BS: Definition of 'square' !

Subject: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:01 PM

British tv personality Angela Rippon was once asked if she liked any modern pop songs. "Yes" she replied, "as long as they've got a jolly beat". Can anyone top that for the "squarest" thing you've heard. Btw, what is the current popular word/term for "square"?

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: kerryguy7
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:02 PM

A hole with four corners attached.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: autolycus
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:10 PM

Andre Preview was once asked what he thought of pop music. He said something like,"That's a question I've rather been avoiding for years,but I'll say it.

"I HATE it."

   At the time (about 12 years ago),I tended to agree. I've had a mild heart attack since,which loosened me up.

   Is it too square to ask if it has to be so rhythmically boring and harmonically conservative and so dependant on gimmicks?






       I.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Forsh
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:15 PM

I just don't know daddio, cas I'm far out man & way to hip.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:59 PM

What pray tell is "a jolly beat"?

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,Joe Moran
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:05 PM

Peace: Ask Angela! She obviously knows it when she hears it!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,Ken Brock
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:17 PM

I recall a reference to "square" as "L7" in some media 40+ years ago.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 06:21 PM

At some point there'll be a stage when people say "square" when they mean "hip", and "hip" when they mean "square".

After all, the key thing with slang has always been to confuse outsiders, and to define insiders.

Incidentally "Yes" she replied, "as long as they've got a jolly beat" may register as a very square way to put it. But it's still what sells records. Or perhaps these days it should be "what prompts downloads".

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 07:47 PM

"...what is the current popular word/term for "square"? "

Here's some words from African American cultures:

Something, or some situation or some one who is square is
"lame", "tired", "weak", "played out", "old", "nerdy", or "white bread".

Some people still use 'jive' {which is a negative now} but that term isn't used as much as it used to be {among 35 and under Black people-according to my experiences, and observations and those of my daughter who is in her early thirties who shared this opinion with me and helped me add words to this list}.

Obviously, some of these terms have been co-opted by {taken up, become part of} mainstream America.

-snip-

Here's some "current" * words & phrases to describe something, some situation, or someone who is not square:

"bad", "mean", "awesome", "hot", "smokin", "burnin up", "the bomb", "blew up"; "phat", "righteous", "tight"; all that", "all that and a bag of chips", "off the chart", "off the hook", "off the chain", big" {as in "got big"} ,"large" {as in "livin large", and "the shit".

I guess "the shit" must be the ultimate 'bad' means 'good' word...though maybe its basic meaning is that it is basic, 'for real", which come to think of it is another term of praise for the un-squared persons, things or situations.

It should be noted that "to bomb" is bad {bad=bad} but "to be the bomb" is very good. [Note how: the 'old' 1960s term "dynamite" morphed into "the bomb", which connects to "blew up" which connects to "got big" which connects to "living large".

There's a method to this madness.

Imo- among most African Americans, the words 'cool' {or "cool and the gang"}, 'groovy', 'hip', and 'fresh' were 'played out' {retired}' a long time ago.

It seems to me that on the whole, White people keep using slang terms much longer {waaaay longer} than Black people do. However some old African American slang from 19th century or earlier such as as 'bad' {multiple meaninds, but I was focusing on the bad=good meaning} cool, hot, smokin, bombed, the bomb {also multiple meanings}meaning a number of different things, 'hot' , and 'smokin'. "Cool" is also still being used as in the command "Cool out"

*Of course "current" doesn't mean that these words are newly coined or that these definitions of these words are a new development. In most cases, I don't think these words or these particular meanings of these words are all that new. In this post I'm defining "current" to mean that these terms and phrases have been used in the last five years or so.

But many of these terms were being used by some African Americans in hip hop and other circles at least 10 years ago and probably a number of them have been retired and replaced with other terms.

See urban dictionary.com for other contemporary slang that comes from or has been associated with African Americans.

[I just upgraded to Internet Explorer 7 and I can't find the copy paste cut icons which is a real drag {"drag"- a slang term from the 1960s or so which means something that is definitely not good}.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:02 PM

Azizi,
You are something else. That's great.

Now, back to square one!

As Lenny Bruce said, "We need the squares; they run the subways!!!"

Art

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Bee
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:44 PM

"We need the squares; they run the subways!!!"

But, trust me, not the trains, at least in Maritime Canada. I know several engineers, three of 'em are musicians, and one has a beautiful singing voice, and they all know how to make a party happen.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:49 AM

The London Subway System is the most hip place in the world - just look at all those "Way Out" signs!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:15 AM

In a forum devoted to tradition, we now call The Underground a "subway"?

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:30 AM

Of course White people use each slang word longer/later than Black people do. Where do you think we got it in the first place? By the same token, we're never quite sure when it stops being 'cool'. *G*

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Dave Masterson
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:03 AM

'A jolly beat' - sounds like something the Laughing Policeman would be on.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:12 AM

As the mother of a 13 year old, I'd like to contribute "scene".

In other words, if a band used to be really underground and cutting-edge, but now they've gone mainstream and get lots of radio airplay, they're "scene". "Scene" can also mean a poseur: somebody who dresses in a particular non-mainstream style but who isn't perceived to walk the walk, and listens to the mainstream bands instead of the real, proper, cutting-edge ones.

example: "Look at her. She thinks she's SOOOO Emo in her stripey socks and her eyeliner, but she listens to MyChem and Fallout Boy. She's so scene."

This will usually be followed by a group of the accusor's friends shouting "Scene! Scene!" at the accused from across the road, which may be followed by a standoff between the Emos and the Scenes, before they all repair happily to Subway or McDonald's to drink coffee and look bored.

And that, my friends, is youth culture in Britain 2007.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Jeanie
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:19 AM

When he used to come to stay with us, my grandpa always very much enjoyed watching "Top of the Pops" - this was in the days of "Pan's People", dancing wearing next to nothing, so there's the reason ;) One time, Donovan appeared singing "Mellow Yellow", and grandpa made the wonderful "square trying to be cool" comment:

"Aha ! Here comes young Tommy Richards playing his mandalay."

(I decoded this from grandpaspeak to mean Cliff Richard playing guitar).

Judging by various embarrassed or mortifed looks given to me by my daughter over the years at things I have said, I fear I may also have had my "mandalay moments" myself !

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:33 AM

Watching 'American Chopper' on the box, I heard Pauly describe something which (I think) he admired a lot as 'Sick.'
"Thats really sick, man!"

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,IB48
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:45 AM

ANYTHING SAID BY RICHARD MADELEY

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: MBSLynne
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:57 AM

In my teens I loved various kinds of music (as I still do, of course), and while I loved the Beatles, Herman's Hermits etc, along with my contemporaries, I also listened to classical music, unlike most of them. I was often called a square, and my reply, which I was quite proud of at the time, was "The people who will only listen to one type of music and condemn others are the squares". I still stand by this definition. And I still love current pop music as well as classical and, of course, folk along with almost all other types of music

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:05 AM

I always hated fashion even when I was young. It will always baffle me why anyone would want others to think that they are a part the latest fad.
I can't recall his exact words, but Quentin Crisp once remarked something like,"Style is knowing what you are and being able to purvey. Fashion is simply not being able to decide what you are."

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:07 AM

Well Angela Rippon probably was used to having sex to music and the jolly beat helped her get the right rythme.

I'll get me coat and beat it to the square.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:49 AM

Perhaps this commentary will clarify the issue:

"The British Square

(thing) by Schmik (6.4 mon) (print)                 ?                 Thu Mar 01 2001 at 22:10:27

During the 18th century the great fear of infantry was a cavalry attack. If the horsemen charged infafantry from the front, they could probably be driven back with gunfire. If the cavalry managed to attack from the flank or rear, the infantry could be cut down and slaughtered.

The tactic devised to oppose a cavalry attack was the square. In this formation an infantry regiment would draw up in a square with men on each side facing outwards.

From whichever direction the cavalry attacked, they would be met by a hail of fire. The problem was that on the field of battle, cavalry moved much faster than infantry. For the square to be effective, the infantry had to form square at a momen't notice.

The redcoated British infantry were amongst the most highly trained in the world. Time and again enemy cavalry would charge forwards, only to find that the British rapidly formed square before the impact.

The greatest victory of the British square was at the Battle of Waterloo After many hours of heavy fighting, the French Marshal Ney led a massive charge by 5,000 cavalry against the weary British. The British regiments hastily formed square and drove back the ferocious French assaults. Soon after, the French army broke and fled."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:54 AM

'"The people who will only listen to one type of music and condemn others are the squares"' -

You didn't tell us whether that statement did the job of convincing your friends that you WERE actually hip/cool/groovy, while they, limited to the Beatles, Herman's Hermits etc, were, comparatively, square.

As for me - I'm convinced!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM

'Mandalay moment' - lovely. Ought to get in the dictionary - sorry,a dictionary - double-quick. It's not quite the same thing as a senior moment.

   'Mandalay moment' - yes,when I'm older,I'll self-describe as having an m.m. (not the ones you peel !!!






      I.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Bert
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:16 PM

You can find "A Jolly Beat" on the Eurovision Song Contest.

You're right about Waterloo, Charley. One of the things that really demoralised Napoleon's troops was that, when they overran one square there were only two men left standing, all the others were killed or wounded and the two men left were still in position and firing.

Napoleons guys had never met discipline like that before and realised that they couldn't win without killing every one of the enemy.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:58 PM

So - Napolean's guys were hip ("they overran one square"), and Wellington's were squares?

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:59 PM

To be fair to the French, many of their units also fought to the last man, when they could have surrendered honourably. Waterloo was indeed a fascinating battle, for which Wellington had really done his homework. Certainly the discipline of the British riflemen had everything to do with the final result. Even Wellington admitted that it had been a pretty close thing though.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:39 PM

Educated, and refusing to have your opinions and tastes dictated by moronic media.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:44 PM

Man, what a square!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:27 PM

Quare?

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:45 PM

I suppose a "blockhead" would also be a "square" unless he slipped and hit his head on the corners. Then he might become more dodecahedral.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 06:50 AM

Alanabit wrote

"Quentin Crisp once remarked something like,'Style is knowing what you are and being able to purvey. Fashion is simply not being able to decide what you are.' "   

Yes! - or do I mean "wicked!"?

Someone else (or maybe it was Crisp again?) also described fashion as "an alternative to style for people with no taste". But my preferred definition is an economic one - "fashion is a device to make us buy new clothes before the old ones are worn out."

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:07 PM

Perhaps the earliest published appearance of "L7" as a synonym for "square" is in the second verse of Sam and the Shams' "Wolly Bully":

Hattie told Mattie
[???] take a chance;
Let's not be ell-seven,
Come on and learn to dance;
Wolly Bully, Wolly Bully

Also, not too many years ago, I think there was an American rock band ~ maybe an all-girl band, if I'm not mistaken ~ called "L7."

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:10 PM

Hattie told Mattie
Don't you take no chance
Don't you be L7
Come and learn to dance

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:49 AM

I have been forced to conclude that anything I do, wear or enjoy is square. Once I do it, it's out. I've learned to live with it.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: MBSLynne
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:04 AM

Guest, meself, I don't know whether they were convinced, but it shut them up!

As Hughie Lewis and the News said "It's hip to be square" (or Sesame Street "It's hip to be a square")

I was a trend setter anyway...when I started at my new High School half way through first year (aged 12) the uniform included royal blue blazers and berets. No one wore the berets, but I've always been a hat person and particularly liked berets so I started wearing mine. By the end of my first term there, everyone was wearing them. The problem with that though, is that 'fashion' catches up with you and even if you are the only one doing something, when everyone else starts to do it too you end up being fashionable. So I stopped wearing my beret. I hate to be like everyone else

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 10:08 AM

I've never been into fashion trends, and I remember being told, when I was around 21, that the lapels on my jacket were too wide - or was it too narrow. Anyway, that revelation didn't bother at all as the whole fashion thing didn't interest me, however I must concede that such an attitude can work against a person socially.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 10:55 AM

Re: the beret fad. I have to admit, you're starting to sound pretty hip!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: MBSLynne
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 01:52 PM

:-)

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:51 PM

Azizi's Guide to Contemporary Slang rocked so hard that I offer the following Guide to Key Combinations in return. Your problem: "I just upgraded to Internet Explorer 7 and I can't find the copy paste cut icons which is a real drag"

The following 3 key combinations will do you a world of good, even in many situations where you allegedly CAN'T copy (no right-click, no icons).

Ctrl + c is the key combo for copy.
Ctrl + v is the key combo for paste.
Ctrl + x is the key combo for cut.

1. Highlight the area to be copied, press the Ctrl button on the keyboard, then the c key (continuing to hold the Ctrl down). Let go of both keys. The material has now been copied.
2. Place the cursor where you want to paste the copied material, press the Ctrl button, then the v (works like a little "insert" mark), and hey presto!

To cut out text, instead of copying it, use the Ctrl + x combo.

In the end, these shortcuts also save time - it's quicker this way than hunting for the icons.

Way Cool!!!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 04:02 PM

I could do with a good definition of square too. Last time we tried to dance an Eightsome reel, our square ended up with 9 sides and 15 people....

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 04:27 PM

Thanks, Guest.

I appreciate the compliment and also appreciate your
"Guide to Key Combinations".

That info is way cool, square business *. Though cutting, pasting, or copying the old fashioned, manual way is only quicker if you keep on hunting like I was doing instead of scanning the URL {or what ever that action is called}, then right clicking, and then
-glory be! -those features will come up.

A comcast serviceman shared that info with me when he came to check out why my broadband connection would periodically bump me off the Internet

After the 7 service call, hopefully I won't see that dreaded red x
"a local cable is disconnected" message again.

I still don't have the cut, copy, and paste icons.

But hey, you blog with the icons you have, not the icons you wish you had.

;o)

*"Square business" was a common colloquial response way back when among folks in my 'hood and elsewhere. I think this was in the 1990s, or maybe it was the earlier 2000s.

"Square business" means "really and truly". It was used hen a person said something and wanted to emphasize that she or he wasn't shuckin or jivin, but was being telling the truth or being 'on the up & up".

I think this phrase comes from "being on the square" or some other folk saying like that which means being solid and dependable.

Another positive use of the word "square" is "square meal".

Unfortunately, too many square meals make a person well rounded.

:o)

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 05:06 PM

Emo is so Chav. Straightedge and hardcore is wey-heyfest. Heard at a metal gig about a year ago.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 05:31 PM

UK - wicked evolved to sick, to Ill (man that tune is Ill) (a tune generally doesn't have a tune by the way) Ill has been replaced by Nang ...

Which makes Spike Milligans "ning nang nong" about the hippest poem around ...


Perhaps a more useful war reference might be that of Alexanders Advance on Rome in what is now Italy.

Alexander was hopelessly outnumbered by the Roman infantry who formed a massive square which ground relentlessly forward like a mighty mincing machine.

Alexander lured it into a trap so that he could attack the flanks with his pikemen, his horseborne archers took out what little roman cavalry there was, and then harried the rear, and the infantry were able to mop up the rest.

A better informed war historian will be able to correct the innnaccuracies and fill in the gaps but essentially, the Romans were as square as it gets, while Alexander was really pretty nang!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: bobad
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 05:48 PM

French speaking Quebecers call English speakers "les têtes carées" or square heads, I wonder if this harkens back to Waterloo.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Peter Pan
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:31 PM

Four equal side is what I learnt at school to be a square, or that of someone who was a bit pompus.

peace

pp

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:52 PM

Four equal sides with right angles.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:57 PM

Two adjacent equal sides seperated by a right angle opposite another right angle is sufficient. :-)

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 12:40 AM

Yep. Or, four equal sides containing at least one right angle.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: smileyman
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:01 AM

Speaking of Napoleon:

It wasn't just the discipline of the British troops that did him in. Due to the heavy rain the night before he did not have time to put 54 of his heavy cannon into position, and they were pretty much ineffective throughout the battle. No rain, and the story might be completely different.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:09 AM

That's the way it goes. You always need luck to win anything, but skill, leadership and discipline never harm your chances!

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:20 AM

Or pretend you're in the olympics and bribe a judge or two.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:31 AM

B...S.... B...S.... B...S....

You should pour ashes on yourselves....Apologize, Apologize, the eagles shall come and pluck out your eyes.

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:34 AM

Yopu are on the wrong thread. The one you really wanted to post that on is "Subject: BS: One compelling reason for a god?"

Subject: RE: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:36 AM

Where is a CLONE when you need one?

Tippsy - drunk under the table?

Unable to control the switches to prevent ABOVE and BELOW "the line" from colliding?

Chaos, fire the clones, or pay them more to stay awake.

OMG - just imagine in three weeks - shame full!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Mickey191
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 12:08 PM

Commercial on TV-a teener is talking on the phone and says "That was so BOOTLEG." What do that mean??

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: fat B****rd
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:12 PM

Crap sound and photostated cover ?

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 03:29 PM

A "square" is an "ichabod" (someone who is icky), a "stoopnagle", a "rube", a "dumb-bunny", in African-American talk, an "ofay" which is probably related to oaf, a "peckerwood" (again African-American, a "hick", a "lamebrain", a "mark" (easilly taken advantage of), "fair game" (Aussie or Scientology), "out of the loop", ....these for starters

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 07:25 AM

A number multiplied by itself?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 07:53 AM

Richard, Emo is Anti-Chav!

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 08:10 AM

A square is whew tanks run over peasants.

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:57 PM

Stringsinger {and others},

Although I added 'white bread' to my listing of slang words that had the same or similar meanings as square, that addition was supposed to be tongue & cheeky.

Actually, 'white bread' is more an adjectival term than a noun, or at least that's how I've seen it used. "Bland", "unadventurous", and "unexciting" are equivalent terms for "white bread". That phrase basically means a person who stays with the same oh same oh and doesn't attempt to do anything outside of the norm {white bread being the norm-which actually isn't true on a lot of different levels}.

As to race and squares, there are Black squares as well as White squares. And there are other color squares as well.

Some folks probably consider me a square, and I would agree sometimes.

All this to say, I want to retract "white bread" from the list of words that have the same colloquial meaning as the word "square".

Also, in my opinion, "ofay" and "peckerwood" don't really fit the list of slang referents that mean square either.

A square might be an ofay {or a peckerwood} but an ofay or a peckerwood doesn't have to be a square. He or she could be more "on top of things" than a person who is not an ofay or a perkerwood.

**

As to the origin of ofay, see this information from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ofays

"o·fay(f)
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a white person.

[Possibly of West African origin.]
Word History: The commonly seen etymology of ofay, Pig Latin for foe is of less interest than the more likely story of this word's origins. The word, which is first recorded in the first quarter of the 20th century, must have been in use much longer if it is, as some scholars think, borrowed from an African source. Although this source has not been pinned down, the suggested possibilities are in themselves interesting. One would trace it to the Ibibio word afia, "white or light-colored." Another would have it come from Yoruba ofe, a word that was said in order to protect oneself from danger. The term was then transferred to white people, regarded as a danger to Black people throughout the wretched days of slavery and beyond"

-snip-

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/peck provides this theory about the origin of the term "peckerwood" as a referent for poor White people:

"Peckerwood (1859) is U.S. Southern black dialectal inversion of woodpecker (q.v.); in folklore, taken as the type of white folks (1929) and symbolically contrasted with blackbird."

-snip-

The woodpecker's red comb on the top of its head links this referent to "redneck", another African American derogatory term for White people, presumably because their necks got red while working in the outdoor sun.

**

My apologies if these terms offend anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 06:43 PM

"Some folks probably consider me a square, and I would agree sometimes."

No way! I won't have it!

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 09:51 PM

A square is a formation of troops intended to resist attack by cavalry (as at Waterloo and many other battles) or by large masses of poorly disciplined and not very well armed melee infantry (as in the case of the British army fighting against the Madhi's men in the Sudan or the Zulus in the Zulu war). The square formation masses firepower in all directions and prevents the men in the square from being outflanked or attacked from the rear. The weakness of the square is that it is particularly vulnerable to both artillery and massed fire of muskets or rifles.

The Romans also used the square for the same general purpose and had an even more advanced formation called "the tortoise" to protect against showers of arrows and other light missiles. The square itself was somewhat vulnerable to such ranged attacks, presenting a target that could hardly be missed, so the tortoise was intended to remedy that problem by covering troops above and on all sides with their large rectangular shields. The problem with the tortoise was that it was tiring to maintain for long, and it made the formation less effective at attacking and moving about. It was a good way to approach closely to an enemy who were very strong in archers or slingers.

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 10:37 PM

Little Hawk,

the Roman Tortoise had limited effect against the Gauls, as Asterix documents... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 10:42 PM

Don't talk to me about Asterix! I detest that pestilential little prick Asterix and his idiot friend (the fat one) with a passion. I hope a giant menhir falls on them both and squashes them. They should be thrown to the war dogs. That comic stinks. It's a travesty. It's repetitive, boring, cliche-ridden, and useless. It's not as bad as Cheech Wizard, but it still stinks to high heaven. The Romans would have cleaned up Asterix and his pals in about 2 minutes flat, without even getting short of breath in the process.

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 10:47 PM

"That comic stinks. It's a travesty. It's repetitive, boring, cliche-ridden, and useless. ... The Romans would have cleaned up Asterix and his pals in about 2 minutes flat, without even getting short of breath in the process."

I know that - but that's why I love it... :-)


"Cheech Wizard"

Don't know this one, sorry...

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 10:52 PM

I guess you like the running joke thing in that one, eh? ;-)

I just can't stomach a tiny little bunch of wisecracking Gauls forever beating up the whole Roman army. The concept annoys me. I never liked Mighty Mouse or the Road Runner for the same basic reason.

I prefer confrontations where you never know for sure who is going to win. I can't stand a rigged game.

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 11:43 PM

I feel sorry for the loser - that's actually a very Aussie thing - 'sympathy with the underdog' - and it gets hilarious during election campaigns when both sides try to pretend they are the underdog! very different from US politics, where both sides try to pretend they are each the toughest ball clanker!

Wile Coyote (not the RR!) is my favourite - I think that Tweetie is the personification of evil!

My favourite Asterix character was the little guy with the green cloud around him who could walk thru a tent and as he left those inside would be in a punch up!

Those poor pirates never could take a trick either - especially they time they attacked Ceaser - who gave them that guy as a slave - the next frame shows the pirate ship sinking, as Ceaser sails away!

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 11:48 PM

"I prefer confrontations where you never know for sure who is going to win. I can't stand a rigged game."

Ha! Sounds to me like you just hate the underdog - clearly you're on the side of Big Business - get'm, boys!

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 11:52 PM

"the little guy with the green cloud"

I meant to add, that I have actually met real people lke this!

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 02:47 PM

You have gotta be KIDDING, "meself"???????!!!!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE the underdog. I hate "Big Business". That's why I hate Asterix, Mighty Mouse, the Road Runner, and all such phony characters who are in a comic where it's set up so that they ALWAYS win. It is the Romans who are the underdog in the Asterix comic for Christ's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gimme a fuckin' break....

If it was a realistic historical show about Romans and Gauls, THEN I would begin feeling some sympathy for the Gauls because then they would really BE the underdogs. Get it? And either side would have a chance of winning too...there would always be that possibility. Like I said, I just hate a rigged game. I want to be in some doubt about who may prevail. Otherwise, what's the point? Where's the drama? Where's the heroism?

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 06:16 PM

"Like I said, I just hate a rigged game"


Life, eh?

Just gonna kil yerself now, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 06:25 PM

Apropos of what? I don't consider this life to be a rigged game. This life ends up being exactly what you or I or anyone else makes of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 06:33 PM

Like I said - get'm!

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 06:37 PM

You're having fun at my expense, I presume? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 06:46 PM

Aw, shucks - you caught me out -

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 09:00 PM

At a job I had in the early 1970s, my African-American coworkers referred to a cigarette as a "square". "Give me the shorts on that square." meant "When you've finished smoking that cigarette, don't throw it out. Give me the last couple of drags."

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:41 AM

Quite a while ago I asked someone {another African American} why he thought that we called cigarettes 'squares'.

He told me that cemetary plots are square, and since we also call cigarettes 'cancer sticks', calling cigarette 'squares' fits.

This is as good a reason that I've heard than any other one.

Actually, the only other reason that I've heard for this colloquial term is that the packages that cigarettes come in are square- well, they're almost square.

I wish the reason was because the general consensus was {is} that only 'squares' {un-hip people} smoke. But I don't think this the reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:48 AM

I don't think this is an African American term. When I was in the service, over 30 years ago, it was a common term for a cigarette.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 08:08 AM

"cemetary plots are square"

Nope - they're rectangles

"the packages that cigarettes come in are square- well, they're almost square."

they're rectangles too...

Subject: RE: BS: Definition of 'square' !
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 10:53 AM

Before filter-tip cigarettes came to dominate the market, cigarette packs were almost square. And the packaging process does flatten the round cigarettes a little. making them look a bit squarish in profile. I also got the impression "square" was used to distinguish packaged cigarettes from home-rolled. Dunno where I got that notion, though.