BS: Understanding the other political side

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:11 PM

People who knew Desert Storm had started told me they found out because "we sat at the end of the flightline and watched the planes take off".

As for this thread, it's one of those things I can observe, but not feel involved in. Mostly, this shit is a wear sado-masochistic circle jerk with Bruce as the pivot man. "Oh feed me more shit, so I can respond, and feel special."

Have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: meself
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:12 PM

What they're doing to the children pales beside what Hillary did to those poor emails!

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:13 PM

For anyone who even bothers to look at facts:

Broaddrick, who was known as Juanita Hickey at the time, first met Clinton when he made a visit to her nursing home during his 1978 gubernatorial campaign. Clinton was the Arkansas Attorney General at the time. Broaddrick wanted to volunteer for the campaign, and says Clinton invited her to stop by the campaign office in Little Rock.[12] She said she contacted the office a few weeks later while in the area for a nursing home conference and that Clinton said he would not be in the campaign office that day and suggested they meet at her hotel's coffee shop instead. Upon his arrival, however, he allegedly requested that they instead have coffee in her room to avoid a crowd of reporters in the lobby, and Broaddrick agreed.[3]

Broaddrick said the two spoke briefly in her room, with Clinton describing plans he had to renovate a prison visible from her window if he became governor. Then, according to Broaddrick, Clinton suddenly kissed her. Broaddrick says she pushed Clinton away and told him she was married and not interested, but he persisted. As recounted in the NBC interview:[3]

Then he tries to kiss me again. And the second time he tries to kiss me he starts biting my lip ... He starts to, um, bite on my top lip and I tried to pull away from him. And then he forces me down on the bed. And I just was very frightened, and I tried to get away from him and I told him 'No,' that I didn't want this to happen but he wouldn't listen to me. ... It was a real panicky, panicky situation. I was even to the point where I was getting very noisy, you know, yelling to 'Please stop.' And that's when he pressed down on my right shoulder and he would bite my lip. ... When everything was over with, he got up and straightened himself, and I was crying at the moment and he walks to the door, and calmly puts on his sunglasses. And before he goes out the door he says 'You better get some ice on that.' And he turned and went out the door.

When asked if there was any way Clinton could have thought it was consensual, Broaddrick said "No, not with what I told him and with how I tried to push him away. It was not consensual."[3]

Broaddrick shared the hotel room with her friend and employee Norma Rogers. Rogers attended a conference seminar that morning, and says she returned to their room to find Broaddrick on the bed "in a state of shock", with her pantyhose torn in the crotch and her lip swollen as though she had been hit. Rogers says Broaddrick told her Clinton had "forced himself on her".[12] Rogers helped Broaddrick ice her lip, and then the women left Little Rock. Rogers said that Broaddrick was very upset on the way home and blamed herself for letting Clinton in the room.[3] Broaddrick says she did not tell her husband, Gary Hickey, about the incident, and told him she accidentally injured her lip. He told NBC he did not remember the injury or her explanation.[3][13] David Broaddrick, however, has said he noticed her injured lip, and she told him that Clinton had raped her when he asked about it. Three other friends confirmed that Broaddrick had told them about the incident at the time: Susan Lewis; Louis Ma; and Jean Darden, Norma Rogers' sister.[3] Broaddrick did not recall the date of the alleged incident, but said it was spring of 1978 and that she had stayed in the Camelot Hotel. Records show Broaddrick attended a nursing home meeting at the Camelot Hotel in Little Rock on April 25, 1978.[3][13] The Clinton White House would not respond to requests for Clinton's official schedule for the date,[14] but news reports suggest that he was in Little Rock that day, with no official commitments in the morning.[3]

Three weeks after the alleged assault, Broaddrick participated in a small Clinton fundraiser at the home of a local dentist. Broaddrick said she was "in denial" and felt guilty, thinking that she had given Clinton the wrong idea by letting him into her room.[3] When she arrived at the event, she says, her friend who had picked the Clintons up from the airport told her that Hillary Clinton had asked if she would be at the event. Broaddrick says Bill Clinton did not speak to her at the event, but Hillary Clinton approached her, took her hand, and said "I just want you to know how much Bill and I appreciate what you do for him." When Broaddrick moved her hand away, she says, Hillary Clinton held on to her and said, "Do you understand? Everything that you do." Broaddrick says she felt nauseated and left the gathering. Broaddrick says she interpreted the incident as Hillary Clinton thanking her for keeping quiet.[15][16][17]

***

Caitlin Flanagan of The Atlantic wrote "Yet let us not forget the sex crimes of which the younger, stronger Bill Clinton was very credibly accused in the 1990s. Juanita Broaddrick reported that ..." before recapping the case.[44] During an NPR interview Flanagan said, "And so there were a series of women throughout the course of his presidency who came forward with accounts of things they said he did to them which really mirror the kinds of things we're looking at now in the very worst of the cases. Juanita Broaddrick, most prominently, said that he raped her very violently in a way that is quite like the Harvey Weinstein accusations in terms of the hotel room and the suddenness and the bleak horror of it all."[45]

Goldberg wrote an op-ed in The New York Times entitled "I Believe Juanita", where she said, "In this #MeToo moment, when we're reassessing decades of male misbehavior and turning open secrets into exposes, we should look clearly at the credible evidence that Juanita Broaddrick told the truth when she accused Clinton of raping her. But revisiting the Clinton scandals in light of today's politics is complicated as well as painful."[46]

Following the allegations made against Alabama senate candidate Roy Moore, Broaddrick said, "All victims matter. It doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or a Republican ... We all have the right to be believed."[47]

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:23 PM

DDSS

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:24 PM

Meself,

The Dems are responsible for a large part of the suffering of the immigrants, ant the deaths and rapes of many of those illegally trying to enter. THAY have refused to fund the border security, have encouraged illegal immigration by refusing to allow enforcement of the law, and effectively told the world that anyone can come here and not bother going through our ( very easy) border checkpoints.

I am in favor of immigration, and will invite in those who ask to come here.

I am against those who try to break in to our country illegally, as I am against those who would enter a house through the window or break down a door without invitation. Same principle-
If you lock your door when you leave, or at night, you are a hypocrite to demand open borders.

When I travel to foreign nations, I have a passport and visa, if required, and GO THROUGH A PORT OF ENTRY. Tell me what country does NOT have greater security of it's borders than the US.

When I last went to Canada, I had to prove I had sufficient funds to last the duration of my trip. Should I sneak over the border and expect them to be OK with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:26 PM

Dems.. please, the rest of the saner parts of the world
implore you to field a more electable candidate next time...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:30 PM

Just for the record, here is the context and the exact words that Hillary Clinton said in that hearing: "With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided that they’d they go kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, senator. Now, honestly, I will do my best to answer your questions about this, but the fact is that people were trying in real time to get to the best information. The IC has a process, I understand, going with the other committees to explain how these talking points came out. But you know, to be clear, it is, from my perspective, less important today looking backwards as to why these militants decided they did it than to find them and bring them to justice, and then maybe we’ll figure out what was going on in the meantime."

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:32 PM

Trump CANNOT win the next election on his merits, BUT he can win if the Dems keep at their present course, and continue as only being anti-Trump and not pro-America. Right now, it is the Dems who are the party of hate, not the Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:37 PM

Ebbie,
Just for the record, I took the phrase YOU see as a problem out of my statement. Please read what I wrote. 25 Jun 19 - 01:23 PM

Charmion,
"overtaken-by-events military or diplomatic secret"- I agree, but these were NOT in that category- they concerned schedules of FUTURE travel and information that endangered CURRENT information sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:40 PM

Sorry, punkfolkrocker
'The Democratic Party is working very hard to find the perfect candidate- as in 2016, when they were "persuaded" by illegal action on her part to run Hillary, who was the ONLY person in the party who Trump could beat.

Watch them and weep.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 02:16 PM

WEEP INDEED
NOT A LOT OF TEARS HERE - GOD BLESS AMERICA

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: meself
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 03:39 PM

"When I last went to Canada, I had to prove I had sufficient funds to last the duration of my trip. Should I sneak over the border and expect them to be OK with that?"

No - but I would demand, if necessary, that you be treated humanely. And if you were a toddler, I would demand that you be kept with your mother, and be kept clean, warm, and fed.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 03:58 PM

If you sneak over the border into Canada in the dead of winter and call 911 because you’re African and freezing to death, they will stay on the phone with you until the cops arrive with blankets and coffee in a thermos.

Truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 04:05 PM

Bruce, you mention five-year prison terms for security breaches.

Not in this country.

In Canada, you don’t go to prison for a security breach unless and until the prosecution can prove that the unauthorized release of sensitive information caused actual harm.

Wild indignation from government officials and party apparatchiks does not constitute “actual harm”.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 04:05 PM

So when a person commits a crime, their children should be incarcerated with them? That was ruled out by Liberal judges, hence the children being separated from parents. Yes, they should be taken care of, but that requires funds the Dems have not been willing to allocate for Border security.

And in Canada, after they save me, they would either arrest me or ship me out of the country.

Sort of like the US policies that the Liberals here are complaining about.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 04:15 PM

In the US, the NSA training stated up to 5 years for each occurrence.


The enlisted man who served time for taking a selfie with his girlfriend (authorized on-board visit) that had classified equipment in the background would like to have been in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 05:03 PM

Jeri, how bloody right you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 05:59 PM

From Jim's clicky:

"President Donald Trump's administration has for months warned that the US immigration system was at a "breaking point". The administration has asked for $4.5bn in emergency humanitarian funding and for Congress to change laws that would allow agencies to detain families longer and deport them more quickly.

Many immigration detention facilities are overflowing and unequipped to house families with young children, especially as the numbers of families crossing the US-Mexico border surge to record highs. The Border Patrol made 99,000 apprehensions on the southern border just in April. More than half were parents and children travelling together. "


Yet the Dems refused to fund it, for political reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 06:08 PM

Or humanitarian reasons. We all know how to decide, except for you. And didn't your hallowed nation exploit, shamelessly, expediently, terribly, Mexicans to pick your fruit then send them home forcing them to pay the fare that exactly matched what they'd earned? We of the former British Empire know exactly how these paybacks work...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 06:33 PM

"didn't your hallowed nation exploit, shamelessly, expediently, terribly, Mexicans to pick your fruit then send them home forcing them to pay the fare that exactly matched what they'd earned?"

Not heard of that. I wonder when it was, and who had that idea?

Got any details or supporting information?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:07 PM

You need to get out more, mate. Your country and mine are a bit shit when it comes to exploiting "foreigners" then ditching them when they become inconvenient. Face it.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:27 PM

Once again we seem to be stranded on the rocky headlands of linguistic differences.

Biting people would be regarded as an unpleasant personal defect and biting someone without their willing consent to being bitten could get you in trouble with the law in England.

However, rape is a somwhat different offence in English common usage, and jurisprudence.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:29 PM

As I said,

Not heard of that. I wonder when it was, and who had that idea?

Got any details or supporting information?


I do NOT disagree with your statement, but am asking for information on this particular situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:33 PM

" with her pantyhose torn in the crotch"

"she told him that Clinton had raped her when he asked about it. "

"When everything was over with, he got up and straightened himself, and I was crying at the moment and he walks to the door, and calmly puts on his sunglasses"

"When asked if there was any way Clinton could have thought it was consensual, Broaddrick said "No, not with what I told him and with how I tried to push him away. It was not consensual."[3]"


Sorry if she did not provide all the details for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:46 PM

So let's have the details of the actual conviction. I know how hard you're working on this. But you made a pretty clear allegation. So let's have your facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 12:54 AM

Once again - putting on sunglasses - possibly reprehensible.....;
tearing panty hose at the crotch...if Bill tried anyhing like that with my pantyhose, I'd be furious....

In England, rape means.....oh never mind Bruce...ask your Mum about these things.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 02:13 AM

""President Donald Trump's administration has for months warned that the US immigration system was at a "breaking point"."
A country based on wiping out the native population in order to make room for immigrants fleeing poverty and persecution, herding immigrants into camps and allowing them to die of starvation and disease.... !!!!!!
Almost as ludicrous as the only country to have used weapons of mass destruction against civilians (to a massive and devastating effect) telling other countries that are not to be trusted with weapons of mass destruction   
Don't think so - on either counts
America is now in th hands of an unstable, self-serving extremist with his finger on the nuclear trigger and the future of the planet relies on putting him back in his cage before he destroys it
Understanding today's world politics really doesn't get any more complicated than that and all roads to that understanding lead back to the padded cell in the White House
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 05:04 AM

Amen.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 12:07 PM

Big Al,

I think that the definition of rape is the same here, and used to mean actual sexual attack.



"David Broaddrick, however, has said he noticed her injured lip, and she told him that Clinton had raped her when he asked about it. Three other friends confirmed that Broaddrick had told them about the incident at the time: Susan Lewis; Louis Ma; and Jean Darden, Norma Rogers' sister.[3]"


"Broaddrick said that after the assault, Clinton told her not to worry about pregnancy because childhood mumps had rendered him sterile.[7] When contacted about the issue, Gennifer Flowers, who Clinton later admitted to a sexual relationship with, also said that Clinton had thought he couldn't have children.[24]"

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 12:20 PM

THen it's ok to be a rapist, sexist antisemite President as long as you can pin similar behaviour on other politicians
Is 'whataboutism' part of "understanding the other political side" ?
Never understand in a thousand years how someone who screams 'Jew hater' as often as some people do can take up that political side
Beyond me

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 12:32 PM

No Jim, it NOT OK.

But the LAW is supposed to treat even Democrats and Republicans by the same standard.

We do not have an exempt class of Liberals who are not required to follow the same rules as they want everyone else to follow.

If you need a double standard in order to be able to complain about the flaws of your opposition, you have a serious problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:01 PM

I had stated:

"No, one can only conclude that the people electing Trump found the Democratic candidate to be even worse than Trump."

Can ANY of you find real fault with that statement, to justify the abuse heaped on me?

YOUR opinion of Hillary is just fine- you want to elect someone who has demonstrated her disdain for the US, and her support of her husband rape of women, do so.

But the comments made here about Trump indicate many have a double standard, and chastise him for actions that the same poster permits Hillary to get away with unremarked.




It seems to me that everyone now says that Trump has deficiencies- I agree, but AT THE TIME OF THE ELECTION, Hillary's flaws were already KNOWN.

From the Liberal Godhead:

"Getting rid of Trumpshit won't accomplish a thing unless we can get rid of the 62,984,828 fuckwits who originally voted for him"


So I can REASONABLY state that there were at least that many ( according to LIBERAL claims) fuck-wits who voted for Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:25 PM

"But the LAW is supposed to treat even Democrats and Republicans by the same standard."
Clinton was ruined for having consensual sex - Trump was elected after being seen of film advocating sexual assault because "that's what women expect"
Very equal, , I'm sure
Clinton's sexual behaviour was "allaged" and unproven, Trump wears his like a male badge of honour
Now anti semitic Trump has been accused of rape you leap to his defence - I can see you and your ilk have a well balanced set of priorities
Anybody with that set of values deserves every bit as much abuse as the shit he's defending
Funny how American Patriots seem happy to see their country defined by such scum - beyond me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:32 PM

Clinton ruined?

You have not been keeping up with the news.

"Now anti semitic Trump has been accused of rape you leap to his defence "

OK, let me see...
1) while SOME of his supporters are anti Semetic, so are some of the elected Democrats.
2) **I** have never defended him against accusations of rape ( unlike Liberals and Clinton). I have stated they should be investigated and THE TRUTH DETERMINED.

BUT he should have the SAME level of scrutiny that the Liberals insisted on in the case of another President, Clinton. Otherwise, there is a double standard.

Even YOU should be able to understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:40 PM

How much of the present day shitshow is to do with the ealy white invaders who populated and built America,
being the mad religious cult fanatics rejected & ejected by Europe;
and forced to flee to the new world...???

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:48 PM

Your whataboutism is defence enough - his praise for the Charlottesville marchers would have had you screaming yourself hoarse if anybody else had done it
American politicians are known fro their sexual peccadilloes - the Kennedys, Johnson... all at it like rabbits
Most have had the good sense to do it in private - Trump and his 'golden showers' has made them a spectator sport   
"1) while SOME of his supporters are anti Semitic, so are some of the elected Democrats."
More whataboutism - it appears the Jewish People are no longer an issue with you
The word is Semitic by the way - shows just how important the subject is

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:51 PM

It appears that you have a hair up your ass. You should look (further) into that.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:57 PM

”I think that the definition of rape is the same here, and used to mean actual sexual attack.”

Then your understanding of the definition of rape is seriously deficient. ‘Grabbing them by the pussy’ can be ‘sexual attack’, but it is not rape.

A bit of reading for you to educate yourself on the Sexual Offences Act 2003

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:58 PM

Don't try using finger nail scissors for that...
I did once 45 years ago.. and never will again...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 02:54 PM

"It appears that you have a hair up your ass"
LEST WE FORGET - as you have chosen to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:00 PM

It's dead simple, Bruce. If Clinton was a rapist, he would have been tried, found guilty and locked up. If you can prove he is guilty of rape then I suggest you contact the authorities and give them your evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:05 PM

And if Trump was a rapist, it would already have been tried, so he is JUST as innocent as Clinton.


RIGHT?????


Are you saying that Clinton would not have pulled his political muscle to get it ignored? If so, than how can Liberals complain about Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:08 PM

I have not accused anyone of rape, Bruce. You have. I have nothing to prove. You have. Feel free.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:27 PM

So, you will admit that Trump is as innocent as Bill Clinton?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:49 PM

If there are rumours that 2 powefull wealthy men are guilty of rape and got away with it..
I'd want further investigations of both of them,
no matter how protected by inner circle they may be...

Harvey has started the balls rolling...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:52 PM

BOTH of them I would agree with.

To single EITHER out and ignore the other is a simple double standard.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:03 PM

Trump is hardly "innocent".

There are thirteen - not one - (or maybe more, by now?) instances in which he's apparently sexually assaulted women in one way or another AND MAKES JOKES ABOUT IT.

So lets apply Bruce logic:

Accused by one person: Almost certainly guilty.
Accused by 13 people: Almost certainly innocent.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:11 PM

Accused by more than half a dozen- almost certainly needs investigation, EVEN WHEN HE IS A DEMOCRAT.

BOTH of them paid off accusers. BUT YOU ##### Liberals are OK with that, as long as he is a Democrat.


You, Mossback, have lied about me. I STATED THAT BOTH SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED.


Care to tell how much the Clintons have paid you, or what they are blackmailing you with? Or are you just as fucked-up stupid as you come across in your posts???

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:18 PM

Care to tell how much the Clintons have paid you, or what they are blackmailing you with? Or are you just as fucked-up stupid as you come across in your posts??

Be happy to tell you, Bruce, if you tell ME how much you pay Joe not to delete your constant, foul-mouthed personal attacks on all & sundry.

Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:29 PM

Clinton's accusers were complelely believable, and if you think that his guilt means he'd'a been tried then you have never lived in (or followed the news in) the States. Of *course* he wasn't arrested. Doesn't for a minute even *imply* he was innocent. Remember, this was something like 20 years before MeToo.