BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 01:00 PM

Teribus - Thanks for the PM but why did you say you drove a ship? I thought ships were steered.

When considering a majority in Ireland, the island should be taken as a whole especially when Northern Ireland was created by a minority.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 01:00 PM

Always got the impression that you were a bit one dimensional when it came to your sources of information - that's what makes you such an easy target when it comes to shooting your arguements and line of reasoning to bits - I don't do it from the roof of the Flats though.

Still haven't answered that one have you, but then I don't think you ever will.

As for the Green Book, judging by your appearance on this forum and by the statements made by you in this forum - you've just about broken every rule in that book. Have not read Dillon, but I have read Tim Pat Coogan's Book on the IRA, it contains a rather scaithing description of the regard Provo volunteers were held in by their Offical counterparts.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 01:10 PM

I hold the Officals in the same equal to yourself, so that says enough. I will answer your question when you answer all these people that asked you for two weeks about remarks you made in earlier posts and then didn't have the balls to repeat them.Green book no longer applies since 27th July since the war ended, but you wouldn't know that would you. Ah well clearly won another one over you today !

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 02:42 PM

Sweeney,
You said of Teribus
"I note from some of your other posts you even made nasty remarks about your own people living in an area of London,"

Is this the Balham story, because if it is you have been lied to.

He really did not make such a post.

Attempting to discredit the opposition with lies undermines your credibility.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Epona
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 03:15 PM

I suppose that could go both ways, couldn't it?

E

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 03:35 PM

Oh Terminal the troops have arrived at last. Good to see where your loyalties are Keith. Saw you were not so quick to pull him on the remarks he made about me. Noted and remembered. So now the ex,soldier, ex Marine is driving ships ! Yes we get a lot of rain over here, but I can't ever recall seeing the armada come up the Lower Falls ! A few of us were going through the pm's I received today, and there was not a dry eye in the house. Please don't stop now, Keep your posts coming, we love them. As one put it, Great to see after our victory we can still get them angry. Rambo come on down !

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 03:49 PM

I was trying to be helpful!

For the record, I don't think much of the name calling from either of you.

If he is lying, I am not aware of it, but lies about Mudcat posts are easy to nail. He never posted about interrogating, or about the people of Balham.

Are you saying the TimeLife survey is a lie?
Or the death tallies?

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 04:19 PM

I have neither the Inclination or interest in searching Rambo's posts. There were a lot of people questioned him about it, that's what I referred to, no smoke without fire. As to the charts, Rambo stated the Provisional now killed all victims of the troubles ! Never hear him so no about British army murders of the Irish ? Or you for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 04:32 PM

He did NOT say the Provisionals killed all the victims!
Are you reading the same posts as the rest of us?

Also he has NEVER said he was a soldier, and specifically said he was NOT a marine.

You should go through his posts before pronouncing on them because you are being lied to and it does not help you to repeat obvious lies.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 06:53 PM

Which part of this Keith do you have trouble understanding ? Teribus - PM
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 01:46 PM

Hello there GUEST Eddie Bunting - Any apology from the organisation that you obviously support for killing that lady's brother???

Not at fuckin' hope.

The ten young men you allude to died of their own free will and were allowed to do so, all well and good they supported an organisation that were responsible for the deaths of 2055 and injuring somewhere in the region of 47,500. greatest good for the greatest number - 10 was a very cheap price to pay, apart from which Sands was a very poor historian and a writer of some absolutely appalingly inaccurate songs.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Epona
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 07:03 PM

Actually, the PIRA, in the Sutton index, were blamed for 1700+ deaths. (The number was in the 1700s). So, the statement "they supported an organisation that were responsible for the deaths of 2055," (the organization they supported being the PIRA) should be altered to read the real number. But, Teri was correct in the early posts when he cites Republican/Nationalist paramilities being held responsible for the 2055 deaths.

E

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 07:09 PM

Question Rambo, was the lobotomy painful ?

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 12:34 AM

Quite frankly, I am disappointed that the folks whose view I support are letting themselves get dragged into a dispute over who said what. It is the classic tactic by those whose actions are indefensible. It is called "shifting the premise". In this debate the defenders of the Crown have managed to make the discussion about all manner of things that are not germane.

There is no defense of UK actions in the North, most especially during the time of Thatcher. Who killed how many only serves to obscure the real issue which has to do with the actions of the British military, the RUC, and the various loyalists groups in denying basic civil rights to the Catholic/Republican citizens. This has been substantiated at every level. War is war, whether it is being fought by regular armies or by guerilla forces has no bearing on its legitimacy. ANC, the Free French, and many others demonstrate this point.

The McCartney family suffered a terrible loss. So have the families of fallen British soldiers in the North. As have the families of the IRA soldiers that died in this war, whether on the streets or in the Kesh. It is time to bury the dead and get on with peace. Remember them in whatever way has significance to you. And then get about the business at hand. The children of the North deserve this. There should not be one more generation that grows up looking over their shoulders.

The demographics are changing, lads. And so are the politics. Anyone who fights that will simply be a sad loser.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 01:38 AM

Fair enough Mick, but it is hard not to challenge a cynical campaign of lies against a Mudcat contributor in an attempt to discredit him.

You are right of course about demography. Pro Brithishness currently is the majority in the North, but soon that will change.

Funny and sad to think that if PIRA had made love instead of war they would have achieved a united Ireland sooner.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Stu
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 04:26 AM

Good to see we're all moving on then

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 04:38 AM

Hi dianavan,

'drive' is the slang term used, to be technically correct while the helmsman (Cox'n and Bosun's mates in the RN) may steer the ship, the Officer of Watch cons the ship.

The GFA specifically stated that it would be up to the population of Northern Ireland to decide in a referendum whether or not THEY wanted to be part of the UK or be part of a united Ireland. The survey undertaken in 2004 would seem to indicate that 59% of the population wish to within the United Kingdom. In a referendum question put to the whole population of Ireland at the time of the GFA, a massive majority (high 80's) totally rejected the use of violence in the determination of politics in Ireland - that vote exploded the myth that the PIRA or any other paramilitary group were acting on behalf of, or at the request of the people of Ireland.

In a previous post on who should have been included in a referendum right at the start of 'The Troubles' I said that had that included the whole of the British Isles (geographically speaking) the population on the British mainland would have favoured the abandonment of Northern Ireland. The historian, A.J.P. Taylor was all for pulling out and just letting them get on with it, he was of the opinion that their little sectarian row was not worth the life of a single soldier, policeman or member of the emergency services. Lots agreed with him but from the Governments point of view (UK and Ireland's) that was never an option.

Of course had that happened Divi and his little band of volunteers would never have got their computers and would not now be tapping away at their keyboards and arguing over what GUEST name to adopt for their next post. The mental picture of them down in their 'centre', providing moral support as they collectively try to shake of their addiction to what ever drugs they were fed, in their second hand combat jackets and balaclavas all pouring over the internet, while Divi informs them of what is truth and what is lie (Under direction from his man Martin).

As Keith said the lies are easily disproved on this forum - Divi can continue to rely on them - I will settle for independently obtained and verified fact.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 04:49 AM

I have stated on more than one occasion on this site my desire to pursue peace in MY country and welcomed July's statement that the war is over. I have stated on this site regret at the loss of life during the armed struggle. I have stated on this site I have no support for dissident Republican groups. I have stated on this site that the murder of Robert McCarntney was wrong. What the hell more from me do you want ? All I get is events of 30 years ago being thrown in my face and although I state regret and have echoed the apology, still it's not enough. Regarding your remark about a cynical campaign Keith, is your friend here the only victim ? Has he stated his regret ? If anyone makes verbal attacks on the Provisionals I will retaliate. I suppose now I am at fault for being a Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 04:58 AM

Divis Sweeney, that post of 07 Nov 05 - 04:49 AM is plainly and clearly stated. That's good enough for me.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 04:59 AM

Thanks Teribus

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 04:08 PM

Threads like this remind me of Stan Rogers' song: "The House Of Orange".

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 05:22 PM

I guess if you say so. I don't see much resemblance. Stan's song is about blind allegiance and never questioning. This thread, despite its contentious moments is really about the hard questions, and folks talking it through. It is the antithesis of what Stan was saying, IMO.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 01:17 AM

I had been reading through this thread with great interest and enjoyment - I love the smell of hot, cross Irishmen in the morning! - when I noticed that one GUEST, Ralph, had, on 6/11 at 7:28AM, claimed that I am Teribus in disguise, and that he had told him so in a pm! What rubbish! I am an English Tasmanian living near Hobart (Check my other posts if you don't believe me). Another pathetic attempt to rubbish Teribus which says a lot about the poor calibre of his opposition.

Keep it up Teribus. You've got the sad spotty would be street-fitin' men absolutely foaming with impotent hatred simply by being honest and refusing to be browbeaten, and it's great entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 01:41 AM

Divis Sweeney, I am re-reading some of your posts with disbelief - a lower level of shrill juvenile gibberish would be hard to imagine - you should be ashamed of yourself. I am a Primary school teacher and the kind of arguments and abuse you are producing are characteristic of a bad-tempered grade three footy match.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 02:28 AM

But in the end we had a rare meeting of minds and civility.
Teribus had been free with insults too.

If you post as a guest, someone could post as you without you noticing, though not Teribus I think.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 03:19 AM

Tell us about these football matches in New Zealand then. They sound like fun.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 03:41 AM

Would all decent Englishmen please leave this thread at the earliest opportunity, and leave the treacherous pro IRA terrorists to stew in their own bile. I thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,Ralph
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 04:16 AM

Ooh-Aah2 Why did you say it then ? Oh a primary school teacher ! Bet that job pleases you. You seem the type !

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 04:29 AM

Guest Ralph,
You told us that Teribus said it, in a pm to you.

As a guest, how did you receive a pm?

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 06:45 AM

Still thinking about that one Ralph?
Perhaps I can help.

I expect you know about pm's because you are a member under another name.
Your pathetic attempt to smear teribus marks you out as a liar and a moron.
Your attempt to sustain the lie by attacking Ooh Ahh, who was not involved in any of this, marks you out as scum of the lowest order.

Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Tam the man
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 07:18 AM

Talk about peace

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 08:18 AM

Come on Tam.
We actually had agreement between the two sides,

but no thanks to the likes of Guest Ralph.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Tam the man
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 08:39 AM

anyway what has all this got to do with the McCartney sisters?

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 08:40 AM

Accuracy in songs has never been a particularly important requirement. Is there going to be someone going to start going round revising all our songs to make them "accurate"? (McGrath)

This is a good topic for an extra thread (I might even start it). BTW, I have never seen yet complaints about accuracy of songs in Mudcat except in threads about Northern Ireland. This time the complaint did come from an anti-Republican. I remember that a similar complaint once came from the other side.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 08:52 AM

'Twas on Good Friday morning, all in the month of May ...

Near enough, it's only folk after all.