BS: Men and the porcine element

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: Alice
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 11:25 AM

Yes, Peg, I agree. I don't really like gender profiling.

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: gnu
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 01:21 PM

OK then !! Didn't want to kill the thread. I just wanted to see if any of the anyone would jump on me before they knew my point of view. Obviously, Jenny was on the side of justice in bringing in a criminal. Persuant to some posts to this thread, she was focussed on mate choice by looking at his career and moral fibre, while our robber was blinded by love. Had he chosen a mate based on mutual concerns and life goals, rather than on love, he may have escaped gaol. However, I doubt if many view the song in this light, and, more to the discussion at hand, I doubt if many viewed my post as anything but bitter.

Oink, eh ?

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: WyoWoman
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 01:37 PM

Yup. I prefer to take my people, and form my assessments, one at a time. As for why people end up with the people they do? It's a crap game and a turkey shoot. (Or sometimes you just wish you'd shot the turkey!)

But ... I don't think having dissed men long enough and now convinced them that they are, indeed, pigs is an improvement over how things used to be. And I don't think having women ogling men's bums and making comments about their "package" is liberation. Once again, we accept the worst of both worlds and call it progress.

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 02:08 PM

I'm almost sorry this thread took such a serious turn. I agree that sterotyping is not only still dominant, but generally a very bigoted attitude as well. People often are simply what they are outside of gender and the accompanying stereotypes.   Tim Allen made his career on that stereotype though and it was a far more relaxed style because for whatever reason, much of it was true.......overplayed certainly, but true to some degree. There is a good deal of humor to be found in the most innocent of things we do.

Do you remember the first time you realized that your parents had sex? I mean, you probably didn't want to believe it did you? Now that may be because of what we were taught, that sex was somehow dirty or whatever. It's an experience that most of us had. It's easy to have a laugh over it while also discussing the things we were taught and their correctness (or not). So...in that vein.......I get a kick out of a few of the Mom's here!!

Okay, your son is not a pig. My Mom believed that too because there are some things that aren't done!   I will bet however that your boys scratch their nuts......not with you around.....but they do, and often in public, providing you aren't there. There is a list of things that might be considered "piggy" and less than acceptable behaviors that men do......both as boys and men.......and parents are really not in the best position to see it. That's even more true if your son is intelligent and generally well behaved.....a model of decorous behavior.

So the next time you think your son didn't shout at his friend who said he had to go do homework (for instance), "Hey Tommy....I gotcher homework right here!" while holding his dick.........Try to remember how you felt when you realized your parents actually DID IT!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: kendall
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 03:04 PM

Only a mothers' certain knowledge that her children will be exceptional keeps her from drowning them at birth. (Lazarus Long)

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: gnu
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 03:48 PM

Shite !! Close call for me !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 04:58 PM

Which raises a philosophical question. If Hitler (insert tyrant of your choice)'s mother could have seen what would happen in the future, would they have drowned the infant at birth?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 05:51 PM

Liz, in a short story I once wrote I postulated that question- in it, Hitler's mother does kill her only child- the reader eventually discovers that she is unknowingly pregnant with her second child- the one who really does end up being 'Hitler'. It is not possible to foresee all contingencies.

Back to the swinish (what an awful word!) question...

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 06:03 PM

HAH! Kendall, you belong over in the "Misquotations" thread. The correct quote is ""Delusions are often functional. A mother's opinions about her children's beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth." (Paperback edition, Time Enough for Love, p. 241)
The frirst sentence, IMHO, is the heart of the quote.
never thirst! (double message, am following the medical advice you are getting & hope all will be OK)

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 06:29 PM

Spaw, I still have a very difficult time believing my parents ever did it. And they had five kids. If you knew my parents, you would understand why.

And yes, my son does like to believe he was an immaculate conception.

I wasn't really thinking about slobbish behavior when I said my son's not a pig. I was thinking more about consideration for the feelings of others and being honorable in his dealings with others, including women. And believe me when I tell you, my son tells me everything (I really mean everything, because he likes to, not because he has to), so I would know it if he wasn't.

(P.S. If you don't believe me about my son telling me everything, ask Max. I made him close his ears when I told Emily about one of the things my son told me.)

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: kendall
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 08:04 PM

Pete, I was quoting from the condensed version. Pedantic is bad enough, but, being verbose AND pedantic, well...it's just not a New England thing. Brevity is the soul of wit, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 08:52 PM

No Kendall, brevity is the soul of lingerie.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: kendall
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 09:17 PM

hhmmm...that couldn't be the origin of "briefs" could it?

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: Desdemona
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 09:21 PM

And tediousness is just the flourishes for the outward limbs!

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 11:41 PM

Kendall, what's the old story about the Congregational minister talking to a priest, saying grandly "well, we each worship God, each in our own way". . . and the priest replied "yes, we do, you in your way, I in His." (A verbose and pedantic way of saying I try to get Heinlein quotes exactly. . . some of the good stuff is in the details)

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:07 AM

Well, I just got the answer to the burning question straight from the mouth of the horse (not pig) himself.

It seems that in the case of my friend, the statement "men are pigs" refers to that Jimmy Carter phenomenon wherin he finds himself having "lust in his heart". That makes pretty good sense to me, and doesn't sound like it means he is particularly lacking in character.

I still don't think men are pigs. This is what I said to my friend when he first told me that...

"Men are not pigs. Men are human beings, and human beings are fallible. As you know, women are fallible, too. We all do the best we can."

And I still believe that (mostly).

What an amazing thread this has been. Thanks everybody, for your input. I think I've learned a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:37 AM

P.S. I especially like this bit...

Having said that, I would add that such sweeping generalizations are irrational...I do not find it useful to think like that, preferring instead to evaluate the people I encounter on an individual basis

--michaelr

That's such a great word, "irrational".

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: JudeL
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 06:33 AM

Spaw : not brevity but lace is the soul of lingerie

Subject: RE: BS: Men and the porcine element
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 11:29 AM

...supposedly there is an evolutionary 'survival-of-the-fittest' theory for the differences in men and women in regards to fidelity and monogamy (and selectivity). It has to do with reproduction and goes like this:

Assuming a healthy male, with each ejaculation men have the abilty to fertilize an egg. Their role in these matters is merely a passive one: to provide fertilization - to any egg, anywhere, anytime.

On the other hand, women have a window of only a few days each month within which to conceive.

Therefore, women tend to be more selective in choosing fathers for their children. Ostensibly, the mother would want to choose the 'strongest' male to fertilize her eggs in order to maximize the probability that her children survive.

It could explain why some men have a problem keeping their pants zipped and why some women play "hard to get."