BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 03:44 PM

Wonderful Kendall. That is always a plus for sure. You should be good your watches were all cleaned up with a COA but it is good to have someone local for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 11:13 AM

My Elgin model 5, dated 1922 - just acquired. Not a particularly rare watch, unadjusted, 17 jewels - but this is in superb condition:

Elgin model 5, 1922 - face

Elgin model 5, 1922 - movement

Elgin model 5, 1922 - case inner

Elgin model 5, 1922 - case inner

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 12:15 PM

Well I grabbed a plane and took off out west this weekend to take my 2 year old grandson to ride "Thomas the Train" at the train museum. My gosh he had his overhauls on, his train hat and a RR watch with a chain. If you asked him what time it was he would pull out his watch and say "All aboard"
LOL ... then I got papa and I would have to pull out my watch and say "All Aboard"

We rode trains all day long, and fire trucks, and horses at my kids ranch. Total overload for a 2 year old. He was in heaven. He had to sleep with his "Papa's watch"

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 01:20 PM

I always enjoyed the railroad museum in Sacramento. They had a Pullman car set up with dim lights, a jiggler to give the car the proper 'feel' and authentic-sounding night sounds, the young'uns liked it too. The gift shop has RR peaked caps, and the kids had to have them.
Somewhere I have a Pullman face towel with the name in blue, found in an old trunk. Also a CPR towel.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 02:25 PM

1944 Hamilton 992B with extremely rare 151 Melamine dial
note the cracks that is very common. Hamilton made the 151 dials for less than a year

This was a steal also

rare 992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 03:42 PM

Late 30's 23 Jeweled Waltham Vanguard lever set RR watch
some dings in the dial but stable and it is dead nuts accurate
140 bucks if anyone wants it. 10K rolled gold star case

front

inside

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 05:06 PM

note the vanguards center wheel and the wheels under the jewels, they are 10K or 14K gold (don't remember what my watchmaker told me) as are all Vanguards .. That is how high end the Vanguards were made. They are a wonderful watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 05:14 PM

Oh and why gold wheels, simple it won't pit or corrode with RR use. It is not a decorative thing

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 04:59 AM

Sounds like you had a great time with your family, Dan! My younger grandson likes me to hold a ticking watch to his ear - but he keeps asking for the loudest ones, and the Elgin 1890 18s in the silveroid case fits the bill!

Nice Hamilton and Waltham there too - that Vanguard's a peachy movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:28 PM

If anyone ever wanted a 992b now is the time on flea bay. I never ever ever in 30 years saw them go at the prices as low as you can get one now. Normally 500+ now you can nail a steel cased for about 200 or little more. Wow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 12:29 PM

Really is nice Will, I just sold it on flea bay for 225
and bought yup another 992b LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,Q as guest
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:07 PM

One of the Hamilton 992 models had a gold center wheel- worth looking for.
Some Hamilton 950 models had a gold train!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 01:59 PM

Q yes I sold one of mine with the gold center wheel for 250

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 02:11 PM

Here is what the 1946 Hamilton 992B looks like now that I recased and changed the dial

front

back

inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 05:38 PM

Now that, Dan, that is truly a thing of beauty!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 06:18 PM

Now waitadamnminute! That thing was made four years after I was, and yer calling it OLD !!??!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 21 Sep 12 - 06:53 PM

those bar over the crown cases are beautiful for sure. I had quite the time finding an original dial in that condition but I was glad I waited for the right one to come around.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:26 PM

I bid in two Hamilton Model 17 (bar over crown) cases, complete with crystals. I will replace the case which has a name on the back, and store the other for use if I get another good 992B with unsightly case.
These cases don't appear on 992Bs for the Canadian market since the movements were sold in tins to be cased in Canada.

Dunno about cross border shopping for watches in 1940-1970, but I imagine it was not too uncommon.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:52 PM

Of the major American watch makers in the late 19th and early 20th century, it seems that Walthams were the most common to be shipped to the UK, with in descending order of numbers - Elgins, then Hamiltons and then Illinois. The upshot of all that is that, these days, the most common US-made mechanical pocket watch to be found in auctions and on eBay over here is the Waltham in its various models. Elgins are less common but still plentiful when compared with Hamilton, Howard and Illinois.

I'm in the process of acquiring my second Bunn Special - should have it in a fortnight or so - in absolutely mint condition. It's a private sale. On UK eBay at this precise moment, there's not a single Illinois watch for sale! I check for them regularly and they rarely appear over here. Far more in the US - but customs duty and shipping made them very expensive to acquire...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:55 PM

It just occured to me; Dan is the first person who ever cleaned my clock for me, and made me like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 06:14 PM

Q
you will see a lot of them factory cased in Ontario. Many of the Jewelers would travel to buffalo, buy them cased and take then back. At your end you see more of the Fortuna cased ones due to import duties. Will the Bunn Special is a superb watch. I am still waiting to find an early 23J with the wind indicator. My wallet won't let me yet LOL

My watchmaker is taking one of my 992B cased watches and making a display back for me. I been wanting my carry 992B to have a glass back so I can enjoy the running movement so that will be cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 06:16 PM

There are four watches that every collector should have. A Bunn Special, A Hamilton 992B, A Waltham Vanguard, and an Elgin BW Raymond.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 06:17 PM

I am now up to nine Hamilton 992B's LOL .. I sold a bunch of older Hamiltons and stocked up on them. Kinda obsessed with the watch :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 08:34 PM

I haven't checked on duties and excise on U.S. to Canada sales through the years. At times it was high on jewelry and watches.

Wadsworth cased a number of Canadian Hamiltons in gf cases with the bar, essentially duplicating the factory-cased Model 17s. I don't know if other case companies made a model with the bar above crown, but I haven't seen any Fortunes with the bar.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 09:27 PM

fortunes not that I know of, I don't think they made a bar over the case one either. But the bar over the case is what you want for sure. I am glad you got them my friend

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 09:30 PM

Just have one Bunn Special, a 21j 60 hour. They are adj. to six positions and temp, like the Hamiltons. I would like to have one of the 23j gems, but doubt if I can ever afford it.
Two!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 09:47 PM

I am holding off, someday I will stumble across one that needs work and be able to snag it. boy they are expensive, way outta my league. I guess if I dumped all my 992B's I maybe able to but ... naw, the hunt is the fun

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 11:27 PM

Q
if you want a glass back on the case with the initials I will have my Amish friend make you one. They are cool, you can watch the movement and enjoy that also. That's what he is doing with my case that was nuts up on the back. I saw a couple he did ... beautiful

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 01:28 PM

That's an idea for my Bunn (glass back). The case has initials.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 02:21 PM

What he does is carefully cut out the back and install a glass crystal. You now have a salesman sample case and can enjoy the movement running also. Mine like your had an inscription that the guy scratched off "to George from Emily" I guess the relationship didn't work cause he took great pains to sand it off. I was going to recase it but the rest is perfect and would make a perfect glass back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 02:47 PM

My lastest, a 1950 992B with another perfect original Montgomery dial. No. 17 bar over crown case.

This is my 9th LOL

I sold a couple of older high end Hamiltons to pay for my obsession :-)

1950

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 10:47 PM

Well a guy just bought my Hamilton 935 so yup going to buy number 10 of Hamilton 992b ... why .. investment grade watch. By the time my grandson gets older they will make a dent in the college tuition for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 04:18 AM

Dan - they just get better - great 992B!

The second Bunn Special I'm getting has inscriptions in the inner case - getting a crystal fitted sounds like a great idea. I might think hard about that one...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 04:34 AM

Another rolled gold watch chain arrived this morning. Looks great on the 992B you sold me, Dan.

See, this is the problem with these watches - each watch needs a good chain to wear with it - then each chain needs a nice fob - and then you have to have the waistcoat (vest in the US) to show it all off.

Damn - so that's where my pension's been going...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 11:09 AM

Well, I got Bunn Special No. 2 today. Some pics:

Bunn Special 1923 - face

Bunn Special 1923 - movement

Bunn Special 1923 - case inner

Bunn Special 1923 - case outer

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 11:17 AM

That is an absolute beauty, all original and that dial looks like it came right from the factory yesterday ... absolutely beautiful watch Will a fine addition to your collection. You rarely see them in that perfect shape

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM

The case is a Dueber and, although the movement is a 16s - exactly the same as my other Bunn Special - this case is slightly smaller than the other one.

The crystal is a little loose in the bezel, but seems reasonably stable. Any tips for making it a little snugger?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 03:54 PM

1943 Hamilton 992b original enamel dial
43

will
a small drop of crazy glue on the side of the crytal won't hurt a thing. I have done it a dozen times. It can be removed easy .. just don't get it on the threads

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 03:56 PM

Will the Bunns were not cased at the factory, the movement was sold to a jeweler and the customer purchased whatever case he wanted. You will see them in many different style of cases. You cases are absolutely authentic to the watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 04:08 PM

dang I am jealous you got a 978, they are hard to find ...
good job Will

by the way, my watchmaker gets ticked at me when I use crazy glue on the crystals however, most amish don't have nail polish remover LOL
it works fine and is easy to get off ... I like it cause it drys clear and holds

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 08:16 AM

Thanks for the crystal/glue tip, Dan. So far, the crystal seems pretty stable, but I'll know what to do if it works looser.

By the way, am I right in supposing that Burlington movements in the 1920s were, in fact, made by Illinois? There are one or two around on eBay and the prices look good. If so, might be worth going for.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 07:18 PM

Will
No on the Burlingtons, they were low end watches even the 21J I don't believe the US railroads accepted them

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:57 AM

Ah - thanks Dan - I'll give them a miss!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:03 AM

Hey Will
check out this ebay find, great movements
movement
18S 23J Waltham Vanguard apart, 16S Hamilton apart, Waltham KW/KS complete, 16S Rockford, Illinois 18S missing balance wheel, 16S Illinois complete, 18S Waltham PS Bartlett complete, 18S Hamilton 940 complete with dial but missing hands, 18S Elgin Convertable missing balance wheel & bridge and hands, Nice Illinois 12S marked the autocraft, 18S Hamilton 924, Southbend 12S 411

I will put together some all original watches since I have cases

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM

I have the parts to get them all living again ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:20 AM

Not a pocket watch but I found my missus one of the I am not a crook richard nixon watches where the eyes shift back and forth .. Original from 1973. She is thrilled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:43 AM

Woah - what a collection, Dan! You're going to have a great time getting them all back into their proper shape. I often see movements and sometimes cases on eBay, but I'm always wary of going for them because of the cost of bringing them up to scratch.

And the Nixon watch sounds like a hoot!

There's an auction house auction coming up here in the next few days and someone has obviously wanted to get rid of some watches from his collection - some Hamiltons: a 974 special, a 936, a 940, an unspecified model from 1883 (probably a Model 1). And there's also an Illinois "A. Lincoln" model and an Elgin "Father Time"... All seemingly in apple pie order.

The auctions estimates are all around £80-£120/£150 - if you were going for one, which would it be? The Illinois A. Lincoln looks interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:53 AM

Dan - here are some pics from the auction catalogue:

Hamilton 947 special

Hamilton 936

Hamilton 940

Hamilton (model 1?)

Illinois "A. Lincoln"

Elgin "B.W. Raymond" - NOT "Father Time" as in my previous post!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 11:50 AM

No on the 936, it is not all original Will

Yes on the 940 it is a Motor Barrel one so it is pretty good
the best buy is the unmarked, that is also a 940 but an earlier model like one I have ... if you get it 80 - 100 grab it but no higher. I can fix you up with a 940 that is all original and early

No on the Illinois, Let me look at the movements when I get them, I maybe be able to fix you up there also my brother

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM

I don't collect Illinois you do bro. However, I have tons of Illinois original parts. I maybe able to make the all original Illinois for you from one of the movements. If so I will give it to you so hold off on the Illinois. the 947 will go for huge bucks I think .. that is a pretty scarce Hamilton. What disturbs me is they replated the cases (not what collectors want to see) but if you could nail it ... that is a rare one. Hopefully however no one will notice the unmarked Hamilton is an old 940 and you maybe able to steal it cheap