BS: Troll spotting

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: kendall
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:18 PM

Just for the record, Joe is not the only one who finds personal attacks loathsome.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: number 6
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:22 PM

Good to see ya back Peace!!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:26 PM

Yo Kendall... I hear ya and I am sure MANY other 'Cats do. Too bad some young 'Cats just don't hear, eh? But, maybe they are just unwise beyond their youth.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: kendall
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:29 PM

Old Maine proverb "Men mature after they have exhausted all other options".

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Beer
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:33 PM

To both of you
Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: GUEST,Maggie the Mouse
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:34 PM

Olde Canucke proverbe -

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Be VERY careful of people who make you feel sorry for them.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:42 PM

0.7742 - Thread - Message - RE: BS: Internet Lotharios... A Cautionary Tale - Sep 21 2004 10:19AM -   NonMember

    Summary: My particular cautionary tale is not so much about an internet lothario as an internet bum. Online and offline I have met wonderful, loving people. Beware of "friendly" online scroungers !

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Once Famous
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:38 PM

Joe how about Amos when he is a bad boy? Or wesleyS?

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 12:10 AM

Well, I'd tan their hides, but they have spanking fetishes...

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Amos
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 12:49 AM

Tell ya what, Joe. If I'm a bad boy, you can tell me so.

I don't think slimeballs are in a position to know it when it happens, given that they are immersed professionally.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: *daylia*
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 08:18 AM

Could it be that drawing attention to trolling -- in fact, spending any energy or bandwidth on it whatsoever -- is what caused this thread to degenerate so quickly into such a dismaying battle?

I pondered this for quite a while yesterday. One of the best ways to create or manifest or even just attract something (or someone) is to think about it constantly, discuss it endlessly, expect it loudly, hate it fervently and, in general, spend as much energy (especially negative energy) on it as possible. ANd this morning, I found this article: Anti-Trolling Weaponry --- death pinging and rebuking trolls

"Once more, 5 easy rules:

(1) Don't read posts from or about trolls;

(2) Don't read email from or about trolls;

(3) If you can't resist reading, don't respond;

(4) If you can't resist responding, do so by email, not by posting on a public forum;

(5) If you are compelled to post a response, if you just can't stop yourself, at least do the rest of the readers the favor of adding the troll's nick to the subject line, so they can avoid reading that post."

Interesting ...

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 08:16 PM

(4)"If you can't resist responding, do so by email, not by posting on a public forum;

"(5) If you are compelled to post a response, if you just can't stop yourself, at least do the rest of the readers the favor of adding the troll's nick to the subject line, so they can avoid reading that post."

4) We, of course, cannot respond by email or even by PMs when it is a Guest.

5) A "troll's nick"? Whazzat?

I would add that it isn't always easy to identify a troll, especially early on.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 08:33 PM

Just a few homilies from the Les Barker school of philosophy:-

"Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them".

"Your purpose in life is to serve as an example to others".

"NEVER ARGUE WITH A FOOL, FOR HE IS DOING THE SAME".

Just about covers the whole troll situation, huh?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting: RE Ebbie 8:16 pm
From: *daylia*
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 08:49 PM

A "troll's nick"? Whazzat?

I think it means using the subject line to warn readers (see above). And yes, it's unfortunate that GUESTS can't use the PM feature here.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:09 PM

Is it an option some boards where you can set a person's posts as invisible to you?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:13 PM

Or another option some boards have to auto-report a troubling post to a moderator?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: *daylia*
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:24 PM

Is it an option some boards where you can set a person's posts as invisible to you?

Yes -- see the discussion forums at About.com

Or another option some boards have to auto-report a troubling post to a moderator?

Dunno about an "auto-report", but a few forums have an "applaud" or "smite" feature so you can express your feelings about a post anonymously ...

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Alba
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:28 PM

ROFL, sorry Susan not at your post.
Just at the thought of Guests having a PM option..
Pming a Guest.
Hi Anon...I don't know who your are or what your intentions here are but...I think it was you, perhaps, that posted at 11.21 am today. However if you are Guest 2.13pm please disregard this PM.

Maybe a Guest photo section with blank pics and a section for the Guest getaway and a Guest only Locator//profile/event section.
Dang why bother joining the Mudcat, feck it just be a Guest...LOL



Deep breath.
Sorry
Jude (lolololololololol)

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: *daylia*
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:36 PM

hee hee hee   hey   maybe a "GUEST PM Permathread" would do the trick?

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: ragdall
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 11:14 PM

From: WYSIWYG - Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:09 PM
Is it an option some boards where you can set a person's posts as invisible to you?

Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:13 PM
Or another option some boards have to auto-report a troubling post to a moderator?

Are you are suggesting using, or emulating, a different message board program?

The Invision Power Boards have both those features (and many more). They'll even host the site on their servers for $120/ year, and up.

My experience has been that most message board users have far too much curiosity to use the "ignore" feature. Some may say that they have put someone "on ignore", but, as they continue to complain about that person's words, it appears that they do peek to see what is happening.

The reporting process simply sends a PM to designated staff members who will then receive an email alert, asking them to read the "offensive" post and make a decision about taking action, or not. As readers of the Mudcat board can email, or PM, designated staff members directly, an auto-report feature would seem to be redundant?

First link fixed - joe clone -

rags

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 11:38 PM

This LINK might work better, for Invision. I couldn't get yours to work, ragdall.:-) Intersting stuff. Thanks for telling us about it.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 12:56 AM

Once again, I am a Guest only because Mudcat's computer thinks I am one. When I try to re-up I'm told I "am already a member with 50 or so P.M.s waiting for me to read them. When I try to access the P.M.s, I'm told I am not a member. When I believe it when I'm told I'm a member, and try to make a post to a thread, I am called a Guest!

It's Catch 22 all over again, and then again, and then again. I've followed all the rules--but will not change my e-mail address and join again. (I like my e-mail address fine as it is.)

If you ban all Guest posters, I'll be gone. And lately I'm thinking that's no great loss.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 04:41 AM

Wrong Art, Completely wrong.

I'm sure that many here would agree with me that a members only policy which meant the loss of your valuable contributions would be the worst possible bad bargain for us.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 05:32 AM

Well Art your glitch must be fixable, and of itself it is not a valid reason to not consider a members only site which included you.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 06:27 AM

Your not being here would be a HUGE loss to the Mudcat, Art. You ARE the Mudcat, in so many ways.

You wouldn't have to change your email addy; just get a *spare* one at yahoo, for free, to use only for Mudcat membership purposes. BUT, I still think there should be a way for Jeff/Max/Joe to fix this.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:17 AM

ragdall, no-- I was just responding to another poster's effort to nail down what an earlier poster menat by "troll's nick."

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Alba
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:30 AM

Mudcat - Art Thieme = :>(

Love
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:43 AM

Nickname isn't it?
G

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 06:24 PM

That starfish looks inflamed. I'd see a proctologist if I were you, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 06:53 PM

What are we going to do about the trolls who a already members?

I bet there are very few of us who have not posted a message just to get a reaction from someone.

When you get a large group of people giving their opinions,there's bound to be friction.

Leave things exactly as they are, all the whining about guests is pathetic...we are all anonymous even if we are daft enough to use our real names.
I for one don't want to be in a community of closed minds, some cosy little club of "like minded people"

Some of the most thought provoking posts that I have read came from guests...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Alba
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:41 PM

???!

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:02 PM

Jeez Joe, you were a bit harsh toward Peace.
He is the only one who bothers to pass on any warm fuzzies and sincere encouragment for my endeavors. Maybe he knows better than you what is good for the soul.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:16 PM

There are reasons, very good reasons, why some folks don't join.

For those who do join, not all are musicians and of those not all are folk musicians.

It is not JUST about 'trolls' - easily ignored by a musician BTW - but other things as well.

But for the good threads and topics the other stuff is a small price to pay

:0)

Again say I, leave the Muddie be as it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:32 PM

Hmmm..the title of this thread makes me think of I SPY. Anyone ever remember playing that game?

I spy something round and red that grows on a tree and is a fruit. No Brucie, it isn't a watermelon...although it could be...you never know...that's the beauty of the game!

So....troll spotting...hmmmm....

I spy something short and greenish with a white beard and a cross look on his face...looks like a little human being...oh wait....it's that guy that hangs up with the 3 Billy Goats gruff under the bridge.....

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:35 PM

By the time you've seen one, it's too late to do anything about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Alba
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:10 PM

To the Mudcat Elf

Thank you. I wasn't thinking things through too clearly???!

Sorry to drift from the topic Folks.


Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 05:29 AM

Mudcat is a strong and thriving forum, composed of two sections, which seems to satisfy the needs of the majority of users, whether members or guests.

The music section is arguably the best repository of folk music and culture in existence.

The BS section is a mixed bag of thought provoking discussion, and light hearted nonsense, with a certain amount of rather more unpleasant stuff that nobody here is forced to read.

True that some people engaging in posting to BS threads do wind up with hurt feelings, or bruised egos, and it's not nice to come out of a chat feeling battered.

I have been following the Guest thread, and most of the unpleasant comment seems to be coming from members. On many other threads, it comes from a few (not all) guests.

The first thing I look at is the content of the posts, not the identity, or lack thereof, of the poster.

It has ocurred to me that all the sarcastic, nasty guest posts could conceivably be the work of just one prolific troll, not likely I know, but possible. How could we know?

I would like to see many of the guests join up, but for different reasons. It would be nice to know that a series of incisive, erudite posts came from a particular persona.

I guess the bottom line is this, IMHO Mudcat is not perfect, but it ain't bad, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 05:58 AM

Our forum has never been broke (although there a a few technical giltches form time to time) but that has not prevented it from suffering from a number of 'fixes'.

It is those that we are currently suffering the effects of.....Our forum is a simple concept. We are invited by the site's owner to contribute what we will.

The worst fix has resulted in various fellow members - some of them anonymous who feel themselves qualified to impose their judgement upon the invited contributions of their fellow posters.

Now even this is now enough power for them to exert in order to shape our forum to their requirements. - so the intention is for them to profess to still like our forum but to press Max for yet more change and yet more fixes that will make it unrecognisable to the original simple concept. Whilst at the same time encouraging others posters to go away if they do not like what their current fix and indended change is.

But their intention for more imposed rules and more fixes won't stop at this point - despite the fact that each fix to complicate a simple concept only bring with yet more unforseen and unwelcome complications? But the concern of Joe Offer and Co appears to be not where the vehicle is going but only whose hand is on the wheel.

Not only don't fix it if it is not broke - but why not take the chance to unfix it so that the originally simple concept can survive all the well-intentioned attempts that have been made to fix it in the past. And those who don't like this simple founding concept can go away and create something of their own - rather feeling they have any right to keeping imposing their concepts upon the rest of our forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 06:28 AM

"But their intention for more imposed rules and more fixes won't stop at this point - despite the fact that each fix to complicate a simple concept only bring with yet more unforseen and unwelcome complications? But the concern of Joe Offer and Co appears to be not where the vehicle is going but only whose hand is on the wheel."

Surely the person who expresses the most concern about who's hand is on the Mudcat wheel is you Roger!
As for the 'let's all go back to square 1' idea, can I assume that you ride a Penny Farthing bicycle and cook your food over an open fire. Evolution is what life is all about, things that don't evolve usually die, with the notable exception of Trolls.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 07:14 AM

When political leaders are wanting a major change or making a proposal that is seen to be not generally supported by the rank and file - this often involves them facing a vote of confidence as their position is thought to be untenable without this.

Either way we have a split here in 'fairyland' as the majority seem to want to reject the change or proposal but still (for some strange reason) wish to support those who are intent on making the unpopular change and imposing it on them.

And at the same time they tell anyone else who may wish to change things - they are free to go away if they are not happy the way things are.

The logical solution would be for those who wish for the unpopular change to be invited to go elswhere where they find or start something that they were happy with. But logic does not rule here - in the land where the double standard is hoisted high.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 07:49 AM

You are once again talking in terms of democratic principles which are not applicable here as you are not dealing with a democracy.
Only one person can pull the plug on the Mudcat, and he does not need to take a vote or even achieve a consensus to do so, and that of course is Max Spiegel who owns this site.
I am surprised that he has resisted the urge to do this, and have heard him say "If they're not happy tell them I'll pull the plug tomorrow" so he has obviously thought about it.
It really does boil down to 'If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 07:54 AM

Many can't stand the heat.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:04 AM

I am surprised that he has resisted the urge to do this, and have heard him say "If they're not happy tell them I'll pull the plug tomorrow" so he has obviously thought about it.

Oh my God!

Does this mean that when Joe Offer expesses his dissatisfaction and unhapiness with the status quo and requests Max to make the changes he wants to impose on the rest of us - that there is a real chance that Max will pull the plug?

That means that you will never get the edit button that Joe has promised you......Or perhaps you already have it?

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:32 AM

Well that's very perspicacious of you Roger, but I'll leave you to decide for yourself whether your deduction is correct or not.
If I could delete posts , do you think I might be tempted to delete the duplicate post you just put on another thread?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 06:00 PM

Roger,

You are as entitled as any other member to express your opinions on this, or indeed on any, forum.

But, and it is a big but, on this according to you over censored forum you have been allowed by your "anonymous fellow posters" (i.e. Joe and the clones) to subvert many threads to your pet campaign.

True, there have been some alterations, but on many other sites all of your posts made on threads where they were not germane to the thread subject would have been immediately deleted.

This hardly supports your view of our moderators as interfering nannies trying to curtail your right to free speech.

Your missionary zeal in continuing to try to convert all members to your own POV is reminiscent of the attempts of the Catholic church to bring the whole of Africa and Asia into the fold.

With all their resources they failed dismally, so what makes you think you might succeed.

When you stop evangelising and concentrate on the actual thread subject your posts do have considerable merit.

This is not intended as a judgement of you, nor as an attack. It is just something that you might like to think about. Where else do you suppose you might have as much freedom as here on Mudcat?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: autolycus
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 07:29 PM

We have a variety of psychologies aboard,hence a lot of disagreement, and agreement, and confusion and clarity.

We're all adults, some of whom can stand the heat, some not.

What's a poor Joe to do.

Just a thought from an ignorant one, but couldn't Joe be trusted to spot trolls and redirect their efforts into troll threads, that only trolls get into? leaving the rest of us to get on with the info., entertainment, banter and the rest of what makes Mudcat so good?

I've found here tons of goodwill, tolerance,humour,positivity and erudition. From where I'm sitting, all those qualities keep overwhelming the tosh (when not just ignoring it). Bit like that old proverb,"The truth will out." I take hearty from what I've found here.


Ivor

P.S. Kendall, Didn't know that maturity quote was an old Maine proverb;source please? my source credited it to Abba Eban (Quotations with an Attitude, Roy L. Stuart)

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:20 PM

How do you spell political correctness?

MUDCAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: autolycus
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:42 AM

No - p-o-l-i-t-i-c-a-l c-o-r-r-e-c-t-n-e-s-s. Da -daaaaaaaaa, crash.

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:47 AM

How do you spell gratuitously offensive.


MARTIN GIBSON!

Subject: RE: BS: Troll spotting
From: Janie
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 10:02 AM

You know, I keep wanting to stick in a little facetious post here on Martin's agreement with Giok's assessment....

Janie