BS: CGT trap for separating couples!

Subject: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 03:51 PM

Didn't know about this!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 04:23 PM

Thw grounds for divorce in the US is marriage.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 04:26 PM

oh bonzo i hope your not in the doghouse

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 04:39 PM

No, heard about it on a tax webinar today!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 08:50 PM

I would gave thought that were true everywhere, Donuel.

People think half of marriages end in divorce. I read that it's more that in the year they came up with that stat, there were half as many divorces as marriages. Not the same.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 12:09 AM

Although it is not romantic ,i think it is a good idea for couples particularly if they are not married to have a contract dran up specifying the amount of capital each has put in, should there be a bust up

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 04:51 AM

The other important thing from yesterday's tax webinar is that Capital Gains Tax rates may well be brought in line with Income Tax - with a reduction or even abolition of the annual exemption, currently £12,300. So a jump from 28% to 40% or even 45% is possible. Folks holding assets with considerable potential gains may be advised to sell now to minimise tax!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 09:09 AM

however not avoiding paying tax ensures that the gpvernmentcan afford topay nurses moere money, there is a shortage of nurses right now paying more money to nurses might ensure less people die, you think you are giving helpful advice, but your advice is entireley for selfish people, typical of the present conservative administration. why is NHS underfunded, not enough tax payers money, undoubtedly i will be called a childish idiot by the usual suspects ,but what i am advocating is patriotic in the best sense of the word

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 03:29 PM

It would be very prudent to crystalise gains wherever possible - Sandman.If we have a situation where one is sitting on a corporate with pots of cash,

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 03:55 PM

oops, not finished!!

If we have a situation where one is sitting on a corporate with pots of cash, and you're debating whether to do a wind up or not, at the moment if you wound that company up then you are looking at a 20% tax bill on the extraction, assuming that the 10% Entrepreneurs' rate has been used or is not available. Now that is far far cheaper than what might be around the corner.

So instead of winding up, leave the money in the company A, Sandman, then form another company B which will be a property company. Company A will then lend money to company B, to buy property. The beauty of that is the ex trading company is lending which qualities 100% for Business Property Relief, so the shares in the loan company will not be in your estate, so exempt for Inheritance Tax!!

In the property company the shares are in your estate, but the company isn't worth anything because the loans are equal to the property values. If property values do go up, you can use growth shares in the property company, so that any growth goes to the B shares which are owned by your children, Sandman, then you've got a pretty efficient vehicle through to retirement.

The property company will then pay interest on the loan to the lending company which can be paid to the shareholder as dividends, for which the first £2,000 is taxed at 0% Sandman!!!

All in all, good tax planning.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 04:08 PM

"qualities 100% for Business Property Relief" should read "qualifies 100% for Business Property Relief" !!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 06:57 PM

Only a fool does no tax planning, allowances and reliefs are there to be claimed. That is not tax avoidance.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:56 AM

tax planning , more new speak , it is tax avoidance you are avoiding paying for NHS SERVICES free bus travel for the elderlyETC only a fool if you cannot see the consequences of these actiomns. you are as patiotic as the owner of the daily mail who is a tax exile

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:59 AM

people who help others not to pay tax are helping others to destoy services that are preovided by taxpayers money such as the health service accountancy is an evil trade

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: BobL
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:35 AM

I have no problem with paying my fair whack towards those things for which we are all collectively responsible and from which we all directly or indirectly benefit - defence, education, health services and more. But it's the Gov that decides how much I should pay, and if they choose to offer tax relief in particular circumstances, that's part of the deal. Why shouldn't I accept it?

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:40 AM

i will take devils advocate here, because in doing so you are responsible for less money coming in to the exchequer, that means if you fall ill and you cannot afford private medicine then you will have poorer health care, the government is saying pay less tax and have the consequences if you fall ill

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:47 AM

now at the moment the world has an emergency, if you want to die pay less tax

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:53 AM

its the alright i am rich let the poor people die, i can afford private health care feck the poor people let them die.
a lot of people dead in usa, but trumps alright bidens ok too they can afford private heath care

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 04:01 AM

US healthcare
Trump enjoys top Covid care that could cost ordinary Americans millions

Experts say president’s five-star round-the-clock treatment would result ‘catastrophic debt for many people’
Americans pay more for healthcare than any other nation, including during a pandemic. At the same time, Americans rarely know how much a given treatment will cost even as they receive it.
Americans pay more for healthcare than any other nation, including during a pandemic. At the same time, Americans rarely know how much a given treatment will cost even as they receive it. Photograph: Erin Scott/Reuters
Jessica Glenza
Jessica Glenza
@JessicaGlenza
Thu 8 Oct 2020 09.29 BST

Last modified on Fri 9 Oct 2020 18.35 BST

1,858

When most Americans are admitted to the hospital, one concern beyond health is usually at the top of patient’s mind: the cost of their treatment.
At least 22 in Trump’s circle have tested positive for coronavirus
Read more

One American who does not have to worry about this is Donald Trump.

“We have the best medical equipment, we have the best medicines,” said the US president, addressing Americans after he was released from Walter Reed national military medical center, without mentioning the 210,000 Americans killed by Covid-19.

“You’re going to beat it. Don’t let it take over your lives,” he advised.

But Trump was able to skip many of the formalities (and forms) the vast majority of Americans would confront if faced with a similar situation. This may leave many of them wondering – just how much would “the best” medical care have cost me?

The answer, like everything else in American healthcare, is fiendishly complex and very expensive.

“This is truly a catastrophic medical event in terms of going to a hospital and getting lots of specialized care,” said Sara Collins, vice-president for healthcare coverage at the Commonwealth Fund. The result would be for most Americans “catastrophic medical debt for many people”.

Americans pay more for healthcare than any other nation, including during a pandemic. At the same time, Americans rarely know how much a given treatment will cost even as they receive it.

Experts said Trump’s helicopter rides to and from the hospital, diagnostic testing and imaging, experimental prescription drugs, a private suite, round-the-clock care, and additional personal protective equipment required for outings would cost at least hundreds of thousands, and perhaps millions, of dollars.

“I would not be surprised if it were to exceed $1m,” said Dr Bruce Y Lee, a professor at the City University of New York School of Public Health, whose recent work has estimated how much a course of Covid-19 treatment would cost an average American.

Most Americans get care through private insurance. Trump has excellent government insurance and his treatment by the White House Medical Unit is free. Lee used a computational model to assess how much a hospital would charge a regular American’s insurance for Covid-19 treatment. Most insurance would be charged $3,045 over the course of the infection, the model found.

But Trump is not average. He is a high-risk, older man classified as obese, all risk factors for severe disease. Using Lee’s model, someone with Trump’s demographics is more likely to be charged a median $18,579 over the course of a year.

    I would not be surprised if [his care] were to exceed $1m

Bruce Y Lee

Charges vary wildly across the country, though. Hospitals in the American west charge a median of $93,459 to patients in Trump’s age group before negotiated insurance discounts, an analysis by insurance claims database company Fair Health found.

And those are only the most basic costs for treatment of lung-involved disease, such as pneumonia. It does not cover the specialized prescription drugs Trump received.

One of the drugs Trump received was an experimental monoclonal antibody cocktail from Regeneron. This therapy is not available to the public, and may never be approved. Regular Americans cannot access it. Regeneron did not respond to a request for comment on the potential price of the drug.

Monoclonal antibody treatments approved over the last 20 years cost an average of $96,731, according to a study in the Global Journal on Quality and Safety in Healthcare. Trump’s treatment with them would probably cost even more than that, because he took the equivalent of more than three doses of Regeneron’s treatment. So quadruple the cost, because for most medicines, you can’t buy a partial dose. That’s $386,924.

The president also received remdesivir, an antiviral medication with limited availability. Developing countries pay $2,340 per patient for a five-day course of treatment. But, everything healthcare-related is more expensive in the US. The list price for Americans is $3,120 per five-day course.

The cheapest therapy Trump received is dexamethasone, a generic corticosteroid first introduced in the 1950s. At the low range, it costs about $5.

Then there are the helicopter rides. The median charge for an air ambulance was $39,000 in 2016, and Trump took two – $78,000.

There would also probably be charges for any diagnostic testing Trump had, including X-rays and CT scans. An excellent suite and food, which is shown to improve patient outcomes, often costs more. Cleaning services for special outings, like Trump’s motorcade ride, might not be covered. Nor would the cost of personal protective equipment for aides.

“The type of care the president received – there are very, very, very few people in the country, if not the world, who will receive that level of care,” said Lee. “You can’t expect to receive the same types of treatments, the same type of care or potentially the same type of outcomes as the president.”

Insurance would probably cover some, but not all, of the charges listed above. But even if they do, they might not do so right away. Most Americans have a story about a fight with their insurance, which, by the way, is not free.

The average, non-elderly family in America pays $8,200 per year or 11% of their annual income to insurance fees, according to the research group Kaiser Family Foundation. Their employer will also make payments toward insurance, on average around $5,500.

Extraneous costs and the stress of not knowing who will pay them has a phrase in American medicine: “Financial toxicity”. It is often used in discussions of cancer treatment, which are so expensive a remarkable 42.4% of American cancer patients deplete their entire life savings two years after a diagnosis.

And the entire discussion of what insurance would pay is irrelevant if you don’t have insurance, which was the case for 27 million Americans pre-pandemic. Another 12 million have since joined the ranks of the uninsured, thanks to the accompanying economic crisis caused by Covid-19.

Hospitals charge uninsured patients between 1.5-12 times more than what they charge insurance companies, according to a study in Health Affairs. If people do not pay, hospitals can and do pursue patients through courts and credit reporting agencies.

“The majority of Americans don’t have the best treatments, whatever he said, because it’s about access,” said Lee. “The care that he received is available only to a very small minority of Americans.”

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 05:38 AM

You are on your own Sandman, behaving like an idiot as usual!!! What you don't realise from behind your mire is that these reliefs are applied automatically by HMRC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 05:39 AM

If you don't want to get stung a second time, you could always follow Rod Stewart's advice (copied by Stan Laurel in the film Stan and Ollie): "Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house.”

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 08:44 AM

That is hilarious, must look up the film!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 09:17 AM

Bonzo you are partly responsible for the deaths you help people to avoid tax.I hope you can sleep at night

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 09:21 AM

bonzo , howis the nhs funded if it is not through taxation how are old peoples pensions funded if not through taxation. the less tax that is collected the lessmoney is available for the nhs finally when you have to start insulting people it shows you have lost the argument

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:39 AM

So what you are saying Sandman, is that everyone should waive all tax allowances and reliefs granted by Finance Act. You are stark raving bonkers, you are talking absolute drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:46 AM

"Only a fool does no tax planning, allowances and reliefs are there to be claimed. That is not tax avoidance."

Oh yes it is Bonzo, but tax avoidance is not illegal.

I think what you mean it is not tax evasion which is.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:53 AM

Yes indeed, tax evasion is definitely illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 10:57 AM

if you were a true patriot Bonzo and cared about others, those dying from covid because there are not enough nurses and hospitals because they are underfunded, you would not be encouraging people to aviod tax . less tax collected less treatment available, whay you do may or may not be illegal but it is unethical . you indirectly encourage deaths

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 11:06 AM

typical of the conservative mentality, not thinking about the community in general,immoral and unethical .

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 11:17 AM

So what you are saying Sandman is that it's unethical to claim your personal allowance, marriage allowance, capital gains tax allowance, rent a room allowance, interest tax free allowance, dividend tax free allowance - I could go on???

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 11:24 AM

Are you also saying that if you are self employed you should not claim any expenses against your income???????????

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 11:51 AM

What taxes are you paying, Dick? Do you declare all your busking earnings? Have you got receipts to prove it?

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 12:01 PM

Do people declare any income they get from Youtube posting?

I am lead to believe that a few people earn considerable sums of money for blogs.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 12:18 PM

i do not get any income from you tube postings . i am also an old age pensioner.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 12:24 PM

Bonzo is absolutelely unethical he encourages people to not pay tax, then wonders why the NHSis struggling to cope, meanwhile the owner of the daily mail is a tax exile.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 12:43 PM

I'm a pensioner too, but I pay tax. My good lady is a pensioner and she pays tax.

Being a pensioner does not exclude you from tax.

Strange that earnings from busking was not mentioned though.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Mo the caller
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:32 PM

I have no objection to paying my fair share of tax if others do too.
BUT
if I have saved money out of taxed income and the interest is less than inflation I feel aggrieved at being taxed on it
if I buy an asset which increases in nominal value (but not real value) due to inflation I object to paying CGT. Especially as this was changed retrospectively 12 years ago
if my frugal lifestyle means my children have to pay inheritance tax I think the really rich should not escape it with trusts
Not to mention tax havens and multinational like Amazon

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:49 PM

At 16 - 18 I wanted to play guitar in rock bands.
My college principle and parents had other ideas.
So I compromised and studied to be an accountant or solicitor as a fall back day job..

After A levels I went up for one disastrous trainee job interview,
before I became absolutely certain
I did not want to be a complete c£$t for the rest of my working life...

The fault for 'legal' tax avoidance lies with the unnecessarily over complex mystification system of bureaucracy
which serves only the vested lucrative interests of the powerful ruling greedy 'professional class'
who devised maintain, and administrate it
on behalf of themselves and morally corrupt wealthy clients.

The tax and benefits system could be drastically simplified, more rational, effective, and fair;
if the will for change was not persistently ignored...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 01:51 PM

nothing strange at all,
no one has the right to question anyones earnings on a public forum.,
i am not asking Bonzo what he earns as an accountant. accountants generally earn more than folk singers,but that is his PRIVATE business
   neither would i discuss my own or anyone elseS PRIVATE FINANCES including BonzoS earnings,
manitas nasty response is completely out of order
i am not questioning bonzos earnings, or yours or manitas.
i am talking about the ethics of ebncouraging people to not pay tax at a time when the NHS is underfunded
next
i live in ireland,not in england
so as an old age pensioner living in ireland,i do not use the NHS OR CONTIBUTE TAX TOWARDS IT.   
when i had to have medical treatment, in the mid 90s. i had to pay for my stay in hospital, 3 OR 4 days, it cost me 120 euros.
i decided to pay for my HOSPITAL stay, that is my business the HSE has a different system from the NHS
,that is my personal business.

the fsct that i have been out busking once since the lockdown and have been living on my pension is notANYONES yours or manitas business.
i M QUESTIONING THE ETHICS OF ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO AVOID TAX IN THE UKAT THE PRESENT TIME I
I qualify for a uk pension because i paid tax

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Jos
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 02:12 PM

I didn't think Manitas was expecting an answer. Nor did I think he was being nasty. He isn't a nasty person. I took it as just a suggestion that people might examine their own positions before making assumptions about others.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 02:53 PM

Money makes my head go round.

If I got into trying to find ways of paying less tax I reckon it would just spin of my shoulders, and roll off down the road. Won'r risk it.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 02:59 PM

Exactly. I got annoyed at Dick for castigating someone for suggesting that people should take tax relief that is being OFFERED by HMRC. I doubt that anyone on this forum is a millionaire much less a tax evading millionaire. Dick is complaining about the wrong people.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:02 PM

i have exaimined my own position i did not maske any assumption about Bonzos finances, that is his private business, although accountants generally earn more than old age pensioners, or when i was a folk singer relying on it for my living.
i get a pension because i paid tax. Jos you can interpret manitas enquiry into my finances how you like, i interpret I as being out of order, nobodys incomes were being discussed and till manitas made his comment which was a red herring and totally irrelevant, thre same applies to raggytash, the answer is i get an english old age pension because i paid my tax in the UK,

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:08 PM

Wrong, you get a pension because you paid National Insurance Contributions. If the only income you declare is your state pension, then it is almost certainly covered by your Personal Allowance, which you seem to not want people to claim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:19 PM

I don't know if or what pension I'll receive in just over three years..
..hoping I survive the tories and covid...

For a number of years my income is truthfully absolutely zero...

[I have my own reasons for not being able to hold down a 'job',
and won't be accountable to over officious state minions or public opinion].

I reluctantly and angrily opted out of the benefit system ages ago.

My teacher wife was deemed to earn too much for me to get a penny in any benefits.
Despite tory austerity devaluing her salary so much
we exist on precarious credit...

I could however have signed on for NI credits,
but if I did, I have been forced to put up with all the same coercive bullying
pointless time wasting micky mouse back to work schemes,
and stigma,
of all the poor folks struggling to claim full living benefits...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:21 PM

"I'd have been forced..."

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 03:30 PM

Actually, if I'm nearly 62 now.. what will be my retirement age...???

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 04:23 PM

At least 66 possibly higher by the time you get to 66 Punkfolkrocker.

Had my good lady been just 4 months older she would have qualified for a full state pension at the age of 60. As it is she had to wait a full 6 years and 1 month before she got the pension she had paid into since she was 16.

As the full state pension is now £164.35 per week she has effective been denied the equivalent of £51,000+ for which she contributed week in week out, month after month, year after year.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Jos
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 04:35 PM

I think you may find that the 'full state pension' paid to those who retired at 60 is considerably less than £164.35 a week.
If not, I have been underpaid for years.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 04:41 PM

I defer to your greater knowledge Jos.

However I doubt if over the remainder of her life she will pick up the £51,000.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 05:16 PM

If you are savvy enough to minimise your tax liability via the laws of the land, that's what you're expected to do and that's beyond reproach. What is not beyond reproach is multimillionaires hiring armies of accountants who strive to find loopholes in the law and/or who put their clients' wealth into tax havens, or who minimise their tax liability via being a non-Dom. The squabbles in this thread represent, par excellence, divide-and-rule. Let's not let that happen here.

I often refer to John Seymour, the self-sufficiency guru who wasn't exactly a lefty. His view was that income tax was evil. You're taxing people's efforts, their blood, sweat and tears. What a disincentive that is. Instead, he was an advocate of a graduated land tax. The people with real power are the big landowners and big landlords. Their power needs to be staunched, and the biggest landowners should take the biggest hits. In his book Bring Me My Bow, he set out how he saw his tax working. The upshot, he said, was that the few massive landlords would shed their assets so quickly under the punitive land tax regime that we would soon become a nation of millions of landlords, each owing a piece of land appropriate to their needs and to what they could usefully get from that land to make a decent living. You'd have to work damned hard to make your parcel of land pay, and that would be good both for you and for the environment. Plenty of flaws with the notion that you don't need to tell me about, but I'd far sooner think outside the box that way than accuse fellow non-millionaire Mudcat members of causing poverty or NHS failings. Wrong target, in m'humble.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 05:23 PM

I should add that she has also been denied 6 years of retirement.

Not having to get up a silly o'clock to drive 100 miles to attend a meeting and then drive 100 miles back home and then to have to do a full days work.

Not having the "luxury" of saying I don't HAVE to do anything today so I'm going to sit the settee and scratch me arse.

Not having the "luxury" of deciding to do whatever she chooses.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 03:49 AM

"What is not beyond reproach is multimillionaires hiring armies of accountants who strive to find loopholes in the law and/or who put their clients' wealth into tax havens, or who minimise their tax liability via being a non-Dom."

Absolutely right.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 06:53 AM

i paid contributions and tax

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 10:02 AM

Tax and benefit laws should not be made so deliberately over complex,
that loopholes exist in the first place...

But it's a self perpetuating problem, devised and maintained for the benefit
of legal and accountancy professions...

They gain too much much profit and social status
to allow rational simplifying changes to their entrenched 'traditional' beurocratic system...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 12:50 PM

I thought I had read a few years ago that the UK tax regulations ran to 11,000 pages.A quick search came up with an article from 2015 saying it was 17,000 pages. The same article said Hong Kong regs were 276 pages.

I think we can all agree that the UK regs could be shorter

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 02:48 PM

Marriage allowance is a tax perk that benefits couples where one partner earns less than the personal allowance. If you're married or in a civil partnership, you can transfer any unused personal allowance from the lower-earning partner to the higher earner. Up to £1,250 can be transferred in 2020-21, potentially saving you up to £250. To qualify, the higher earner must be a 20% taxpayer.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 02:50 PM

Everyone can take advantage of their annual tax-free Isa allowance. For the 2020-21 tax year, you can deposit up to £20,000 into Isa accounts. This is unchanged from 2019-20. This can all be put in a cash Isa, a stocks and shares Isa, or split between both cash and stocks and shares.

What this means is that you do not pay any tax on interest earned by the Isa!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 02:54 PM

Capital gains of up to £12,300 are tax-free in 2020-21. Married couples and civil partners who own assets jointly can claim a double allowance of £24,600. Remember, if you don't use the allowance within the tax year, it's lost forever. You can't add your tax-free allowances together for different years.

So that means a potential tax saving of £3,444 for an individual, and £6,888 for a married couple!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 03:35 PM

see what I mean...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Jos
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 04:32 PM

"Everyone can take advantage of their annual tax-free Isa allowance."

They can only do that if they have any money left, after paying for their daily needs such as housing, heating in winter, and food.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 04:50 PM

Nothing like stating the obvious!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 06:47 PM

ISAs have lost their lustre ever since the government gave us all a £1000 tax-free savings interest allowance. In fact, many companies who used to offer 5-year fixed rate ISAs no longer offer them. You'd have to have massive savings at today's ultra-low interest rates to reach that £1000 threshold, so those ISAs just aren't worth it. Mrs Steve and I have a five-year fixed rate ISA each which are earning 2.3%. Beat that!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 06:57 PM

The yield on my pension fund averages out at 7%.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Dec 20 - 10:33 PM

I'm gonna have to start looking at those "write off most of your debts - legal govt scheme" pop up ads...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 03:15 AM

if i had money to invest , i would want to know what it was being invested in ,
if a person does not do that their money could be invested in the armaments industry or monsanto.
i have more respect for people like dolly parton who use their money to help others.
money is a tool it is not something to worship.
people who boast about what their money is invested in, are    selfish people whose consideration is not the ethics of their investment., but how much it yields
bonzo do you know what your money is invested in, that is provides the amount you boats about

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 03:28 AM

Every penny of course.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 04:04 AM

We have twice yearly meetings with our investment advisor - now on Zoom of course, and even in this unusual year he has maintained fund growth   even after monthly draw-downs!!!

You see Sandman, you do need a good investment advisor!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 04:35 AM

no i do not , my motives are not just greed, someone who boasts about their investments are greedy and those whose main consideration is making money for the sake of it are generally speaking without any moral consideration on how their investment has an effect on other communities,
when you talk to your investment advisor. bonzo his considerations are purely making money for you, nothing else, no moral considerations, you Bonzo are a money grabbing person.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 04:41 AM

Planning the timing of expenditure on fixtures, fittings, plant and equipment carefully can ensure clients make the most of the current temporary increase to Annual Investment Allowance (AIA) to claim a 100% tax deduction.

The 100% Annual Investment Allowance amount for expenditure on plant and machinery was temporarily increased from £200,000 to £1 million between 1 January 2019 and 31 December 2020, and was due to revert back to £200,000 from 1 January 2021 onwards. However, the government announced on 12 November 2020 that, to stimulate investment in UK manufacturing and support business confidence, the expiry date for the £1 million annual allowance will be extended by a further year to 1 January 2022.

The extension to the temporary increase of the AIA to 1 January 2022 is a welcome incentive to support and encourage businesses investing in plant and machinery, particularly during this uncertain period. By extending the limit for a further period, businesses can plan their capital expenditure over the next year to maximise the 100% tax relief available for qualifying expenditure.

So buy your new plant before 01/01/22 and you stand to save up to £152,000 in tax if a company and more if a sole trader!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 05:06 AM

Anyone who has an occupational or private pension scheme has ‘investments’. That’s not ‘greed’, it is prudence - individuals saving in an investment scheme to provide themselves with an income in retirement, and thus avoiding the possibility of becoming a burden on the Benefits System (State Pension excluded).

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 05:29 AM

Absolutely, Sandman reminds me of a boy at school whose equally stupid ideas caused him to be frequently beaten up!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 06:20 AM

NO I am talking about morals and ethics and knowing what your investments are and not just considering making money but considerring whether your investments are ethical. if you do not know whay your investments are you have no control morally or financially.
Bonzo i had boxing lessons i was never beaten up
Bsckwoodsman
i paid my tax. paid my stamps, a state pension is my entitlement. people who boast on this forum about how much money their investments make are greedy.
stop muddying the waters, nobody is [apart from you discussing prudence] my idea about having moral considerations when investing money are not stupid, they are ethical if bonzo considers ethics stupid that tell us a lot about Bonzo
.Ballad of Accounting
Ewan MacColl, Peggy Seeger
In the morning we built the city
In the afternoon walked through its streets
Evening saw us leaving
We wandered through our days as if they would never end
All of us imagined we had endless time to spend
We hardly saw the crossroads and small attention gave
To landmarks on the journey from the cradle to the grave,
Cradle to the grave, cradle to the grave
Did you learn to dream in the morning?
Abandon dreams in the afternoon?
Wait without hope in the evening?
Did you stand there in the traces and let 'em feed you lies?
Did you trail along behind them wearing blinkers on your eyes?
Did you kiss the foot that kicked you, did you thank them for
Their scorn?
Did you ask for their forgiveness for the act of being born,
Act of being born, act of being born?
Did you alter the face of the city?
Make any change in the world you found?
Or did you observe all the warnings?
Did you read the trespass notices, did you keep off the grass?
Did you shuffle up the pavements just to let your betters pass?
Did you learn to keep your mouth shut, were you seen but never heard?
Did you learn to be obedient and jump to at a word,
Jump to at a word, jump to at a word?
Did you demand any answers?
The who and the what and the reason why?
Did you ever question the setup?
Did you stand aside and let 'em choose while you took second best?
Did you let 'em skim the cream off and give to you the rest?
Did you settle for the shoddy and did you think it right
To let 'em rob you right and left and never make a fight,
Never make a fight, never make a fight?
What did you learn in the morning?
How much did you know in the afternoon?
Were you content in the evening?
Did they teach you how to question when you were at the school?
Did the factory help you, were you the maker or the tool?
Did the place where you were living enrich your life and then
Did you reach some understanding of all your fellow men,
All your fellow men, all your fellow men?
Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Ewan Maccoll
Ballad of Accounting lyrics © Figs D Music, Stormking Music Inc

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 06:28 AM

putting aside for one moment the morality of not knowing what you are investing in,
it is not fincially prudent as backwoodsman suggests to invest in a private pernsion scheme ,look atthe amonut of people who hav lost their money and savings when there has been a slump. i would not trust bonzos so called financial adviser s for one minute, it seems like some unfortunate investors got their karma

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 06:50 AM

Think I'll just stuff my dough under the mattress then, Dick...

Some of the most ethical investments can be made with Sharia-compliant companies. For example, they never invest your money in gambling, pornography, alcohol or tobacco companies and they don't speculate in extreme-risk investments of any kind. They pay "expected-profit" rates rather than interest (same thing in effect) and, for small to moderate savers, offer some of the best returns. New products are carefully vetted by a supervisory board before they are offered to savers to ensure that they are Sharia-compliant. Like other savings accounts, they are protected by the FSCS. Not just for Muslims, either!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 07:17 AM

You are talking absolute fucking rubbish as usual Sandman, hasn't your wife got any chores for you to do???

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 08:06 AM

bonzo, when you have to start insulting people you have lost the argument
,Steve, i am not advising you to put your money anywhere, that is your decision
i am saying that if i was to invest, i would consider the morality of investing in certain industries. the only financial advice i would give is to make the judgement oneself, and to take in to account ethics as well as the financial safety of the investnent .
there are plenty of crooks and con men and financial advisers, these same fincial advisers are not there when their advice turns out to be crap
Bonzo, this morning i have painted and cut some wooden sheets and put some insulation up ,what have you done, Bonzo
BONZO would you be happy to invest your money if it showed a good profit in companies that carry out experiments on animals ,particulasrly dogs? Or in greyhound breeding [if it showed a good profit] knowing what happens to greyhounds that are not good enough at racing. for once just answer the question

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 08:58 AM

Let's all just accept that we all have to breathe the polluted air and just do our best with a conscience. Your concertina reeds contain copper, Dick. Do you know where it was mined and by whom?

I once (and only the once) went out with a vegan. She spent much of the evening berating people who had anything at all to do with animal products of any kind. I pointed out to her that the beer I'd bought her had probably been clarified with fishgut finings, and then I asked her about her leather shoes...

Oh well, I didn't like her much anyway...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 09:28 AM

Steve , you can invest money ethically ,but you have to be in control of your investment to do so,
alternatively you can spend your money or even give it away, that is called philanthopy,
you do not have to invest ,but if you do , for example, right now you could invest your money in vaccination companies or companuies that make mask or sanitiser all relatively harmless

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 10:05 AM

Investing in vaccination companies is just cashing in on a bad situation!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 11:05 AM

Remember the musicians wanted ads in the back of Melody Maker and the NME back in the early 70s..

"No Bread Heads"...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 11:45 AM

...and we’re still being pestered to play for fuck-all.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 12:07 PM

bonzo , quite wrong if you wish to invest which i do not but you clearly do, invest in something that helps people and that is ethical.how is investing in a vaccine that saves lives unethical
you have not answered nmy question about greyhounds

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 12:30 PM

BWM - yeah.. but it's made up for with all the free drugs and groupies...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 12:49 PM

...and ‘the exposure’, don’t forget that! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 12:50 PM

Sandman, I do NOT need your pontifications as to how my pension fund should be invested. It is invested to preserve value and to last as long as possible - live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 01:10 PM

The history of crooked managers, agents, and record company accountants & lawyers...

Keep the young long haired randy oiks distracted with parties, drugs, and groupies;
so they don't think to ask about where their royalties are going...

At some point in his youth, our bonz had to look hard at his guitar,
then decide which side he was on...

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 20 - 03:28 PM

was that before he went dog doo dah,, ithink bonzo is like the urban spaceman, he doesnt really exist, could he be jim carroll .

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Dec 20 - 12:16 PM

Anyway, no news yet of any extension of the January 31 deadline for submitting UK tax returns. I dare say we shall be tearing our hair out trying to meet the deadline for all clients, only to be told on 25 January that the deadline has been extended for a month!!!

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Dec 20 - 05:04 AM

"What this means is that you do not pay any tax on interest earned by the Isa!!."

True enough - but the interest you get is hardly worth the effort.

The trouble with most of these things is that the saving you get by searching out the loopholes is liable to be pretty minimal for most people. Big savings only come in if you're loaded, and in no way need the money.

A radical simplification that gets rid of all the loopholes exploited by rich people is needed. I can't see why it couldn't be done. A maximum generic ceiling for the total amount you could save by all of them lumped together could be imposed, and set at a reasonably low figure.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 08:27 AM

30 years ago I saw stats on UK divorce that were 30% of marriages end that way, and 50% of second marriages.
As one GF long ago opined "people gravitate to the familiar", so if it was wrong first time, it is more likely to be wrong the next time.

but

My latest pair of boots were identical to the pair I was wearing, and the same as the previous ones. How's that for gravitating to the familiar? Partly, I say in my defence - because COVID precludes trying them on, in the cheapo store I frequent. And despite the cheapness, they are water-proof ish. Which was not the case at a supposedly up-market Store at the same price! So gravitate is sometimes an analogue for experience.

I had a really nice biscuit at 11am and I am gravitating..........................

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 03:23 PM

HMRC confirmed today - no extension to tax return deadline - fuck them.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jan 21 - 11:17 AM

Once taxpayers know how much tax is owed, they can set up a payment plan to help spread the cost of their tax liabilities, up to the value of £30,000. They can use the self-serve Time to Pay facility to set up monthly direct debits online. Interest will be applied to any outstanding balance from 1 February 2021.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 21 - 11:35 AM

HMRC confirmed today - no extension to tax return deadline - fuck them.

Isn't that a little harsh?
I assume you're talking about personal income tax returns with a deadline of 31st January 2021.
These are for the tax year ended 5 April 2020. So the taxpayer will have had more than 9 months to get the figures together. If someone has left it this late, it is hardly fair to blame the government.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM

Do you have any idea how much more time it takes to sort out clients' disgusting little bits of paper and convert into figures suitable to report on their tax returns from a remote location - I can tell you that it can take double the time normally taken in the office. In the past we sit down with the client to sort out queries in an hour or so then finish, we now because of social distancing and lockdown regulations, have to send an email which if we are lucky, is answered a week later.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:02 AM

Something worth remembering about the Rent a Room Scheme:

From HMRC guidance note HS223 Rent a room scheme 2020:

If your gross receipts are more than £7,500 you can choose how you want to work out your tax.

Method A
You pay tax on your actual profit – your total receipts less any expenses and capital allowances.

Method B
You pay tax on your gross receipts over the Rent a Room limit – that is, your gross receipts minus £7,500, or £3,750. You cannot deduct any expenses or capital allowances if you choose this method.

So for example:
Chris rents out a room in his own home. The rent is £200 a week plus contributions to heating and light. His gross receipts for 6 April 2019 to 5 April 2020 are £10,600 (£10,400 rent plus £200 for the heating and light).

Chris has expenses of £9,000:

if Chris uses his actual profit, method A, he pays tax on £1,600 (£10,600 minus £9,000)

if Chris uses his gross receipts over the Rent a Room limit, method B, he pays tax on £3,100 (£10,600 minus £7,500)

It is better for Chris to pay tax on his actual profit, using method A. If Chris had previously asked to pay tax using method B, he will need to tell HMRC that he wants to change back to paying tax on his actual profit, method A.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:05 AM

People who have to file their own tax info have known for months what is required of them. If they fail to return the information then they have to suffer the consequences.

My good lady does it for our son who is self employed and it will be done in full, on time.

Subject: RE: BS: CGT trap for separating couples!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 12:24 PM

It is better for Chris to pay tax on his actual profit, using method A. If Chris had previously asked to pay tax using method B, he will need to tell HMRC that he wants to change back to paying tax on his actual profit, method A.
Quite right too. Otherwise taxpayers will try to concentrate their claimable expenses in alternate tax years, and swap back and forth between the two systems.