BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:34 PM

No, Giok. 2003 - 'In the UK'. (Unless I missed something.)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Lox
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:41 PM

This is madness.

Having taken the opportunity to dip my toe in the proverbial water of this debate, I am more deeply persuaded than ever that it runs way too deep for the context within which it exists.

There is a whole submerged Archive of precedent and long considered opinion on this issue more proportionate to a law Library than to what, in all fairness, equates to a squabble between regulars at a bingo hall concerning whose seat is whose.

My conclusion, with which I bow out, is that this is actually all about personalities and that the "issue" is just a big impenetrable smokescreen.

I think this applies to those on both sides of the argument and that posting on these points is a compulsion for the abusers as much as for the abusee.

However, the main issue for me remains, increasingly so, that ultimately this is an unhealthy experience, particularly in the long term, for Shambles and it would be in his interests to drop it. I believe he has a responsibility to himself to do so.

I also believe that the abusers need to face up to their weakness in this matter and to accept that if they do not wish to deal with shambles they should leave him alone.

As I said a while ago on another thread, he is the playground punchbag. He's an easy target and you can be sure of a cheer from the crowd when you score a hit.

He's like a volunteer bull at a bullfight, but that doesn't suddenly make bullfighting ok.

Shambles is harmless. Just leave him alone and there will be no argument.

And if he posts in a way you don't like - so what. Just read the next post or refer to the one before and keep the thread on track.

If you engage him in argument, then you cannot expect him to roll over and die. You will merely find yourself getting frustrated at both his stubbornness and his depth of reasoning.

You may find yourself tempted to take that frustration out on him, and so the cycle continues.

As I've said before, the relationship is symbiotic. Like that of a codependant couple. Destroying each other, but remaining together nonetheless, looking forward to their next row as despite the pain it causes it will be a familiar part of their routine and in the absence of positives is a source of a perverse kind of security and stability.

This has been my last post on the subject.


Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:47 PM

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it, Jeri? You can see exactly the same dynamic happening in the seemingly endless quarrels and misunderstandings between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, Jews and Muslims in the Middle East, whites and blacks, Democrats and Republicans, the North and South Koreans, Michael Jackson and almost everybody...

"I'm not going to quit until HE (or they) admits he's (or they're) wrong, and I was right all along!"

Now, consider the fairly large number of individuals involved. Is there any chance that they will ALL wise up and decide not to say another word about it?

LOL! Not a dog's chance in hell. This will go on forever...or until either the Mudcat Cafe or Roger vanish into the sunset, depart this mortal coil, and cease to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:51 PM

Possibly there will be a reaction- normally that reaction is the offending poster reforms their behaviour. Sometimes they leave the forum. Normaly if the offending poster does NOT reform their behaviour they get banned.

MMario I have read your post with interest and concern.

It seems to me that it is an argument for carrying on treating posters less well than they could be treated - without really explaining what is to be gained by this approach.

It appears to be a rather unfriendly take or leave it approach and one that does not come to mind when I think of our forum. For had it been - it would not have been a place I would have supported for so long.

For this is an approach that would seem to ensure that posters were inhibited from posting to our forum - rather that one designed to encourage posters to feel safe to post.

I have found that when you take a little time and trouble to treat people well - they tend to respond in kind.

And if they do not - by not being seen to stoop to their tactics and attitude - you then have the moral high ground (and for what it is worth) - some justification to then judge their conduct wanting.

From the little personal experiance I have seen of the way our police tend to treat football fans on big match days - when people are judged to be and are treated and herded like livestock - they tend to respond as if they were.

When those who would judge themselves to be nice people are seen to adopt the tactics of those they judge to be the not-nice people - it becomes difficult to tell the difference.

Perhaps by being seen to be doing this - there is a danger that the so-called nice people become the not-nice people?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 06:59 PM

Indeed. But who is going to get the last word in? Who? Whaddya think? And when will it happen?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:09 PM

You may have missed the following editing comment as it was inserted into the thread and did not refresh it:

Faulty .html coding in the above post has been corrected by an anonymous moderator.

Perhaps anonymous moderators inserting corrections could do so in manner that refreshes the thread, so that everyone may know that a correction has been made?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:15 PM

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it, Jeri? You can see exactly the same dynamic happening in the seemingly endless quarrels and misunderstandings between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, Jews and Muslims in the Middle East, whites and blacks, Democrats and Republicans, the North and South Koreans, Michael Jackson and almost everybody...

I suggest that it is the other way around.

It is perhaps time to recognise that all these big disputes are caused by just the same ordinary people having the same sort of squabbles as is witnessed here.

Those who post only to judge the discussions in this thread not to be important and encourage the participants to address the world's big problems instead - are entirely missing the point.

There is no point in discussing and no hope of us solving the world's big problems - if posters here cannot just accept for a start that others have as much right to express their views as they do and where they are encouraged to feel they have some right to prevent, or restrict the views of others.

The only way the world's big problems will ever be solved is by discussion and tolerance. Posters here know this - but insist on turning differences in opinion into open warfare - by issuing threats and using all the words of armed conflict where might is right - as if this approach to disputes ever resulted in anything other than yet more conflict.   

If our forum can just be allowed to be seen to agree to disagree - they will be some hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 07:23 PM

"It is perhaps time to recognise that all these big disputes are caused by just the same ordinary people having the same sort of squabbles as is witnessed here."

Yeah. That's exactly what I was saying, Roger. I'm saying that people usually continue an argument simply because they've already got a lot of emotional investment IN the argument, and they want to "win" it, and by winning it to make someone else lose. And they, of course, want to get in the last devastating word in such a telling and brilliant way that it reduces their opponent to stunned impotence... ;-)

Just like in a TV show. The decisive wrap-up. Like when Steve McGarret says, "Book 'em, Dan-O." The music rolls dramatically, and the episode ends! Once again "good" has triumphed over "evil". ;-)

Alas, real life is just not that neatly arranged most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:06 PM

Shambles is harmless.

Now look here - you can post any personal abuse at me - but please don't ruin all that has gone before. I have a hard-earned reputation to maintain - don't you know?

I am public enemy No 1 and safe to be blamed as the cause of all Mudcat ills (and a few more).

And things will only improve when I recant or I am driven away or when Max is finally pushed into implementing the required change to members only posting.

For I am I not seen to be publicly judged - by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - as not to be a nice person.

No I am not a cowardly and harmless 'dandylion' - I am the fierce, proud and dangerous King of the Jungle.........

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:17 PM

No Shambles. These rants and whines make you seem more like a jackass then like a lion.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:34 PM

Hmmm. Well, I can sort of hear McGarret saying that...but not at the end of the episode. That's the sort of thing that gets said about halfway through the show.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:34 PM

Little Hawk .... you are a wise man.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: jeffp
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:39 PM

Because he remembers Hawaii Five-Oh? Now I am confused.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:49 PM

That show had a lot going for it, specially the theme music. Very rousing.

Roger, please do not start a Hawaii Five-O thread now in response to these comments or I shall be forced to resort to extreme measures... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 02:21 AM

Why not - the threads started on the other two subjects introduced into this one have turned out to be very interesting?

If the show gets mentioned again in this thread, it will indicate there is similar interest - and I may well start a new thread on that subject.

This is not stopping you or anyone else from doing this.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:36 AM

But you're no allowed to post in other threads Roger! You said so yourself, so it must be right.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:40 AM

In general - your average poster does NOT get paranoid and defensive - if they have a post deleted most people assume there was a reason; whether or not they know what that reason is.

Our friend Lox posted in an earlier thread only to tell me to F*** O** and this post appeared but was later 'silently deleted' by some anonymous 'moderator'.

The poster in this case may have assumed that it was later 'silently deleted' because it was abusive against an individual named poster and used foul language. So they may well not have been very surprised at this imposed action.

But when a poster's contribution is 'silently deleted' just because it was unfortunate enought to share a thread with posts judged to meet the criteria and instead of just taking action against the offending post(s) the propotionate action is judged by our 'moderators' to be to 'silently delete' the entire thread - such a poster may be very surprised.

Our friend Lox may not have been surprised at their post being deleted - and perhaps they may be thankful that the proportionate action in that case was not for the anonymous 'moderator' to 'silently delete' the entire thread?

As they have made their last contribution to this debate - we may never know.

We may also never know if Lox would have been surprised to see similar posts to the one of their's that was 'silently deleted' - not only remaining on our forum but to see the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team openly encouraging such posts from certain favoured posters?

And to read the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team refer to a named poster is now banned for such postings.

But perhaps after this and witnessing the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team intentionally posting (in two different threads) the spam threads that other 'moderators' were busy deleting - Lox and our forum will not be surprised at any of the actions imposed, justifications given and assurances given to our forum by our 'moderators'.

Especially as the first thread targeted by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team to litter with spam posts - was to be later closed by him - because he then claimed it had become a target for spam posts.......Duh!

I suggest that the average poster to our forum (if there is such a thing) deserves better than this open display of double standards by our 'moderators' - especially as they are asked and expected to be in support of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:51 AM

Hawaii Five-O it is...

Did you know that Jack Lord was originally considered for the role of Captain Kirk. But he was rejected by Roddenberry because he wanted to co-produce and take a share of the royalties. So they threw a bone to Shatner (and he's been running with it ever since).

And I've wondered if Jack Lord used the same lacquer product on his hair that that annoyingly intense Caruso guy from CSI Miami uses.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:59 AM

Well here is a link to thread that is devoted to Hawaii Five O

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM

Here is another link.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: jeffp
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:18 AM

Trying to tell others where to post again, I see.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:34 AM

And another.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:51 AM

Uh oh... the linky-loos are taking over.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:21 AM

Actually - there is talk that Matt Damon will be the next person to play Capt Kirk. The movie is supposed to be a story about the early days on the Enterprise. We'll see if it ever happens or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:46 AM

It's the characters that make or break a series. I don't miss Shatner, but no one will ever replace Spok.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:57 AM

I smell a new thread coming up...

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 11:10 AM

It must be a pre-dump fart.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:26 PM

Don't talk like that! You'll disturb the other Guest, and she's already disturbed enough as it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:29 PM

I agree, Kendall. Spock was the one for me.

Kirk in some ways was what is wrong with the world. He had better people around him, most of all Spock's expertise and logic but he was the salesman for Startrek.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:38 PM

Hey! Don't knock William Shatner. He gave every un-talented, under-acheiver hope that they could be a success too. If Shatner could do it, why not me? Shatner was to Spock as John Davidson was to Frank Sinatra. Someone unkindly said that John Davidson had a two hundred dollar hair cut and a fifty cent brain.

Do I sense another thread being started by the Self-Appointed Protector Of Thread Purity?

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:46 PM

If Matt Damon plays the young Jim Kirk, then how are they going to explain the Shatner Kirk? Like, uh, maybe at the end of this movie he gets zapped with a Klingon Brain Zapper and loses 75% of his IQ but is still capable of bad acting or something along those lines.....maybe? Not a prequel part I'd recommend............

TRIVIA: What two actors both won an Oscar for their portrayal of the same character? It has only happened once.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:06 PM

Stop Shatner

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:00 AM

Do I sense another thread being started by the Self-Appointed Protector Of Thread Purity?

If there is any chance of any poster (like Jerry) who insists on posting on that subject here, really wishing to discuss the good Captain and they do not have any ulterior motives for being seen to attempt to hYjack this one - in the case the subject of William Shatner - there is no shortage of exsisting threads that can be refreshed.

So there is no need to expect the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing team to start a new one to ensure threads have titles that indicate the contents of the thread. in his quest for thread purity.

However, he may well be tempted to impose a new name on this thread and change it to yet another Shatner thread. It depends on which of his personal crusades is currently uppermost and which is seen to present the biggest concern in this vain attempt to be seen in some sort of control over every aspect of what posters choose to post.

Compelling as the subject of Mr Shatner may be to some posters - on a purely practical level, I think you may accept that such posters will be very unlikey to be aware of or able to find discussions and contribute themselves to their favourite subject when this is conducted and posted on a thread that is quite clearly titled Closed threads & deleted post (2)?

Joe Offer In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) (697* d) (thread title change complaint) 26 Jul 05

---------------------------------------------------------------------


Of course, if anyone dares to disagree with Shambles, it's labeled "abuse." Heck, if I say anything in disagreement with anybody, no matter how politely and logically, I get accused of all sorts of horrible things. I guess some people think I'm not allowed to express my opinion here. Such is life.

I was certainly aware that adding the tag (thread title change complaint) to the title of this thread, would be viewed by some as an act of defiance against the rules Shambles seeks to impose upon us. Still, the title In the UK... had no meaning at all, and our general principle is to ensure threads have titles that indicate the contents of the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:10 AM

William Shatner and Sandra Smith for playing James T. Kirk in the original Star Trek episode "Turnabout Intruder?

Brando and De Niro, Vito Corleone?

Giok

♪♫I feel a thread coming on ♫♪

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:40 AM

I feel this thread getting to 2000 + posts - (most of them ignoring the thread's subject and motivated by attempts to prevent discussion on it) like the previous ones.

Or posters could just finally accept that simply ignoring a thread that is not to their taste - leaving it to those whose taste it is and not posting anything to it - is the very best example for them to set.

But being seen to to join in with the 'nice persons' who are now encouraged ti indulge in their abusive online group bullying of the 'not-nice persons' - is just so much more fun.

Merry Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:54 AM

Or posters could just finally accept that simply ignoring a thread that is not to their taste - leaving it to those whose taste it is and not posting anything to it - is the very best example for them to set.


It is not the example you set. You try to turn other threads into your campaign AND you try to move off topic discussion in your thread into other threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 05:59 AM

Shamby.....Y' gotta' notice that no one except you wants to discuss it. First, you never discuss anything and second, everyone has heard all of your complaints hundreds of times and have heard all the answers so what is left? Now go and try this crap somewhere else.....you'll not last a week, probably not a day. Nobody gives two shits anymore becasue everyone except you seems to get it.

Now on to the subject at hand..........

Giok, my congrats! DeNiro and Brando are correct. I don't think we've ever run a Godfather thread.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:10 AM

It is not the example you set. You try to turn other threads into your campaign AND you try to move off topic discussion in your thread into other threads.

Such is the accusation and punishment from many who are seen to set a far worse example.

And they are judged to be 'nice persons'.

Would the 'alleged' example set by a 'not-nice person' be followed?

Song about The Godfather

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:12 AM

If proper sanitation facilities are no avail;able, the best way to deal with shit is to bury it. This will help prevent the spread of disease.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:20 AM

Shambles no one sets a worse example than you. You are everything you complain about here.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:24 AM

If proper sanitation facilities are no avail;able, the best way to deal with shit is to bury it. This will help prevent the spread of disease.

It has not proved to be the best way - has it?

Especially as proper sanitation facilites have always been available.

As if you are encourged to keep burying it with more shit - all you see is a huge smelly pile of it - which those who created it - only moan about having to see and smell.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:29 AM

Which is what you are doing shambles.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 06:29 AM

Shambles,

if you actually would do what you claim to do, namely discuss, there might even be people joining such a discussion.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 07:53 AM

if you actually would do what you claim to do, namely discuss, there might even be people joining such a discussion.

Well Wolfgang - you seem to be keen to post helpful observations (and less helpful judgements) like this one - but when our forum could reasonably expect you to discuss the issue - like confirming (when requested to) the existence of the thread we both posted to but has now entierly vanished without trace or explanation - you decline to discuss this.

Or are now prepared to confirm and discuss the circumstances of that thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 07:57 AM

Shambles no one can hold a discussion with you. You demand agreement with you no matter how ridiculous what you say might be.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 08:26 AM

You demand agreement with you no matter how ridiculous what you say might be.

If I did demand agreement for such things - I would only be following the example set by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles - PM
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 02:04 PM

Well, I used to give you equal treatment, Shambles - but you kept badgering me about that being repressive censorship.
So, you got what you asked for. Catspaw can say what he likes about you, until such time as you stop your incessant campaign against the way we do things here. You are not a nice person, Shambles. Do not expect to be treated nicely.
-Joe-

I only expect discussion to be able to freely take place in a clearly titled thread on the subject and on a forum set up for such a purpose.

Being seen to demand agreement, silence or issuing threats until another poster is forced to agree or is driven off is however an accusation that could be more suitably addressed at others on our forum.   

Those, like me who would also judge themselves to be a 'nice person'.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 08:28 AM

Shambles you are the worst example here.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 08:33 AM

http://neal.oxborrow.net/Thomas_Hardy/HenryMoule.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 09:29 AM

Henry Moule died in 1880, but even in his seventies he was still trying to persuade the British government that the earth-closet was the system of the future, and he nearly succeeded.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts (2)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 09:29 AM

Oh dear 300