BS: Too much negative - bring back balance

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: SharonA
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 01:03 PM

Good point, MMario! I guess our GUEST writes to his mom anonymously... "Dear Mrs. So-and-so, my only reason for writing to you without signing my name or putting a return address on the envelope is that I know how much you hate not knowing who's writing to you. How utterly irrational of you. Love, me."

If I were GUEST's mom, and I got a letter like that, not knowing it was from my kid, I'd feel that it was perfectly rational to contact the police so they could check it for anthrax! *G*

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 01:15 PM

Some who identify themselves only as GUEST post some very cogent and worthwhile comments and information. Other GUESTS are here only to be provocative. The former I read and appreciated. The latter, I skip. One doesn't have to read more than a few words to tell which is which.

Don Firth (who should proof-read more carefully before he hits the "Submit" button)

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: MMario
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 01:18 PM

very true, Don!

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: GUEST,Echo
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 01:31 PM

Newbies seem to like it fine here, and it seems the old timers are the ones who are, well...bored.

My response? Find new horizons. I'd be bored shitless too if I'd been coming to the one and only same same same chat forums for years. God, I can't even stand going to them more often than a couple times a week.

IMO, there is a terrible, cynical malaise in all the arts communities I am active in. Everyone seems bored, that there is nothing new under the sun to be tried, as though we all must accept this postmodern twilight as the only possible reality for the rest of our sorry ass lives.

My response to those of you who are clearly bored at Mudcat is this: turn off your computer for the rest of the summer. Go to Vegas for show tunes, or Paris for torch singers, or Truth or Consequences for the pow wow, Toronto for the music festivals. Listen to some music you usually never listen to. Do non-music related interesting things.

You'll come back refreshed, and more in tune with the newcomers. It all goes in cycles in internet forums. I find the problems are usually with veteran/long timers getting bored and burned out, not the newcomers who like things just fine.

The political BS is really of a pretty high caliber in Mudcat for a chat forum. Really. And if people don't challenge one another's points of view, you never learn new things, to see things from a different vantage point, etc. The political BS does get nasty, but so too can the music and other non-music BS threads. Remember the nastiness the prayer threads used to cause? No different in intensity or tone than the political stuff.

There will always be people who blame the politically inclined or the religiously inclined for the perceived "decline in civility" arguments. I don't think it is either. I think the old timers just like having it their way too much. I agree with Bobert (sorry Jeri, I know you are well intentioned, but...) about the "been there done that" posting of old timers of links to old threads. I've rarely found much of value in any of the discussion threads (though there are a few exceptions). I find it more helpful to just refresh the thread in question and tell people about it. Too often, providing the link really does seem to let the air out of the sails of the conversation because it isn't in context.

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: MMario
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 01:35 PM

but refresing the thread without new content is also counterproductive.

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: GUEST,Echo
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 01:51 PM

So...

...the newcomers just aren't as funny/compassionate/informed (fill in the blank) as us old timers (or those who came before)--

...when you are bored, angry or all your arguments have failed to persuade, blame it all on anon--

...things aren't like they used to be in MY Good Old Days at Mudcat--

...don't talk about what you newcomers want to talk about, read what we've already said about this here & shut the fuck up because we've hashed the thing to death already...

See how some of you sound?

Like I said, turn off your computers. Stay off the internet. Go outside and have a swim, a picnic, a night out listening to the stars instead of the internet static for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: MMario
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 02:03 PM

echo? Where has anyone said anything like what you just posted? certainly not in this thread. And very few examples that I can think of over the breadth of the forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: Pseudolus
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 03:04 PM

I don't totally disagree with Echo. I think a certain amount of boredom does exist here and in fact contributes to the perception that things just aren't the same. I do however disagree with the attitude that he/she perceives the "oldtimers" have around here. I have never felt anything but welcome even way back when I first started coming here.

I follow the "if you don't like the thread, don't open it" rule, and it does work for ME....but I must admit that the threads that interest me have decreased. Am I bored? Maybe. I have followed Echo's advice well before it was given. I stay away from time to time, sometimes I read but don't feel compelled to post, but I always come back. The people out there that post just to stir up the pot know who they are and we have always had them around.....unfortunately, they're not going anywhere.

So what do we do? I say that we should stay active. If you need to stay away, as many of us have, do it, but you can't make a difference if you AREN'T HERE!! Come back, add music threads, respond to the threads that interest you. This place will become what we as a group want it to be, each of us with a niche that he/she can fit into nicely, even trolls and flamers. But if you leave, or merely complain that this place isn't what you'd like it to be, the people who have made it that way just increase the size of their niche!

I'm with ya Kat, I would like to see more positive threads, BS or music or both!! Thanks for starting this one.....

So, how long do I have to be here to be considered an "oldtimer" or is being 44 enough??? *BG*

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 03:28 PM

You mean to say that the Druids did the Hokey-Pokey? I always understood it was the Shakers that invented the Hokey-Pokey, even though they didn't actually hokey pokey themselves...

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 04:01 PM

Frank, I thought Pseudolus was just a soo-duh-nim for Methuselah, so I reckon yer an ol' timer already.*g*

And, I thank you and everyone else who has posted, though I do think garg was being a bit repetitive with those very unimaginative lyrics!

Check it out, Kim! it was the Druids!! Too kewl!

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 06:24 PM

There is sometimes a good reason for putting links to old threads in a new thread. Sometimes it's useful to link related threads together for anyone who comes along later and wants to check them both (all) out. It's much easier to keep track of discussion on a particular subject if the threads on that subject are linked.

I'm sure there are cases where this wouldn't apply, and it wouldn't be appropriated to link an old thread to a new one, but it can sometimes be useful.

Subject: RE: BS: Too much negative - bring back balance
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 10:07 PM

to address the subject of the thread:

folks....it is mathematics and the dynamics of large groups! When it was much smaller, we had very few 'nasty' posts. I can't remember any real trend till Gargoyle got his dander up.....but eventually, with a LARGE assortment of personalities, someone will take issue with a comment, a topic..or just an attitude!

Sure, we can plead for restraint and sometimes even get a little, but with Max's policy of "I build the sandbox, it's YOUR responsibility to play nice in it" (he said almost exactly that), the large group of folks who have wandered in here will inevitably include some malcontents of various persuasions. Some use their names (MAV), some post without names just to irritate and prove they can!

We get regular pleas to NOT respond to flames & trolls, and many "take the pledge", (I did...fell off the wagon..*wry smile*)...but the metaphor of this place being like a community or a family is more relevant than before. We have a central organizing theme, but like at a festival or singing party, lots of stuff is going on that is not music!

At a party, you can (usually) go in the other room...or at least not join the conversation you don't like...and you CAN do that here, but the threads being in a long list are a snare!...there is a "NO BS" way to view the threads, but only a handful seem to be willing to use it, and it does depend on the thread being titled that way...and there is no avoiding threads that creep.*sigh*

I used to protest about the % of music threads and the TYPE of music, too....but once Max made his declaration, I said to myself..."self", I said, "you might as well give up and go with the flow,'cause the good parts are as good as it gets, and the idiots are gonna be here anyway!"

I, also, have been reading 'fewer' threads than I used to, for various reasons: 1)there are MORE, and time is a factor.. 2)they are getting repetitious in some ways, 3) I am tired of my OWN reaction to anonymous 'guests'

but as I have said, there is NO place like this, and I will never give it up...I have met people here who have become real friends RT, and I have learned so much it awes me. And it has allowed me to hone my own thoughts on many subjects---musical and non-musical.

I am a better person for having spent 5++ years in this digital craziness, and I chose it of my own free will....