BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 01:48 PM

Not till I have done my dastardly deed!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 01:42 PM

Unhand that woman, you cad!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 01:41 PM

Wow. Now I am with you Dianavan.

Big kisses :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 01:20 PM

I also agree that this was a PR stunt for the Iranian army and Ahmadinejad. Those phony confessions and the videos were made for Iranian audiences. I hope a diplomatic solution can be found.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 01:16 PM

Charley, he was asked what he meant by that at the time, and he said that he meant releasing the evidence he had, which turned out to be the Iranian's error of location, and the GPS location of the merchant ship.
Also the new phase turned out to mean approaching UN and EU.
There really have been no threats to use other than peaceful means. Some of our newspapers have attacked him for being weak and pusilanimous over this.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:41 AM

"Obviously Iran knows how to compromise"

!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:39 AM

Keith-

I must have misinterpreted what Blair meant by saying that if the the seizure of the British marines and sailors was not resolved quickly that things would "move to a different phase." British is not my native language, and some of its nuances escape me.

I do agree with Peace and Ron with regard to what triggered this incident.

I'm just concerned that the British don't reinforce the power of the Iranians who have engineered this "crisis."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:34 AM

"did in attacking"

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:33 AM

In fact it's exactly the same thing that Bush did it in attacking Iraq. The irony for Bush is that he actually was in better shape with the US electorate than he thought--there was widespread support for the attack on Afghanistan--even in the world at large. He just thought he'd extend his reputation as a conquering hero (in his mind). But somehow it appears to not have worked out.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:27 AM

I also mentioned the usefulness to the regime of a distraction--31 Mar 12:35 AM. I think Peace has it precisely right.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:17 AM

Then I agree with you, Ron.

The whole thing is just too, too, too, uh, pat.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 11:05 AM

Peace--

I certainly agree with you. In fact that's what I said 30 Mar 11:28 PM.

The incident is transparently an attempt by the regime to take Iranians' minds off their own troubles, try to make them forget about their discontent with their own leader, and provide an obvious common enemy--while visibly attaining the upper hand over that enemy.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 08:27 AM

Suleimani, pardon me all to hell and back.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 08:23 AM

Qassem Soleimani and Ali Khamenei. Names to remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 08:06 AM

Three weeks ago Iran had a strike involving over 100,000 people. Their economy is a mess and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's leadership is on the block. There are factions in Iran jockeying to take his place. So why does an incident that can 'take the minds of the folks at home' off the domestic crisis not come as a surprise? The whole thing is a trumped-up issue that will unite the people of Iran against a common enemy and allow their thoughts to stay off the crap economy and idiotic leadership in their everyday lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 07:51 AM

Dianavan, we have discussed the uncertainty of the line before.
It may not be something that either side would agree to draw on a map, butfor practical day to day purposes an unofficially agreed demarcation is kept to.
The Navy has been operating here for years now.
The Iranians have never before made a challenge or even a complaint.
It is not the Navy who started to make a big issue over where the line is.
The Iranians suddenly decreed that the boats had crossed the invisible line on the water and also suddenly felt so strongly about it that they captuerd boats and crew at gun point.
They also initially got the location wrong, or more likely right.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 05:41 AM

I heard on The ABC news that Iran had already charged the 15 with spying. The month of March had not yet finished at that time...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:41 AM

Charley,
"
I suppose if the British continue to escalate threats they may succeed in"
Britain has made no threats at all, and never even implied the use of other than peaceful means.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:14 AM

Richard - I have no idea what you are talking about. A specific quote would help.

Anyway - It looks as though Iran has offerred Britain an easy way out. Obviously Iran knows how to compromise, lets see if Britain can do the same.

"The Foreign Office also confirmed it had replied to a letter from Iran's Foreign Ministry. The Iranian letter did not ask for an apology, only a future "guarantee" not to enter Iranian waters. The British reply was apparently aimed at seeing whether that might provide a window for a diplomatic solution."

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/&articleid=303503

I think thats pretty generous, considering this bit of information:

"...Craig Murray, a former British diplomat and Foreign Office specialist on maritime affairs, said, "There is no agreed maritime boundary between Iraq and Iran in the Persian Gulf. Until the current mad propaganda exercise of the last week, nobody would have found that in the least a controversial statement."

"In postings on his Web site, www.craigmurray.co.uk, Mr. Murray referred to charts shown by the Royal Navy to reinforce its argument, saying: "The Iran-Iraq maritime boundary shown on the British government map does not exist. It has been drawn up by the British government."

Britain should have done the right thing and negotiated directly with Iran from the beginning. Instead Blair goes running to the U.N., the E.U. and big daddy in the U.S. He makes himself look very weak and totally inept as a leader.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 02:32 AM

Most men say what they believe to be true. If what you say above, Dianavan, about yourself, is true, it seems that you don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:54 PM

"Now let's get back to saving the British Navy"

'Just put it on the mantlepiece'

From the Goons by Spike Milligan...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: heric
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:41 PM

(sorry about that, bad joke over the internet is all. I do that a lot.) Now let's get back to saving the British Navy.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: heric
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:32 PM

okay that'll work!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:24 PM

Well, go figure. I thought we were friends. Maybe we are. ;^} Its impossible to detect your tone of voice. So, just to keep it all on an even keel:

You are a chauvinistic bastard !

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:24 PM

Dianavan, I have no wish at all to shut you up. However, I will not leave your consistent attacks on men to go unanswered. You may have your anonymity and all that, but the spreading of stereotypes and innunedo is just a cheap form of racism. You can wrap it up any way you want, but that's what it is.

"Peace - I know that not all men think alike. Thats a no-brainer."

If you mean that then why did you say the following:

"Men have several methods of silencing women when women say things men don't want to hear."

You want to be able to slag men when it's convenient yet be able to claim you are subjected to antagonism from men when a guy responds. Forget it. This type of argument is the same shit I went through with people who harbour hatreds of races and religions. I will have nothing to say to you from now on, but neither will I let posts like that go. Nice speaking with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: heric
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:14 PM

>>You ARE an antagonistic b**ch." - heric<<

?? I thought you were mad at me for saying that you WEREN'T!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:09 PM

Hmmm - I do not wish to turn this into a battle of the sexes but I will gladly point out one way men silence women when they express their opinion. "You ARE an antagonistic b**ch." - heric

I will also call your attention to the number of women who dare to enter a discussion such as this. Although not everyone can be identified by sex according to their name, I think you should look at the posting history of this thread. Maybe someone can figure out the appoximate number of women who are able to express their opinion openly without fear of being scoffed at. I am not trying to say that all women hold the same opinion as me but I am saying that not many even dare express themselves, regardless of what they are thinking.

Peace - I know that not all men think alike. Thats a no-brainer. I do think men can easily silence women with words. Some choose to do so, some do not, but I can guarantee that not many women lead with their chin, even on the internet. Why do you think that is?

Anyway if you want to start a thread about this, I will happily go another round. I may not be stronger but I am definitely faster and more agile (hey, maybe thats why I can identify with the Iranians).

Thanks to the internet, for the first time in my life, I can actually speak my mind without fear and you can't shut me up. You can, however, decline to read what I say if you want. Your choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:31 PM

"bomb Iran back to the stone age"

History says the people of Iran did pretty well then... one of the leading creative world forces...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:23 PM

Those whose seemingly rational outer demeanour conceals a hidden inner desire for revenge, bloodshed, and mass murder (and such people exist in Iran, Britain, and America, as well as elsewhere, including on this forum) will secretly be quite pleased by this crisis. They will hope it leads to the bloody conflict they secretly desire and that it causes a very high death count among those whom they have labelled as "evil". I hope they are all bitterly disappointed in that expectation, and no conflict happens, and the British sailors are returned none the worse for wear, and life goes on.

But I wouldn't necessarily bet on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 09:45 PM

Charlie: No one on this thread IS advocating that.

memyself: You have a great sense of humour.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 09:39 PM

"Men have several methods of silencing women when women say things men don't want to hear"

Can someone tell me just one of those methods? Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 09:32 PM

I suppose if the British continue to escalate threats they may succeed in getting the 15 sailors and marines killed by an angry mob. I'm surprised that the British haven't pursued a more patient strategy. Does anyone seriously think anything positive will be accomplished by trying to bomb Iran back to the stone age? There don't really seem to be a lot of options here other than patience. Why run the risk of generating more sympathy for Iran from Islamic people all over the world?

Learn something from our (US Coalition of the Willing) brilliant success at regime change in Iraq. We are hardly more loved or respected, within or beyond Iraq, for our efforts over the last 5 years.

I do wish that more of the folks at Mudcat who have had military experience would demonstrate a clearer understanding what can be accomplished by military action. What can be accomplished appears to me to be very little, and much more likely to make things worse.

However, if the Iranian Navy captures one of our lobster boats off the coast of Maine, I'll advocate blowing 'em out of the water!~

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 09:04 PM

"Men have several methods of silencing women when women say things men don't want to hear"

SOME men. And there are women like that, too. You repeatedly attack ALL men because of some you seem to have had a rough time with. Stop hanging around with that kind of men.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 08:57 PM

"You ARE an antagonistic b**ch. No one could fake it like that."

Thanks, heric. I have now been redeemed. I must admit I enjoy being anonyomous on the internet because I can, in fact, say things that I would never say face to face. Men have several methods of silencing women when women say things men don't want to hear.

I don't want a war over this any more than anyone else. In this case, I think that Iran has felt sufficiently threatened in the last year or so to be alarmed by the presence of the British Navy so close to their shores. We see a similar reaction when human beings are bullied and threatened on a personal level. The victim will often let the rage build to a point of boiling over and doing something that is unexpected and it is usually harmful. Do I need to give examples?

There seems to be an inability for many on this forum to be able to put the shoe on the other foot. Do you think Iran has been immune to what is happening in Iraq? Don't you think it would be frightening if a war was raging in the country next to you? Don't you think you would ally yourself with people who shared a common language and religion? Why would you expect anything else?

What I don't want to see is Britain trying to prove they are 'right' by killing and maiming innocent, Iranian citizens. It is so much easier to swallow your pride and negotiate a release than getting all puffed up and starting a war. Whats the point?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 08:54 PM

The bastards can afford to pay terrorists and try to create fissionable material. This is Iran today. The civilized and peaceful people some of you laud. The ones who know juuuuusssst where the Brits were.

"Iran - Teachers' Norouz Present. This Year....."Brutal Crackdown"
Mar 21, 2007

The authorities in Iran have arrested up to 1,000 teachers in a brutal crackdown that signals their determination to break a pay revolt. Riot police beat demonstrators with batons as they tried to gather outside Iran's parliament and education ministry and herded them into police vans and buses before transporting them to detention centres across Tehran."

That is from this site.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: heric
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 08:35 PM

" . . . an Islamic headscarf as she told Iranian television, 'Obviously we trespassed into their waters. They were very friendly people.'"

I can't get this out of my head. It must sound ridiculous no matter what language it is translated into. This is not a language issue. It makes the Iranians in charge seem cartoonishly stupid, or cleverly cruel as they enjoy something that can only be intended as humiliation.

Of course the Iranian people are not, as a whole, cartoonishly stupid.

Now might be a good time to rent some excellent Iranian DVD's, such as Children of Heaven

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:43 PM

Don't Attack Iran! Release the Sailors!
The seizure of the British sailors by the Iranian navy is a deliberate piece of coat-trailing by the Iranian regime. They are flexing their muscles.

That they feel safe in doing that is one measure of the weakening of the USA as a results of its setbacks in Iraq and Afghanistan, and those wars' byproduct of a comparative strengthening of Iran, which now has dominant influence in western Afghanistan and southern Iraq.

We have no idea whether or not the British ship was in Iranian waters. If it was, it shouldn't have been. No matter how far inside Iranian waters they were, the ship could hardly have posed a threat to Iran.

Teheran had, and has, a choice about making an "incident" out of it.

Not very long ago the prospect of a US attack on Iran seemed to loom very large. That the Iranians have chosen to make an "international incident" out of this episode, indicates the comparative strength they now feel against America and Britain, weakened by events in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is, however, possible that the clerical fascists who rule Iran have miscalculated. The Bush regime is capable of responding with air raids, if not, for now, with an invasion. We should strongly oppose such attacks.

The USA is bogged down in Irag and Afghanistan. When it got bogged down in Vietnam, in 1970, America struck out wildly at neighbouring Cambodia, which was a base for their Vietnamese opponents.

They bombed Cambodia "into the stone age".

Bush and his gang may calculate that a "strong" response to Iran now would help them overcome Bush's opponents in the US Congress, who have just voted to set a one-year deadline for US withdrawal from Iraq.

The religion-crazed Christian fundamentalist US President and his entourage, and the religion-crazed Islamic clerical fascists who run Iran, are equally capable of wild and irresponsible deeds.

No socialist should have any sympathy with the Iranian regime, which has sparked this crisis, just because their enemy is George Bush and the American state.

This is a brutal and reactionary regime, which has recently rounded up and jailed hundreds of teachers — the exact number is not known — for daring to go on strike.

We oppose attacks on Iran because of our solidarity with the peoples of Iran, not because of any solidarity with the Iranian regime.

No to an attack on Iran! No to the clerical-fascist regime!


That is from here.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:35 PM

I noticed that when the suggestion that the US might offer to release the five Iranians it arrested in exchange for the sailors, the sailors were referred to as captives rather than hostages. Presumably to avoid referring to the Iranians who've been banged up by the Americans as "hostages".

There's no reason to think that the Iranians are at all likely to kill the sailors. Their biggest risk is being killed in some daft rescue attempt or military reprisal, in yet another variety of death by "friendly fire".

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:15 PM

Those thousands of dead Iranians would be great consolation to the parents of the fifteen dead seamen, I'm sure ...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:06 PM

This has all got all got way out of hand.

One - It would never have happened in Thatchers day.

Now - I would demand that the Iranian Government within 24 hours releases our servicemen and return their equipment full and intact. I would call on the United nations to back up that demand, because the ONLY reason that those British sailors were there in first place was because they were backing up a United Nations Security Council resolution. Failure to comply would mean that a state of war exists between the the sovereign State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and the sovereign State of Iran. To all of those who have started to laugh, consider this, the UK is perfectly capable of waging this war Iran is not. This is the tight-rope that Iran knowingly treads. The basic fact remains that should the shit hit the fan, the most that Iran can do is is kill 15 British Servicemen, Britain on the otherhand can obliterate the whole of Iran - Their call.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:50 PM

I'm saying, heric, that when a country does something like detain some sailors or soldiers from another country in a border area, they always say that they were justified because the other guys were trespassing. The Iranians in the actual incident probably fully believed the British were trespassing. It may have been an error...by the British...or by the Iranians. If so, neither one will want to admit publicly that they made an error. This sort of thing happens. People's pride gets in the way of finding agreement, just like it does on this forum in these discussions.

And you and I are in no position to decide who made an error or who is lying, are we?

Accordingly, I see no particular reason to take political sides in the matter.

When I was saying was that when we take people prisoner they are not called "hostages" by the media. I was just pointing out a peculiarity of human psychology...because one person's hostage can be another person's legitimate prisoner when it comes to politics. It just depends whose story you believe, that's all. Our media will NEVER call a bunch of Iranians that we take prisoner "hostages" (whether they truly are or not).

That's what I was drawing notice to. Certain words are used in the media to charge people up and get them mad. "Hostages" is one such word. It's not necessarily an appropriate word in this case, because this is a squabble over a purported border violation.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:21 PM

"Brinkswomanship"? Hey, I'm pretty liberal but you've gotta draw the line somewhere ...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: heric
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:19 PM

>>heric - I am not suggesting that countries should not attempt to devise international protocols and laws. I am suggesting that this situation is not worth starting a war over. Period.<<

Okay then. Nothing to talk about.

I did, however, see you write this:

>>What the Iranians do is like what we do. They don't call people they arrest "hostages". We don't call people we arrest "hostages". It's the same self-serving rhetoric on all sides, as far as I can see. Everyone thinks it's the other guy who is in the wrong. <<

If Americans made a military incursion across the border to "arrest" some lumber executives for price-fixing or something, then held them in Guantanamo pending lumber tarriff negotiations, I don't think you would say "It's all the same, arrest/kidnap, potatoe/potahto."

dianavan: Yes, I'm sorry and I regretted it afterward. You ARE an antagonistic b**ch. No one could fake it like that. I don't know what got into me.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:16 PM

You guys are beating your heads against a wall. Dianavan is the type that would have justified the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor as having been made in self defense because the US had no business installing a base that close to Tokyo.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:54 PM

True, LH. The problem with increased tensions is that people and countries cross lines and often there is NO way back. The old saying: It's easy to grab a raccoon by the tail. But then ya need ten people to help you let it go. One day the brinksman/womanship will take the world to the edge, and the good fortune of 1962 will no longer be with us all. Makes a guy want to sing, because there's jack-all else a guy can do.


Oh, you playboys an' playgirls
Ain't a-gonna run my world
Ain't a-gonna run my world
Ain't a-gonna run my world
You playboys an' playgirls
Ain't a-gonna run my world
Not now or no other time.


I first learned that song from Gil Turner. After all these years and all these wars, a guy'd think we'd know better by now. Fuck, I really wish I took drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:38 PM

heric - I am not suggesting that countries should not attempt to devise international protocols and laws. I am suggesting that this situation is not worth starting a war over. Period.

You'll recall that the Israelis went to war awhile back, ostensibly over the kidnapping of 2 Israeli soldiers. Well, that resulted in the deaths of several thousand people in Lebanon (and some more in Israel), about 160 more Israeli soldiers in combat, and the destruction of a lot of property on both sides of the line, and it did not achieve any of its objectives, and they did not get back the 2 Israeli soldiers.

A big mess, in other words. A lot of people lost loved ones for absolutely nothing.

What could happen now because of the arrest and detention of a handful of British sailors by Iran would be a far bigger mess. I'm advising against that. I'm saying not to fight over it.

Peace - I am not particularly suggesting that the Iranians are righteous. ;-) (I'm sure they think they are righteous, but I am not suggesting they are.) You say that it is about Iran using 15 people to make a point. Yeah, that's right. Best not to overreact to their point, in my opinion. They would be smart not to start a war. We would likewise be smart not to start a war.

Of course, you or I can't do diddly about it, can we? It's not our decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:21 PM

"A woman from Iraq and a woman from Iran and would solve this in a minute."

Not sure what the woman from Iraq has to do with it ... but anyway, I'm reminded of the closing line of The Sun Also Rises: 'Yes, isn't it pretty to think so?'

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:13 PM

Tony Blair and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are men?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:03 PM

...because I think women generally solve problems differently and because they do not let testosterone govern their thinking. This is clearly a territorial dispute and the leaders of both countries are handling it like the male species in the wild. Its all about pride and territory. A woman from Iraq and a woman from Iran and would solve this in a minute. The children would be returned to their mother one way or another.

Thatcher is woman???

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Rasener
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 05:01 PM

If the Iranians are not your friends, why are you so insistant that they are in the right. have they got you under guard as well ?