BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 10:18 AM

Dan,
I really feel bad about this. Last summer, while Jacqui and I were yard saling, I bought a box of old watch parts for $17. Turns out some of it was silver and gold. I sold it piece meal on Ebay for more that $400. One buyer sent me an additional $20 - shocked at what he found in the lot I sent him.
Had I known you love old watches I would gladly have let you have your choice.
Next time.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 10:28 AM

Wow, it happens Mary ... I am sure the guy was thrilled. Lots of times people will yard sale an old pocket watch because it doesn't work. Most of the time the fix is a good cleaning and oil job .. sometimes it is a simple spring .. Serious problems get really expensive unless you can find an Amish guy like I know who is a master and very inexpensive.   But many of the cases were gold plated or solid gold or silver ..   I have seen just a watch case go for a thousand dollars but that was a very special case and was gold ... Parts are also a big bonus. It is so hard to find parts ... Many people don't work on New York Standard Watch Company movements because the company burned in the early 1900's I guess and all the records were destroyed. I have several that run fine but it they break ... zowie it will be expensive to fix .. I don't use them at all because I could never get the parts for them. Elgin, parts can be found anywhere as with most railroad grade watches ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:41 AM

There were about fifteen antique tins filled with parts, some in original envelopes and papers. Many 18K gold. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:45 AM

THANKS Dan!

How is the comedy troupe doing?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:51 AM

Here is what I have...

various

The one on the left was my grandfather's smallish Seth Thomas. He died in 1930. It still runs, but not very long and probably needs tinkering. The one at top is an Elgin...unknown date & origin, and does not run. Below it is an empty case which unscrews....and on the right is something I never understood. It is just a glass 'form' in the shape of a watch. Anyone know what this is called?

Here is a closer view of the Seth Thomas (in original box). It has the nice design on the case, and his initials in the inside back.

Any general opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 01:14 PM

My old Elgin runs as long as it is lying flat but if I put it in my pocket is stops. Cleaning?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 01:33 PM

Ahhh
simple cleaning .. nothing more kendall ... is their a Jeweler near you ..?   Had my jeweler clean my Hampton .. cost me 10 bucks
ran perfect

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 03:58 PM

I'll cast about for a jeweler.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 03:59 PM

A great grandfather's watch (1881) has a case with small ears(?)- don't know what they would be called- so that the front opens easily to get at the lever for setting, and the back also, plus inner cover over the movement that requires a thumbnail to open. It is coin silver. A heavy case.
I have a 992b, trim and light compared to some old ones, but I also like a Crescent Street in hunter case, or my Waltham Canadian Pacific (so labeled, with a beaver on the movement) in swing case. All are very accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 04:13 PM

I will take care of it captain, no problem I should have done that in the first place ... ya got my address

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 04:15 PM

Q got a picture, I am trying to place what that would be. Sounds cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 09:39 PM

That old one with ears on the case is off for service. 1988 was the last time it was cleaned and iled.
I wish I had scanned it- but now that you mentioned 'picture', I think I will scan my watches for a record.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 09:57 PM

That eared case is labeled Blauer Coin, a small outline star with a 4 inside of it, and a serial number.
And I found a picture, poor, of a case offered on Ebay.
350313327653.
Take a look before the offering is pulled; Offered at $110.49. Scroll way down, there is another picture.

Not as nice as the case on mine, but shows what the ears look like.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 10:56 PM

Did anyone read my post above? I was hoping for some direction in learning about those items.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 10:58 PM

Q
saw the one on ebay, what a beauty you have ... very cool ... I don't think I ever saw a case like that ... pretty unique and special I think

neat watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 11:11 PM

Bill D, put Seth Thomas watches in google, and some information comes up, including a link that gets a list of serial nos. and the dates (1885-1914). Not a common watch. Only seen one or two.

The "glass thing" looks like a watch but I have no idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 08:39 AM

Seth Thomas watches were superb. They were also expensive in their time. I too have only seen one or two of them. They were most noted for their desk clocks and such and I have seen many Seth Thomas wall clocks but not their pocket watch line. Most I think are pretty rare since Q and I have only seen a couple. Sure check it out ... you should be able to find out when it was made

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 10:33 AM

Utah took an old watch case and put one of those cheap digital timepieces that had some sticky stuff on the back in the case(the kind you could leave up on a wall). He also had a pocket watch with Disney's ubiquitous rodent on the watch face,

Clearly thinking the same waow where can I find an old watch case...

They still used to sell cheap pocket watches when I was a kid. Ingersoll I seem to remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 01:01 PM

Old "dollar" watches show up at flea markets.
I only have one, which has 'Alberta' as the maker's name on the face. I bought it because currently I live in the province of Alberta (watch made in States, I have forgotten where). It doesn't run.
If you can buy cheap and re-use the case as you suggest, all to the good because, unless they are from the very start of a line like Ingersoll, or are something like an early Micky Mouse, they are not worth repairing and there is no collector interest.

Old cases are often worth quite a bit since they are hard to find in good condition. Since many watch movements were sold separate from the case, any watchmaker can transfer old watch movements to a different case- in other words, one could transfer from a nickel-silver to a gold case when one saved up the money.
Railroad men often preferred a heavy nickel silver case to a gold case because it stood up to wear better.

Used to have a book listing values of watches, but long out-of-date. Only a guide, many variables affect the value. I am ignorant on Seth Thomas, except that, like olddude, I know that they had a good reputation. If there is a watch club near you, someone there may have the book, or know something about Seth Thomas.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 05:39 PM

Proper professional repair of a watch, c. 1870s, one I am considering getting restored.

Problems-
Balance mechanism. Lower balance pivot is bent and mis-shaped. The pivot was reduced in size at some time. New balance staff required to fit the jeweled holes correctly.
Roller jewel of the watch replaced with a crudely filed brass pin. Should be replaced with the correct ruby impulse jewel.
Needs clean, oil and adjust.
Repair estimate:
Clean, oil, adjust-   $325.00
Mainspring service-    60.00
Replace balance staff- 100.00
Install roller jewel-   75.00
Shipping, insurance-    20.00
Total-                      $580.00

This will not be uncommon for an old watch that has been serviced several times by repairmen lacking proper equipment and parts. Also owners usually want the watch repaired quickly, they will not wait for the repairman to get proper parts.

The watch would run with the jerry-built repairs, but not smoothly and accurately. If one wishes proper restoration, expect to pay for it.
A full clean, oil and adjust requires complete dis-assembly of the watch. The $325 cost is usual.
A repair-wait time may be several months if a known restorer is selected.

These costs should be considered when buying a watch from an unknown seller. The watch may run but not correctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 06:30 PM

Q
your estimate is absolutely correct. However, I have a friend who is a Jeweler and charges me almost nothing for clean and oil. And he is a collector himself and knows what he is doing.   an estimate on one of my 1880 watches came in a 450 dollars from the web.. the master Amish guy who is local rebuilt the entire thing ... total cost to me 80 dollars ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 06:44 PM

Q
next time ya need an expensive rebuild check with me my friend first. now he ain't quick .. figure you will be without it 2 months or so .. but he is good and normally like I said around 80 to 100 dollars US

For the Amish, these things are their watches .. they don't use anything else and they keep them running and have parts saved .. You also cannot ever outbid one of them in an auction .. they always nail them and for good reason .. they use them. They never bid on elaborate ones but the old standard workhorses ... Oh boy .. whatever it takes

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 10:02 PM

I have a couple (or three) more. Will he redo old ladies watches, c. 1900-1910?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Jul 10 - 10:28 AM

Q
I will ask, gotta take an old Elgin to him for a friend .. while I am there I will ask him. Do you have any Amish near you?   If so you may want to ask around. Those folks are very serious about their watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 10 - 01:22 PM

The Hutterites are the predominant Anabaptist group here. We have friends that are members of one of the colonies. They have the best in farm machinery, computer-controlled animal houses, homes with the latest in heating (underfloor circulating fluid), and the latest trucks and 'taxi' service to the City for medical services, etc.

They are good mechanics and wood-workers, make their own clothes, have a communal kitchen and mess hall and refuse television, movies and all that stuff (they sneak off to non-Hutterite farms to partake of these sins).

Don't give a damn about watches, however. Timex is the usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 02:10 PM

Digression, but might be of interest.
The Smithsonian Magazine carries advs. for a company called Stauer, which sells cheap watches and jewelry.
On impulse I bought an automatic wristwatch, with 27 jewels, an automatic, for $99.00.
The watch has date, day and month dials, and a back window to expose the automatic winder.
It is made in China.
It seems to work well; very atractive but a little thick and clunky, seems to be good value for the money.

Knowing Chinese industry, I think it won't be long before their jeweled watches come down a bit more in price and displace Timex, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 09:24 PM

Q
heck a cheap automatic would be perfect for me. I drain batteries like a short in an old car ... I just put a new battery in my Remington watch just for a test. Been wearing it for 4 days now ... dollars to donuts it will be dead in a month ... gotta do an experiment again one more time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 09:29 PM

I was looking at my 1888 columbia gold pocket watch today - New York standard watch company ... and ... "I dropped it"   nothing happen .. but that was an OH CRAP moment. You cannot find parts for those guys anywhere ... zowie that would be expensive ... it is back in the case again ... givin it to my grand kid ... My daughter Katie will take better care of it then me until he is old enough to appreciate what it is .. Lever set, solid gold hunter case ... it is a beauty and keeps really good time. New York Standards were not known for their quality even when they were new .. fortunate to have one of their better ones

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 10:17 PM

I see that Oris has the Hamilton name, some automatic and some quartz, about $500 to $1000 on their website.
A far cry from the 992b.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 12:23 PM

Nothing today, even with the modern technology would match a mechanical watch like the 992B ...

Big reason is the craftsmanship and the years of experience one needed to even work on that watch ...Hamilton only hired master watchmakers. That watch was military issue. I am sure when it came to d-day the generals, on down were using that watch to coordinate their attacks

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 01:26 PM

I have a 17j Hamilton pocket watch, WW2 Navy. There also was a 21 jewel, very desirable to collectors of Navy memorabilia, hence expensive if one can find it. Never seen it. I don't know the movement(s), I'll have to look inside mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 03:32 PM

I don't know why I'm drawn to old things; past life? nostalgia? Old cars, mature women, 16 year old Glen Fiddich.
I'm very tactile and I love the feel of old pocket watches; they have a certain panache' that no Rolex can match.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 05:58 PM

Captain yours is now in fine hands, Rick got it and will fix the old girl like new.

Q
My uncle was a WWII fighter pilot, Distinguished flying cross .. Ace
he only carried the 992B in his missions. He said it was the only watch that you literally could bet your life on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 06:32 PM

Prince Daniel. Has a

ring to it, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 06:37 PM

Your old girl was right on the money for 2 days. First words out of Ricks mouth was "who the hell put that crystal on that watch, it is wrong"   He ordered the right one and I told him polish her up ..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 08:40 PM

Q
I saw one of the 21 jeweled ones in great shape go for 800 bucks . They were incredible

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 08:43 PM

My 1883 Hampton RR is so dead nuts accurate I cannot believe it. You may not believe me but I set the thing to a modern battery wrist watch and it matches it minute for minute ... I been winding it twice a day wake up in the morning and check it ... spot on ... when I carry it .. spot on ... what anything that is made today would work so well for so many years ...
my goodness they built things in the past

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 10 - 08:49 PM

sorry it is hampden
can't type

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jul 10 - 12:38 AM

Value will always be measured in pleasure, not money.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jul 10 - 04:05 AM

I like the Elgin because it fits into modern watch pockets whereas the old fat RR watch couldn't

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 09:32 PM

AAAGH ... I was so close on the bid for the 992-B on ebay. 1 buck I lost it for 1 buck !!... It was a railroad special also .. crap .. the price was one that I could afford also .. not one of the 500 dollar deals you see all the time .. It closed at 207 .. man what a deal for someone .. should have went higher but who knows what the other guy actually bid .. could be I would have still lost

I went to an auction Saturday, I got a mint I mean mint 1913 Elgin rolled gold case beautiful scroll work .. just serviced .. perfect .. perfect time ..

78 bucks and worth every cent ..

going to put it away for my grandson .. That was very cool

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM

olddude, if you are sure of the condition of the $500 watch, just remember that a $200 one on Ebay is likely to cost you another $300 to service.

But take a look at 230516921786. Canadian 24 hr dial(not military).
Essentially like mine, but case of mine is Fortune gold-filled, made in Canada. I can't tell where the case on this offer was made.
At one time, however, there were several companies in Canada making cases, some of which were used in the States.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 04:19 PM

Looks like about $250 is the take charge bid for 992b on the offers that don't have a high price posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 05:20 PM

Thats a dandy Q, I am going to try and snipe it... the one for 500 I seriously looked at it ... after I wound it I had to shake it to get it started ... tells me something is going on it ... I walked away

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 05:29 PM

Q
I will post ya a picture of this 1913 Elgin, Absolutely beautiful and there is a certificate of service 4 months ago. Case is rolled gold high scroll work. Mint condition watch . Keeping perfect time .. made one heck of a deal on it. They brought it out at the end of the auction and there was only a couple of people left. I was very fortunate .. didn't understand why they did that unless they just found it in the estate and dragged it out. Either way, glad I nailed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 05:54 PM

Right, if you had to shake it, the least it needs is cleaning, but could be something serious.
Yes, I would like to see the Elgin.
I have two Elgins, my great-grandfather's which I mentioned before, and is off for repair, and one in a gold-filled Hunter case (marked Rambler), 16 size, 1894 date, lever set, model 3, but only 11 jewels. Runs well. My mother got it from a neighbor, years ago.
Just dug it out and wound it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 06:44 PM

I love the Elgins .. those old Elgin railroad watches were something special also

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 08:55 PM

Should have added that the 1894 Elgin hunter is a sidewinder. Never really thought about that before.
Wouldn't mind having one of those old 21j Raymonds, but my wife says no.

What model is the Elgin you picked up?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 09:13 PM

It is a GRADE 386, 17 JEWELS, SER # 17,542,380 , CIRCA 1913. MODEL 6

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 09:34 PM

Nice one!