Tech: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?

Subject: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:04 AM

So, I'm fiddling with the Digital Tradition, trying to make the DOS version work in Windows Vista. I got the lyrics database working like a charm. You can get the song you want in a couple of keystrokes.

Here's how to do the setup:

• Copy all the Digital Files into their own folder on your hard drive.
  
• Open the DT folder, and right-click on the file called folksong.bat (maybe it will show up as just folksong if you don't have filename extensions showing).
  
• When you right-click, select "create shortcut." Then drag that shortcut onto your "start" (Windows XP) or "windows vista" button.
  The program should run when you click on the folksong.bat shortcut on your Start menu.

But then I had trouble with the tunes. I got the tune player to come up and retrieve the file. It even played the song and moved the cursor along the lyrics - but all I could hear was a clicking coming from somewhere, clicking out the tempo of the song but not the tune.

So, is there a way to get old-fashioned DOS beeper sounds to play over the sound card of a Windows Vista computer? I thought my old XP computer was able to do that, but maybe I was hallucinating or something.

Can anybody help? I'm Sooooo close to getting this thing to work.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes on Windows?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:30 AM

Joe -

I don't recall how the DOS version played the music, but I thought it was from midi files(?).

With the startup (shortcut) you used, the DOS program should be running in a "Command" window, or at least in Command mode, which isn't quite old-fashioned DOS but should be close enough. If the setup for "sounds and audio" in Control Panel (or whatever Vista calls it) includes a "DOSSY" input to your sound card, you should get the noises.

Barring you're finding a way to do that, when I put "DOS MIDI" into Google, I got a number of "DOS MIDI PLAYERS," one of which you might be able to load, and then make it the "player" for files of the type the music is written in (hopefully .mid?).

Having not seen Vista, I can't be sure it's the same; but the "preferred" way of running a DOS program in WinXP would be to click "Start" and "Run" which will give you a little box where you can type "Command" (no quotes) which will open¹ a "DOS Window" where you can go to the folder that has the folksong.bat file and then just type "folksong" and it should run the .bat.

¹You can also get the "Command Prompt" = DOS Window at Start|Programs|Accessories and click "Command Prompt."

Either way, in the Command window, you'll be running in the closest you can get to "being a DOS computer."

The place where DOS programs break down is that many of them try to talk directly to hardware, and neither WinXP nor Vista allows that. Everything has to go through the "hardware abstraction layer" and get translated. Vista has made claims of being even better at handling DOS hardware calls than WinXP but I've seen no real proof of that.

John

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:43 AM

Someone will be along soon to remind me that the tune files in the DIGITRAD aren't midi; but don't we have a "Windows" version of it?

John

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:57 AM

I'm working with the DOS version, John, which works a lot better than any Windows version we've had. The tunes are in SongWright format, and the player makes sounds through the tinny beeper in a DOS computer. I thought I had a Windows XP computer that played the beeps through the sound card, but maybe I was wrong on that. I can hear something clicking out the tempo of the tune, but can't figure out where the sound is coming from.

There must be a simple tweak that will get those beeps to play on my sound card.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:41 PM

Joe, somebody told me that current computers no longer are built with the DOS-type beeper. If that's true, you're out of luck.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:19 PM

Ayup, I do believe the beeper's gone. BUT modern computers do have sound cards, and there ought to be a simple way to redirect the beeps to the sound card. I can hear the tune clicking, but I can't tell where the clicking is coming from.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:11 PM

Joe - you can install this DOS Box at Sourceforge (it's about 1.4Mb download I think). It runs the old perform program and plays the tunes. (It's not great, but it works; I got a few crackles when the program loaded but fine otherwise).

Mick

(Sorry that link starts the download immediately, but you can cancel it and have a look. Run the downloaded installer to set it up. All you need to do then is run DOS Box and issue the command

MOUNT C

This will make that directory the C drive in DosBox, then just do Perform as normal)

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:19 AM

Mick P -

I didn't find anything at the Sourceforge pages to indicate for sure whether DosBox can read NTFS format drives. (Quite a few DOS emulators that I've seen require a FAT or FAT32 formatted partition.) It looks like DosBox probably can read NTFS, but can that be confirmed?

With a new Vista installation, it's not likely that Joe has anything except NTFS, unless he's got an aux/external drive tacked on somewhere.

From what I've found, the "Beep" command (beep.sys) that most likely was used for the original playback effectively disappeared during (or before?)the ancient Win95/Win98 era. It's been gone long enough that WinXP Help [Help | Index | "commands" | Help With DOS Commands] doesn't even list its absence as a change. Win98 appears to have just played a .wav file for the boot beeps, although I don't find much on how it managed to play it before the sound card gets turned on to get the boot beeps. WinXP appears to turn sound off until audio drivers are available, and plays beeps¹ only if there are errors.

¹ Possibly by playback from the 80h "error card" bootlog function, later in the boot sequence?

I'd think that understanding what's simple to do would require some familiarity with the innards of SongWright, but of course one doesn't really need deep understanding if something that works can be found.

John

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 05:59 AM

John

I ran the DOSBox on my XP/Pro system, which is NTFS (well mostly - I have one FAT partition for use with Linux dual boot) and it was fine. I only tried it with one file but it did work.

I'm sure that somewhere on my browsing travels I've seen something that simulated the DOS speaker, but on a quick look I couldn't find it.

Mick

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 06:41 AM

I found some chatter about Beeps at Osterman's blog that indicates perhaps what some people are still doing, but I think I've forgotten too much ancient history to figure out all of what they're talking about, or perhaps I just never got into that. The chat is a couple of years old.

I don't see a "solution" there, but it might be of interest for the curious. Osterman says he filed it as "Microsoft History, Fascinating geek stuff, Audio," which I guess describes the conversation.

John

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 May 07 - 12:42 AM

I ran the DOS DT on the Toshiba Notebook I bought last year, and the tunes play like a charm. Apparently, some Windows XP (and maybe Vista) computers play the DOS beeps through the sound card, and some don't. Now, if I could only figure out why...
I haven't been able to get the tunes to play in Windows Vista - has anybody been able to do this?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: DOS Digital Tradition Tunes in Windows?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 25 May 07 - 09:50 AM

I have found that the modem on my dialup computer has a plugin on the back for a small speaker. I have it hooked up so I can listen to be reassured that the modem is dialing up. It also works for DigiTrad. No special goodies required.