monster... But I still feel real bad... B:~( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: SINSULL Date: 30 May 12 - 07:53 PM I feel bad for you and the turtle, Bobert. I try to relocate anything that gets into my house but sometimes... It had to be done or you would not have done it. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Lonesome EJ Date: 30 May 12 - 08:09 PM When Life gives you snapping turtles, make soup. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: katlaughing Date: 30 May 12 - 08:10 PM When we didn't know any better (silly Westerners), my daughters and I stopped for a steering wheel sized turtle, put her in the back end, took her to the nature center, where they said turn right back around and put her back. She's laying eggs in the sand by the edge of the road. Put her back in the back of the car and there were a bunch of what looked like ping-pong balls, she laid whilst riding around. They told us she was big enough to bite off a finger, but we knew turtles and had no trouble with her. We buried the eggs she left in the car, but nothing came of them. I would have tried to contain it, first, then called a nature center. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 30 May 12 - 08:17 PM Our local organizations are useless... We had a sick and violent feral cat that was responsible for us losing our cat, Emma... No one cares... I was kinda afraid that if I had taken the time to find some help I was gonna have dead kitty on my hands... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 30 May 12 - 09:38 PM Bobert, send a donation or something to these folks. They do good work and are good people. (I like turtle soup, but you gotta prepare it right. You didn't have time and had to protect your cats. Don't fret any; the turtle knows you had to do what you did.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 May 12 - 09:43 PM WILL THE TURTLE BE UNBROKEN Les Barker I have bought a small apartment In a lonely part of town There are 27 storeys It's a long way to the ground There I live with my friend Myrtle My companion, my best friend She ain't human; she's a turtle And I'll love her to the end She was standing at my window On a cold and cloudy day Till some wild and wilful wind blew My poor Myrtle clean away Will the turtle be unbroken By and by Lord, by and by Lord help my Myrtle as she hurtles Through the sky Lord, through the sky I ran downstairs, I was crying I must find her, I must know My poorMyrtle would be lying Several hundred feet below Will the turtle be unbroken By and by Lord, by and by Lord help my Myrtle as she hurtles Through the sky Lord, through the sky Was she sundered into sections As her shell fell to the ground Would I find two hundred plectrums My friend Myrtle all around Will the turtle be unbroken By and by Lord, by and by Lord help my Myrtle as she hurtles Through the sky Lord, through the sky Oh caretaker, poor caretaker Why do you lie here stone cold dead Poor man went to meet his maker Something landed on his head And the turtle was unbroken By and by Lord, by and by For you guided my friend Myrtle Through the sky Lord, through the sky Undertaker, undertaker Lay that poor man in his grave Good Lord took the old caretaker But my best friend she was saved Yes the turtle was unbroken By and by Lord, by and by For you guided my friend Myrtle Through the sky Lord, through the sky |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 30 May 12 - 10:12 PM Sheet fire, Al... B;~( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Songwronger Date: 30 May 12 - 10:24 PM You advocate killing kids with vaccines, your use of cannabis contributes to the deaths of no telling how many thousands along the U.S./Mexican border each year, you support a president who kills daily in your name for corporate interests, and you're whining about a turtle? Just jump, man. And what's the deal with the gun? You're always flatulating about how Americans should be disarmed, so give up your gun and let your goddam cats die. What a hypocrite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 30 May 12 - 10:33 PM Wronger: Exhibit A that men did fuck buffalo... And men didn't land on the moon... And Obama kidnapped the Limbergh baby... And, and, and... Like I said on the other thread where you thought your conspiracy theories were cool: You are a jerk and a moron!!! You want to take me on, BIG GUY??? Bring your moronish tin-foil, Jim Jones kool-aide shit on!!! Square business!!! Have a nice moronish night... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Ebbie Date: 31 May 12 - 12:01 AM Don't pay the wrong guy no mind, Beaubear. His is a miserable existence. As for the turtle versus the kitties, I go with Rapparee on this: the turtle knew you had to do what you did. It was one of the risks he took on when he chose to be a turtle. Oh, wow. Did I say that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 31 May 12 - 03:42 AM A turtle's gotta do, what a turtle's gotta do.... I shot the turtle But I did not fuck the buffalo You should write that song.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 May 12 - 03:55 AM No wonder Democrats want gun control!!..they must think the rest of the nation is as nuts as they are! You're a brave and courageous soul!!.....He could have attacked you, and snapped at you..worse than P-Vine does.....Hey, I hope you cleaned it up before you have to mow!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 31 May 12 - 04:09 AM no G from S. - they think the rest of the nation is nuts as you are. If Al Quaeda managed to kill and injure as many Americans as your present policy of putting guns into the hands of idiots does - you'd have a state of emergency declared. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 May 12 - 04:29 AM I'm not for putting guns in the hands of anybody....but the turtles of Bobert's neighborhood might consider arming themselves! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 31 May 12 - 05:34 AM I wonder why we don't have turtles in England. I bet they'd like it here. Lots of imported animals do. I saw a beautiful sika deer last night when I went shopping. It just came into my headlights and just stood there staring at me. I stopped the car and we just stared at each other for a while. Then it showed me its white bum, and high tailed it into tthe forest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 31 May 12 - 05:50 AM I would have been concerned about the cats too, Bobert. I don't know anything about snapping turtles, but from what you describe it might have badly injured a pet. It died instantly and did not suffer. Sometimes in life I've regretted and beat myself up about things I've done, but eventually you have to accept that what's done is done, and let it go. I like very much your concern about the rightness/wrongness of your action. You obviously have a caring personality. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 31 May 12 - 07:00 AM Absolutely Liza - my own thoughts, but your caring words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: BanjoRay Date: 31 May 12 - 07:16 AM Bobert - I bet your cats were old acquaintances of the turtle's and had avoided him for years. If your cats enjoy roaming through the woods, they'll know what's about and how to look after themselves, so there's no need to decimate the wildlife to keep them safe! yomv Ray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Dave Hanson Date: 31 May 12 - 07:27 AM Al we do have turtles in the UK, due to people releasing them in the wild when they grow too big or the kids can't be arsed looking after them. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 31 May 12 - 08:16 AM I have seen, personally and with my own eyes, a snapping turtle BITE a two-in-thick wooden rod in two. Yes, it was a big turtle. Please check at least Wikipedia before you go shooting your mouths off. Songwronger is simply an ill-formed opinion with an asshole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: maeve Date: 31 May 12 - 08:22 AM BanjoRay- Bobert has moved to a new and very different location. This was a first encounter kind of thing- the cats aren't likely to have dealt with a big snapper before. Bobert- I've personally had reason to handle many very large (shells 18"-25" long) bad-tempered females and newly-hatched Common Snapping Turtles- an unofficial part of an earlier job- and find they are mainly concerned with laying their eggs and filling their stomachs. I love to watch their prehistoric-feeling movements as they search for the perfect nest site. I've not handled Alligator snappers. Generally, the only time you're likely to find either kind of snapper out of water is when the females go ashore to lay their eggs in spring and when the hatchlings emerge from their underground sandbeds about 100 days later to scramble their way to water. Snappers up here are slower growing and reach larger sizes in general than their southerly cousins. They are scavengers and opportunists, preferring carcases, small amphibians and reptiles, crayfish, fish, cygnets and ducklings, etc. Chances are your cats are safe enough unless they insist on sticking themselves into harm's way. You took action using information at hand. We do the best we can and learn as we go. Another time you may make a different choice. North Carolina snappers Or was it an Alligator snapping turtle ? Large female snapper in Maine Maine again, medium size Another Maine snapper's story http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/snapping_turtle.aspx Warm regards, Maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 31 May 12 - 08:40 AM The scary part about large snapping turtles is that their heads can go from being in shell to fully extended of about 12 inches (lotta neck) in a split second... Very much like a snake strike... And yeah, they bite down very hard... Enough to kill or maim a cat without workin' up a sweat... Thanks (almost) all for the supportive words and, yes... ...I did dispose of it's body in a respectful manner... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: GUEST,saulgoldie Date: 31 May 12 - 08:51 AM Bobster, Don't be so hard on yeself. It is impossible to be completely moral in everything one does. Life is one big gray area. Maybe if you write a musical tribute to the dearly departed that would help you feel better? At any rate, you are judging yourself much more harshly than I think most 'Catters would judge you. Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 31 May 12 - 08:53 AM Thanks, Saul... I've always been hard on myself... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: maeve Date: 31 May 12 - 09:38 AM Bobert, no criticism intended from here, only support, with information for those who may not know the critter. They can be big and scary. You are the one who was there, and I trust your judgement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Becca72 Date: 31 May 12 - 09:46 AM Odd timing to be reading this thread. I just drove by a turtle on the side of the road this very morning. I haven't seen one "live and in person" in years and thought it odd. Now I know what she was doing. Bobert, your heart was in the right place. Don't beat yourself up too much. The kitties thank you for watching out for them. I hit a coyote a couple of months ago and it tore me up. Poor little bastard was just trying to cross the road. I still get teary thinking about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 31 May 12 - 10:15 AM Funnily enough we were just this morning bowling along a very 'country road' near Little Snoring (yes, that's the name of the village!) when a huge hare loped out from the hedge. He had great long legs and black ears, just gorgeous. Fortunately the road was completely empty so I hit the brakes and swerved, and he shot off into the field of new sugar beet. But I'm afraid I would have had to hit the beautiful creature rather than kill another motorist, and then I'd have been in the same state as you Bobert. We can only do what we think is right can't we? And sometimes the choices are very difficult. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 31 May 12 - 10:57 AM Bobert, I was an interpretive naturalist for a long time, talking to the public about the native plants and animals in several and various areas. I had a habit of picking up and skinning out fresh roadkill to use in demonstrations. These were animals in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think you need to consider this snapping turtle a special category of roadkill. Relocating dangerous animals is preferable if you can move them far enough from people and habitations that they won't cause you (or your nearby neighbors) a problem. But sometimes that intersection between people and other dangerous animals (we are dangerous animals) means a choice is made. A turtle the size you describe can easily take off a finger, and could easily kill a cat. The common snapping turtle isn't endangered. Rest assured, there are still hazards your cats will face, perhaps a turtle you haven't seen. Nature isn't going to let you create a turtle vacuum, or a place free of cat hazards. You've just put your thumb on the scale of the wildlife balance in your yard. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Charley Noble Date: 31 May 12 - 11:07 AM I'd also feel bad about this too. A forty pound snapping turtle has been prowling the swamps and bogs for a good many years. But I'm also not sure what I would have done with it. They are dangerous, and much as I'd like to haul him away and drop him off at the local Tea Party headquarters I'm not sure if I could have managed it. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 31 May 12 - 11:23 AM Hey, Bobert, I have the answer. A shrine to the victim (Lizzie posted this on facebook). Or here. Or put up a statue. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Little Hawk Date: 31 May 12 - 11:25 AM You say you're hard on yourself, Bobert? Me too. Most of us are pretty hard on ourselves, because... - we're more closely involved with ourselves than with anyone else. - we know our own faults and failures firsthand, including all our little secrets. - we expect considerably more of ourselves than we do of others. - we live with our memories. That can mean being pretty hard on yourself! As I get older I am finding it easier and easier to forgive most other people for whatever they may have done or not done....but I wonder if I will EVER succeed in forgiving myself!@%$! (for a large variety of presumed failures and imperfections) Know what I mean? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 31 May 12 - 12:04 PM Cheer up Bob! The reptiles got one back....! http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pastor-killed-in-rattlesnake-attack-during-church-service.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Little Hawk Date: 31 May 12 - 12:07 PM Literal interpretations of symbolic texts can get you in quite a bit of trouble. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 31 May 12 - 12:49 PM I think it has more to do wth folklore than the bible. In England - theres blokes who put ferrets down their trousers. One village I went to there was a chap who used to dock puppy's tails for a quid - he'd bite them off. Monkey business with animals. This guy got his justification from the Bible, but I bet he would have done it anyway - or something similarly daft. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 31 May 12 - 08:54 PM No shrine, tho I liked the one that Magz posted... I did find another turtle today but just an innocent box turtle... He/she was on one of my dirt roads in the woods... I stopped and let him/her get safely across... I'd like to think that was a sign from God... But I doubt it... I'll be okay... The P-Vine had me shoot deer back in the Holler... I did it... That never bothered me, however, because I had seen first hand what they were doing to vegetation... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 31 May 12 - 09:14 PM Bobert, are you aware of the zong "P-Vine Blues" by (I think) Charley Patton? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 31 May 12 - 09:20 PM Yup, I know the song, Rap... It's about an obscure Mississippi railroad line... The "Peavine Rail Line" I have the words somewhere... Not much of a song... Oh well??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 31 May 12 - 09:25 PM Hey, do you want this guitar I picked up at the Memphis Cotton Museum? It's an electric and has dials and knobs, but it's got the name "Lucille" up where you tune the strings. It's black. Probably belonged to Lucille Ball or somebody. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 31 May 12 - 09:27 PM Hell yeah, Rap... I love Lucy!!! And if she left a geetar for me than I'll love it, too... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: maeve Date: 31 May 12 - 09:51 PM You have class, Rap... as does Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 31 May 12 - 10:40 PM I also have B. B. King's guitar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Jun 12 - 04:10 AM Bobbird old friend, Hain't you larned yet to take this to the.... huh! You know where Ah goin' widdat! :~) Ants. With me, it's ants. But I still don't tolerate 'em in my house. The Lawd putted us'n's in charge of the creeturs. Iss a hard job. You a good man fer it tho. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 01 Jun 12 - 05:26 AM Where are the wild turtles in the UK, Dave? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 01 Jun 12 - 07:52 AM Well, I think we got all yer turtles back here in my woods, Big Al... Seems I see one every time I'm back there... Fortunately, other than the one that I killed the others are not a danger to my cats... We have "Eastern Box Turtles" everywhere and water turtles in the pond... One keeps trying to lay eggs in places I mow so I've had to move her to more appropriate egg laying areas... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 01 Jun 12 - 08:03 AM Turtle eggs...yum! I'll come visit and help you catch a big 'un. We'll make some turtle soup. Take a few days, though, but I'll bring some beer and you can drink Iron City. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:55 AM These preachers, do they actually put a snake right in their mouth? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 01 Jun 12 - 11:32 AM Snake handlers are dieing out... Literally... Another one died this week... Seems that they didn't get the memo from God telling 'um that handling snakes can kill ya'... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: kendall Date: 01 Jun 12 - 11:54 AM Saying that democrats want gun control is not so.We want NUT CASE control. Bobert, years ago I hit and killed a cat that was in the middle of the road. I didn't even attempt to miss it. I've felt bad ever since. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: olddude Date: 01 Jun 12 - 12:19 PM sorry Bobster, good eating critter though Yea I have had to do that a few times myself. Now for some turtle meat. They call it cooter down south. I get me BBQ sauce |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: olddude Date: 01 Jun 12 - 12:26 PM I love the critters, they use to wander up in my yard back home. There was a big river behind the house. Some of them were the size of bushel basket round ... Mean critter hiss ... we would get them into a big cardboard box and toss them back in. A couple of time I had to take them out only because of kids and dogs and cats and could not get them under control. I know you feel bad Bob but you did right on this one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Becca72 Date: 01 Jun 12 - 12:36 PM "cooter" is something entirely different in this neck of the woods. if he's chasing it out in the woods, P-Vine is gonna be some pissed... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bill D Date: 01 Jun 12 - 02:27 PM Many years ago, I was driving a friend back to Wichita from Kansas City, where he had a major eye treatment....he really shouldn't have been driving. We were in his VW Beetle, and it was dark...maybe 9PM. He was sitting in the passenger seat. Across the road ran a raccoon! Before I had time to do anything, Tony **grabbed the steering wheel** and yanked it to the right! Simultaneously, *I* grabbed the wheel back and we hit the raccoon!...and the little car did 2-3 two-wheel leans as I regained control. Closest I ever came to turning over in a ditch. I 'think' I might have avoided the raccoon if I hadn't had help. I believe I said (after I began breathing again) something like: "Tony, you really should let the driver deal with things like that."... and he said "Sorry.." As far as I remember, I had never hit anything else with a car except bugs on the window. I regret the raccoon, but like bugs, he was doing what he does, and took his chances. It doesn't seem to me any different if I am the proximate cause of his demise, rather than a hunter or a wolf. It 'feels' a bit different because I am not a hunter, and would rather nature decided the lifespan of critters.... but since I do NOT hunt, for food OR sport, I know that I make very little difference in the ecological balance. You know... a million years ago, our remote ancestors killed and/or ate 'things' with no concept of 'karma'. Sometime in the last several thousand years an idea gradually developed in some places...and in religions like Jainism... that all 'organisms' had...ummm..'souls'?? or 'metaphysical essence'?? that somehow we had no business interfering with. (I knew a lady who wouldn't kill roaches... but would scoop them up and throw them out in the snow, where "God would decide what to do with them.") *sigh* One wonders exactly when & how "All creatures great & small" got ...ummm...whatever it is they got that gives US karma if we mess with it. (Yes... my own opinion is that only **common sense** should decide what is 'fair game' for food and elimination.) In my extended opinion, Bobert did his best to use common sense... which cost one turtle, and probably avoided worse situations. Get off of the ledge, Bobert.. you have done far more good in your life than bad... I think the spirit of the turtle will be fine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 01 Jun 12 - 02:54 PM Well, about 25 years ago I was fishing on the Po River in Spotsyvania, Va. where my in-laws had a real nice weekend getaway... I had paddled up the river to a real nice fishing spot and was sittin' in the canoe with it tied to this perfect log... A wasp seemed to also think that that particular space was his and let me know... Not in a mean way but in a manner that could have escalated... After about 4 or 5 attempts to get my attention he landed on the log and I took the oar and kinda severed his head section from the body and stinger... Well, no kinda about it... I mean, I did it... Well I went up stream a couple hundred yards to another good spot but the fish just weren't bitin' up there so I returned to the wasp spot as the sun was getting lower in the sky and the fish started hittin' just about everything I threw at them... Well, one of them was hooked good but swam right under the log where I had the canoe tied and I needed to step out on that log and see if I could pull him out from under it... Soon as I stepped out on that log I felt something that felt like electricity and instantly knew I'd been wasp stung... Sho nuff, the back half of that wasp I had cut in half somehow still knew how to sting and sting it did... That the end of Bobert's true Karma story... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Stringsinger Date: 01 Jun 12 - 03:41 PM Keep the cats inside. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 01 Jun 12 - 03:54 PM They won't come in... They are outdoor cats and scared of the house... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bill D Date: 01 Jun 12 - 04:28 PM Bobert.... I was stung by a dead wasp I didn't even kill! Was tryin' to fix a leak in an attic air-conditioner and feelin' around for rough spots... and ZAPPP! Dead yellow-jacket in the water got me good! Worst sting I ever had, and I wasn't guilty of nothin'! Does Karma come retro-active to any human who disturbs a watery grave? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 01 Jun 12 - 05:35 PM I'll help push Bobert off the ledge. Turtle lover. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Jun 12 - 06:10 PM Bobert - Like you, I'm reluctant to harm 'bout any critters except out of necessity. In your present case, if you dumped him in a crik you can consider the whole of your actions not as the dispatching of one big turtle, but as the providing of an easy meal for a dozen smaller ones. Of course when the smaller ones all grow up there'll be a bunch of big turtles (bein' well fed an' all), and they may form up in ranks and set out to investicate the scene of the crime - sort of a communally organized great turtle drive like I think I heard about ... . Might be ya oughta run a disc on that road where it happened, just to scatter the evidence. I can't think of many pleasant resolutions for havin' a dozen 30 or 40 pound turtles knockin' on yer back door a few years hence if they track ya down ... It might be hard to tell if they want revenge, or just another snack. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:44 PM : Talk Me Down from the Ledge.. Oh, just fuckin' jump! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Janie Date: 01 Jun 12 - 09:57 PM Life is full of tough choices. It speaks well of you that you question yourself. Come on down off the ledge, bro. I wasn't there. I'm more familiar with turtles and probably would not have made the same choice because I would have assessed the risk as much smaller. I'm also a bit darwinian and would have figured that while it was unlikely the cats would have messed with the turtle, if they were stupid enough to have done so, well.... Having said that, I killed a baby snake a number of years ago because it may have been a copperhead, but I didn't have enough knowledge to know. It was on my back steps. I had a 4 year old child. I don't know snakes. We had black racers all around, even living in the crawl space, but they were eating the voles that were decimating my garden, and I like black snakes, even when we surprise each other and scramble wildly in opposite directions. If a snake is black, I know it is some species black snake. If a snake is green, I know it is a green snake. If the snake looks like a humongous earthworm, only more snakey, I know it is a worm snake. Otherwise, I don't know. I live in copperhead country. My father-in-law nearly lost his foot from the necrosis caused by a copperhead bite. A good friend lost three fingers and a portion of his hand from a copperhead bite. This was a baby snake, and patterned. I popped a clear plastic container over it and went to fetch a neighbor to ask if she thought it might be a copperhead. She opined it was a baby copperhead. She didn't know a lot about snakes, but she knew more than I did. I killed it, and put it in the freezer to save until a good friend who is a naturalist and keeps snakes for educational displays and school workshops came by for supper. Turns out it was a baby black racer. They are apparently patterned in infancy. It still bothers me that I killed it. But I would do the same again if I were unable to identify the snake and had any concern it could be a copperhead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 01 Jun 12 - 10:03 PM Yeah, I killed one snake in my life and it was a copperhead... Lived under a concrete pad and the P-Vine had to have her hands a foot away from it's hole... Did, however, capture two rattlesnakes and relocated them both... Also relocated dozens of turtles and snakes over the years... Yeah, I'm the guy who dodges on-coming cars to rescue them... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Janie Date: 01 Jun 12 - 10:27 PM And the snappers and box turtles are definitely on the spring move here in the southern part of heaven otherwise known as North Carolina. I have 40 miles of country two lane roads to drive to and from work. The past 2, maybe 3 weeks, I see anywhere from 3 to 8 snappers and box turtles crossing the highway on my daily commute. If I stopped for all of them, I'd never get to work! Narrowly missed a snapper this morning. On-coming traffic so I was limited in how much I could swerve to miss it, and wasn't sure I had until the car didn't go bumpbang-bumpbang. Noticing over the past couple of years that people are more careful about not running over turtles - haven't seen any roadkill turtles this year so far- pretty remarkable. Seems folks still go out of their way to run over snakes, however. I ran over a squirrel this evening. Absolutely unavoidable unless I was prepared to die instead. I hate having to make that choice, but don't regret the choice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:17 PM Snake's good eatin', too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: gnu Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:32 PM Rap... I prefer lobster, crab, clam. They ain't so ugly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Janie Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:49 PM That's what I hear. Never have eaten snake, and never have heard or read about eating any snake but rattlesnake. I expect snake tastes like snake, however, which means, like chicken. Maggie, good to hear I ain't the only "girl" on Mudcat who has skinned a roadkill. Have you ever read John McPhee's "Travels in Georgia"? Groundhogs are hard to skin, and often not large enough, but groundhog hides, when large enough, make for excellent frame drums. Thin, tough, and bright tones. Since they are common roadkills, I have stopped and collected and skinned a few, though I would not assert "more than a few." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Janie Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:53 PM I dunno, gnu. Define "ugly." *grin* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: GUEST,hg Date: 02 Jun 12 - 11:16 PM Yo u're absolutely sure it was a snapping turtle and not a gopher tortoise? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: kendall Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:13 AM David Holt tells a story about his Granny talking on a "Hog a phone." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jun 12 - 02:54 PM Janie, of all of the Mudcatters you're acquainted with, I suspect you, Bobert, maybe BWL and I are the only ones who might claim to have actually skinned out anything. :) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: kendall Date: 03 Jun 12 - 02:58 PM I've skinned many a deer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 03 Jun 12 - 03:08 PM I've skinned (and gutted) deer, rabbits, squirrels, fish.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jun 12 - 04:22 PM Of course! I should have thought about the hunters in the group. That adds a few more. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: maeve Date: 03 Jun 12 - 04:45 PM In this world-wide, multi-generational community called Mudcat there are many members with many unadvertised skills and experiences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: gnu Date: 03 Jun 12 - 05:21 PM Hard ta skin? Well, of course roadkill is hard ta skin. Iffin ya want easy ta skin, ya gotta run over em yerself and skin em right away. Add me to the skinner list... years ago. Nowadays, I buys em gutted, skinned and butchered. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 03 Jun 12 - 06:10 PM Yeah, it's easier on creaky, crotchety old men that way. Why, I remember when we'd chase 'em down on foot, jump on their backs, and cut their throats (not hard with deer and such, but more challenging with rabbits and squirrels). Back then we were REAL hunters! None of this namby-pamby camouflage! No! We hunted naked, smeared with mud, like nature intended! And we chipped our own knives and spear points out of rocks! I remember one time I was out there and had a aptosaurus surrounded it was just me... snoresnoresnore.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Janie Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:03 PM Groundhogs be hard to skin whether fresh or "swelled up just right!" Got to admire an animal as tough and resilient as a groundhog, even while cussing about the damage done to the garden. Bobert, you don't mind a bit of thread-drift, do you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:08 PM Heck no!!! Especially fir a puffed up roadkill ground hog... They can be a challenge... Smell real bad, too, when they puffed up... Much better fresh... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:20 PM 'I live in copperhead country. My father-in-law nearly lost his foot from the necrosis caused by a copperhead bite. A good friend lost three fingers and a portion of his hand from a copperhead bite.' Move for godsake! That place sounds dangerous! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: gnu Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:31 PM Hard to skin fresh? I just can't get with that. I never skinned one but, I just can't get with that. But, I'll never know on accounta I ain't never skinn(ed)in one. Of course, that bges the question, "Why?" Ere they good eatin? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 03 Jun 12 - 08:48 PM Well, gn-ze... I don't eat 'um either but my friends eat 'um and they say, "Tastes like chicken"... Don't smell 'er look like chicken... Looks like ground hog... BTW, groundhog is a nasty animal... He snorts and weezes like a pig and can make his snoot look just like a wild hog when he feels threatened... But he is also very smart... Okay, he don't do cars too well but if he is in yer garden he knows you want to get him and so he is sneaky... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:18 PM Groundhog is eatin' meat. Kinda like possum, it's pretty greasy, but beggars can't be choosers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:30 PM Cook him on the Weber and the grease drops into the fire and burns and cooks him even hotter... Yeah, baby!!! Ol' hog grease become cookin' fuel... Gotta keep hoggie up over 300 degrees fir 2 hours to get hoggie ready fir eatin'... Smoked hog okay, too, but hog needs about four hours of smokin'... Same with all them kinda critters... Now I don't eat 'um but Mr. Clifford used to eat 'um back in the holler... He told me all about cooking them critters... He didn't eat no skunk but he ate everything else... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:46 PM They weren't called "apatosaurus" way back then, they were called "brontosaurus". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 03 Jun 12 - 09:51 PM BBQ'd brontosaurus... Yummy... Or so I'm told... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: kendall Date: 04 Jun 12 - 07:30 AM Raparee, you had knives? we would have killed for a knife! We had to let our nails grow and use them to rip the prey apart! By the way, I gave up hunting in 1982. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Bobert Date: 04 Jun 12 - 09:16 AM Very few people hunt anymore... Hunting takes skill and patience... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Rapparee Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:25 PM Do what they do out here, Bobert: get yourself a million-power scope and .50 caliber rifle and snipe for game. But, event today my family does things the hard way: stalking, trailing, not shooting farther than 50 or 100 yards away.... Kendall, I wasn't clear about the knives. We used teeth we'd yanked out of the mouth of a living T-Rex. To do this we had to drop down onto the beastie from a tree, wrap out legs around its neck, and pull one or two of the bigger teeth from its mouth. My brother, who always did things the hard way, used to hide in a hole, jump onto the animal's leg, and rip out some toe claws. Sometimes we'd double-team the thing and do both at once -- THAT makes rodeo bull-riding or tiger wrasslin' something for wussies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge... From: Janie Date: 04 Jun 12 - 11:02 PM Gnu, while I have shot and eaten a few groundhogs that were decimating my veggie garden, and also eaten a couple grabbed from the dogs right after they were shaken hard enough to have theirs neck broken but before the dog otherwise had a go at it, I've mostly stopped for fresh (relatively speaking) roadkills. I don't like killing animals, and if I feel like I have to, I feel obligated to eat the meat. Groundhogs are actually fairly decent eating. I prefer them to possum, squirrel, or rabbit. Haven't myself skinned possums or squirrels. Have skinned groundhogs, cotten-tail rabbits, white-tailed deer and sheep, in addition to groundhog. Rabbits are the easiest to skin, and next are sheep. The hides slip off as if you are peeling off a sock from your foot. Deer is pretty easy, and since the hides are large, having to risk cutting or nicking the hide along the legs or the edges from the belly cut as you pull it away doesn't ruin it for drumheads. Groundhogs do not like to let go of their hides, plus they are small. The hides don't peel off easily and reguire much gentle tugging and careful knife work to free the hide at a number of different points. The hide is very tough, but also very thin, and it is difficult to skin the animal without piercing the hide in inopportune places if what one has in mind is a drumhead. I don't hunt, though I would if I had to. I don't like killing, skinning or butchering animals. I don't make drums anymore, but when I did, I was darn good at it. I've been out of that business for nearly 20 years but there are still people who contact me, wanting me to make them a frame drum. Groundhog hides are excellent hides for small drums, when you can find a groundhog big enough. Since that is hard to do, you don't want to risk any knife nicks at all in any part of of the hide, even the edges. We mostly made ashikos and used deer hides collected from local taxidermists In truth, goat hides make for a better drumhead for the ashikos. Deer hides are thick for the size of the animal, hard to stretch sufficiently, and harder to dry out to "tune." Also less fragile and more durable, and that matters with a traditionally laced drum that is very labor intensive to rehead if the head breaks. I won't go into the dangerous finger and hand infections we repeatedly endured from fleshing and dehairing deerhides we soaked in garbage cans full of water and ashes. The ex and I are both lucky to still have ten digits on each hand. Some day the tale of how I spent my wedding day and honeymoon may seem funny enough to repeat. Anyhoo. I am all but vegetarian from all my years of understanding first hand what is really involved when I stroll the meat counter at the grocery store. There are things I know I can do because I have done them. I value those experiences. I learned those skills by choice, not by necessity. I hope necessity never dictates I repeat them. For classes on preparation of dinosaur parts, we must convene the Mudcat Tavern and implore Mmario to give a few cooking lessons. |
