BS: Let's ditch Facebook

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 07:19 PM

"Defeatist ring"...No, just not willing to go "jousting at windmills".
It's really not up to me to fight FB. There are people far more able and willing to take up the challenge... and some are already working at it. There have been recent changes and cancellations of accounts for various rule breaking.

As for "...perhaps the platform should be dismantled into smaller-size pieces ..." I can't even imagine what that would look like. It's not like making some financial conglomerate divest various pieces. It is one entity/algorithm with Zuckerberg holding the strings.

I am reminded of threads from several Mudcatters saying "Why doesn't the USA DO something about those ridiculous gun laws?"
I have spent far too many hours typing detailed reasons why it is so hard.
   As a couple have said above, FB has several virtues, and those who want to avoid the real crap can mostly do so.

No.. it's not a matter of being a defeatist, but rather being a pragmatic realist.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 12:52 AM

I don't post on Facebook. I'll enter the site to check on something like a concert, but I won't type anything. My settings are as conservative as possible.

Recently I heard a talk by a retired FBI agent who explained step-by-step how an executive's innocent discussion of a canoe trip on Facebook led to the theft of a $250,000 payroll from his company. Never will I join Facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 04:34 AM

perhaps the platform should be dismantled into smaller-size pieces ..." I can't even imagine what that would look like.

1) Instagram didn't start out as Schmukerberg spawn.

2) Libre is not core to his business, maybe he should ditch it anyway. As cash cows go this one has mastitis.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Nov 21 - 04:42 PM

A few years ago I decided to sign up for a FB account, and when I finished, FB put up a page that said "Welcome! Here are some people you may know!" And there were pictures of two of my friends and of three people I had never heard of. I immediately deleted the account.

Obviously FB had been keeping track of me when friends mentioned my name, even though I had never given them permission, had never had any kind of transaction with FB.

Now I have an account, but I only use it to check on concerts, etc. I never post anything, and my settings are as conservative as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Sol
Date: 07 Nov 21 - 08:51 PM

Are there any alternatives to Facebook that provide similar services without all the seemingly attached BS? Just wonderin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 03:02 AM

It depends on what you mean by 'similar to facebook'. Facebook has several overlapping uses. For example:
1 - staying in contact with friends and family, posting pictures of your children or cats, which some people have said is all they do.
2 - announcing gigs at a folkclub, posting reports of gigs, maybe coments from those who attended (or maybe not allowing comments).
3 - promoting your political party, seeking reaction.

Facebook has built its business on linking those and many other functions together, to keep you 'engaged', find out as much as possible about you (and selling that data), and thus to drive advertising revenue - be that products, or political messages.

Decide what you value facebook for, and more importantly what you dislike about it or think is socially divisive about it. Then type 'alternatives to facebook' in your favourite (unbiased) search engine. Examine who owns or runs these services.

For #1 - staying in contact with friends and family - you then face the biggest problem - persuading your friends and family to use it.

I have relatives who are all 'on facebook'. When I tell them I'm not they're very surprised; they don't see anything wrong with it. Or maybe with their use if it.

My particular beef is with folkclubs, say, who decide they ought to have a facebook site, but don't set it as 'public' - maybe don't even know that's possible. They then allow their website to fall into disuse.

This, in yesterday's Guardian is insightful I thought:
Social media fuels narcissists’ worst desires, making reasoned debate near impossible

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 04:12 AM

Facebook is about advertising, as i run a festival i need to advertise

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 10:39 AM

Are there any alternatives to Facebook that provide similar services without all the seemingly attached BS?

Telegram, but I can't figure out how to find people or forums there. It does allow you to upload a fair range of media types without an account on an external service. And it works properly on my old phone, which Mudcat doesn't.

Reddit ought to help but its cult of anonymity is nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: PHJim
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 10:50 AM

While Myspace was better for musicians, if I quit Facebook, I would want something to replace it.
Before Facebook, I would spend at least a day postering local towns to publicize a gig. Now one mention on Facebook almost guarantees a full or almost full house. That is my primary reason for being on Facebook. Most people at a show will say that they heard about it on Facebook or at least from someone who heard about it on Facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 11:43 AM

Like many other folks with mental health problems, my sister was an addicted and compulsive user of social media..

She had it within her power to post all kinds of vengeful and malicious trolling
about ayone or anything she perceived as the slightest bit disrespectful to her..

Sites like facebook too easily ecourage and indulge such damaged and damaging people...

My wife is a teacher, we will never normally know what local facebook users post, good or bad, about her behind her back...???

It was quite a surprise these days to see a photocopied poster pinned on a street corner tree
accusing a local man of being an evil paedo..

Oh, the nostalgia it brought back for old fashioned communication technology...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 05:53 PM

If Facebook doesn’t float your boat, you don’t have to use it. Plenty of us do enjoy using it, for communicating with friends and family, and, like others, I use it for advertising the activities of various music organisations I’m involved with, as well as keeping an email list active for those members and followers who don’t have Facebook accounts.
If I see something I disagree with, I can either post my considered opinion, ignore the post, block it, hide it or report it. It does not stop me thinking for myself.
For more private distribution of family photographs I am more likely these days to use our family WhatsApp group, so that they don’t end up going to all my “friends of friends”, although you can create more selective small groups within Facebook too.
And if you want to ask a question or log a complaint with some company that has given you bad service, they all now have Facebook pages and Messenger: often far more effective than phone calls, emails or even letters of complaint for getting some positive action.
So let’s not ditch Facebook: you shun it if you wish. I’ll carry on using it, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 06:01 PM

Oh, and before I forget, small locality Facebook groups have been enormously useful for buying and selling, finding recommendations for local tradespeople, free cycling unwanted but serviceable items, reuniting all sorts of lost items with their rightful owners -anything from lost house or car keys, to items of jewellery, straying pets, recruiting volunteers… you name it….!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 06:23 PM

Tattie - those local useful functions are why I relented my indiference to social media and joined "Nextdoor" social network,
after being invited by a neighbour..

But even then neighbours chat and refer to activity on local facebook groups,
as if we are all supposed to be aware they exist - and follow them...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 08:26 PM

There are lots of posts here of the sentiment that "I enjoy it, it keeps me in touch, I avoid the harm, I can judge for myself and ignore the bad stuff..."

Thing is, as pfr points out, not everyone can keep themselves safe on Facebook. Not everyone can think for themselves sufficiently to avoid the harm. Millions of people are refusing the vaccine because of Facebook and its ilk. Vicious campaigns, such as the ones being carried on outside school gates to harass young people into refusing the vaccine... Millions of people hoodwinked by conspiracy theories...Suicide cults... and, every time, the powers-that-should-be at Facebook are way behind the curve and a good deal of damage is done before remedies are put in place (and note the reluctance to put them in place...). There is a massive mental ill-health issue burgeoning among young people especially. There's bullying, there's body-image issues, there's sexual harassment...and those suicide cults...

Lots of aspects of life contain both good and bad. No getting away from that. The thing about Facebook is that membership is entirely voluntary. A few years ago we didn't know we needed it. It may be good for you but it's bad for a lot of people (and it's harsh and unfeeling to just tell them to get a grip, like you've done...), and there's a don't-care attitude afoot among the Facebook top dogs. OK, so let's not ditch Facebook, but let's at least acknowledge that the organisation we are helping to perpetuate via our membership is doing a lot of harm. A lot. Maybe to people not as tough-minded as you. Be careful who you blame for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 04:36 AM

yes, it is bad for a lot of people.
i cannot understand the people who put up their meals on it.
even more stupid are the people who post they are going on holiday. ideal humting for any burglars
but all internet sites, to some extent cannot or do not eradicate bullying.
i remember one site where someone suggested that my fingers be chopped off, that was just as bad as any facebook abuse, the owner of the site did nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 06:01 AM

I receive emails from Avaaz about their campaigns. I got one this morning from Anneke Kooijmans about Facebook.

She talks about human traffickers using Facebook to lure women into sexual slavery. How Facebook knew that it was being used to incite violence against minorities.

How Facebook permits climate denialism to millions, everywhere.

How, in Myanmar, the military used Facebook as a tool for ethnic cleansing and spreading hatred that fuelled a bloodbath. How, in Palestine and Israel, viral lies are further inflaming the conflict, and how active climate denialism online is already trying to overshadow the climate emergency negotiations in Glasgow.

And we've covered conspiracy theories and anti-vax campaigns...

Almost the worst aspect of all this is that Facebook knows that all this goes on.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 06:07 AM

There's always been mega profits to be made from a destabilised world of conflicts..

Divide and rule, and get more powerful and richer...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 01:09 PM

Steve, thanks for that info about facebook

Subject: RE: BS: Let's ditch Facebook
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 01:21 PM

Thing is, Dick, I must emphasise that that information comes from Avaaz, which is a pressure group (one that I respect, otherwise I wouldn't have posted that). I haven't checked it all though I suppose it is all checkable. Just a caveat...