BS: Middle East: Solutions

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 10:27 PM

And it was interesting that this 11 year old kid was released by Isreali authorities because they knew him and knew he had been been put up to it.... Then cameras asked the kid what he wanted to do when he grew up and he said "be a suicide bomber"... This oughtta send some message to those who think things are going peachy...

This foriegn policy isn't working. Sure, one can say, "Hey, what can then US do?" but to these folks I'd just point to two facts:

1. The Clinton administration made a huge effort to broker peace and...

2. The US sends a lot of our tax dough to Isreal...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 04:11 PM

I recently attended a presentation by Barbra Sokol- noted Isreali author and a Director of Public Relations for Israel. (she is a wonderful speaker with great stories) She presented 4 alternatives for Israel and explained why all 4 of them were bad.   She did not have any solutions.   She did say that people in Israel are now open to land for peace- something that did not exist in the past.   On the other hand, they will not(I repeat) will not negotiate with Arafat.   

The Palestinians were given a bad deal.   They were told by the arabs in 1948 that as soon as Israel became a state, they would "drive them into the sea" and the Palestinians would be given their land. The Palestinians have been waiting 50 years for that to happen with no land in site.   Israel doesn't want them.   The arabs don't want them.

At the end of her presentation I suggested a fifth alternative.   I believe in the history of mankind that peace only comes after total unconditional victory.   Either the Palestinians need to go back to Jordan (Palestinian have never had their own country or land or government or currncy or constitution) or be destroyed.   Sokol rejected that as immoral and not even to be considered.

Given that thinking, I don't see a solution.   I only see terrorism and retaliation.   I only see Arafat getting wealthy while his people live in poverty and blow themselves up.   I only see the rest of the middle east not really caring about Isreal and the Palestinians killing each other.   And finally, I only see that people in the USA turning away and not wanting to deal with it.    The prevailing ignorance of uninformed people is that both of them are wrong and they wish they would both stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 04:30 PM

As long as people continue to believe the idea that the Palestinians migrated from Jordan to Israel, instead of the truth, which is that they have been living in that area for over a thousand years (even though they may not have called themselves "Palestinians" the whole time, and even though they were governed by outside forces, such as the Ottomans and others, rather than having independence and their own government), there probably will not be any solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 04:52 PM

As long as people continue to believe the idea that the Palestinians migrated from Jordan to Israel, instead of the truth

I don't know anyone who thinks the Palestinians migrated from Jordan to Israel. The fact, though, is that the Jordanian kingdom was artificially carved out of historical Palestine, which is why many people equate the Palestinians with the Jordanians.

It is also a fact that the West Bank territory claimed by the Palestinians was part of Jordan from 1948-1967 (while Gaza in that period was part of Egypt) and that during that time the Palestinians, Jordanians and Egyptians had no interest in any kind of Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. In those days, the call remained for the destruction of Israel and for the Jews to be driven into the sea.

In 1979, Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty. At that time Israel dismantled all of its settlements in the Sinai and returned the territory to Egypt. Egypt, however, washed its hands of Gaza and the Palestinians there.

In 1994, Jordan and Israel also signed a peace treaty. Jordan, however, had already washed its hands of the West Bank and the Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 05:00 PM

I was responding to this part of Larry K's post:

Either the Palestinians need to go back to Jordan. (Emphasis mine)

As far as the Palestinians who's families have lived in what is now Israel and the Occupied Territories for centuries are concerned, all of this political bickering over the land that has been their home for more than a millenium is not the issue. For them, the issue is that they are being driven from their homes by a lot of outside forces who don't really have any legitimate claim to this land. These people take it simply because they can.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 05:08 PM

As is evident from the reaction of Israeli official in Larry K's post, his vision is an extremist one that Israel itself categorically rejects.

You give that position much more prominence in these discussions at Mudcat, than anyone beyond a small fringe, does in Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 07:16 PM

This is spiralling down into the same old stuff.

Anyone like to try my suggestion? That is, jump forward, say 100 years, to a time when things have been sorted out and people are living together in peace, and try to look back and pick out what happened to bring that about.

That's optimistic of course - it's possible to imagine an end-game which isn't nice to contemplate. Ethnic cleansing, genocidal war...But I think it could be helpful to imagine a future in which that hasn't happened, and see how they got there.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 07:37 PM

McGrath...Your living in cloud cuckoo land. This is not some sporting encounter, were involved in a fight to the death.
The two opposing sides, Moslem fundamentalists(Islam), and the Global capitalists,who are also "Fundamentalists" in their own way.
Defeat for either side would be terminal in the long run, so they have no alternative but to use any means at their disposal to ensure survival.
If my hunch is correct, the Capitalists will turn out to be just as bloodthirsty as the Moslems when their backs are to the wall.The Capitalist religion was never much hindered by Scruples...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 07:43 PM

I'm 100% with you, McG..... There are folks that just get so bogged down in detail that they can't see the forest thru the trees. These people aren't the folks you wnat around a peace process. Their thought processes are poisoned in negativity...

I've suggested a general framework in this thread and haven't really had one person find fault with it other than the first step in getting rid of the Bush folks as a first step. But lets say that doesn't happen, the rest of the plan is still possible....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 07:46 PM

Global capitalists? Capitalist religion? As led by the precepts of the 'Protocals of the Elders of Zion", I presume. Jerk.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 07:52 PM

Artbrooks..."Protocals of the elders of Zion"...Please explain...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 07:53 PM

A "fight to the death" ends when one party gets killed, or both do. It is of course possible that the conflict in the Holy Land will end up that way, and I admitted that that is quite possible. In 100 years all the Israelis, or all the Palestinians may be dead or fled, or the whole area might be a radioactive desert.

But I think it's more useful to try to imagine ways in which this kind of "solution" might have been avoided.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 08:21 PM

ake: The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion was a book that appeared in the late 1800s. It was purported to be the blueprint for a Zionist takeover of the world. It is a fake of course, an anti-Jewish piece of crap. It is hate literature (although I don't
see it as 'literature' at all). It is a piece of garbage that surfaces from time to time and is held up by anti-Jewish groups as proof that Jewish people are cheats, etc. The book is BS. It is like "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century". Garbage and false scholarship.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 08:25 PM

Artbrooks: TPOTLEOZ is actually happening. However, it is not Jewish people doing it. It is multinationals and governments. Akenaton is not a racist, and I don't think it's right to suggest he is.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 09:11 PM

You give that position much more prominence in these discussions at Mudcat, than anyone beyond a small fringe, does in Israel

I only respond to it when I see it, Guest, C-watch. But you're wrong that only a small fringe in Israel believe this. There are a lot of Christians (mostly of the fundamentalist stripe) here in the US who believe it. I have a relative (Christian) who used to believe it. And although most of them are not in Israel (some of them are), US public opinion does have an impact on US policy in the Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: freda underhill
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 09:52 PM

Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,
With a cargo of ivory,
And apes and peacocks,
Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.

Stately Spanish galleon coming from the Isthmus,
Dipping through the Tropics by the palm-green shores,
With a cargo of diamonds,
Emeralds, amethysts,
Topazes, and cinnamon, and gold moidores.

Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack,
Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,
With a cargo of Tyne coal,
Road-rails, pig-lead,
Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.

       -- John Masefield

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 10:33 PM

But you're wrong that only a small fringe in Israel believe this.

Since I spend a month in Israel twice a year, and am in touch with Israelis on a daily basis, I suspect that my first-hand understanding of the Israeli people may be better than someone whose knowledge comes from media and websites.

The extremist position of Larry K is that of a very small fringe. Israel has reached the point where even right wing politicians like Ariel Sharon are acknowledging that the future lies in a Palestinian state.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 10:42 PM

This is a joke -

I think we need to fund a giant space borne holographic device that can project a giant image of God in all of his glory, flowing white beard and robe to a spot in the very center of Israel and announce in Heavenly tone:

"Are you Meshugenna? The promised land isn't here! Oy! I should never have given Moses verbal direction! Carve it in stone! That's my motto! Now all of you that truly believe pack up and move to Florida. Now that's the promised land!"

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 10:46 PM

Guest, C-watch, you seem to be saying that among Israelis, only a small fringe believe it. The way you had it worded originally, I wasn't sure weather that was your meaning, or if you meant that the only people who believe this (possibly anywhere in the world) are a small fringe in Israel.

I have no idea how many people in Israel believe it. I'm willing to take your word that it's only a small fringe. But I have never suggested that many Israelis believe it. I have only suggested that many people believe it. And the fact is that many do (and more than a few of them seem to post to the Mudcat), and those people who do believe it, at least those here in the US, can and do have an impact on how things happen in the Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 12:45 AM

Brucie: when the Muslem religion and the "Capitalist religion" are seen as the two opposing sides in Israel, one immediately assumes that the "Capitalist religion" means Judeism. BTW, I would not accuse him of being racist. Race has nothing to do with being Jewish. Antisemitic is something else entirely. If you really think that multinationals and governments are engaged in a conspiracy to institute a world under the control of Jews, which is what you appear to be saying in your post of 8:25 PM, perhaps you should consider seeking medical assistance.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 01:01 AM

I am saying exactly the opposite, Artbrooks. The Protocols are trash. Jews don't control governments or multinationals. The Protocols simply show a methodology that seems to be at play today. It has nothing to do with Jews or Muslims. It has to do with international banks and big business. They are not under the control of Jews or Muslims. You put those words in my mouth. Not me. You should seek assistance with your reading hotshot.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 01:04 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 03:15 AM

well said freda

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 07:53 AM

Brucie: perhaps I read things too literally. If your intent was not to say that multinationals and governments are implementing the Protocals, whose only purpose is supposedly to put Jews in charge of the world, then I apologize. I'm sure that you are aware that there are many otherwise intelligent people who still believe that they are literally the blueprint of the "New World Order."

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: kendall
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 08:53 AM

I don't mean to "drop a clod in the churn" here , but let's discuss this phrase, "Israel's right to exist"
Where does this right come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 10:17 AM

Artbrooks,

Yeah, which is why I hesitate even to mention the Protocols. We know they were fabricated and we know they are racist documents.

I apologize for my remarks to you; the Protocols are a fake document, but I see the things written in them being played out today. It has nothing to do with Jews. I get upset when people even mention the damnable thing. It's the NWO doing its work.

Take care,

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 11:17 AM

Kendall, you're in the wrong thread. This is the 'solutions' thread and not the 'left anti-semitism' thread.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 02:22 PM

Artbrooks ...I see my friend Brucie has taken up the cudgel on my behalf. I was being sincere when I said I did not know of the book you mention.
I am certainly not anti-semitic, or bigoted in any other way I hope.
"Capitalist religion" was a kick at the capitalist system and the " fundamentalists who control it,and nothing against the Jews at all.
The biggest wrong in the Palestine situation ,to my mind was not perpetrated by the Jews but by the British government who organised the whole shambolic affair....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 07:18 PM

That's unfair Wolfgang - kendall's suggestion that it's worth trying to define a phrase that people throw around very freely, is a reasonable one.

Does "the right of Israel to exist" mean "the right of people who live in Israel to maintain this territory as an independent state" or does it mean "the right of one ethnic group in Israel to ensure that it will always maintain control over this country, and to ensure that it will always remain as a dominant majority"?

The former right is one which is generally held to exist for all countries. The latter is something different - and in fact, within the European Union, it does not exist, since we all have freedom to move and live and work in each others countries.

It can be argued that the terrible history of the Jewish people is a valid reason for this kind of difference from other countries, but it is a difference.

In the thought experiment I suggested, looking back from a hundred years ahead, I can envisage a world in which Israel existed within a trans national grouping similar to that of the European Union - perhaps even linked with it, along with other Southern Mediterranean countries, with all its citizens having this same freedom to live and work anywhere within it.

Would this mean that Israel had lost its freedom to exist,any more than Ireland or Germany have lost their freedom to exist?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 10:08 PM

Perhaps God himself is at fault! It seems he has each side covinced that they are fighting for him! If He is all powerfull it is time for Him to send these zealots on all sides a message that they can understand.
If not, religious teaching in schools should be banned worldwide , allowing children to mingle before they learn to hate. Only then can they see each other as fellow human beings, who just happen to have different beliefs.
For eons wars have been caused and fueled by religious belief, and as a world society we must acknowledge the cause before we can address the cure!

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 10:21 PM

I had the opportunity today to meet a fascinating Palestinian man named Walid Shoebat. Once a PLO terrorist, Walid is now working for peace.

Here are two articles about him

From the BBC.

From the Jewish Week.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 11:12 PM

Here's the story of another Palestinian man who is working for peace:

His organization; The Palestinian Center for Conflict Resolution and Reconciliation

This is what happened to his organization in spring of 2002; Noah's story

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 06:56 AM

McGrath, my post was meant flippantly, but if it is read as serious, then I agree, it is unfair.

The serious background of my line:
(1) I was quite glad we could discuss the issue rather civilised here, quite different as in the other thread. Kendall's remark could have been the start for a decline of the discussion here to the level of the other thread. That's why I did mention the other thread.
(2) As for solutions, good negotiators know that moaning about past wrongs is the best way to ensure a bad end for the negotiotions. I had read Kendall's remark in that way, directed at the past (tell us, why are you Jews here at all, that's our place). Your reading of Kendall's remark looks to the future which is a far better way to solve conflicts. Had I read the remark your way I hadn't posted.
I hope your reading is the correct one.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 10:24 AM

If we are going to talk about Israel's right to exist, then we'd better follow up with the USA and Canada's right to exist. Also New Zealand and Australia. Want me to keep listing here?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 11:09 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: kendall
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 08:53 AM

I don't mean to "drop a clod in the churn" here , but let's discuss this phrase, "Israel's right to exist"
Where does this right come from?

________

I presume this is the same kendall whose home is on land that was stolen from the Abenakis.

Giving it back any time soon, kendall?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 12:02 PM

But what does "right to exist" actually mean? If there were an Arab majority, as would very likely have been the case if no refugees had left in 1948, would this mean that this conflict with "the right of Israel to exist".

It seems to me that when people speak of "the right of Israel to exist" they are conflating two meanings of "Israel" - one being, the nation state, and the other is, the Jewish people.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: DougR
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 01:34 PM

The Israli/Palestinian problem won't be settled until one has defeated the other. I've said that before, and I still believe it. It's not what I would prefer, I would prefer that negotians would work. I don't think they ever will. You have to have two parties ,each of whom are willing to compromise for negotiations to succeed. This is not the case with either Israel or Palestine. As has already been pointed out, neither Carter or Clinton could do it, and Bush's Roadmap lies languishing on the peace table.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 01:52 PM

Quite possiblt true,Doug. And that is very depressing, because in the long run that is going to mean that Israel will go the way of the Crusader states within a few generations.

Now is the time when it is still possible for Israel to reach a settlement which will ensure that doesn't happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 03:03 PM

The Israli/Palestinian problem won't be settled until one has defeated the other.

Maybe you need to define the term "defeat", DougR. Seems to me the Palestinians have already been pretty well defeated, short of being gotten rid of altogether. They are a people living under occupation.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 03:21 PM

From a purely military standpoint, Israel is so far superior to the Palestinians that an all-out war for the survival of only one or the other, would not be a contest.

If Israel had any desire to score such a defeat over the Palestinians, it would have happened long ago.

Despite the statistics that about twice as many Palestinians than Israelis have been killed during this Intifada, the fact is that Israel takes much more care than most countries to protect innocent civilians. If they didn't, the Palestinian death count would be much higher. More along the lines of what we've seen in Iraq, where approximately 20 times as many civilians than Americans have been killed.

One thing that should be pointed out is that almost all of the Israeli deaths have been randomly targeted civilians victimized by suicidal homocide bombers, while most of the Palestinian deaths have been either terrorists, terrorist masters, or the unfortunate civilians that the terrorists and their masters hide behind.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 03:44 PM

From a purely military standpoint, Israel is so far superior to the Palestinians that an all-out war for the survival of only one or the other, would not be a contest.

Short term that is true. And that is what makes it possible for Israel to negotatiate a settlement that will preserve its interests, and that s why it is important that it takes advantage of this temporary opportunity.

But long term "the purely military standpoint" is unlikely to stay the same way that happens to be today. History doesn't work that way. Military superiority just fades away, given a few decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 05:04 PM

Very true, McGrath. Without the Palestinians being in such close proximity to the Israelis, Israel would probably be a lot more vulnerable as a target for nuclear attacks from any number of sources than it is now.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 05:24 PM

McGrath,

While I don't see much possibility of the Palestinians ever having military superiority over Israel, I do think that a negotiated settlement is inevitable in the medium term, and that that is what the vast majority of Israelis want. As I said, Israel has demonstrated for many decades now that a decisive military victory over the Palestinians is not what they seek.

However, as I said in my first post to this thread, I don't think the settlement will come while Bush, Sharon and, especially, Arafat remain in power.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 05:29 PM

I am inclined to agree with GUEST C-watch. I don't think there is a specifically military solution available. I'd like to see a 'peace' force in there. Canadians are good at that.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 07:12 PM

I've always thought it was a tragedy that, after 1967, an offer wasn't put on the table by Israel saying "Now Palestine/Eretz Israel is united once more, and it should stay united - and all exiled Palestinians can come home, and we will share this land between us in peace."

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 10:59 AM

So much for peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 11:47 AM

You mean the assassination by Israel of Sheik Yassin, together with a bunch of bystanders? It reads to me as if that was the idea behind this. To make sure that, even if the USA were to start leaning effectively on the Israel Government to make a deal, there'd be no danger of there being anyone in a position to respond, by making sure that Hamas is in control.

The online edition of the moderate Israeli paper Haaretz had Danny Rubinstein arguing 'that the killing "may well turn out to be a blow - not to Hamas, but to the Palestinian Authority". This is because, he writes, "the more Israel hits Hamas leaders and rank-and-file members, the more their popularity climbs".

Which ties in with what the Washington Post reminded its readers of about the origin of Hamas: "(Sheik Yassin) rose to prominence in the 1980s when Gazans turned increasingly toward a fundamentalist brand of Islam, encouraged at times by the territory's Israeli military occupiers, who saw Islamism as a political rival and counter-weight to Yasser Arafat's exiled Palestine Liberation Organization."

....................

But for a more positive story, here's a link to a piece about some brave young Israelis - Teenagers who stand for honesty, decency and sanity

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 09:35 AM

Pretty fair trade. Surgical strike on a known terrorist organizer and leader. Sure beats blowing up a bus of civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 09:58 AM

"Surgical strike" which killed seven other people and injured over 15 others who just happened to be there? God save us all from a murderous surgeon like that if we ever need an operation.

You'd think, when the target is a blind man in a wheelchair on a route that he regularly took, that they could have been a wee bit more "surgical" than that.

I cannot believe that in any sense this was intended as a way of "weakening" Hamas. And I cannot believe that the Israeli believed it either. The object was to strengthen Hamas in relation to the PLF, and destroy any chance of a peaceful settlement in one with the famous "Road Map". The hope is to inflame the situation, and ensure reprisals, both in Israel and elsewhere.

I gather that both the Israeli Interior Minister and the Israeli Minister of Justice were opposed to this assassination. They were outvoted.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 10:28 AM

Post-9/11, would we pass up a chance to kill Osama Bin Laden in a similar manner to that Israel used on Yassin? I don't think so.

Though terrorist efforts may increase *temporarily*, in the long run the elimination of Yassin will upset Hamas' leadership and violent capabilities, and serve as an essential deterrent to ongoing Palestinian terror. His elimination will serve peace *in the long run*. He was personally responsible for all the most dreadful attacks in Israel. He was a dangerous extremist Islamic ideologist. What Bin Laden was to 9/11 and many other terrorist operations, including last week's in Spain, Yassin was to the Palestinian terror murders committed in Israel. Yassin directed dozens of heinous terrorist attacks, his hands were drenched in Israeli blood.

Yassin continually called for suicide terrorism as a "religious obligation," and even said about himself that "the day in which I will die as a shahid [martyr] will be the happiest day of my life." (Al-Quds, July 26, 1998) I suppose Israel has made him happy.