BS: Rugby World Cup

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 05:13 AM

Englan home and wet, too good for Australia, match over at half time, but not without and amazing spot by the panel on RTE, Martin Johnson communacating with Coach Woodward through a hidden mike in a Water Bottle, this happened during an injury stoppage, amazing but true, we will wait and see the outcome. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 05:58 AM

As I said, wrong again, still fancy England in extra time, SEE YOU. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Bassic
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 06:33 AM

Well done lads, awesome!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 06:35 AM

Gallant effort from the Aussies, but Johnny Wilko done it again, overall the wet conditions dictated, to the neutral it was a bore, the closeness of the scoring in the second half and in extra time kept it intersting.
Hello RTE, I will be tuning in for a long time. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 06:50 AM

Well, the better team won on the night, no doubt of that. We lost too many lineouts and were under pressure in the scrum all night.

Thought we were totally gone when England scored their try, so full marks to our blokes for struggling back. Now, if only Mat Rogers hadn't kicked for touch at the end, we could have denied England the ball ..... If wishes were horses ...

Full credit to Wilkinson, too - for a bloke with a reputation as just a miraculous kicker, he played a bloody good game of rugby.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 07:37 AM

Brilliant game. nailbiting. Maybe boring if you were a neutral, but stunningly exciting if you wanted someone to win!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 07:43 AM

I was rather looking forward to see how the would be like if they had to settle the game with drop goals. But it would have been cruel, this seemed a fair enough result.

It was good seeing how the two sets of supporters didn't have to be segregated from each other with heavy security. Keep the violence on the pitch, that's the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: cobber
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 08:10 AM

Australia's response in a word.
SHIT
This and other expletives are currently being expressed across the nation.
Great game though
Well done Poms

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 08:18 AM

I'll settle for boring glory - as the Australian team would have also settled for this. I agree that they did indeed look 'gone' when 'Billy Wizz' went over the line but full credit is due to them for coming back. It was nice to see people in the crowd dressed in green and gold - clapping when the cup was being awarded.

In truth it was a bit too close for comfort but nice to see that it was boring old Jonny Wilkinson that scored the deciding drop goal points. It was also nice to see him break into a smile at the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Big Tim
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 10:08 AM

I'm glad England won: it's about time the Aussies lost something. (Hope Bob Bolton doesn't see this!).

Did I hear the commentator correctly - sounded like he said "the judge, Dutchman Paddy O'Brien"!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: 8_Pints
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 10:25 AM

Dramatic & exciting game to watch!

For me both teams played with commitment and skill, given the conditions.

I can't make up up my mind about who was 'Man of the Match', but perhaps that is as it should be - it is a team sport after all!

Congratulations England (from a Welsh Dutchman)

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Trevor
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 02:06 PM

Phew!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:04 PM

Sorry, Bob Bolton, but such is life.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Hera
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 05:24 PM

...and what did you think of the "style" of the man hanging medals on the Oz necks - looked like he was throwing quoits - rather sloppy and disrespectful I thought - quite hysterical even! Did he have a wee disability or was he pissed?

Great final - not winning is always a good opportunity to practice humility and grace (Kiwis know this...& Oz attitudes towards Kiwis can be sooo tedious! ;-).

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 06:58 PM

No good saying sorry to Bob, Greg. I don't think he really cares. Now if you want to apologise to me



















it won't do the slightest bit of good.

:-)

p.s. Didn't Prime Minister John Howard look absolutely graceless as he presented the winners' medals to the Poms. Not even the ghost of a smile.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: The Walrus
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 08:40 PM

"...p.s. Didn't Prime Minister John Howard look absolutely graceless as he presented the winners' medals to the Poms. Not even the ghost of a smile..."

John Howard, I can understand - National Pride and all that - (It's understandable, just not excusable).
Worse, I thought, was the pillock from the organisers who was awarding the medals to the Australians, it was almost "take this and sod off"<1>, It looked as if he'd lost money backing the Aussies.

I enjoyed the match - I'm just not looking forward to the press for the next few days.

Walrus

<1> I think in one or two cases, he just handed the medal over, rather than the traditional 'hang around the neck')

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: The Walrus
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 08:41 PM

Sorry, in my last post for 'handed over' read 'shoved in their hand'

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 02:18 AM

A really good cliffhanger! Well done both teams!

Aside from the result, I must say what a fantastic opening ceremony.

The kids that started that Hymn? Anthem? and then ending up with the full choir I must admit, had me really choked up with emotion.

And what clever organiser included True Colours? very appropriate I thought.

Well done Oz.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 02:52 AM

On the down side:

The UK ITV coverage was really poor - most of the atmosphere being lost in the commercial breaks and some of the ref's decsions were more than a little strange.

We get used to the sight of people being awarded and stuggling under huge pieces of gold or silverware - but in Martin Johnson's hands this cup looked like an egg-cup!

Looking at the re-runs, (for I had to close my eyes too much when it was on live) the large number of important tackles that Johnny Wilkinson made were just as important as his kicking. I think I would like to bear his children........

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: paulo
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 12:22 PM

Great final.    Won by they right team.

But can we change the anthem?    God save the Queen?   Or as Harry was singing God save my Granny.

Lets have something that's not BRITISH but ENGLISH.   Come on.   Suggestions.

Paulo

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: paulo
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 12:24 PM

Joe

This could then transfer to the music section!!!!!

Paulo

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 12:49 PM

We've had threads about a proposed English National Anthem before. Maybe someone could stick in a link. I seem to recall that I favoured "We All Live in a Yellow Submarine".

Or since the Ozzies decided they didn't want Waltzing Matilda, and opted for Advance Australia Fair (in which direction is never made clear), perhaps the English could repatriate the tune, with the Walking the Bulldog words. It'd be a good way of commemorating what happened on Saturday...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 01:12 PM

Twickenham folk club (Spiers and Boden tonight, in a couple of hours time)has to be cancelled if there's a rugby match on a Sunday.

Oh well, at least 22 November will now be memorable for a reason other than the assassination of JFK. First time a team from the Northern hemisphere has won the world cup...

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 02:27 PM

It's the date of the downfall of Maggie Thatcher, so it's already a date with some cheerful connections, to balance out Dallas.

The Womens Rugby World Cup was last year, when New Zealand won. Somnehow it didn't get the same attention. Maybe next time.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: boglion
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 02:45 PM

Can it really be called a World Cup any more than the laughable World Series in Baseball (or is it Rounders)?

There are only 5 or 6 countries who could conceivably ever win it. It is the main sport only in three major nations: New Zealand, South Africa (among the whites), and Wales.

Australian Rules is far bigger in Oz. Soccer is far far bigger in England and Scotland. It has a small following around Toulouse in France. While in Ireland it comes in behind Gaelic Football, soccer and hurling.

The rules are impossible to understand and even the players misjudge them continually. I managed to get a rugby supporting friend of mine (he's a member of Bath RFC) to admit this week that he didn't understand the rules.

It's a very strange phenomenon. Probably there will be a resurgence of crowds going to matches in England but this will soon fade away as spectators get disillusioned by the intricacy of the rules.

Still as someone said on my favourite Millwall website; "If England were the Ludo World Champions I'd be delighted but I wouldn't necessarily want to watch it"

Slainte,

Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Phot
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 06:41 PM

Well done the boys! This game kept me on the edge of my seat!
Shame it wasn't Wales!

Wassail!!

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: GUEST,ooh-aah
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 10:11 PM

I've heard some sour grapes in my time, but Terry's takes the cake!

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: mouldy
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 02:45 AM

I was in Ripon Cathedral doing a craft fair, with a radio plugged into my lughole. The people next to me had one too, and a woman about 3 stalls away had a little 3" screen TV - and this was only in one corner of the building. Every time anything was scored the Dean climbed into the pulpit and made an announcement. When things got somewhat nerveracking, it got a bit "loud" in our corner, to say the least. An hour or two later, the Dean wandered past, took one look at my England shirt, raised an eyebrow and said, "I take it it was you doing all the shouting, then?" They don't half echo, these old buildings!

To my shame I still haven't seen any of the game, as I was out during the evening. My daughter's fiance says not to, if I care for my nerves, as he still gets all wound up even after two or three viewings - a friend of his, an undertaker, got called out just around the 80 minute mark to pick up a heart attack victim due to the match, and again through the replay later that night!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Gurney
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 03:38 AM

Paulo wants an English anthem?    Easy.   Jerusalem.

As Mick Flanders pointed out in the intro to HIS patriotic song.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 08:31 AM

Boglion - why shouldn't it be called the World Cup? It's open to all nations. Your line about "only 5 or 6 countries could conceivably ever win it" is true also of the Soccer World Cup (in fact I doubt if there are as many as 5 nowadays), and only one country could win the World Series (the USA's the only country with so little imagination) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: GUEST,English John
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 10:43 AM

Walrus,
       I agree about the presentation. It was one of the most astonishing and comical official functions I have ever seen. Could it be the little fellow handing out the gongs just wanted to get out of the rain?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Big Tim
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 04:06 PM

I believe that the World Series is derived from the name of the newspaper that originally organised or sponsored the competition: it does not mean World Championship. (Perhaps one of our American friends could enlighten us on this point).

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: GUEST,Canberra Chris
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 05:55 PM

Missed the game, performing with the Shiny Bum Singers at the Loaded Dog in Sydney, then the replay driving home. But we did perform the following parody during the game, with actions:

We Are The Rugby Ones (Parody of 'I Am Australian')

Sometimes for no reason
We form those weird scrums
A form of male bonding
With our heads between our bums
Other times we line up
And leap into the air
But we look so silly when
The ball just isn't there.

Chorus:
We are large, but we are stupid
And from all the rugby lands we come
With leather balls, and silly headgear,
I am, youse are, we are the Rugby Ones.

Welsh sing 'Bread of Heaven'
In parts, for they are hot
English sing the chorus of
'Swing Low, Sweet Chariot'
And other songs are sung
In the bath after the game
But their words I would not
Repeat to you for shame.

by Chris Clarke (I am a Mudcatter, on my other email address)

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Nov 03 - 06:42 PM

And NO POSITIVE DRUGS TESTS !

Which reminds me of the Old Old Joke.


"The Welsh Team tested positive for Valium"

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 04:11 AM

Absolutely brilliant, anyone who can say that it was not an exiting final has got to be joking - World wide competition (the teams of 80 countries were involved in the qualifying tournanments), the game went to extra time and the final seconds of that extra time.

The Australians played well, their pack were blown before half-time, but hell's teeth they hung on and made a game of it.

Ard Mhacha may go on about Wilkinson's kicking - but as someone else has said - He put in some mighty tackles.

Some rather odd decisions by the Ref regarding his interpretation of "crossing" - I actually thought you had to cross, also with the scrum collapsing - situation England scrum 5m short of the Aussie line, English pack completely dominating, scrum collapses and the penalty gets awarded against England????.

But for all that a fantastic match - WELL DONE ENGLAND.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Gurney
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 04:55 AM

For the record: The guy hurriedly handing out the medals is said to have been harrassed by the TV crew, as the match had gone into extra time. He has apologised and explained.
That's what they said on sports radio here in Godzone, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 05:43 AM

Boglion moans that it's not much of a World Cup because only a few countries play it, and says also that in South Africa only the whites play. Now I dont know anything about South African sport so I cant comment on that, but I do have a lot of friends(who are black) from Zimbabwe, which borders on South Africa. And they are all rugger fanatics. They have a fantastic rugger song called "Shosholosa" (which I'm pretty sure is South African in origin) which they sing magnifiecently.(They also sing Swing Low as well, but that's another story). Anyway, I just thought I'd mention this in case people are deluded into thinking that rugger is just a white sport.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 06:11 AM

Teribus one try in the game dosen`t say much for flowing rugger, have another look and you will see it was a dour struggle, dominated by appaling conditions. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Big Tim
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 06:51 AM

Greg: is that Zimbabwean song the same one as the "Cho Cho Losa" song recorded by the Ian Campbell Group in the 60s?

Rugby's not my sport...but surely it's perfectly legit for any player to excel at any aspect of the game; for example - kicking.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:13 AM

Perhaps this post of mine earlier on was somewhat prophetic - England did use rather unusual tactics - and they did win !

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:08 AM

ard mhacha,

If memory and match statistics are correct, there were two tries, wingers tries, both magnificent, both relied on the judgement and experience of the players who scored them. Each side took every opportunity to kick in their attempts to put points on the board, the English side were just ahead in their ability in that department of the game.

Possession and time in the opponents half, both statistics very heavily in England's favour. But for one handling error there would have been two England tries. England always looked like they were about to score. In the second half, during passages of play by the Australians, even after five phases of play, time after time, they completely failed to cross the gain line.

The game was flowing enough, it was certainly exciting enough, nothing dour about it at all - Ard - Don't confuse sport with entertainment, as I've said before, that has never been what World Cup Finals are about - It's purely about winning. All the record books will tell you is that the 2003 Rugby World Cup was won by England, the first Northern Hemisphere side to win the trophy.

While weather conditions may dictate the course of a game - they most certainly cannot dominate it - conditions being the same for both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:29 AM

Big Tim: I've never heard the Ian campbell group do it, but it will be the same song I'm sure. Shosholosa (Chocholosa?) and Wimoweh(Mbebe) were the two African songs knocking around on the folk scene at that time, I recall. The Ladysmtih Black Mombazo recording of Shosholosa was I think used as a TV theme tune for some previous coverage of a world cup a few yeard back: though perhaps only in South Africa and not world wide.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Canberra Chris
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:41 PM

NORTHWEST PASSAGE (Northwest Passage: Stan Rogers)

Dedicated to the Aussie forwards in the 2003 World Cup final, and the gallant Canberra-based Canadians.

Chorus: Ah, for just one time I would take the Northwest Passage
To find the hand of Johnson reach illegal for the ball;
Tracing one more line through a pack so wild and savage
And make a Northwest Passage through the maul.

Westward from the scrum-base 'tis there 'twas said to lie
The route through the advantage line for which so many try;
Seeking cup and glory, leaving weary, broken bones
And a long-forgotten trail of grunts and moans.

Three driving mauls thereafter, I take passage overland
In the footsteps of brave Finnegan, when through the scrum he ran
Watching flankers rise before him, then behind him sink again
That hardiest of forwards, driving on despite the pain.

And through the maul, behind the ball, the leg-drive pushing west
I think upon big Willie, Toutai Kefu and the rest
Who cracked their forward ramparts and did show a path for mine
To race a roaring charge across the line.

How then am I so different from the first men through this way?
Like them, I left a settled life, I threw it all away.
To seek a Northwest Passage through the strength of many men
To find myself flung backwards once again.

by Chris Clarke

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 03:48 AM

Teribus, The usual long-winded crap, did you ever play any sport, tell any Manager, Coach, or experienced player that conditions don`t matter and he will have you certified.
England massive pack and their many years playing together deserved a reward, they got it with the aid of the greatest kicker that ever graced the game, but please don`t tell me that pouring rain and a sodden pitch won`t make most games a lottery.
Stick your music contributions on the `cat?. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Hrothgar
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 04:24 AM

Let's change the laws so that we don't have to play in the rain.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 04:47 AM

It's time Hard Matchbox, or Mad Munchkin, or whatever her name is, put a sock in it. The weather was wet, but both teams ran it wide, making for an incredibly exiting game, even without the heart-stopping ending. As for 'boring for a neutral spectator', she must be joking - my wife, who is German, nearly had the police visiting she was shrieking so loud with exitement. Let's not fool ourselves that Machacha is neutral anyway - her anti-English bias is so clear that her comments simply seem ludicrous - as a Primary School teacher her comments reminded me of typical grade 3 sour grapes when an enemy wins a prize. Nice one England - God help the Irish when England meet them, whatever the weather. (I'm presuming Macher is Irish from the whingy-whiny mingy carping tone of her comments - but of course she could be a Scot, or a man, or both).

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 04:48 AM

Hrothgar,

LOL!! That might work well for an Australian "winter" sport.

Ard Mhacha,

Your bias and bigotry are showing. You're the one talking crap, match statistics are a bitch aren't they. English pack not that much heavier than their Australian opponents. The Aussie team have been around for a fair time themselves. The greatest kicker also played extremely well off the ball and in the tackle, don't deny that of dismiss the importance of it.

I pulled you up on your statement about weather dominating the game - IT CAN'T - I said it will dictate how that game is played - take a look through your own posts in this thread and you will find at one point you said exactly the same thing.

Oh! by the way, I did play play Rugby, at a fairly respectable level - how about you?

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: GUEST,OOH-AAH
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 05:14 AM

I apologise that my forthright comment to the Munchkin appeared as from an anonymous (cowardly) guest. I am OOH-AAH! and I have the good luck to be ENGLISH, oh the delight and glory! (And winning the rugby was good too!) Maniacal laughter followed by sound of breaking glass as wife smashes bottle on head.
If only Arnie Musher could show some of the admirable sportsmanship and good grace shown by the Australian team and (remarkably) most of the Australian media.

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: CET
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 07:00 PM

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who noticed that the fellow who presented the silver medals was a graceless jerk.

I never had the chance to play the game when I was younger, but even I could tell that the result was not just a result of a massive pack and a great kicker. The English running game was at least as good as the Australian. This was no lottery. England clearly dominated and it was their mistakes that kept the score as close as it was.

Edmund

Subject: RE: BS: Rugby World Cup
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 09:07 PM

In truth it was an unusual game in that England - despite the fact that they were pressing and dictating the game - did not score any points in the second half.

You could have expected any team in their position to have added some points during this period from penalty kicks etc, especially given the skill of Jonny Wilkinson. But you can't score from penalty kicks if none in kickable range are awarded. Credit should go to the Australian team for their play in this period and for their disipline in not having penalties awarded against them within kicking distance of the posts.

However, I think this was only partly true as it is unusual for a referee never to blow-up for any of the indiscretions that must have been commited by the mainly defending Australian team in this 40 minute period. Especially as most of the play was in the Australian half and the England team had most of the ball............?

I used to have to play the game at school under a sadistic (Welsh) sports master. I developed a stategy for survival where I always managed to ensure that wherever the ball was - I was not.