BS: Why are we still building with wood

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: dianavan
Date: 06 May 07 - 02:41 PM

You're right about that, kendall, and anyone who builds in a bog has no right to complain about mildew. Same goes for those who think they can have the forest for a backyard and not be effected by forest fires.

RE: asphalt roads

Everytime they have to dig up the road to repair water lines, etc., the road has to be repaired. My daughter mentioned that in Denmark, the roads are built with paving stones. When repairs are done they simply remove the stones, set them aside and replace them when finished.

I think the biggest problem in N.A. is our 'disposable' mindset coupled with the concept of short term gain. Nobody wants to consider the long term or invest the money to insure sustainability. They would rather put out fires as the need arises. I see this in every aspect of our social structure. In the long term its a waste of human resources as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 06 May 07 - 02:43 PM

I think doing what was always done probably works in places where people have been for a while..but in US they came from all over and built some mighty inappropriate things for their new areas...You have to be careful with concrete acting as damns in flood situations...although good wood constrution would too..my concern is safety right now and not totally ecological..I am from a timber town and want to see timber prosper and be used..

And as for stone being expensive..there are ways to use it in forms and add cement or concerete..forget which..to make a strong and stury house..great in areas of lots of rocks that are suitable.

And an Iranian engineer came up with a way of baking mud huts inthe traditional Iranian style..baked with a stove from the inside..that made them quite indestructible...if I were on trhe prairies I would want at least a partially dug in house with a dome roof...

look at the pretty stone houses in Pennsyylvania and Quebec...

And as mentioned in other threads, we have lots of people with financial problems, unemployment, etc. Why aren't some of them being trained in masonry, as well as instilaltion of solar panels, etc.... mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 02:56 PM

Why was my post removed from this thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 02:57 PM

T%his is just the start of what will be one very long, trying day for some bloody clone out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 02:57 PM

Fuckin' count on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 03:07 PM

The post said in essence (I should know to copy intended posts because so nmany of the fuckin' things just seem to disappear for some unknown reason)--




'"Hm, mg - why not do just the teeniest bit of research before posting? It might stop you looking like an ass."

MG has started many threads that have led to good back and forth, and it usually stays that way until some cad like you comes along. You owe the lady an apology. Period.'


So, how long until THIS post disappears?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 07 - 03:34 PM

From the flying concrete site. (Also see the US Dept. of Interior's Concrete Manual):

Concrete is strong in compression and the best way to take advantage of this property is by building structures that are inherently self supporting and don't need a lot of iron reinforcing. Since most building here in Mexico is with concrete, it is easier to let your imagination go wild. Local builders have been working with ferro-cement, styrofoam panels, plastered straw bale, and soil-crete. I have had the most success with light weight concrete. Light weight concrete differs from heavy concrete by it's use of naturally light weight materials (aggregates) such as pumice (volcanic stone) in place of the sand and gravel used in ordinary structural concrete mixes. It only weighs half as much.

Not all concrete is ugly, hard, cold and difficult to work with. There exists a whole range of light weight concretes "which have a density and compressive strength very similar to wood.They are easy to work with, can be nailed with ordinary nails, cut with a saw, drilled with woodworking tools, easily repaired . We believe that ultra-light weight concrete is one of the most fundamental bulk building materials of the future." A Pattern Language

Light weight concrete is about one half the weight of hard structural concrete. It can be mixed from a variety of light weight aggregates including vermiculite, perlite, scoria, and pumice. Some form of suitable aggregate is available most everywhere in the world. Our locally available aggregate here in San Miguel is a type of pumice (espumilla or arenilla) which we typically mix 8:1 or 10:1 (by volume) with cement for walls, and 5:1 for roofs. Most lightweight concrete has a good R-value and is a good insulator of heat and sound. It is used as soundproofing in subway stations. It has tremendous sculptural possibilities and is ideal for monolithic, wall-roof construction.

I feel that we need more intelligent building systems. I'm looking for a home that lasts 200 years, that you can maintain and remodel easily, and that uses mostly locally available, abundant materials. Light weight concrete fits the bill here in Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 04:11 PM

I'd think that that may be the same type of concrete that was/is (?) used to build boats. It's put on over a layer of something that looks like chicken fencing.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:05 PM

"Ferro-cement on the Homestead
by Ken Davison

While we have very little money to do what we want to get done on our homestead, we do not feel that we are "poor". How can anyone be "poor" when they own their own land and grow their own food and all their vehicles are paid off? While we don't think of ourselves as poor, we still have very little cash and many projects. We have found that you can do projects with little money and lots of labor, or you can do them with little labor and lots of money. We usually have more time than we do money, so we are constantly looking for ways to complete projects and save.

My experience with ferro-cement started as a young man, by reading about how to build ferro-cement boats. The idea of using chicken wire and cement construction is not at all new. The old timers called houses with this type of construction "Chicken wire & cement houses", which pretty well described them. The main difference between the old "Chicken wire" walls and the "ferro-cement" is the amount of chicken wire used. In the old type of construction, only one layer of chicken wire was used and this was just to hold the cement to the side of the wall. With ferro-cement, 2 to 5 layers of 1 inch mesh chicken wire are used, depending on where they are being used and what strength is required. Cement is the strongest when it is less than one-forth of an inch away from steel reinforcing. In ferro-cement, the overlapped chicken wire is the reinforcing, and all of this wire is what gives it its great strength and ability to withstand stress. By having several layers of chicken wire, with the cement being forced to fill in all the spaces, a very strong cement structure is the result.

If this is sounding pretty simple, it's because it is simple, but it works. There are many ferro-cement boats, still in service that are over 50 years old. Think of the stresses these boats have to endure while on the high seas. Hopefully your house or barn will never be subjected to this kind of stress. If it ever is, I don't want to be in your neighborhood! If the use of chicken wire and cement for outside walls has been around for such a long time, how well does it hold up? Even with one layer of wire, the walls work well. Many walls never had any sort of "sealer" applied and many were never even painted, and yet most lasted for as long as the house was used. Many did develop cracks and had to be repaired from time to time, however. This was not due to flaws in the cement work, but from the house settling as it aged."

from the www

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: dianavan
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:12 PM

Speaking of chicken wire. My brother, who works in construction, tells me that the building boom around Phoenix is producing some incredible shoddy construction. He says that unlike most places, the stucco is applied over chicken wire and little else.

He was saying its a thieves paradise. He says all you would need is a sledge hammer and a wire cutter to enter most of the newly built homes.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:43 PM

That's how we get in if we have to. That or a chainsaw. B and E is NO problem if ya have the tools. That is why I have always wondered why people don't just make houses out of styrofoam.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:43 PM

how do they get permits to do stuff like that? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Azizi
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:59 PM

"One of the three little pigs had it right."

I never realized how much of an influence fairy tales were. I never really doubted the morale of the three little pigs story-that brick is the safest type of house there is.

I've always lived in brick houses. And when I went looking for a house to buy, I never considered buying anything but brick. I think that the big bad wolf for me was fire.

In case of fire, aren't brick houses the safest structure to live in?

Of course, I've gathered from seeing how new "brick" houses are built nowadays that most of them aren't really brick. So I betcha that people who have been taught to prefer brick {by the three little pigs story {and by the mass media?} are being fooled into thinking that that fake brick covering over a wood frame is real brick.

Who are the real big bad wolfs?

{rhetorical question}

But I find it interesting to read that a wooden house is better in tornado areas than a brick house.

Hmmm.

Well, I don't know. I still like my brick house even though it's coooold inside in the winter-and it's cold right now inside when it's warmer outside.

Disregarding the shoddy construction, or fake, newfangled building materials subject, maybe the brick vs wood is just a climate thing and/or a different strokes for different folks aesthetic thing.

??

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Azizi
Date: 06 May 07 - 07:06 PM

Correction from my previous post:

morale=moral.

It occurs to me that maybe the real moral of the three little pigs story is not that "brick houses are better than any other type" but that "you should take the time to build something {or to do something} well."

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:01 PM

Are you sure it wasn't earthquake areas?

And we have to take social situations into account too...I don't know if there is a material that would stand up to being a meth lab...I would hope perhaps a ceramic over masonry of some type..but there is osmething to be said for thick walls under various sorts of wars etc....I saw all these beautiful old stone??? houses in Italy...and the roof would have a big hole in it..I thought..gee...I have never seen roofs decay with such a round hole in them before..but I guess it must have been bombs..

There was a house in a magazine..on a Maine Island...the sea would every so often run right through it and it turned out just fine.

I think that without hurting the timber people, because like I said, wood could and should be used for window frames, floors, walls, furniture...that money could be brought into poor areas..which I keep saying..have lots of rocks and sand usually...it is a win/win situation. I hope the granite areas of Vermont and Maine are regrouping now that everyone wants granite countertops.

And we certainly can recycle stone houses...just put them in roadbeds, chopped up or not.

The Germans I believe are doing a lot with styrofoam concrete....light and sturdy.

But they say we will never even figure out how the Romans made there's..it still has not been equalled. Sorry..my brain will not retain the distinction between Cement and Concrete...

And if you are a landlord...you want something you can really get down to the basics in..perhaps tearing down walls...after some tenants have done their damage...

We should or probably do, have forms that we can just pump cement into, perhaps with filler rock rubble, pebbles, whatever...and poof, there is your house. And check out ceramics...

I know we don't want to be transporting rocks from Afghanistan..although they are bringing granite in from Brazil...but it is embedded with jewels..especially emeralds..think how pretty that would be.

Oh speaking of stucco..remember years ago..like in the 70s..in Canada they made stucco with broken glass in it..as an artsy thing..broken beer bottles it looked like from the color. Don't seem them anymore...

And think of the stone houses in Ireland..still almost standing...Scotland..Denmark..France...

Now, one last thought that has stuck with me for 20 years..an old Readers Digest article..said one of the major problems in third world countries in terms of their education systems was that they were good at producing scholars, but what they really really needed was cement finishers..that so many things did not get done for lack of skilled labor, which is as cheap to instruct, often, not always, as other forms of education....

Well, so much for my stream of consciousness on masonry.   mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Gurney
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:06 PM

Just thought I'd chip in again with a couple of construction methods not greatly explored on this thread so far.

Concrete block. These are hollow and available in many forms. The usual method here is to have 'bond beams' which are horizontal blocks at about 3-4 layer intervals, and are filled with reinforced concrete, making belts around the building, and vertical pillars filled too. These buildings are very safe, as it takes a vehicle crash to damage them seriously, and are fairly easy to repair.
In uninsulated form they are ridiculously cold, and so end up with very thick walls for the size of the building, because of the insulation. They need good footings because, if they crack, they are cracked forever. Concrete isn't flexible.

Lockwood. That's what they call it here, after the firm that pioneered it. It is machined timber like tongue-and-groove, but 75mm/3" thick, with two tongues. You stack them up, then run giant bolts (hurricane rods) the full height of the structure, through pre-cut holes. The wiring goes through holes too, and around the skirting. They need to be properly thought out, because once they are built, changes are more difficult to arrange. When built with knotty pine, it is like being inside a goldfish bowl.(all those 'eyes'!) They are quite noisy, because the 'logs' shaded by the soffit/eaves don't get so hot as the lower ones, which expand, and creak and groan as they do so. And also again at night as the structure cools down. Lately the 'logs' have been sheathed in aluminium, which reduces but does not completely solve the noise problem. I would think it would take an exceptional weather event to destroy one of these houses, provided it was firmly attached to it's footings. Warmish houses, though, but quite expensive, and difficult to repair if you need to.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:26 PM

"In case of fire, aren't brick houses the safest structure to live in?"

A 'brick house' usually has lots of wood for roofs, linings, etc.... :-) and so they still burn pretty well...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:50 PM

I live in an active seismic area (the Yellowstone Caldera) in a house made from brick, reinforced poured concrete, and wood (and some other stuff, like metal nails and construction adhesive). It has stood up to the 1988 Borah quake and the quake that knocked down the Teton Dam.

But it's made the "old way" with boards laid at an angle to lock the studding together, not with plywood or chipboard used that way. It will sway slightly instead of crack -- and that said, it would of course fall if the quake were great enough.

The library where I work has two sections: one was built in 1907 and one in 1994. Were there an earthquake I know which section I'd rather be in!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:01 PM

A firefighter once told me that where you are close to a fire response, the inside material in most houses burn not the outside. He said toxic fumes from interior materials is a huge threat to health. Insulation has likely helped reduce fires reaching the external surfaces..

But, rehgardless of the construction,he said many haouses have to be demolished after fires (from damage from fires and where water is used).

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:17 PM

"Why are we still building with wood?"

               I don't know. I bought a 20 foot 2x8 to use as a ridge board today, and it had so much wain in it, and knots from one end to the other, I thought it was going to fall apart before I got it nailed into place.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Deckman
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:22 PM

Get a better lumber yard! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:42 PM

The materials inside houses are extremely dangerous. Firefighters who care about their health (fortunate enogh to be on departments that care about their health) will not do interior attacks without breathing apparatus. The gases coming off furniture, rugs, paints, plastics are deadly. Rooms superheat leading to a 'phenomenon' called flashover. Literally, everything in the room that is combustible bursts into flame with in a few seconds (two or three) and the resulting fireball produces heat that is extreme. Picture of a flashover chamber for training purposes.

If you will, imagine the whole room being filled with flame like that. Even the bunker gear isn't gonna save you. As the smoke descends from ceiling to floor , even the air itself will ignite. (BTW, the firefighter to the right in the pic should have his shield down.)

Temperatures inside the room will eventually reach about 1100 degrees F at which time--circumstances being right--flashover will occur. I have been in a few houses which we lit numerous times, adding people's donated furniture and observing the behaviour of the fire: its progression, heat and rate of spread. If the thermal layer can be 'broken up', the flashover can be prevented. However, lose access to the water stream and you can be in bad trouble in a very short time. Since a flashover can't be outrun, the one chance a firefighter has is to drop flat to the floor when it is inevitable, arms around the face, count to ten, get up and get out. If you don't make it to ten, y'aint gettin' out.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:17 AM

http://www.architectureweek.com/2000/0517/building_1-1.html

Here is this Iranian architect..Nader Kahlili...

I am going to do some more research on ceramics...

there are human considerations as well as earthquake loads etc. of course. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 May 07 - 03:12 AM

When in the planning stages of building you need to exam the enviorment you're building in, the main use & purpose for the building, the design & structure, the size of the building, then the building materials, the the means & construction methods. The budget is probably the 1st thing to consider though, seeing as this will drive the rest of all discissions & set the guide lines for all the rest. There are no 1 material or 1 method ways of building though there are right & wrongs way to build. If you look at the enviorment surrounding where you'd like to build you start to get an idea of what materials would be best to use. Here in New Englad we can harvest stone & timber which works fine in combination of a stone foundation & a wood frame on top, espically when building on a ledge or rock beds. To condemn wood is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Building codes are usually pretty right on as to whats proper construction methods materials espically if you're inquiring about what's been tried & true. When it comes to the more modern they're usually a few blocks behind the engineers & architect which is natural & is a good thing too. If yo've got a good building dept & good inspectors & a new material or a new approch they're great for bouncing ideas off of. "Going Green" is the new trend in building today but if someone wanted to look back over the past centuries the builders aways thought green. One look at the New England "attached farmhouse" shows how the builders of bygone days took the house alinement with the sun & prevailing winds into consideration. The availability of local materials and the availability of the local skill & talent was another "green" consideration. Depending on the structure steel sometimes does not do as well as wood in some fire situations. Steel beams will twist & warp where in a post & beam structure the wood will charr but still hold structually in place & only need sistering or a replacement of only the beam itself. An old wood structure also breathes espically if roofed with slate, clay tiles or wood shakes. A structure that's air tight has it's own set of problems that needs looking after. The tighter the structure the more intense the heat from fire. Which plays a part in weither you'd want to clad a house with a type of wood siding or choose a cheaper vinal or aluminum cladding. How to ventilate & insulate also needs consideration when deciding what to build with. If it's a cheap & fast way you need to go then build with partical or chip or osb instead of a 5/8 or 3/4 plywood. Of course if the 3 get moist, damp of wet they're useless where he plywood will dry out & hold plus the plywood is considered, because of it's multi-directional make up, structual where the other materials aren't. I'd love to build in stone but then it doesn't have any of the insulation properties of wood plus it takes heavy equipment to move, heavy machinery to shape, tool or cut & carve plus I don't know many with the skill & those that have the skill charge a high cost for it. I can do it with brick or wood. Concrete & cement has their own pros & cons but for my money, time & skill I'd build traditional (figures right) with wood. The same as I'd do for a boat.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 07 May 07 - 04:01 AM

WELL PART OF THE PROBLEM IS no one builds their own houses or has them built....so they take the ugly beige monstrosities..and if you have seen gray washington cities where everyone wears navy blue and drives gray cars...why in the world do they paint their houses beige? should be a law against it..mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: dianavan
Date: 07 May 07 - 04:11 AM

I like wooden houses and wooden boats the best but where are you going to find that sturdy, straight grain, first growth fir these days? I can't even find a nice board to make a shelf in the city. On my home island, all the houses are made of cedar and fir. The finishing inside is usually a combination of red and yellow cedar. Floors are fir, maple or even alder. Stone is used for fireplaces, steps and foundations. Roofs used to be shakes but now corrugated metal or asphalt is used because of fire.

mg - The sand houses by Khalili are absolutely beautiful. Do you think they would work in the rain? They look very suitable for the desert. I love the design. I can also see them nestled amongst the dunes near the ocean. I am amazed because its almost as if he has taken an ancient idea and brought it forward. Gorgeous! I think I would need more light but it would be a great little summer cabin. Thanks for the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:21 AM

Some of the houses here now have sprinkler systems installed. Wonderful, helps the firefighters and cuts the cost of house insurance!

Of course, the guy who inspected the sprinkler system at the library last week told me that these systems aren't maintained after they are installed -- "Nah, I'm not gonna spend money on THAT!" So if the house burns the insurance will pay nothing, zip, nada, nil.

Not to mention the unnecessary danger to those who live there or have to fight a fire there....

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 May 07 - 11:31 AM

In the US, for the most part what is built, how it is built , and where it is built is pretty much determined by the developers.

They do not decide based on what is best for the community. They do not decide on what is safest. They do not decide based on what is the prettiest. IThey decide based on what they can build the fastest, and sell for the most money.

Before you can change anything else, you have to change that.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 May 07 - 02:18 PM

"Get a better lumber yard! Bob"

                     I'm in Oregon. They must be shipping all the good lumber to Iraq and China.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 07 - 02:32 PM

People use what they like to use and what they can afford. Stick built is still cheapest.

Having said that there are other considerations. Here in Guam typhoons can spring to life and hit us with only 72 hours notice. Plus we have earthquakes. And we have a particularly voracious Asian termite that loves to eat up wood. Consequently most houses resemble concrete bunkers. It works for us.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,Girlygirl
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:19 PM

Where would you suggest to move? If you really think about it, there is no place on earth that is not subject to the power of mother nature.

Gulf States (and much of the East Coast for all that matters) are subject to devastating hurricanes. The West Coast is subject to fires and earthquakes. Everyone living within a few miles of the coastline is subject to tsunamis. Every state between North Dakota and Texas has suffered some sort of natural disaster at one time or another.


I mean, geez, the city of Seattle is built on a volcano.

If Yellowstone erupted it would take out half the country -- not just Wyoming. A quake along the New Madrid Fault would take out the city of St. Louis (not to mention the devastation it would cause in the rest of Missouri and Illinois.) Many major cities in the United States are subject to earthquakes (check the USGS to find out which ones). Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee -- all subject to tornados as well.


It's not just the Unites States either. Istanbul, Turkey sits on a major fault like. We're all well aware of what Mt. Vesuvius did to Pompeii and Herculaneum in 79. It's erupted several times since.
Yet, two million people live in its vicinity, and the Italian government has offered incentives for folks to move because they're afraid of what would happen if it were to erupt. Still, residents don't want to move.

Why? Because it's their home.

I know someone who lives in Kansas whose house -- made of wood -- has stood for the past 100 years. They've had several tornados pass right over their house, but they've just been lucky not to have major damage.

Whether you become victim to a natural disaster is merely a matter of luck and the will of a higher power. (For those who don't believe in a higher power, come talk to me AFTER you figure out how to make the sun rise.)

Instead of asking why anyone would live there, we all just need to remember that sometimes s**t happens. Everyone needs insurance and a deep love for his fellow man because none of us ever know when that s**t is going to happen to us.

Peace

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,ttj
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:32 PM

Hello all,

   I just kind of stumbled on your website here and I don't know much about the Mudcat Cafe (interesting name, though). I live in Brazil and here houses are made with a lot of concrete and very fragile hollow ceramic bricks that are reinforced with a lot of cement covering. It's a very inefficient way to build a house and it can take up to 2 years depending on your financing conditions. The weather here is mild, though, so people can get away with it.
   Personally, I really like wood because it is so easy to work with and buildings can go up very quickly.
   On the other hand, wood doesn't seem to make sense for people who live in areas with a lot of severe weather. I think if I were living in Kansas or Oklahoma, or other tornado alleys in the midwest U.S., I would think seriously about rebuilding a destroyed home in all wood structure.
    It seems that now would be an interesting time for people in those areas to consider building earth-bermed houses with some reinforced concrete, stone, and maybe some hay bales. There is a huge amount of area there and the land must be reasonably priced, but I'd imagine many people are hesitant to move there because of the occasionally violent weather. Maybe now would be an opportunity for those people to build some more solid and perhaps environmentally friendly structures that could withstand the weather...anyone agree with me? Really, perhaps we need to get the developers to think about this...any aspiring developers out there?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:34 PM

"why in the world do they paint their houses beige?"

WHAT is beige?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:42 PM

Basic rule should be, use local materials, and take full account of traditional techniques.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 07 - 06:03 PM

Beige in Colorado is a basic light shite brown!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 07 - 06:19 PM

because witches are made of wood?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 06:45 PM

Thank you. If it ain't yer basic rainbow colour with ish, sorta or cross between, it gets me lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 07 - 07:59 PM

"come talk to me AFTER you figure out how to make the sun rise"

The sun does not rise, except from your limited perspective - I believe the earth rotates in front of a staionary sun.

:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:01 PM

The sun is not ststionary. It too moves.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:05 PM

We're trying to figure out a useful way to utilize knots.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:07 PM

Ideas R Us

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:09 PM

"The sun is not stationary. It too moves."

It moves, so say those who have a wider perspective than was necessary to deal with your trivial question... :-)

:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:10 PM

Actually, neither one of them is stationary. The sun too is in motion in the greater context of the rest of the Universe. But, yes, the Earth does rotate around the sun. Be that as it may, none of us is in control of the sunrise. Therefore you might say that we must submit to the sunrise happening in a way that is completely beyond our control...therefore it is happening through the mechanism of a higher power. You can describe that higher power any way you want to...scientifically, philosophically, or religiously. That's up to you.

That higher power does not have to be defined as a sentient "God", if that's what is bothering you, Foolestroupe. ;-)

You cannot make the sun rise. You cannot stop it from rising. It is therefore beyond your power...or any human power. It is therefore in the jurisdiction of what we can term as "a higher power"..."higher" meaning something beyond our reach or control.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:12 PM

Ommmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:37 PM

"you might say that we must submit to the sunrise happening in a way that is completely beyond our control"

Yep.... then again you might not - Mankind do not want to willingly submit to the sunrise - that's why we have reed lamps, and electrickery... :-P and why you are not alseep right now - it's daylight here.... :-)

"therefore it is happening through the mechanism of a higher power."

Ah...

"You cannot make the sun rise. You cannot stop it from rising. It is therefore beyond your power...or any human power. It is therefore in the jurisdiction of what we can term as "a higher power"..."higher" meaning something beyond our reach or control."

Our 'world' only exists in our 'minds'¹, so it ceases when our minds cease. Thus I can stop the sun from rising, or cause the world to come to an end by doing all I can to speed the end times whereupon I will be translated to another plane - hopefully Business Class, with free drinks...


'But it moves...'²


"WHAT is beige?"

Billy Connelly's father told him thatthe world is being taken over by beige - "Always fight the beige, Son!"




¹ Well, that's another topic... :-)
² So do my Bowels... :-)


:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:22 PM

You may be correct, Foolestroupe, that our world only exists in our minds. ;-) That is a concept embraced by many of the Eastern philosophies.

In the context OF our world as we know it objectively, however, we cannot control the sunrise. If our world is simply our collective mental illusion, then of course, the entire thing can be "stopped" the moment we stop imagining it!

And that is a goal sought by some on the path to enlightenment, so I've heard. That's why what they find when they get there is said to be indescribable, since it doesn't fall within any of our known points of reference.

Beige is a lovely colour! And a very useful one. We need more and more and more beige, that's what I say. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:29 PM

oh please not here..9 months of grey weather, grey cement, grey ocean, grey sky, pale Scandinavian faces (no offense, I am sure some get sun tans), grey cars...at least people don't tend to wear gray clothes here but a lot of navy blue and forest green..red suspenders if a former lumberjack...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:45 PM

Yes, but grey is not beige. Beige has a certain warmth to it, whereas grey is either cold or neutral. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:12 PM

Ahem! Much like ambrosia I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 07 - 09:23 AM

100