BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?

Subject: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 12:31 PM

I gather you had a self imposed power cut in Sydney earlier today. Will this have the same effect as the big power cut in NYC many years ago, a sudden surge in the birth rate 9 months hence?

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: freda underhill
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 12:50 PM

we were singing, Giok, singing and listening to beautiful music, as it was, is and ever shall be, world without lightbulbs, amen.

It was the 20th anniversary of the Solidarity Choir at a local town hall.The Solidarity Choir was formed in 1987 to sing Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika at the Sydney Town Hall as part of the Civic Welcome for Oliver Tambo, the then-exiled President of the African National Congress. During the blackout, we listened to Ecopella, and when the lights came on the amazing "Voices from a Vacant Lot".

you can hear samples of Solidarity singing here ..

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: freda underhill
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 01:01 PM

and why were the lights out?

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: JennyO
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 01:10 PM

For those who don't know what this is about - the hour between 7.30pm and 8.30pm here in Sydney tonight was designated Earth Hour, and here is one report about what happened.

It was most appropriate for Ecopella to be singing at that time, as they are a choir that sings about environmental issues.

It was a fantastic night, with many past and present members of the Solidarity Choir seeing each other for the first time in years. We sang our hearts out, with union songs, and many of our old rousing favourites that we haven't sung for ages. It was amazing to me how the words of some of those songs just come back, just like we sang them yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: JennyO
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 01:12 PM

Oh good, freda. While I was composing my post, you picked one of the links I saw but didn't link to. Glad we didn't double up!

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 02:16 PM

What a lovely idea!

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 08:00 PM

I read about this on google news and thought the same, LH, what a wonderful idea. I hope it DOES catch on around the world. I read that the energy saved was twice what they'd expected, 20% instead of 10%.

Nice to hear from you, freda and Jenny, about it and your lovely singing. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:38 PM

Actually, us Brisbanites know that Sydneysiders have been in the dark for ages...

"Queensland - Beautiful one day, perfect the next!"

We'll that was before we started to run out of water, what with all those damn Southerners moving up here to drink it!

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:53 PM

Actually, even the organisers keep saying that this is really more of a symbolic thing to get people talking.

Why - technical reasons of Science and Engineering mean that very little CO2 would be saved for that one hour - sadly.

You have to burn the coal to make the steam well in advance of any given point of time that you want to spin the turbines to make the normal amount of "electrickery". So you have already released the same amount of CO2 'as normal'.

You have to burn the coal to make the steam well in advance of any given point of time that you want to spin the turbines to make the normal "electrickery" that will be used back at the normal amount' once people switch the stuff back on an hour later - or else you will get massive 'brownouts' cause the system now cannot handle the heavier load.

Incidentally, it has been calculated from those signing up, that the actual 'instantaneous dip in demand' will be less than when everybody gets up from the TV football during an ad and boils the kettle, etc.

So the coal is still being burnt at the same rate, the stem is still being generated at the same rate, the turbine are still spinning at the same rate - cause their speed determines the 50 cycles per second mains frequency.

The only difference is that a lower load (and incidentally less income - thus a loss!) is being taken. This means that, at best, the engineers crank back the electrical feedback control to dump excess energy in the system so as to not cause the generators to explode - but the same amount of CO2 is generated.

The time lag in the system between burning the coal and getting the electrickery out is probably at least an hour.

Any old sailors who served on Steam powered warships here? You will understand. In order to steam at 'full throttle' - flank speed, or whatever, you have to have spent an hour or so stoking the fires to get the boilers working to have sufficient steam pressure .... :-)




So don't get too excited over just one hour - as the organisers themselves have said on radio and TV - it is mainly symbolic...

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:13 PM

Still, Robin, a neat idea. And, I keep our house as dark as possible, always. Why is it that it seems men can only turn lights on, not off?

That is my experience anyway. He turns them on, leaves the room or house, I turn them off. I do admit it's the other way round with the thermostat...I turn it up and forget to turn it down. He turns it down.

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:39 PM

So what if everyone did it once per week on a consistent basis? Or, at set hours each night?

My cousin who lives in Albania only has electricity available for a few hours each day and it's never the same hours. Someone must be conserving something somewhere, right? Or, maybe it is lack of fuel which causes that. I'll have to ask him the why of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:44 PM

Actually, Sorcha,

nearly 30 years ago I bought several GE CFLs (the beaut glass 'shell' made great holders for tea light candles after they stopped working!) - they were nearly AUD$30 each then! - and I only run the lights I need now - and switch off most things that I don't need - I am aware of the 'standby current draw' of things like TVs, etc.

I choose which ones I want on standby (and my bill is quite low) - turning on some items that have a 'standby' setting can cause them to have a 'surge' that may decrease their life if turned on and off at the wall - some new TVs have a setting whereby you can 'fade on and off' instead of a hard switch on and off - this protects the picture tube and increases life.

Nowadays I no longer run the kitchen light all the time - I grew up with the concept that a house was not a home unless there was a light in the kitchen, and that mental sedative thing was hard to break...
:-)

BTW, CFLs are useless if you only switch them on for less than 20 mins to an hour - they take up to 20 mins to get full brightness - depending on the room temperature - and cycling them too short can reduce their life massively - to less even than a normal incandescent - so they are not cost effective for many uses. 'LED' lights are also not economical yet.

A good technical article in the latest 'Silicon Chip' magazine refutes much of the nonsensical pseudo-technical garbage spouted about 'saving electricity'...


Incidentally they are also trying here to get people to use under 200 litres of water person per day - my water bill says I average about 30 litres a day.... :-) (since I stopped watering outside)

Subject: !)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 12:14 AM

I tore an article out of teh paper recently cos of the title

"Savings on fluoros are not so bright"

A bloke with a lot of time on his hands (& perhaps some techo aptitude) opened up one of those new whizz0bang energy efficient globes.

What he found was "a treasure trove of sophisticated silicon circuitry.

One twisted fluoro tube
5 plastic capacitors
one large electrolytic czpacitor
two silicon power transistors
five silicon diode rectifiers (told ya he must have had some tecxho abiloty

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 12:22 AM

There's also a couple of coils - that Silicon Chip article explained the typical technical guts. And those cheapie Chinese ones that burn out real quick - I had one go only the second time I switched it on - so i took it back the next day with my receipt! - they often skimp on the quality of some of the components (putting a 15c one in, instead of a 20c one), especially the high voltage capacitors, and that's what dies first with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 12:23 AM

to continue & spellcheck!

I tore an article out of the paper recently cos of the title

"Savings on fluoros are not so bright"

A bloke with a lot of time on his hands (& perhaps some techo aptitude) opened up one of those new whizz-bang energy efficient globes.

What he found was "a treasure trove of sophisticated silicon circuitry.

One twisted fluoro tube
5 plastic capacitors
one large electrolytic capacitor
two silicon power transistors
five silicon diode rectifiers (told ya he must have had some techo ability!)
one silicon signal diode
five resistors
one small transformer
one small inductor
one large inductor
one fuse
one printed circuit board & solder to hold it all together".

His conclusion - very expensive to make & as it's heavier than old globes, more costly to distribute, too.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 12:30 AM

"silicon power transistors"

More likely to be JFETs... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 07:18 AM

...................................
"silicon power transistors"

More likely to be JFETs... ;-)
...................................

picky, picky, picky

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Sydneysiders, was it better in the dark?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 05:35 PM

Actually, I meant MOSFETs...

:-P