Folklore: 'Uglies'

Subject: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Uke
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:10 PM

Hi all,
I'm doing a bit of research into singsong-type music traditions (at the pub, party, back of the bus) and it strikes me that in their sometimes free-for-all chaos they could be compared to what is commonly called an 'ugly' in folk club/festival circles.

Would anyone care to hazard a definition of what an 'ugly' is? And why it is called an 'ugly' - ugly sound, ugly sight (?). Is it that they're just not 'beautiful' like a well-crafted stage performance?

Lastly does anyone recall when this term first appeared?

Cheers

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Peace
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:16 PM

I've never encountered the term in that context.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:18 PM

Perhaps songs accompanied by an Ugly stick?

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Uke
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:21 PM

Hi Peace
Yes, that's been my experience too - the term seems specific to folk clubs and folk festivals - a big singalong or playalong that happens on stage at the end of a concert. Other music festivals or concerts often have similar finales (like in the film 'The Last Waltz') but they're not called 'uglies' in that context either.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Uke
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:22 PM

Hi Bee-dubya-ell
That 'ugly stick' sounds rather like what is called a lagerphone in Australia and New Zealand.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Peace
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:23 PM

Uke, are you in the UK?

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Uke
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 08:25 PM

Hi Peace, No I'm in New Zealand.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: rich-joy
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 09:29 PM

Uglies (I don't think this is the actual spelling though) are popular as a finale, unaccompanied, harmony, singing session, down in Oz - particularly in Darwin, Northern Territory.

I know Mudcatter "Tony in Darwin" has explained the derivation to me before, but my Pooh-Bear brain has conveniently mis-filed the data somewhere!!!

Maybe one of the other Northern Australian 'catters could help here ...


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Uke
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 10:29 PM

Hi R-J
Thanks for the info! - Perhaps 'an ugly' is an antipodean term and not used by the rest of the folkie world. I'm not sure whether 'Peace' (above) knew of the term at all. We here in NZ may possibly have stolen the concept from you Aussies! Perhaps Bob Bolton could throw some light on this, if he's out there...
Cheers

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Peace
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 10:51 PM

I have never heard the term applied to festivals or music in the context you put forth. I'm in Canada, but I did live in the US for five years and was a bit involved with music and some festivals.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: GUEST,Tony in Darwin
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 11:44 PM

rich-joy, I used to spell it UGLE and postulated that it was an acronym for Unaccompanied Group Liaison Ensemble.

But I was only joking!

Sorry, Tony

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: rich-joy
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 12:08 AM

Aahh!!! Thanks Tone!

(Tony - originally from NSW & Qld folkscenes - has also remembered that he probably first encountered the term in Darwin, about 1982 ...)

I also seem to recall a Darwin variant that used ".... Groaned Euphoniously" in its derivation!!!
This, however, is somewhat at odds with my partner - Lawls'- memory. He reckons everyone who could still stand at the end of the night, got on the stage and "sang" - and the results were often not the prettiest!!!!!

Well, maybe Stewie can shed further light?!


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Little Robyn
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 02:55 AM

In 1967 Warwick Brock first used the term at the 3rd National Folk Festival in Wellington, NZ, at the end of the final concert. It was an unrehearsed, all performers on stage to close the proceedings, not quite up to standard performance. Pretty ugly really!
But we loved it.
And ever afterwards Frank Fife would use the term at the end of an evening, as an open invitation for everybody to join in.
I don't know how/when it migrated to Oz - quite a few of our folkies have migrated there over the years.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: treewind
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 03:01 AM

FWIW, I've never heard the term used in the UK with that meaning.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 04:12 PM

If anyone has a photo of a traditional ugly stick, please add it to the wikipedia article linked to above. it would really help the artcile. thanks

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Uke
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 04:13 PM

Thanks Robyn for the info;
At the start of this thread I'd assumed this was a widespread term ("commonly used"), but obviously that was wrong - it seems to be a genuine 'down under' expression.

Subject: RE: Folklore: 'Uglies'
From: Little Robyn
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 01:28 AM

I guess so Mike.
Mitch agrees.
Robyn