Origins:The Blackest Crow: meaning/Dearest Dear

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: harpgirl
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 11:25 PM

...I am about to go listen to Jeanne Ritchies's version of this song from "Oscar Brand and Jeanne Ritchie".

If kytrad sees this would she mind commenting on where it was learned and anything else of interst about this recording?

BTW, which part of England did Jame Ritchie hail from, if you don't mind my asking?

many thanks, hg

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 02 - 09:04 AM

I transcribed it from "Songs from the Mountain" and have it as:
'tis but I'd suffer for your sake

and the later line is:
the elements will mourn

Subject: Lyr Add: MY DEAREST DEAR (from Cecil Sharp)
From: John Minear
Date: 15 Aug 02 - 12:35 PM

Cecil Sharp collected this song from Mary Sands on August 5, 1916
(ENGLISH FOLK SONGS FROM THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS, VOL. II, No. 77, p. 13)
Her version goes like this:

My dearest dear, the time draws near
When you and I must part;
And no one knows the inner grieves
Of my poor aching heart.
To see what I suffered for your sake,
You are who I love so dear,
I'd rather I could go with you
Or you could tarry here.

O my old mother's hard to leave,
My father's on my mind,
But for your sake I'll go with you
And leave them all behind.
But for your sake I'll go with you,
O mother, fare you well,
For fear I never see you any more
While here on earth we dwell.

I wish your breast was made of glass,
All in it I might behold;
Your name in secret I would write
In letters of bright gold.
Your name in secret I would write,
Pray believe in what I say,
You are the man that I love best
Unto my dying day.

But when you are on some distant shore,
Think on your absent friend,
And when the wind blows high and clear,
A line or two, pray send.
And when the wind blows high and clear,
Pray send it, love, to me,
That I may know by your own hand-write
How times has went with thee.
---

Mary Sands was Doug Wallin's great-aunt. He sings a version of this on Mike Yates' collection FAR IN THE MOUNTAIN, Vol. 3, see here. And Mary Sands was Sheila Kay Adams' great-great-aunt, and Sheila sings a very nice version of this on her CD MY DEAREST DEAR, see here. She leaves out Sands' second verse. Bobby McMillon, on his recording A DEEPER FEELING, sings a version that he learned from Sheila. Sheila's tune is the same as Mary Sands' tune. Bobby's tune is slightly different, and similar to that sung by Doug Wallin.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BLACKEST CROW (from M Henry)
From: John Minear
Date: 17 Aug 02 - 10:03 AM

Mellinger Henry collected an interesting version of this song from Mrs. Mary Tucker of Varnell, Georgia, in 1929. It is #84 in his FOLK-SONGS FROM THE SOUTHERN HIGHLANDS, pp. 269-270.

The time is drawing very near when I and you must part.
It little do you think or care for the grief of my poor heart,
For the grief of my poor heart, my love, for the grief of my poor heart.
It little do you think or care for the grief of my poor heart.

I wish my breast was made of glass, and in it you would behold
Your name in secret I would write in letters of bright gold.
In letters of bright gold, my love, in letter of bright gold.
Your name in secret I would write, in letters of bright gold.

The blackest crow that ever flew will surely turn to white,
If ever I prove false to you, bright days will turn to night,
Bright days will turn to night, my love, bright days will turn to night,
If ever I prove false to you, bright days will turn to night.

His eyes is of the sparkling blue; his lips is ruby be;
His conversation was so sweet till it charmed this heart of mine,
Till it charmed this heart of mine, my love, till it charmed this heart of mine.
His conversation was so sweet, till it charmed this heart of mine.

What have I suffered for your sake! For you I love so dear.
What would I care for all this world, if I was married to you!
If I was married to you, my dear! If I was married to you!
What would I care for all this world, if I was married to you!

I wish I was one hundred miles, ten thousand miles or more,
Among the Rocky Mountains so high, where the wild beast howls and wars,
Where the wild beast howls and wars, my love, where the wild beast howls and wars
Among the Rocky Mountains so high, where the wild beast howls and roars.

I have posted this as it was printed. There are some possible errors, such as "wars/roars" in the last verse. I doubt that "Rocky Mountains" ought to be capitalized either.

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 08:03 AM

In England to do bird or serve bird is to do time in prison. This would seem to fit reasoably well in the context. It may not be that all of those other versions are more original or authentic than the version sung by black walnut but this would at least seem to make sense ofthat version.

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: GUEST,tulip
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 08:19 PM

tim o'briens website says

tis but i suffer

www.timobrien.net

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 02:21 PM

Another (better?) thread on this song and some relatives, based on a different phrase  ;-)  is here:

Lyr Req: Breast of glass

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 02:50 PM

As I learned it, which is not much different:

I wish that you and I, my love, were on yonder shady rock,
And we had neither wealth nor care and riches were forgot,
I'd wish for every day a week, and every week a year,
How happy, happy, I would be in the comp'ny of my dear.

I wish my breast were made of glass, wherein you might behold,
For there your name lies wrote, my dear, in letters made of gold,
For there your name lies wrote, my dear, believe me what I say,
You are the darling of my heart until my dying day.

The blackest crow that ever flew would surely turn to white,
If ever I prove false to thee, bright day would turn to night,
Bright day would turn to night, my love, the elements would mourn,
If ever I prove false to thee, the seas would rage and burn.




I never saw any reason to think creatively about it; I just assumed it meant that the singer would be willing to give up material wealth to be with her lover, would rather be with her lover above all others, and that the crows changing colors and seas burning were an measure of the impossibility of her being untrue.

I've always assumed this was a distillation of an older, longer song, and wondered if it wasn't originally an actual ballad (i.e. with a coherent story line) that might have involved parents forcing young people to choose between love and inheritance.

Subject: Origins: Blackest Crow - based on a letter?
From: GUEST,imagocorvi
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 11:44 AM

I think I have read all the threads involving this song - which mostly deal with misunderstood lyrics, but I did an internet search some time ago and came across a reference that said the song was originally based on an actual letter. I didn't (of course) record the site - so now I can't find it. Can anyone help me out with finding this reference?

Thanks in advance

Subject: RE: Origins: Blackest Crow - origin
From: peregrina
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 12:05 PM

I think that 'The Blackest Crow' is related to the words and tune of Hick's Farewell.


When Doc Watson sings Hicks' Farewell on the Folkways CD 'Doc Watson and Clarence Ashley 1960-1962' he introduces the song by saying that Reverend Hicks of South Carolina wrote the words and music when he was off doing missionary work in Tennessee; he fell ill, thought he would die, and wanted the song sent back to his wife.



Mary

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: GUEST,Simple man
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 12:55 AM

This is simple. A man hates to see his love die.

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: GUEST,Simpler man
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 12:57 AM

What the fuck are you all talking about?

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: GUEST,Ehm...
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 01:01 AM

perhaps she lives on and he dies...I'm not sure...whatever :)

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 01:17 AM

i skimmed this 'un.

seems clear enough to me..

"'Tis bird I'd serve, for your sake...."


is clearly an early rip off of



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Would_Die_4_U


a simple heartfelt anguished death-bed song..


ie.. please take me not her God mate..

black bird crowe = death etc symbolism


[even though the police eventually found the arsenic bottle under the sink]

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 01:50 AM

i spent more time reading this thread..

and i get a more focused sense of 'leaving/death' ambiguity in the various versions..


i like this song..

its well Goth Alt Country Folk


its a keeper..


dunno what the tune is..

but i can make one up in Dm

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: GUEST,pogoat
Date: 03 Mar 12 - 03:31 PM

The time is growing near, my dear, when you and I must part. no one can know the inward grief of my poor broken heart.
so give to me your hand my dear,
and love from every vein
and promise me that you'll be true until we meet again

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: foggers
Date: 03 Mar 12 - 04:16 PM

Spooky- I read this thread earlier today cos I am learning the song and wanted to research the background. I think it is so beautiful and sad: had to work on it lots before I could get through it without choking up.

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Mar 12 - 04:46 PM

1. As time draws near, my dearest dear,
When you and I must part,
What little you know of the grace and awe
Of my poor aching heart.
Each night I suffer for your sake,
You're the one I love so dear;
I wish that I was going with you,
Or you were staying here.

2. I wish my breast was made of glass
Wherein you might behold
Oh there your name I's wrote, my dear,
In letters made of gold.
Oh there your name I's wrote, my dear,
Believe me what I say,
You are the one I love the best
Until my dying day.

3. The crow that is so black, my love,
will surely turn to white
If ever I prove false to you,
Bright day return to night.
Bright day return to night, my love
The elements will mourn,
If ever I prove false to you
The seas will rage and burn.

4. And when you're on some distant shore,
Think of your absent friend,
And when the wind blows high and clear,
A line to me, pray send.
And when the wind blows high and clear,
Pray send a note to me,
That I might know by your handwrite
How time has gone with thee.

NOTE 1: Songs with glass breast / blackest crow imagery are to be found in:
Belden Ballads & Songs, MO Folklore Society, p. 484 (Banishment)
Brown North Carolina Folklore, vol. III, p. 262 (The Slighted Girl)
Randolph Ozark Folksongs, vol. IV, #760, (I Love You Well)
Sharp English Folksongs from S. Appalachians, Vol. II, #77 (p. 13) (My Dearest Dear)

NOTE 2 (10/1/2008): I received a message from a correspondent who prefers to remain anonymous that John Barleycorn Must Die is not Irish, but rather of English origin. A check with the Ballad Index (www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/ShH84.html) shows that he is correct and I'm wrong (there are some Scottish versions, but no Irish). I swear there's an Irish accent in my mind when I think of the song, though, so perhaps I once heard the Chieftans or the Clancy Brothers sing the song. But forget I said anything about Irish.

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 03 Mar 12 - 07:04 PM

Dick, where's that set from?

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Mar 12 - 07:46 PM

http://www.lizlyle.lofgrens.org/RmOlSngs/RTOS-BlackestCrow.html

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: Richie
Date: 03 Mar 12 - 11:38 PM

It has the "elements will mourn" which I think should be the "elements will turn." I think I said this in a similar thread.

Richie

Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 04 Mar 12 - 10:32 AM

The American song - also known as The True Lovers' Farewell, Turtle Dove, Ten Thousand Miles and A-Roving On A Winter's Night, has its roots in a 17th century English broadside, in which it's a swan whose feathers will change from white to black. See Steve Gardham's article (scroll down and click on no. 20 in LH margin) for a discussion on the early history of this song.

Subject: RE: Origins:The Blackest Crow: meaning//Dearest Dear
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Sep 22 - 04:18 PM

needs cleanup

Subject: RE: Origins:The Blackest Crow: meaning/Dearest Dear
From: leeneia
Date: 06 Sep 22 - 01:54 PM

Clean up? Here you go.

1. The time draws near, my dearest dear,
When you and I must part.
You little know the grace and awe
in my poor aching heart.
Each night I suffer for your sake,
for you I love so dear;
I wish that I could go with you,
Or you were staying here.

2. I wish my breast were made of glass
Wherein you might behold
that there your name appears, my dear,
In letters made of gold.
Oh there your name appears, my dear,
Believe me when I say
You are the one I love the best
Until my dying day.

3. The crow that is so black, my love,
will surely turn to white
If ever I prove false to you,
Bright day will turn to night.
Bright day will turn to night, my love
The elements will churn,
If ever I prove false to you,
The seas will rage and burn.

4. And when you're on a distant shore,
Think of your absent friend,
And when the wind blows high and clear,
A line to me, pray send.
And when the wind blows high and clear,
Pray send a note to me,
That I might know by your handwrite
How time has gone with thee.
==============
Re: elements. Aristotle's earthly elements were air, water, earth and fire. I can picture them churning, say, at the eruption of Krakatoa, with its lava, ash in the air, tsunami and no doubt high winds. Another example would be the San Francisco quake and fire.

I decided to keep "handwrite." It's so nicely old-fashioned.