BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 07:01 AM

We Brits should stand together as Great Britain!. We have the power!. As the fifth wealthiest country in the world, why would any country wish to stop trading with us? The remain party seem to imply that coming out will destroy trade with the EU. So BMW, Mercedes etc etc etc are just going to cut us off are they. NO WAY! They might be a little worried that we would buy from elsewhere perhaps... like Japan, Korea, USA etc etc. So of course they want us to stay in or they might lose our trade!. The fact is that we do not need the EU! What we do need is to come out and appoint a government which is truly democratic (i.e. Of the people, by the people FOR the people)... not just for the rich who get richer in the EU and the poor gradually getting poorer. How many food banks have been set up since our entry into the EU`?. Lets get our own territorial waters back so we can catch our own fish... the EU has put many UK trawler men out of work and fish companies have diminished in our country. We have to buy fish caught in OUR waters from EU countries because we don't get enough of our own. All grown food exported to the EU has to meet certain criteria regarding size and appearance. Each strawberry has to be a regulation size to go to the EU countries. Each cabbage has to be of regular size. Most other harvested crops are governed in the same way. We didn't have those rules before!!!! Do you care how big your strawberries are as long as you get good value for money?
Who are the people in Brussels who are NOT ELECTED and who make all the final decisions? Can you name one? NO because even our top politicians don't know who they are.
David Cameron has tried to win the vote by appealing for different groups at differing times to vote remain..... Parents, It's for your children! Students, it's for your benefit etc etc. What he has not done is laid out a balanced view of the good or bad of IN or OUT.................... HE!!!! wants us to stay in because HE and members of the Aristocracy will get richer whilst the people in general get poorer and governed by more rules from the 'invisible' people in Brussels

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 07:05 AM

No, it means take back control from a corrupt, and bureaucratic cartel.

Never thought I would see you openly supporting the interests of big business Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:01 AM

Radio talk show host Glen Beck suggests that Jo Cox was murdered by her own people. That this nut job was pointed at her in order to gain a sympathy vote to stay in the union. And that "If you think this stuff only happens in Jason Bourne Novels you are hopelessly naive".

But consider the source.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:09 AM

Jo Cox was murdered by her own people. That this nut job was pointed at her in order to gain a sympathy vote to stay in the union
Or maybe it was by Brexit campaigners, aiming for a double-bluff.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Stanron
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:09 AM

I'm convinced that David Cameron already has a nice cushy job lined up in Brussels. Big salary, loads of expenses and an amazing pension at the end (paid at least in part by you and me of course), all depending on him delivering a 'Remain' result.

And what makes it even funnier is the fact that he has the majority of the Parliamentary Labour party on his side.

You couldn't make it up.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:15 AM

None of you people have responded to the fact that the Brexit mob are heavily influenced by extremist right-wing, particularly racist policies

Not a fact Jim.
Just a ludicrous assertion from you.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:22 AM

"We Brits should stand together as Great Britain!."
The other side of teh Brexit coin - Little England.
The argument that those who take the decisions are "unelected" ia a myth - HERE IS HOW DECISIONS ARE REACHED
Much preferable to the Boris Johnsons and the Nigel Farages of this world.
Britain has no economic base any longer - Maggie made sure of that - its major export is money - that fact benefits only the already wealthy and is the cause of all Britain's problems at present.
If you want to appeal for the sake of our children, tell us where they can go to look for the work Britain is unable to provide when they can no longer look to Europe for jobs.
There is no answer to this question, which is why the whole Brexit campaign is based on racist xenophobia on a massive and dangerous scale.
Thought we'd buried all that with Powell
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:22 AM

Jim,
though you did get your fingers badly burnt on the Jo Cox thread with your tasteless, but very revealing intervention there.

You need to explain exactly what you mean.
What was wrong with my contribution, and do you think an obit thread is a place for a large cut and paste from a newspaper?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:44 AM

"Not a fact Jim.
Just a ludicrous assertion from you."


Keith - read as much as you can tolerate about "Britain First",
then consider the Brexit rhetoric that currently gives them a greater sense of purpose and legitimacy,
and likewise the tip of the Brexit iceberg that "Britain First" speak up for and represent....

Ideological and networking connections between the ultra far right wannabe militias and Boris's Brexit fan boy base,
are there for any reasonable objective observer to clearly recognise,
and in some regards as clear to see as a high powered searchlight... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:56 AM

" Not a fact Jim. Just a ludicrous assertion from you"

This seems pretty racist to most thinking people professor.

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/boris-johnson-profoundly-unhappy-farage-11503175

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 09:20 AM

"You need to explain exactly what you mean."
No I don't - you damn well know what I'm referring to (or you should), as do those who protested at your distasteful remarks
Your apologising for your behaviour must rank as a Mudcat first!
I'm talking about your casting doubt as to why she was murdered - and you know it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 09:50 AM

G.K.Chestertons apposite words:

The gallows in my garden, people say,
Is new and neat and adequately tall;
I tie the noose on in a knowing way
As one that knots his necktie for a ball;
But just as all the neighbours on the wall
Are drawing a long breath to shout "Hurray!"
The strangest whim has seized me. . . After all
I think I will not hang myself to-day.

Remember, there's no going back...

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Stanron
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 10:18 AM

And this could be the last lifeboat off the sinking ship for the next forty years.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 10:22 AM

If the British Film Industry still made Ealing Comedies
Boris would be the Ship's Captain who threw away the life boats, life belts, wireless, and rudder
because he was absolutely certain he didn't need them... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:29 AM

Well we have been beavering away for the best part of 53 years in the EU trying to reform it and what good has it done? It is still as corrupt, inefficient and unaccountable now as it was back then - So you can ignore "Call-Me-Dave" and the Remainers chant that we have more influence if we are part of it - truth is that it has been proven beyond doubt that we have absolutely no influence at all with regard to the EU - we just happen to be one of the mugs paying for it.

21 years now since the entire Commission was forced to resign - the Delors Scandal - and not once in all that time have those who run the EU been able to balance the books and account for the money they have squandered. Mind you that is an improvement over the Delors days when they simply made no attempt to do any accounting at all they ran the EU along the same lines that Louis XIV ran France with the citizens of Europe being required to pay into this bottomless pit.

Since 2008 UK economy has grown 6.8%
Since 2008 the EU's economy has grown 1.9%

Unemployment in the UK runs at about 5%
Unemployment in the Eurozone runs at 10.2%

And this is what the Remain Brigade want to shackle us to??

60% of all the rules and regulations put before the Parliament of Westminster come from Brussels, from nameless and unelected EU officials and bureaucrats. I happen to think that our Parliament and our civil service have got better things to do.

Scenes over in Calais of "refugees" and "Immigrants" stoning trucks and cars and causing all sorts of chaos, shouting "F**K Britain" while they attempt to stop traffic to force their way onto trucks to get across the Channel to Britain - BIZARRE isn't the word for it.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:35 AM

no going back...

No going back where Kevin? And who said so? I mean who said so that you could believe, who said so that had the authority to say that.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:39 AM

What I really have trouble understanding on the EU issue, is why people are trying to discredit Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and David Cameron over it. Please search for the facts and not the dislike of personalities.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:48 AM

oh... please don't include Cameron with those two...

He may be an old etonian tory, but for the moment he's our old etonian tory... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:50 AM

Jim,
I'm talking about your casting doubt as to why she was murdered - and you know it.

She was certainly targeted for her views, as was Trump.
There is doubt in that we do not know if the killer and would be killer were insane or just political fanatics.

Being the victim of such an attack is not an endorsement of the victim's views.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:54 AM

.. besides which.. It's Boris himself who's most of all turned this campaign into a pantomime of egotistical personality politics....!!!!! 😣

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:57 AM

Pfr, Brexit is a legitimate and respectable cause.
The fact that the far right seek to benefit from it does not de-ligitimise that cause.

Jim claimed, " the fact that the Brexit mob are heavily influenced by extremist right-wing, particularly racist policies "

It is not a fact that Brexit is influenced in any way by the far right.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:58 AM

Pfr, Brexit is a legitimate and respectable cause.
The fact that the far right seek to benefit from it does not de-legitimise that cause.

Jim claimed, " the fact that the Brexit mob are heavily influenced by extremist right-wing, particularly racist policies "

It is not a fact that Brexit is influenced in any way by the far right.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:00 PM

"It is still as corrupt, inefficient and unaccountable now as it was back then"
Sounds like any bank or financial institution you might care to mention.
How many of them have resigned - in fact we ended up paying them obscene bonuses to put right the harm they did.
"Unemployment in the UK runs at about 5%" and in that period
"Unemployment in the Eurozone runs at 10.2%"
This is a totally distorted comparison - Europe is not a single unit made up of different countries with different problems - Britain's 5% is part of Europe's 10.2% and not a separate comparable entity.
Europe's figure includes countries like Greece, with special problems which drive the Europe average up - they decided to stay in and attempt to solve the problem - the Brexit's want to do a runner - to where exactly?
This is typical of the distorted bullshit being peddled along with the racist garbage.
Leaving is more likely to drive up unemployment rather than to lessen it.
Britain can offer no extra jobs to those forced to come home.
"from nameless and unelected EU officials and bureaucrats"
More bullshit - you have been provided with an account of those appointed (from elected members) and how they are chosen.
They are selected exactly on the same basis the Prime minister, the cabinet and those serving on committees and enquiries are - on their ability and merit.
"Scenes over in Calais of "refugees" and "Immigrants" stoning trucks and cars and causing all sorts of chaos, shouting "F**K Britain"Scenes over in Calais of "refugees" and "Immigrants" stoning trucks and cars and causing all sorts of chaos, shouting "F**K Britain"
When there's nowhere else to go, there's always the racism to fall back on.
These are refugees and asylum seekers fleeing from wars and economic conditions we have helped to create - in our pursuit for slave-level produced good and oil and through our propping up and selling arms to despotic leaders.
We have a responsibility to these vicims of our greed.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:26 PM

Sayin' it twice don't make it so, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:38 PM

" Brexit is a legitimate and respectable cause."
The methods of campaigning for it are not - they are xenophobic bordering on open racism.
This campaign has even dragged fascist a fascist murderer and his supporter out of the woodwork.
"It is not a fact that Brexit is influenced in any way by the far right."
you've had the links to the FASCISTS tactics.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:10 PM

Jim, you claimed, " the fact that the Brexit mob are heavily influenced by extremist right-wing, particularly racist policies "

It is not a fact that Brexit is influenced in any way by the far right.
How would you support your assertion that it is?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:11 PM

No going back is blindingly clear. Even if in a few years what was left of the country applied to join again, and every single EU government was in favour, it couldn't be to the status quo. We'd have to sign up the the euro, Schengen area, no special perks. "Out' means out.

Whereas "remain", and if next year it looked like a mistake there would be a bsolutely nothing to stop the British government deciding to get out. They wouldn't even need to have a referendum, I think, just a majority of MPs thinking that was a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:12 PM

If the Brussels bureaucracy refuses to listen to the British public's concerns with a referendum gun held at its head by its second biggest contributor, what hope can there be that it will mend its ways if we vote to remain?

Now that is what I would call a good question.

The absolute mess that the Eurozone countries are in is shameful for an international organisation that claims to bring security and prosperity for all - Ask the youngsters in Greece, Italy, Cyprus, Spain, Portugal and France what the EU and the Euro have done for them.

"from nameless and unelected EU officials and bureaucrats"
More bullshit - you have been provided with an account of those appointed (from elected members) and how they are chosen.

Heh Heh if that is what you think that link of yours said then you Sir are a bigger F**Kin Idiot than I thought you were. Once again you prattle on about what you think it says not what it actually does say.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:32 PM

Here is what the late Tony Benn said at the last UK Referendum on Europe:

"I can think of no body outside the Kremlin that has such power without a shred of accountability,"

He warned that Britain was signing up for something that was undemocratic and run in the interest of elites.

No wonder Jom is all for "Remain".

Our ancestors shed oceans of blood to uphold and defend this country's right to govern itself, pass its own laws, raise its own taxes and — most pertinently — get rid of politicians when they abuse our trust. Why on earth should we now want to belong to a dysfunctional club that denies us these rights — a club with an imploding economy, pursuing a frankly mad policy of open borders which, if not checked, will lead to violence between the ugly left and ugly Right across Europe?

53 years we have been in this "Club" that fears free trade with the rest of the world and fears competition it says that if we stay we stand a better chance of forging deals with the world - Perhaps someone can explain therefore why in those 53 years the EU has failed to negotiate any trade deal with:

America;
China;
India;
Brazil;
Japan.

We could negotiate our own deals with any or all of those countries long before the EU could.

Vote LEAVE and let's get out and join the world.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:32 PM

"Well we have been beavering away for the best part of 53 years in the EU trying to reform it"

I don't think we have been. All the stuff about "reforming" the UK has been about the UK trying to negotiate variou sorts of special arrangements to suit it better. I'm not aware of any attempts by politicians from the UK to improve the way the EU operates for everyone.

I I'm not sure what efforts have been nade by others to oversome "the democracy deficit". But I'm pretty sure that any such would have been liable to be seen as edging towards a more federal system, and opposed by the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:41 PM

"It is not a fact that Brexit is influenced in any way by the far right."
Extreme right politics in the form of Xenophobia is Brexit.
Farage is a racist, Johnson is a racist, one of the leaders of the Brexit campaign has just been forced to resign because of her racist tweets - how could it fail to be influenced?
How would you support your assertion that it isn't?
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:49 PM

"Heh Heh if that is what you think that link of yours said then you Sir are a bigger F**Kin Idiot than I thought you were. Once again you prattle on about what you think it says not what it actually does say."

So much for the fancy that Jo Cox's murder might make foor more mutually respectful dialogue...

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 03:07 PM

"Once again you prattle on about what you think it says not what it actually does say."
And once again you studiously avoid responding to what is put up and fail to offer anything yourself, leaving us with the dilemma of deciding on the written evidence or taking your word for it.
With your rack record - no contest.
Would you buy a used car from a raving, right-wing, blustering bully because he said it was a good runner?
How long are you going to keep this up - nobody believes a ****** word you say apart from yourself - Keith doesn't count in his present state of mind.
Jim Carrol

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 06:04 PM

Mr Junkers has tonight stated that EU rules regarding the UK will NOT be reformed.

You are all voting on a false premise........Cameron lied when he said that the EU could be reformed.

So you are voting to retain what is there, a corrupt undemocratic shambles, which has ruined most of Europe and will eventually do the same for the UK.

Open your eyes and take a look at what is actually happening politically and economically all over the Eurozone.
Then go out and vote LEAVE.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 06:15 PM

The reforms the EU primarily needs are not "the EU rules regarding the UK". What would be good would be changes to the role of MEPs and the commissioners, and to the way legislation is initiated and agreed and modified - more clearly democratic institutions. And the arrangements about the banking system and so forth. And the way trade treaties such as TTTP get negotiated, and excessive and innappropriate secrecy.

Work in trying to get those changes has hardly started. And the prime movers in getting those kind of things won't be national governments, it will be transnational alliances of political movements.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 06:27 PM

Listening to politicians on the referendum trail talking about "voters still making up their minds" it struck me that in this case any making up their mind is by definition unsure about the wisdom of Brexit, and this should imply rejecting it, even if they aren't sure about Remain. The point being, Brexit is irreversable, Remain is essentially provisional.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 06:49 PM

So, when will we hear election results?
I like the idea of the UK being part of the EU. It makes travel easier by a lot. A unified currency would also help us travelers, but I can understand why an nation might not want to adopt the Euro.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 06:57 PM

We should have the result well before breakfast on Friday our time. So if you go to bed late on Thursday you might get it. If they bother to put it on the news.

I suspect we pay a lot more attention to your elections than you do to ours. (Not you Joe perhaps.)

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Stanron
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:06 PM

Joe Offer wrote: So, when will we hear election results?
I like the idea of the UK being part of the EU. It makes travel easier by a lot. A unified currency would also help us travelers, but I can understand why an nation might not want to adopt the Euro.

-Joe-

Do us a favour Joe. You might like the idea but we will have to live with the results. Do you actually understand what we who wish to leave see as the deficienties of the EU?

The results are expected early Friday morning UK time. I'm hoping for leave and I have no big fears regarding the consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:47 PM

Yes, Stanron, I actually do understand the pros and cons of the UK presence in the EU. Many Americans have far more international sophistication than you give us credit for.
Ease of travel is the primary issue that affects me directly, since I spend a lot of time in Europe and the UK. I won't take a position on other facets of the issue, because I see both sides.
BBC news comes on at midnight here in California. Sounds like I'll have a good chance of learning the outcome tonight.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:54 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow - PM
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 06:27 PM

Listening to politicians on the referendum trail talking about "voters still making up their minds" it struck me that in this case any making up their mind is by definition unsure about the wisdom of Brexit, and this should imply rejecting it, even if they aren't sure about Remain. The point being, Brexit is irreversable, Remain is essentially provisional."
REALLY, do you honestly think that you will get another referendum on the subject?, if the vote is Remain, which it will be.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 09:36 PM

Do you actually understand what we ... see as the deficienties of the EU?

Do you?

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 10:19 PM

If we actually ever do want another referendum we can get one. The same people who pushed for this referendum will do still be there determined to get another one. There are no constitutional barriers to that, and it is entirely a matter for this country to decide, and this will always be the case under the treaties that underpin the EU.
.............
Obviously those who want to see the Leave vote succeeding will be confident that everything will go well after leaving, Stanron, otherwise they wouldn't vote that way.

Those voting to Remain will be made up not only of those who are confident in the success of the EU, but also those who do not share Stanron's optimism about the inevitable benefits of leaving.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 01:36 AM

McGrath of Harlow - 22 Jun 16 - 06:15 PM

The reforms the EU primarily needs are not "the EU rules regarding the UK". What would be good would be changes to the role of MEPs and the commissioners, and to the way legislation is initiated and agreed and modified - more clearly democratic institutions.

Good heavens Kevin I do hope that that idiot Carroll reads that - today we have a chance to get out of a system that is clearly ruining Europe economically and one that you see as being undemocratic, unrepresentative and totally lacking in transparency - yet you will vote to remain - mind you having just read back through that it doesn't sound all that different to the UK Labour Party.

It would appear that you want an organisation that cannot produce a signed off audited set of accounts to oversee and control the European Banking System - rather like putting the fox in charge of the hencoop.

As for the way the EU negotiates trade deals, as I have previously detailed - they haven't negotiated any which is why the Eurozone is stagnating and under dire threat. Years of work with no result because collectively the EU is protectionist, against free trade with the world and scared stiff of competition, which is bad for us and bad for the third world.

The EU is secretive because it is hopelessly inefficient, corrupt and unaccountable.

Work in trying to get those changes has hardly started. And the prime movers in getting those kind of things won't be national governments, it will be transnational alliances of political movements.

Other than UKIP out bursts openly critical of the EU in the EU Parliament I would dearly like to see any evidence of anyone trying to get those changes of yours advanced. Political movements within the EU Parliament are powerless they have voice but no power or clout. The Commission has the power (The UK's last two Commissioners have never been elected to any office and had no experience in Government yet there they were at the heart of the EU making laws and enforcing them) not the Parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 01:41 AM

So, it's 0633 in the UK on Thursday, 23 June. I listened to BBC on our local public radio station, and the BBC reported that the polls were going to open - and I expected that the polls would have been closed for quite some time by the time I was listening. In the U.S., the news agencies would have called the election, often basing their predictions on 25% of the total vote. And oftentimes, U.S. candidates will concede to their opponent after only 25% of are counted.

I found a page titled How the BBC reports EU referendum polling day. Apparently, the BBC does not get into this crazy business of shoestring predictions. They don't report election results until they have a good measure of certainty.

It may surprise some of you across the pond, but many of us Americans think that other nations do many things better than we do.

So, I can wait for the election results. I think the BBC policy is a better way of doing things.

-Joe-

Dang. I post this on what I thought was Thursday night, but it was only Wednesday. Guess I have to wait another 24 hours. Vote wisely, friends.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 02:18 AM

Come on, fellow Brits of the more sane persuasion. Get up, vote early, vote often, VOTE IN!! 🇪🇺

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 04:03 AM

"Good heavens Kevin I do hope that that idiot Carroll reads that"
Yopur bullying, blustering and fascistt behaviour and Keith's attitude to the killing of Jo Cox is as good a reason as I can think of for voting to stay - confirmation enough that Brexit is firmly in the hands of right-wing extremists.
I'm interested to see that Joe, as an administrator, should visit this thread to post and not comment on your contemptuous behaviour towards other members, particularly as he was the one to bring up childish name-calling - seems like only yesterday that threads were dropping like flies - argument is one thing, persistent abuse is another.
I really don't wish to pester Max with a formal complaint as things stand at present but enough is enough!
Please put a stop to your permanently abusive postings - if you find yourself unabe to do so of your own volition, perhaps there is someone out there who cares enough about this forum to assist you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Stanron
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 04:18 AM

Wow.

Hi Joe. There would be no passport change for US citizens visiting Europe and the UK if the UK votes to leave. There is an area of Europe called the Schengen area where EU citizens can travel without a passport. The UK is not in the Schengen area. No visa is required for a visit of less than 90 days.

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 05:26 AM

Jim, I just can't seem to bring myself to be bothered by the likes of Keith and Akenaton. I've never been able to figure out what all the fuss is about. I'm the Music editor, and I don't do moderation work in the non-music threads unless it's a topic I want to keep open like the Easter Rising and the logic thread.

Sorry, but I just don't understand what's so bad about Keith.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 05:47 AM

let us clarify a few points, it is a myth about peace in Europe, we had a serbian croatian conflict[geographically europe] we have had an ongoing war in cyprus[ despite being in the EU. GREECE is a member, so there has been a war between a member state and a country[with a bad human rights record] which could well become a member.. Turkey.
if Trump gets elected and decides to start a world war, or if Putin decides to do this being in europe will make no difference.