BS: What Survival foods?

Subject: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,Eater
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:12 PM

I want to set aside a supply of emergency food for myself and my family, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Any suggestions? I live in the U.S.

I was thinking of the dehydrated kind, but then I ran across freeze dried food, so the decisions already begin. Does anyone know what the difference would be between freeze dried and dehydrated?

Any advice from experience or any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,worker
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:17 PM

What kind of disaster(s) are you expecting?

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:19 PM

And how long are you planning for? A "72 hour" kit is quite different from a supply for a year or more. And where do you live?

One size doesn't fit all.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:19 PM

beer...

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,Eater
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:20 PM

Just disruption of food delivery. If food can't get to the markets, I'd like to have some back-up.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:22 PM

Having food available is part of the issue. The other part is having water. There are many, many things to consider. Amongst those things are caloric intake vs caloric necessity; nutrient values; ability to cook the food you do have; water to cook it with--water that is safe; heat you'll need; shelter; what it is you think you need to be prepared for; length of time you will need the food supply.

There are too many factors for you to 'start from scratch'. There are some sites that will help you make decisions. Here is one.

http://www.zyz.com/survivalcenter/index.html


You will get many suggestions and most of them good. However, IMO, reading is step one. That site has a good basic overview available for a few bucks.

Best to you and your family.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:23 PM

Plant a garden.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:23 PM

Sorry. Didn't see your post, eater. The site I linked to is a good place to look.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:26 PM

Canned food is usually good for several years. Be sure to check the "use by" dates. Some are coded though, so ask the store manager.

Since you'd be sitting at home and you don't seem concerned about water or power interruptions, I'd get a mixture of canned and freeze-dried. At home you should have space to store them.

A vegetable garden would be a good idea as well. That would give you fresh veggies in the warm months.

Concentrate on what you and your family likes in the way of food. Vitamin supplements should be included, and DON'T forget to rotate your stock.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,Eater
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:40 PM

A 2-year supply for 3. Water will soon be taken care of with a solar or hand-pump well. We're going to look into gardening seed kits and may lay out the garden area but don't know when gardening would begin. Having the seed and tools and space prepared is in the planning. We have plenty of defensive weapons but could use a varmint and a hunting rifle, for fresh meat. Vitamins are going to be the first thing we stock up on, when we find a half-price sale.

I went through this years ago on a small scale, but nothing like what I'm thinking of now.

I'll look at the link.

Thanks all.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:44 PM

If things are that desperate, you'll need more than just food. You'll need some way to protect that food. You seem to be contemplating a complete breakdown of the social order.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,worker
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:50 PM

I suggest you form a cohesive gang. Seriously. When social order breaks down it would be difficult trying to protect and feed a family on your own.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,worker
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:54 PM

I got that gang idea from reading an interview with Kurt Vonnegut. He was talking on that very subject on how to survive when all social order breaks down.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:55 PM

I believe I still have a five-gallon bucket of soybeans and a five-gallon bucket of lentils out in my toolshed. A friend give them to us when she moved away. She had gotten them from her in-laws who had bought them during the Y2K scare. I've tried both. They suck.

I'm sure dried beans would be a top choice as survival food (assuming you have fuel for cooking), but buy varieties you actually like.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:58 PM

Read the novel, "Lucifer's Hammer" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:02 PM

If you don't know how to use firearms well, don't get them. If you do know how to use them, I suggest something like this. A .22 will get you small game and you can store a lot of ammo for a small cash outlay.

If you want something bigger, get a 12 gauge shotgun, perhaps a pump like a Remington 870. A 12 gauge slug will know down any large game in North America and the shot shells can be used to take ducks, turkeys, and other birds.

But I repeat: do not get firearms if you don't know how to use them and aren't willing to learn IN ADVANCE. And if carrying a gun will make you feel 8 feet tall, covered with hair, and invulnerable, don't get one -- you'll get yourself killed if you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,worker
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:07 PM

In the event of a complete breakdown of social order, I'd consider one of these.

required protection in a Brave New World without order

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:14 PM

Another sugestion is to look into making a root cellar - very handy.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:28 PM

Ask the local Mormons. They're required to keep a years supply on hand and should have some expertise.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:51 PM

Assume a complete breakdown of social order. Your rifle is mine, because you won't see me before I kill you and take it. But assume that I don't get it -- do you know how to reload your own ammunition? Do you know how to safely store rifle powder and primers? Do you know how much powder to use? What weight bullet gives the best performance? Most importantly, however -- do you know what to do when you run out of material to reload with, or when you reach the point that the brass cartridge cases are no longer safe or usable?

Assume a complete breakdown of the social order, I'd rather have one of these superweapons. Silent, deadly, and simple -- but you do have to learn to use it.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:58 PM

Crossbow is easier to learn in a short time, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:17 AM

With practice, an experienced long bow user can have several arrows in the air before the first one strikes the target at 100 yards.

For close ranges, the Traditional English Longbowman also carried a sword.... :-)

Actually, I'd recommend training in Escrima, or Kali... any stick can be deadly in trained hands, and with Cacao Canette's techniques, you also understand empty hand techniques at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:53 AM

The rate of fire of the old English longbowmen--with accuracy--was close to one every five seconds. The machine gun of its time.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:12 AM

Anyway if storing canned goods dip them in wax. A drop of bleach for a one gallon jug of water helps too.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:51 AM

Speaking of bows, a musican friend of mine is a 'good ol' boy' from Arkansas. He is BIG, not only in height but in girth. His wife is about 5' 6" and normal sized. They go to an archery range every week and he says she is better with the bow than he is, even though he has been shooting much longer than she.

I'm of two minds - or more - about going into survival mode. I remember Ike Eisenhower wrote in connection with nuclear war that if the time came that everyone around him had died he wouldn't want to live either.

Juneau, Alaska, is vulnerable in ways that is not true in less isolated places. If planes weren't flying and no barges or ships were coming up from Seattle we'd run out of groceries, gasoline and other commodities quite quickly. Although we could still have electricity- we have hydropower and it is self-sufficient, not on a grid.

Hmmmm. I went to check on the State of Alaska Emergency Preparedness information and I found this:

"State of Alaska Threat Level
ELEVATED

National Threat Level
HIGH
For commercial aviation operating in or destined for the United States

Alaska Cyber Security Alert Level
GUARDED

Is this directive new?

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:19 AM

If you're planning on sitting out an emergency in your regular living area, the usual recommendation is that you find the storage-stable things that you normally use, and simply stockpile - and rotate - your normal supplies of the more durable items.

If there's a possibility of having to move with all of your supplies of course the requirements are immensely more difficult to meet; and many of the things you'd want to have in a mobile emergency cache wouldn't be things you're likely to integrate into your regular diet.

Debates about how to "defend" or "supplement" your cache with weaponry need to consider that the knowledge, experience, and likely physical condition of the user play a tremendous role. A longbow is of little use if you can't draw it (as with a sprained wrist or elbow) and even a few years can be the difference between "prime-of-life" and stumbling invalid. (voice of experience?)

Don't forget the can opener - even if you're not stocking many canned goods. You may need to forage.

Simple first aid and medical kit need to be considered, but if you're past "prime athlete" age note that many prescription drugs have extremely limited shelf life - relative to what you might need.

Suitable clothing in good repair should be part of the stock, but - a year or two of reduced circulatory efficiency can change your boot size by two or three increments, so maintaining and updating the store has to be considered.

Basic tools such as saws, hammers, knives, jacks, prybars, rope and tarps should be considered.

And DON'T FORGET the CHOCOLATE. (for trading purposes even if you don't care for it).

John

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: gnomad
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:24 AM

Freeze-drying is a method of dehydration. If you are buying dehydrated goods there is a good chance that some of them, e.g. instant coffee, will have been done this way.

I have not heard of anyone freeze-drying at home, though if you want to see the effect in action just leave an unwrapped piece of food [maybe a bread bun] in the freezer and observe how it becomes desiccated.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:05 AM

I had the thought long ago, when I was in my teens. In the event of a complete social breakdown, I decided that I'd need a social skill that I could sell (Music?) and crafts like building a loom, carpentry, tanning, blacksmithing, woodsmanship, veterinary medicine, dowsing, etc. It depends on where you expect society to regress to. Tribal-Hunter/gatherer, farming/husbandry, pre-industrial or early industrial. Or total savagery.
That was just to teach to the next generation. I thought such knowledge would help to keep me alive.

The first few years would be the nightmare, with starving and savage gangs from cities trying to get food from the countryside. Farmers would have to murder almost everyone who came up the pike.

Tins of pork/spam and beans would keep you alive for months, and the sort of bread that you twist around a stick and bake over a fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Megan L
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:53 AM

Move somewhere safer!

But not Orkney we have enough idiots here already :)

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:04 AM

But isn't Orkney going to be buried under 200 feet of ice?


:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:09 AM

Use a bow to extend your supply of ammunition. If you want something intermediate, get a flintlock -- not a rifle, but a smoothbore musket like a reproduction Brown Bess. That way it can double as a shotgun, and will fire a slug out to about 100 yards with fair accuracy. If you must, you can make your own gunpowder (See "Foxfire 5").

But if you must hunt for survival, try traps, snares, and deadfalls instead of weapons that fire projectiles.

Nothing here is simple! You either learn it beforehand or you can't use it -- it's not on the job training.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bee
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:30 AM

Store cases of tinned sardines. They're a highly nutritious whole food, and double as fishbait.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,GI Joe
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:44 AM

Try the following sites
Emergency.com
Ready..gov
Fema.gov
Survival-center.com    very good
disasterlinks.net
knowledgehound.com
Backwoodshome.com    this site is great lots of free info they put out a fantastic magazine worth every cent..,by the way the "pull date or use before" doesnt mean anything food that is canned will last for years it may not taste as good but as long as the can is not puntured to allow bacteria to enter it will keep.
also water will be your biggest problem. As to ammo stick w/ a calaber the is easily avalable   .22 223 7.62 and practice practice practice    Get involved w/ your local gun club lots of like minded people there.   as to Shot gun stick w. 12 0r 20 ga.
the backwoods home site has most of their articles avalable on line

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 01:31 PM

What do you know and where do you live? If I'm nearby I think I'd like to move. . .

I have a rotating supply of canned and dry goods in a cupboard that will last for several days. I keep gallons of bottled water, and it's time to start rotating all of that stuff again. I'll pull it out of the cupboard and use what was stored before it is too old to use. And I'll replace it with canned goods, meat, veggies, and fruit, and pasta and beans. I always try to keep a couple of extra bags of flour as well. My house is well-stocked already, but this is an extra buffer (for in case a tornado hits the area, for example, and it takes a little while to be able to get to the store).

I have a couple of options for cook stoves, I have a large yard, live near a wooded area with lots of wildlife, my back yard abuts a year round creek with fish. I don't think I'd want to drink it, so I'd have to get a heavy-duty filter of some sort.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: MMario
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 01:35 PM

twinkies. research has shown they survive just about anything

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:13 PM

Or you could study to discover all the reasons the social order might break down,work out the ways to deal with the problems that might lead that way,see what several million others have come up with on the same subjects,and do what you can to maintain a humane ,human,viable sort of world.

i await the emails resulting from the deliberations,and meanwhile some of the time,that's what I do anyway.


"Do whay you can , where you are, with what you've got."

             Roosevelt senior


You might even consider communal as well as individualistic solutions to your problems. That's what Rockefeller,Carnegie,Gates, Ford et. al. did. Only they called them employees.







      I.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:50 PM

SRS is right on the money--keep a buffer supply of the things that you use regularly--with extra emphasis on drinking water(three or more weeks supply, with extra for cooking)--

Even if civilization doesn't end, the power can go out, whether due to a storm or just administrative stupidity--so think about how you're going to cook the food--

It is also worth thinking about how you're heat the place, and how you'll access all that important info you keep on the computer--

Keep in mind that, in times of emergency, gas for that all terrain SUV may be a a little dear.
An old fashioned bicycle basket, which you can make one of the numerous bikes we all seem to have in the garage(and a tire pump), a handy thing for running errands and shopping--

Though some of you seem eager to kill your friends and neighbors at the earliest opportunity--generally, when confronted with catastrophe, people work together--civilization, in the final analysis, does not require technology--it merely requires that people recognize the need to cooperate--

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:57 PM

Hear,hear.




      I.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Megan L
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:59 PM

Fools my dear with me around the ice wouldn't dare approach you should know that by now :)

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:48 PM

W-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-hat are y-y-y-y-you saying?






       I.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bert
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:02 PM

Flour, dried yeast, rice, a variety of pulses, dried eggs if you can find them, dried mashed potatoes, lots of spices to make those lentils and soy beans taste good.

This season's dried peas, mung beans and other beans for sprouting.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bee
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:46 PM

Social order needn't break down for people to need emergency stores. Power out after a hurricane or ice storm for two or more weeks, stores closed, some roads closed, drinking water hard to find, are scenarios that happen all too often. After H. Juan taught me a lesson, I keep several weeks stores cycling through my cupboards, plus extra drinking water, propane, camp fuel, charcoal, lamp oil(kerosene), batteries, one of those 'shake' flashlights, and I keep an eye on the status of the first aid kit.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:02 PM

We have "72 hour" kit for the house, and we can load it into the car in a flash. We're in a seismically active area, have a MAJOR nuclear lab to the northwest, and are subject to blizzards on occasion.

Frankly, I doubt that the social order would collapse all at once. Over a period of some years, perhaps, but it won't be a sudden thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Grab
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:10 PM

Hang on. You say you're protecting against "disruption of food delivery", but then you're talking about 2 years' worth of stocks? Those two statements can't both be correct, unless by "disruption of food delivery" you're talking about a complete breakdown of all national forms of transport for that long. But the only thing which could cause that would be an attack from some WMD - nuclear, chemical or biological - such that the country's transport infrastructure was irreparably damaged and all senior people (political and military) who could do something about it were dead.

It's certainly possible to plan for a post-apocalyptic scenario. But that opens the question of how likely you consider the apocalypse to be. Most apocalypse predictors are clinically paranoid. You might not be, but the odds are on the other side... :-/

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:28 PM

It"s OK for you people in the USA, as you can pick up a rifle or a shotgun , as a human right, from almost anywhere, but we are completely oppressed in Britain, and nobody, and I mean NOBODY,gets to own a shotgun, or ( even less likely ) a rifle, as it is illegal here to defend yourself against an attack by an aggressor ( In case you hurt or injure them ,thus infringing their "human rights " ).Crossbows and longbows are out of the question also, for the same reason---in fact, they are also banned, as are Bowie-knives and even baseball bats !!! YES folks, you can be arrested and jailed in Britain for having a BASEBALL-BAT in your car, in case of attack by muggers or hijackers, as it would be a serious crime to hurt them in ANY way !! Can you believe that ?? It"s TRUE !! In fact, if my girlfriend is caught with a pair of scissors , a pointed comb, or,God forbid, a pocket knife ,in her handbag, she goes on trial for being in possession of an Offensive Weapon !! Really !! So the only thing we can hope to do is to attach a kitchen knife to a broomstick with sticky-tape or string, and hope that our attacker has a heart-attack , or trips over his shoe-laces, as he rushes at us !! So there is no point in getting in "emergency supplies" in Great Britain, because we would not be allowed, by law, to prevent anyone else from stealing them from us !! If we WERE foolish enough to hurt someone who attacked us,or our loved ones, then we would immediately be arrested or shot by any Police or Army personnel who were still in control . THAT"S what it"s like to live in modern Britain, under Tony Blair and his crooks !! Shit, isn"t it ?? Why on earth do we put up with it ?? Enjoy your freedom, America------We who have none, salute you !!

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:43 PM

Fresh from the Hash Browns thread, it occurs to me that, if you are going to grow something, it should be potatoes. They are highly nutritious, an acre of potatoes yields enough to feed 10 people, and even a marginal farmer can grow them. They keep well, too, and, if push comes to shove, you can use them for ammunition in a Spud Gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:47 PM

"twinkies. research has shown they survive just about anything "

... including attempted digestion...

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,thebanjoest
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:47 AM

When the shit hits the fan it will help you to have resigned yourselves to be ready to eat anything from roaches to your fellow man. That's survival food my friends, all the other suggestions are just a way to temporarily to set back the inevitable.

Things like beans, lentals, and many of the other suggestions are bad news. You need fire, with fuel and lots of time and water to cook them. Than just won't do with people like me ready to take your food away when you've cooked it and then me being ready to kill you and eat you. Other than that....

Peanut Butter is good.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Grab
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:05 AM

nobody, and I mean NOBODY,gets to own a shotgun

Must have been hallucinating when I saw those people clay-pigeon shooting, then. Or farmers out after rabbits.

as it is illegal here to defend yourself against an attack by an aggressor

Since when?

A couple of years ago I was on a jury for a guy who provoked a fight (but didn't throw the first punch). He was getting the worst of it until the other guy fell over and buggered his leg, and the guy on trial kicked him in the face once while he was down, not knowing that he couldn't get back up, and consequently was had up for assault and ABH. We had absolutely crystal-clear instruction from the judge that if we believed this guy thought he was still in danger, what he did was entirely justified and we had to vote not guilty. Conversely, if this guy knew the other guy was down and staying down and was putting the boot in out of malice, we had to find him guilty. The jury was split pretty much evenly so we had to return no verdict, and it never came up again in the papers so I guess the CPS dropped it.

I'm afraid I'm legally not allowed to say which way I voted. But I can say that when I was doing karate, my instructors were quite categorical that you don't just slap someone and hope they stay out of your way afterwards...

In fact, if my girlfriend is caught with a pair of scissors , a pointed comb, or,God forbid, a pocket knife ,in her handbag, she goes on trial for being in possession of an Offensive Weapon

That's fiction not fact.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM

Well, Graham, that"s OK then !! One knife, one comb ( steel, pointed ) and one pair of very long scissors going in Annie"s handbag today !! Yes, I know about legally-held shotguns, ---I held a shotgun certificate for many years ,but gave up in the end, as the Police started to make it so much hassle----MUST have somewhere to shoot( even thoughh this wasn"t "law" ) ---MUST have a certain type of gun safe to keep them in----MUST have a valid reason for wanting to hold so many cartridges ( again, not legally valid, but how many Chief Constables give a toss about the "law" ??) --MUST register each individual shotgun !! MUST keep guns and ammunition in different safes ( Again, not enforcable, but you get the picture----the police, and the State ,do not want ordinary British citizens,who might pop out to get the odd rabbit or pigeon, to own ANY sort of guns, if they can help it !! ) So I was trying to tell our American friends how VERY VERY different state oppression is over here to over there. What I SHOULD have said was that,in Britain" Nobody, but nobody, gets to own a handgun " Is that alright with you, sir ??
Finally, old chap, ----If you haven"t read , in the last few years, about the huge numbers of people who have been prosecuted, and in some cases jailed, for hitting,injuring ,and in some cases killing , intruders in their own homes,when in a state of panic ,fear, or dread ,as I imagine you would be, & who through age or infirmity have not been able to overpower their assailants using martial arts,or hypnotism, then you can"t have been reading the newspapers much !! Just you wait until YOU bash a burglar ,and see what happens !!!