BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 03:59 PM

gnu-

There is the question you raised above of whether there was a blackout before the ship had its initial collision. According to some reports I've read, the Captain tried to convince an official at Costa headquarters that a prior blackout would be a better cover story but that official has been quoted as "having refused to do that."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 04:55 PM

Charley.... "There is the question you raised above of whether there was a blackout before the ship had its initial collision."

Not me. It was in the previous post that made no sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 05:41 PM

""Could there have been a power failure BEFORE hitting the rocks?""

I believe the question is" why did all the power go out (not why did the ship have a crippling gash in it's side) and why was there no back up power available, as most ships have back up power for basic processes, like steering, at a minimum". A screw up in the electronics seems like one possibility, if similarly constructed ships experienced a similar electrical failure.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 09:09 PM

Ed-

Good question but I suppose it's still too soon to get a definitive answer.

The power certainly went out almost immediately after the initial collision. One engine room was reported flooded by the gash but there's supposed to be a second engine room on this type of boat. They did manage to power the bow thrusters, after the ship had glided to almost a complete stop, to enable the ship to turn around 180 degrees and then drift into shore for grounding. And there certainly was lighting visible along the side of the listing ship when she ultimately ground.

I'm thinking that I recall several major cruise liners which suffered total engine loss after relatively small fires. Whatever happened to back-up systems on these boats?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 10:19 AM

This is a nice clip of what the Coast Guard officer said to the Captain when he realized he had already abandoned ship, leaving some 300 passengers and crew still aboard (Wikipedia):

The Corriere Fiorentino subsequently released audio recordings of radio calls in the Italian language from Coast Guard Captain Gregorio Maria De Falco repeatedly ordering Schettino to return to the ship from his lifeboat and assist in the ongoing passenger evacuation. At one point, Di Falco screamed at Schettino, "Vada a bordo, cazzo!"[p 4] (translated as "Get the fuck back on board!" or "Get back on board, for fuck's sake!").

T-shirts emblazoned with the phrase "Vada a bordo, cazzo!" are now a best-selling item in Italian stores and on the internet.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 03:56 PM

Not an official source, and we do not know the details of the Costa Concordia. But, basic information on requirements for a ships emergency back-up power for vital services (such as steering).

Emergency power requirements

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 04:45 PM

Generally speaking, most ships have a battery backup which energizes only crtical components until the generators come on. For about 25 to 30 years, automatic transfer switchgear equip have been able to bring generators online within 11 seconds (standard spec). The batteries are, more or less, seamless for critical systems like lighting (lighting on the bridge is minimal... almost dark as the displays provide enough light for crew movement and make the displays sharper) and nav on the bridge, computers, comm, whatever. Very little emergency lighting in the rest of the ship is powered by the batteries... mostly exit lights and very little "guide" lighting.

As for a requirement for a second engine, have you got a link for that? The only specs I have found, as I posted earlier, say : "Engine: Wartsila, 12-cylinder" There is no plural. ONE engine as far as I can search on the net. I have been in engine rooms on twin prop ice breaker class ferries and both engines were in the same room.

It's gonna be a long while before the story is told.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 04:53 PM

Ed-

Thanks for posting that information about back-up electrical generators. Good idea that such generators are located above the waterline.

gnu-

Well, it's evident from photos that the on-deck lighting was fully powered after the ship had grounded on the harbour point. And since the bow thrusters were needed to turn the ship around 180 degrees, they most have been powered as well. Don't know if the pumps were powered.

Sounds like the engine room was flooded almost immediately after the initial impact.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 04:59 PM

Yes, the thrusters are powered by electric motors. These are fed from the electrical power generated by the engine(s) under normal circumstances. The fact that they can be switched to emergency generators is an added safety bonus even when there are two engines.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 05:11 PM

Wikki has updated information that says:
""Costa Concordia is 290.20 metres (952 ft 1 in) long, with a beam of 35.50 metres (116 ft 6 in) and a draught of 8.20 metres (26 ft 11 in). She is equipped with a diesel-electric propulsion with six 12-cylinder Wärtsilä 12V46C[14] four-stroke medium-speed diesel generating sets with a combined output of 75,600 kilowatts (101,400 hp) and two 21 MW electric motors connected to fixed-pitch propellers.[15] Her service speed is 19.6 knots (36.3 km/h; 22.6 mph),[9] but during sea trials she could achieve a speed of 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph)"".

Costa Concordia

I asked a navy engineer about what type of power would be needed to operate a rudderless electronic prop steering system,that I understand most cruise ships have. He said "alot of power"
That's why I suspect (though cant seem to confirm) that a back-up generator, to give more power, may have been built into the upper decks. If power was not available for steering, oit would likely mean the delivery system to the props were down, and possibly damaged.

However, I recall the comments of a retired cruise ship captain on the CBC Fifth Estate. He said that cruise ship owners only install the safety equipment that they are required to install. He said something like" if they did not have to put in lifeboats, and had a choice to replace them with balconies that would bring in more money, they would likely do it"

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 06:59 PM

Thanks Ed T. Six diesel engines supplying electric power to the electric engines to supply the props makes far more sense. That SEEMS to indicate one engine room. And, ergo, perhaps why they were rudderless.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 04:18 PM

"...and a draught of 8.20 metres..."

On which side?

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 05:08 PM

Cruel joke, bud. But, I admire your courage.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 10:40 AM

Back to documenting what happened aboard the Concordia. A new TG5 video has just been released that's worth watching: Click here for video!

I'm not sure how long the link will work so here's a summary:

The footage, from the bridge of the ship, shows the captain to be supremely relaxed as the disaster unfolds.

At least 17 people died in the incident and 15 are missing. An American lawyer, John Arthur Eaves, is filing for compensation for the victims and suggested that families of those who died should sue Carnival Cruises for between $1 million and $3 million.
And lawyers will certainly be carefully studying the video, broadcast by Italian network TG5, which shows confusion among the captain and crew on the ship's bridge in the hour after Concordia rammed a reef.

A 50-meter hole was gouged out of the giant liner after it struck a rock close to the island of Giglio at 9.42 pm on 13 January.

At first the crew seem to be calm. But after half an hour, with the ship tilting at a 20-degree angle, panic breaks out among senior crew members.

At 10.25pm a man identified in the video as Captain Francesco Schettino is seen talking on the phone while senior officers struggle to understand what is happening, with at least one shouting out: "What do we do?"

One official is heard saying: "Passengers are getting into the life boats."

A man believed to be Capt Schettino then replies: "Vabbuo", which means "Whatever".

Francesco Verusio, the magistrate leading the investigation into the disaster, told The Independent: "This is new to us – I've just seen it for the first time. We've heard everything that was happening on the bridge."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 09:28 AM

The source of the above video is somewhat mysterious; no credit is provided. It certainly looks and sounds real. I don't think it was taken by a crew member or guest since there is little movement. Most likely the newspaper managed to get access to a bridge webcam video from a semi-official source.

It's really amazing to view, and especially eery with the emergency bridge lighting. But I wish it hadn't been edited down to five minutes. I suppose at some point we'll get to view the entire video with transcript.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 09:35 AM

No, it's not a webcam after all. The camera does pan and zoom as if it is being hand-held.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 06:52 PM

Costa Concordia fuel removal operation begins

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 08:15 PM

Bernard-

Thanks for posting that update. If all goes well, it will be at least a month before they pump her dry. But at least they're able to begin.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 08:34 AM

Then we'll see if they are brave enough to go ahead with the plan to parbuckle her upright...!

Relatively straightforward with something smaller, maybe - but that thing's enormous! Unless they are gambling on the precarious perch to work to their advantage.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 10:27 AM

Interesting site, with some different approaches to lift sunken and capsized ships.

Sunken and capsized ships

Salvage Engineers's Handbook


General Hydrostatics

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:49 PM

The engineering behind salvaging such a ship is indeed fascinating.

I still want to see the full video shot on the bridge; I've only seen a 4-5 minute clip. I wonder who shot it.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:51 PM

If Costa finds out who shot the vid, there might be another shooting.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 02:01 PM

Gnu-

It may have been his girlfriend.

Evidently more video will be released today. Here's a summary of what I've just harvested about the video:

Italy's TG5 News Service has uncovered video from the deck of the Costa Concordia immediately following the ship's running aground off the coast of Giglio, Italy. They have released approximagely half of the 9-minute video, which shows Captain Francesco Schettino relaxed as the crew struggles to analyze the problem.

Britain's Telegraph has taken the footage and closed captioned it. On it, you see the bridge illuminated by only the emergency lights after the power on the ship had failed.

According to the Telegraph's translation, a voice is heard to say,"Here everything is going to hell.. There is a hole, I believe...so water is coming in."

A man believed to be Captain Francesco Schettino then replies: "I've spoken to the control room and they say with two compartments flooded we should survive, there is no problem."

He continues: "Let's wait a bit more, so we make leeway toward more shallow waters. Then we can drop the anchor...at worst we can sit on the seabed. We shall see."

It is several minutes more before the abandon ship order is given, and this after ship's officers are heard urging the captain to give the order, saying that "passengers are getting on lifeboats spontaneously".

The abandon ship order is given at 10:32 PM, and lifeboats aren't lowered until nearly 25 minutes later.

TG5 has not said who shot the video, although an Italian Daily is speculating that it might have been Moldovan dancer Domnica Cemortan, who has been linked to Captain Schettino.
They also said they'll release the second part of the video today.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 02:09 PM

She's screwing him? Again? >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 05:40 PM

gnu-

Actually I think Schettinno did a great job of screwing himself.

Domnica Cemortan is merely an accessory, who may also have had a video camera while she was on the bridge and the smarts to make some money.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 05:57 PM

Here's a link to the rest of the TG5 video, in Italian, but it does provide some stunning images of the efforts to launch the lifeboats: click here for video!

Initially some of the crew-members are joking around. Then things get serious as the ship continues to list.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:36 PM

I'd like to make a suggestion for the furure design of life boats... could we get some scenic deck seating for emergencies so people don't have to jump into the water and swim in such situations? Gee whiz... it ain't rocket science. Seriously... what about a tow rope with clip on hooks? Why don't the safety engineers explore ALL the possibilities? They may not work in all seas but the options should be there, no?

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 10:16 PM

gnu-

I'm wondering how quickly the ship went from about a 20 degree list after her final grounding to all the way over on her starboard side. In the video you see crew-members horsing around at a 20 degree list, and they're getting the lifeboats launched in a reasonable half-assed fashion. Later in the video, which isn't very long, they're fending off what looks to me like a loose crane and some other flying debris, and they're not looking like they're having much fun anymore.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 01:48 PM

There's some success reported now on pumping the oil out of the grounded wreck. But it will take at least a month, pumping 24 hours a day. The oil needs to be warmed so it can flow. The tanks need to be tapped and then refilled with salt water after they are emptied.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:58 AM

Well, the harvest this morning of updates on this tragic blunder only turns up this ludicrous offering: Click here for story

You too can purchase your own Capt. Francesco Schettino sailor suit. Just the thing to wear at the next gathering at your yacht club. And if you buy one, you might well be offered command of a mega luxury liner!

My personal alternative choice would be the "Vada a Bordo, Cazzo"(Get on board, damn it) T-shirt.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:36 AM

""The oil needs to be warmed so it can flow""

I take it from this, that the oil is Bunker C,rather than Diesel. Correct?

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:37 AM

But... does it come with a life jacket?

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 02:50 PM

Bunker C is the usual fuel for such large vessels.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:18 PM

Meanwhile, I've managed to harvest some more bearable news:

By Nick Squires, Rome
3:56PM GMT 09 Feb 2012

Italian divers risked life and limb to rescue a teddy bear that a child had left behind on the Costa Concordia during the chaotic evacuation of the cruise ship last month.

The child's father told rescuers that the little boy had been unable to sleep since the disaster and desperately missed his toy.

He wrote to islanders who had given shelter to him and his son after they were brought ashore when the 950ft long vessel ran aground on the Italian island of Giglio on the night of Jan 13.

Islanders passed the letter to the island's mayor, Sergio Ortelli, who in turn gave it to rescue divers, who entered the hull on a special mission, finding the cabin where the boy had been staying and retrieving the soft toy – bedraggled but intact.

Bad weather has repeatedly forced divers to suspend their operations in the hull of the crippled ship but they took advantage of a break in the weather earlier this week to go back in – a welcome break from the grim task of looking for bodies.

They found the bear hidden in a tangle of debris – overturned tables, chairs, mattresses and scattered luggage.

Rescuers sent the teddy bear back to the boy, who lives with his father in Verona in northern Italy, having lost his mother some years ago.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:26 PM

Cruise ships and fuel

Cruise oil fuel

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 10:23 PM

Ed-

That would certainly be good news if stricter standards were adopted with regard to minimizing the sulfur content of cruise ship fuel.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Feb 12 - 08:05 AM

The updates on this wreck focus on two things.

First, about two thirds of the oil has been successfully pumped out of the ship. However, the oil that remains which is in the stern of the ship will be more difficult to recover.

Second, there is increasing concern about the stability of the hull. Evidently the ship is perched on two rock outcroppings, one at each end of the ship, and as the hull shifts the outcroppings are crumbling and cracks may be developing in the hull itself.

Here's the link at Wikipedia: click here for report!

Fox News (sic) reports on Capt. Schettino's drug testing and seems disappointed that the tests came out negative for cocaine and are demanding more follow-up testing...

And here's a nice quote for your files:

At the time of impact, Captain Schettino was on the telephone with retired Captain Mario Palombo, telling Palombo: "Seeing as we're passing the island, we'll sound the siren for you".[14] In addition, at the captain's invitation, the maître d'hôtel of the ship, who is from the island, came to the ship's bridge to see the island during the sail-past.[47]

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 12 - 03:14 PM

Faux News is "demanding" more tests???

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 01:47 PM

Eight more bodies found today

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 02:05 PM

Even tho it's been 5 weeks, it's still chilling and sad news.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 07:25 PM

Here's one story:

Divers find 8 more bodies in ship wreckage
Published February 22, 2012
Associated Press

ROME-- Divers searching the capsized Costa Concordia cruise ship found eight bodies Wednesday on one of the passenger decks, including that of a missing 5-year-old Italian girl, authorities said.

Italy's national civil protection agency, which is monitoring the operation off a Tuscan island, said four of the bodies had been recovered -- those of a woman, a girl, a man and a person whose sex could not immediately be determined. Because of worsening weather, the divers were unable to immediately remove the other four bodies. That operation will resume Thursday, if seas are calm.

Sad news but at least the families will have some closure.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 07:53 PM

Article over a month old. Not new, but, still interesting.Posting in case no one did so before.

Perfect storm of events

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 08:55 PM

Ed-

The above January 15th report makes interesting reading but at that point it was all pretty much guesswork, and some of the guesses appear not to have been correct.

I wonder how long it will be before there is a final report.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 02:37 PM

Now another of their vessels, after fire in the engine room, is drifting without power near the Seychelles in the Indian Ocean, waiting for a tow.
Some 1000 uncomfortable passengers having a hard time.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 03:15 PM

""drifting without power""

As posted earlier, there was a similar loss of power/steering on a similar vessel earlier) Makes one wonder, (outside of human error) if there is a serious safety flaw that needs to be addressed with this class of cruise vessels?

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 03:41 PM

Most safety flaws can be traced to accountants and management trying to please shareholders or politicians. Been there, done that. Said it before on other threads... I told them to change my engineering designs in writing, sign and date it or give me in writing a directive to change my design, signed, dated and stamped and notarized by their lawyer and my lawyer, at their cost. I was NOT popular.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 04:05 PM

The Costa Allegra...

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 05:48 PM

Seychelles, Seychelles,
What a sea shore!
Let's all go a-cruising the world to explore!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 06:13 PM

""Most safety flaws can be traced to accountants and management trying to please shareholders or politicians""

True, and the influence of the cruise ship companies at the IMO, is significant.

Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:23 PM

Assuming the weather holds, everything looks promising for the passengers and crew.

There is this interesting footnote in the above report:

"Somali pirates are known to operate in the area where the ship is adrift, though they have never seized a cruise liner.

Nine members of the Italian navy's anti-pirate unit are on board the ship as a precaution."

One wonders if there is really an anti-piracy unit aboard or whether that was put out to scare pirates away. But then, what would Somali pirates do with such a huge catch?

Charley Noble