Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:56 AM Don't get me started on Gracie Fields. I'll never stop. I bet weelittledrummer has all her records. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: The Sandman Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:10 AM Blind Blake was an excellent guitarist,George FORMBY Ukelele playing seems of a high standard , but personally given achoice I would go for Blake who had a sporty jazzy style and was held in great respect by other blues musicians. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:25 AM With all due respect, Captain, I think the idea of making a choice between Blind Blake and George Formby is ludicrous. They are like chalk and cheese and trying to compare them is frankly daft, IMO. Both were excellent in their own field, but there is scarcely any point of commonality between their styles. Some like both (I do!); others like one but hate the other; others may hate both; while yet others have probably never heard them, or even of them. Why do people have to keep trying to say whether one person, artist, singer, musician, band, song, tune, etc. is "better" than another? There's room for all - it's a big world of music - just enjoy it! :-) I'll get me coat and prepare to walk the plank... |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Oct 06 - 12:31 PM No he wasn't a class warrior in the Marxist sense. He was a primitive artist in the Grandma Moses sense. He was despised for his stupidity by his more middle class fellow performers at the time. If you had trod the boards, Penguin old chap - you would also learn a grudging respect for the artists whose songs enable you to earn a living and put food on the table. As you performed these songs, you would learn something of the love they inspire in your audience - a certain look that illuminates the eyes of your audience. It can't be faked. In some folk clubs - Christy Moore songs have that effect. In every single residential home for the elderly - the sheer mention George Formby's name has that effect. On the technique question. Throw a stick into a room of guitarists and you will hit half a dozen who can rattle off a fair impression of Blind Blake. George Formy was unique - despite dozens of devoted copyists, no one so far has ever got near that delicacy of touch and wild streak of inventivemness. having said that, I don't expect you to like him, Penguin - that requires the ability to look beyond the slavish fashions of the day. I do expect you to understand the sheer dimension of George Formby's achievement. From doing an unpaid gig in a tin hut in Newton le Willows to being the highest paid entertainer in England for close on two decades. Took some talent. Took some doing. And just because someone stands or stood up in public and tries to entertain you - it doesn't give the right to abuse him or her. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Compton Date: 24 Oct 06 - 02:10 PM Two things not mentioned...He was born in Wigan (lancashire) Beatle George Harrison was president of Gerge Formby Appreciation Society (sorry, three things) his problem was he did like women!!(too much) his wife Beryl gave him a bad time...and did'nt he leave all his money to a nurse (who was a bit on the side)? |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Duke Date: 24 Oct 06 - 02:38 PM When I asked for some information on the man, I had no idea of the fuss I would be causing. My word! Some of you do get excited. After all is said and done, I just simply love the man for his films and his music. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Leadfingers Date: 24 Oct 06 - 02:44 PM If any of you have ever played Uke , you will know that it is relatively easy to learn - EXCEPT for the RIGHT hand - It was George Formby's right hand technique that made him stand out as a musician ! |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:23 PM Nobody is denying your right to an opinion, PE - You have every right to say that you don't like George Formby. What you did say however was that you thought he was rubbish. The implication being that anyone who disagrees with you must therefore like rubbish. As I said, I don't the blues, amongst other things, but I would never dream of saying that they were rubbish. I value other peoples tastes and opinions far more that to believe my tastes are better than the 'rubbish' other people like. It is called common courtesy. As to Formby being a 'Northern Uncle Tom'. Well, I am a Lancashire Lad born and bred. I have never heard that opinion before and do not believe it exists outside the politcaly correct musings of the pseudo liberal press. He was an entertainer. No more, no less and in my opinion one of the best exponents of northern music hall comedy that there was. The fact that he moved that genre to film and gained world wide renown says far more about him than I ever could. And that fact that Blind Blake did not move his genre to the big screen is perhaps equaly significant? Cheers DtG |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Long Firm Freddie Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:11 PM Delightful to see that the Google ads are for window cleaning equipment and cleaning professionals at the moment! Here's a link to a review of a biography of George that some might find interesting, especially the bit about what his wife said to the architect of apartheid... George Turned out nice again! LFF |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Ian Burdon Date: 24 Oct 06 - 05:19 PM I've just read through this thread and now have running through my head George Formby singing Blind Blake's "That'll Never Happen No More"... Ian |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:22 PM Just to remind everyone. I never said Formby was rubbish. I said I thought he was rubbish. It is my thought. I thought, so therefore I think. It does not imply that I expect everyone to agree with me. In fact, I expect everyone to have their own thoughts. If not, close down Mudcat 'cause there is no longer any point in it. Back to the argument. I think it was Alexis Sayle (I think I have the spelling right - if not, you just know someone is going to correct me) who said that the reason Music Hall died was because it was crap. A bit unfair, I thought, but it was his opinion. Incidentally, there are lots of things I think are rubbish. Heavy metal, prog rock, opera, soft folk rock, easy listening folk.... the list is endless. Is this a problem? I never thought that I would have to defend the man who gave us Diddie Wa Diddie, Too Tight Blues #2, and Police Dog Blues against fans of George bleeding Formby in the Mudcat forum. Blind Blake, forgive them for they know not what they do. Amen. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:03 PM too weird.... |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:45 AM All this "George Formby vs Blnd Blake" stuff irresistably makes me imagine an alternative version of George's film "Keep Fit" in which he plays a coward who ends up a boxer; only this time with Blind Blake in the opposite corner, swinging his guitar around in the air while George dodges out of the way... Sorry, I always had a weird imagination :-) |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 25 Oct 06 - 05:57 AM I am intrigued. I have order a copy of a CD of George Formby. It was fairly cheap, so I don't mind. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Oct 06 - 06:19 AM If its any help, for those people who find a left-field thought a bit challenging - and need authentication. Actually Danny Thompson, Ralph McTell's bassist pointed out the similarity between the two artists songs on late night tv one time. I'm not even sure it was an original thought from my point of view. But anyway, Danny agrees with me. Why Blind Blake should be regarded as being under attack because he used the same chord sequence as George Formby escapes me. He also breathed in and out, and used oxygen in a similar sort of way. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 25 Oct 06 - 06:42 AM I wouldn't say Blind Blake was being attacked for using the same chord sequence as George Formby - rather, I think we should celebrate finding such an unlikely connection between these two very different artists, who at first sight (sorry BB) would not appear to have a lot in common musically. If that's not breaking down barriers I don't know what is! Why, even Penguin Egg is buying a George Formby CD now - good on yer, PE! Please let us know what you think when you've listened to it - I for one would be interested. And I hope you will be able to raise a smile while listening, in spite of yourself! |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Leadfingers Date: 25 Oct 06 - 07:10 AM One thing I have NEVER understood is how ANY thing you do not enjoy has , as a direct consequence got to be Rubbish ! I dont LIKE any very loud music , but that does not make all loud music rubbish ! For God's sake , WHY do people have to be so antagonistic to each other in here ? Incidentally ,I like both George Formby , and BOTH of the Blind Blakes I have heard on record ! |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 25 Oct 06 - 07:15 AM Define rubbish? Rubbish is a subjective word and it was in that spirit that I said it. Really, it is not that difficult to understand. If I was in a music hall forum or an old folks' forum, I would use my words more carefully. However, in a folk forum, I thought I was safe. How wrong could I be. When I said that I thought he was rubbish, I was giving my initial impressions of what I thought as a 15 year old boy. Music is never objective. We should air our subjectivity loud and clear. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 25 Oct 06 - 07:42 AM I may not agree with PE's original assessment of GF, but I defend his right to say it. Perhaps his use of the word "rubbish" was the real problem. It's OK to say you don't like something, as that's just a subjective opinion that others can take or leave. But to use the word "rubbish" offends those who like whatever is is thus described, as it implies their taste is in some way lacking, or that you think your own taste is superior to theirs. Naturally this gets their backs up. For example, PE says above that he thinks opera is rubbish. OK, I understand you simply mean that you don't like it, PE, but to apply the word rubbish to opera is an insult to opera lovers, even though you might not have meant it that way. As I've grown older my tastes in music have grown wider and now include genres I hated as a youngster (opera being one of them). There are still some types of music I don't particularly like, or know little about, mainly the stuff my son used to listen to (club type music, rave, hip hop or whatever it was - I've no idea what it was called). I may not like it, but I don't consider it rubbish, I just don't know a lot about it and it doesn't immediately appeal to my tastes. But I'm prepared to believe that if I took the trouble to learn more about it I might possibly be able to appreciate it. Right now I can't really imagine that, but I once probably thought the same about opera. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 25 Oct 06 - 08:31 AM Point taken, Scrump. I suppose the word is a bit inflammatory. In future, I shall choose my words more carefully. Of course, I meant no disrespect to anyone. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 25 Oct 06 - 08:42 AM No problem as far as I'm concerned, PE - I'm glad we were able to avoid the usual descent into a slanging match, as often seems to happen on some of these threads! Be sure and let us know what you think of the GF CD too :-) |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Oct 06 - 08:55 AM You are in an old folks forum! I'll have a biscuit with me cocoa before Countdown comes on...... |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 25 Oct 06 - 09:08 AM I often wonder what the demographics of Mudcat is? I expect we have more pensioners than college students in here. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 25 Oct 06 - 09:26 AM That should have been :I often wonder what the demographics of Mudcat are? (not is) I expect we have more pensioners than college students in here. 'scuse the poor grammar. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 25 Oct 06 - 09:46 AM Two musical icons of Lancashire George Formby and Gracie Fields. Georges songs were still enjoyed in a few pubs I used to drink in, in Rochdale way after 1960. (I aint a pensioner yet) |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 25 Oct 06 - 09:49 AM Wasn't Lisa Stansfield from there, or has she become forgotten? |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 25 Oct 06 - 10:16 AM Yes, she did, and I always assumed she was related to Gracie (whose real surname was Stansfield), until I read somewhere she was 'no relation'. Seems difficult to believe, as they're from the same town, unless Stansfield is a common name there? Unless Lisa was trying to distance herself from Gracie for reasons of 'street-cred' or something? Gracie is also sneered at by many, in a similar way to those who scoff at George, but she was another formidable talent and was recognised as such by millions of people in her staggeringly long and successful career. I guess I would consider some of her output (the Lancashire accent/dialect and comic stuff) vaguely in the 'folk' arena, but some definitely wasn't. My theory is that the two GFs became passe because people wanted to forget the hard times of the 1920s and 30s in later decades, especially from the 1960s onwards, and these two artists were a reminder of those times. Just my theory, which is mine. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 25 Oct 06 - 10:16 AM Aye, but she was born in Heywood near Rochdale, but we claim her as ours ;-) |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 25 Oct 06 - 10:24 AM Ah thowt she were born over that chip shop in Molesworth Street?... Ah, yer mean Lisa. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 25 Oct 06 - 10:32 AM I remember when I went to the Isle of Capri in 1975 with my parents and we went on a coach trip around the Isle. One of the stops was on a hill where you could get off to look down a hill and see Gracie Fields' house. Bloody intrusive of us, if you ask me, but there you go - bloody tourists. According to my Mum, Gracie lived there with her toyboy. I bet the people of Capri didn't have a clue as to who she was. I understood that by the time Formby had died, he was quite poor. Is that true? |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 25 Oct 06 - 10:36 AM 1977 punk rock exploded destroying all hippy toss in its shock wave.. i was 18 errr.. and buying George Formby.. Jesie Mathews.. and Al Bowlly LPs and enjoying them just as much as the Clash and the Damned.. et al .. and at that age i'd have probably very happily composed an essay comparing, contrasting, and theorising socio-economic/ideological links between 1930's UK mass pop culture and late 70's songs of youth rebellion and dissent.. ..must have been doing way too much cider and mushrooms back then..!!!??? |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Oct 06 - 10:41 AM I was always pleased when she got the scarf out, that meant she was about to sing Jerusalem and bugger off. However there is no denying the affection she inspired and continues to inspire amongst old folks, who all know every single word of Sally. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 25 Oct 06 - 12:08 PM I've never been to Capri (although I've been in a Capri a few times), but I was told she was always friendly to people who dropped in uninvited at her house there - she was apparently very down to earth in spite of her fame. Unlike many other stars past and present. I preferred stuff like 'Fred Fannakapan' to 'Sally'. Ee, in't it grand - them was the days! |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Oct 06 - 01:42 PM Actually without Gracie Fields singing Sing as we Go, there would be no Monty Python singing Sit on My Face.... Now that's what I call tradition - music referring back to its roots, and when more than few old farts know what you're talking about. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 30 Oct 06 - 05:34 AM You know, my George Formby CD came on Saturday morning and I thoroughly enjoyed it. (Humble pie, anyone?) I love his goofy charm and the songs are funny and a delight. Songwriters in those days knew how to make words rhyme. They could teach modern songwriters a thing or two. I also liked his ukelele (or is it banjo?)playing. However, I wonder if I will keep going back to Formby in the same way that I keep going back to Blind Blake? Blake has a depth that draws me into his music, makes me "want to lean forward," to quote Bob Dylan. Formby is funnier, though. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 30 Oct 06 - 07:22 AM I'm delighted to hear you say you enjoyed the CD, Penguin Egg. It's nice to hear someone being honest and own up that they got something wrong - it takes a certain amount of guts to do that (pity our politicians here in the UK don't do it a bit more often). No need for humble pie, all is forgiven as far as I'm concerned! George played a ukulele banjo (or banjo ukulele or banjulele), i.e. a uke made like a small banjo as opposed the 'guitar'-shaped uke. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 Oct 06 - 11:57 AM There are things to admire and respect about George Formby. But there's plenty of people who were as impervious to his charms as you were initially. Morecambe (or Wise, I forget which) said he had a way with a song, but he was as funny as a drowning man otherwise. My Dad used to cut George's hair, when he worked at Myett's hairdesser (opposite the music hall in St Helens) before the war. Apparently he was a big tipper for those days - used to give the hairdesser a shilling. I think that's why your remarks cut so deep! Apologies for my gracelessness and lack of tact. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:08 AM Nothing to apologise for, weelittledrummer. It's a pity they don't show at least one of his old films on tv again to see if I find it funny. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Scrump Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:49 AM The best things about the films now, is that you get a chance to see him perform the songs and observe his uke playing. Apart from that, I don't think most of them stand up all that well in terms of the plot, but of course they are interesting for their period 'charm', like all old films. But they were incredibly low budget, even for those days - the early ones were filmed above a garage, and they had to ask the owners to keep quiet while filming scenes, to prevent the sound being drowned out by car engines. No Limit is probably one of the most popular because of the Isle of Man TT Races scenes, and other ones that spring to mid are Spare A Copper and Trouble Brewing. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Penguin Egg Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:26 AM The one thing I remember from his films (apart from his big goofy smile) is the leading ladies. Even though they played working class girls, they all had accents like the Queen!!! Going back to Morcambe and Wise, my Mum never liked them. She must have been the only person in the country in the 70s who thought that. Mind you, the humour of Spike Milligan totally escaped me. Humour is totally subjective. You either laugh or you don't. Now the songs of George Formby make me laugh. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Compton Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:42 AM It's a terrible thing ...but I've heard oif George Formby...and such is my education, never heard of Blind Blake, and I guess 95% of the Great British public haven't either!! |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Leadfingers Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:53 AM Ah , BUT -- WHICH Blind Blake !! |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: BuckMulligan Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:30 AM What makes anyone think music hall isn't a folk tradition? More "folk" sing and have sung music hall songs than have burbled through any Child ballad. I bet. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:48 PM Here he is with one of his less well known songs -n "She's got two of everything" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSc-e-QffTs. And there are lots more clips of him on YouTube, where this comes from. I think I'd be a bit suspicious of anyone who said they didn't like George Formby. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Dave Roberts Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:24 PM So would I. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: M.Ted Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:40 PM I am in agreement with Buck Mulligan's thought--Music Hall is a tradition--and music hall tunes, in one form or another, form a big bit of the "Traditional" repertoire--as to Gracie, well, I've been listening to a lot of her stuff lately, on headsets, as her voice puts my wife off--her songs were and are very funny, and she had great comic delivery, but her stage personality was what put her over--and it still comes through--Heaven will protected an honest girl-- |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: Claire M Date: 19 Aug 12 - 03:32 PM Hiya, I like him, in the same way I like John Otway; good for when you need cheering up, but wouldn't go out of my way to listen to either (although JO did a good blues song As for blues, I luv it. It's my favourite kind of music. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Guest Date: 19 Aug 12 - 05:37 PM He also taught Dylan something Subterranean homesick blues |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Guest Date: 19 Aug 12 - 05:41 PM If the link doesn't work just google George Formby subterranean homesick blues for a surprise. |
Subject: RE: George Formby From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 20 Aug 12 - 01:50 PM George Formby left a considerable fortune to his fiancee, not his 'bit on the side'. He died a few days before they were due to be married. The Singing Postman can indeed be compared with GF in some ways, because both men sang in their local accent and accompanied themselves. 'Nicotine Gal' is in fact called 'Hev Yew Got a Loight Bwoy?' Both men often sang narrative songs, using a key phrase as a refrain. Each is extremely funny and cheerful. But Alan Smethurst had a more nostalgic feel to his songs, especially the later ones referring to his childhood in Norfolk (where I live). It isn't 'was the bottom dropped out?' It's 'Hev the Bottom Dropped out?' Each gives a delicious glimpse into typical life in their part of England, and as such are almost archive material. I have almost every song of both men, and play them over and over. But I'm old, and I don't know if they'd still appeal to the youngsters. |
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