BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:32 PM

What about tightening up the restrictions for
non-citizens to posses guns, or the kinds of guns they possess. Would that violate the 2nd amendment?

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:31 PM

Not for the first time, I'm rather glad that 4,000 miles and the chill Atlantic divides me from folk like Slag and BB.
With such articulate and noble champions for the Land of the Free, it's little wonder that half the world seems to hate the US and the other half laughs at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:31 PM

The Language of the 2nd Amendment

The 2nd Amendment reads: "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." One way in which the NRA constructs its mythical 2nd Amendment is by changing the language of the real one. The NRA's political ads consistently omit the part about the militia being necessary to a state's security. Indeed, the abridged version actually appears on the edifice of the NRA's Washington, DC headquarters.

The NRA's deliberate omission of the militia language speaks volumes, because it is precisely that language that expresses the purpose, and limit, of the right to keep and bear arms. As the United States Supreme Court wrote in its fullest discussion of the Amendment's meaning, the "obvious purpose" of the Amendment was "to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness" of state militia forces. United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174, 178 (1939). The Court added: "It must be interpreted and applied with that end in view." Therefore, the necessity of maintaining effective state militias is, by the language itself, the only concern of the Amendment, and the right to keep and bear arms exists only to the extent necessary to meet that concern. There is nothing in the Amendment's language even remotely suggesting a constitutional right to keep and bear arms for hunting, self-protection, target shooting or other individual pursuits unrelated to the operation of state militias.

http://www.guncite.com/hci2nd.html

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:29 PM

To my knowledge the "right to bear arms" actually refers to militias.
Please correct me if I am wrong...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:27 PM

"I used to have a little respect for your opinions."


Never that I can recall.



"Goin' for a bit of easy sympathy vote these days are we?? "

Yes, YOU and the others demanding the removal of rights ARE.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:26 PM

"Didn't really expect you to be a supporter of the "gun lobby" BB."

If you devalue part of the Bill of Rights, what justification do you have for ANY rights?

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:24 PM

Care to give ONE case where the criminal DID NOT violate the LAW?????


Oh, I guess we should pass more laws that are not enforced...

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:24 PM

Didn't really expect you to be a supporter of the "gun lobby" BB.
I used to have a little respect for your opinions.
Goin' for a bit of easy sympathy vote these days are we??

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:23 PM

"The National Rifle Association, or NRA, is a non-profit group for the promotion of marksmanship, firearm safety, and the protection of hunting and personal protection firearm rights in the United States, established in New York in 1871 as the American Rifle Association. It sponsors firearm safety training courses, as well as marksmanship events featuring shooting skills and sports. The NRA is sometimes said to be the single most powerful non-profit organization in the United States. It predicates its political activity on gun ownership being a civil liberty protected by the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights, and is the oldest continuously operating civil liberties organization in the United States. According to its website, the NRA has 4.3 million members"

OK, we better outlaw the ACLU as well: Can't have those pesky rights interfere with anybody's idea on how to make the world a safer place.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:22 PM

Get real
Reality as in VT, Columbine, the Amish shootings and plenty of others I suppose. But, heck, it's a small price to pay for freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:21 PM

But it is nice to know all the support for the removal of rights to provide for imagined security.

If we just mandate a single world religion, and force everyone to comply with it, think about how much less conflict there will be.

Freedom of speech was never meant to include such things as the Internet and television: After all, the Founding fathers did not think about that.

No group of over three people should be allowed to assemble, to prevent tragedies like the killings. If they had to be in groups of two or three, think how many fewer would have been killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:19 PM

NRA

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:16 PM

"That heap of shit is not even worthy of a reply"

Sort of what I thought about your diatribe...

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:14 PM

I think NRA is National Rifle Association.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:13 PM

Slag ....have you lost it completely?

That heap of shit is not even worthy of a reply

Its more full of holes than those pesky "redskins"

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Slag
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:08 PM

Gee, I must have missed some of the news!!! How long was this psychotic a member of the NRA? Did the NRA teach him to be a loner? Did it teach him how to kill people with malice aforethought? Is the NRA a criminal organization? If so why haven't arrests been made? Just what does the NRA stand for? What do they do?

You know, it would be interesting to see a research study on the political leanings of those who commit murders, mass murders and the like. The prejudicial hatred spewed out by some of the posters herein drips of venom and murder against many law abiding folks who are responsible gun owners who seek to obey all the legal contortions necessary in order to protect their families and neighbors from criminals and the deranged and to enjoy a hobby and a sport. Am I supposed to believe that their hearts are in the right place?

American gun laws a disgrace? Hardly! The books are full of odious and restrictive gun laws as well as useful ones which increase mandatory sentences for those who abuse their rights. Laws cannot change the hearts or minds of haters and killers nor can they stop the same from arming themselves in some fashion. That fact alone necessitates the law abiding to be armed in some manner or we will be sitting ducks such as these unfortunate souls were at VT. Get real.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:03 PM

right on Cap'n.
Your message rings of truth more strongly than all the crocodile tears on Mudcat...
   "From my dead cold hand"....fucking scum....Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:49 PM

But tragedies are perfect for scoring political points. A far bigger tragedy gets played out on the streets of Baghdad on a weekly basis, and people see no problem scoring political points off that. For me, to kill other people in the name of a faith or an ideology is far more of a tragedy than to do so because of a psychotic episode.
Yes, it is a tragic and appalling episode - similar to many that seem to have happened in the US. But compared to Iraq or Chechnya...

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

Some people seem to think it is ok to try to make political points off even a tragedy of this magnitude.

But then, they would rather pass more "feel-good" laws that don't work than to try to deal with the real problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:39 PM

Since this thread now includes "debate" and "opinions", allow me....

Some nut goes nuts with a gun. Someone must be punished. Punish all of the gun owners.

That is truly fucked up.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:18 PM

Time the silent majority in America asserted themselves.
The only time gun deaths make the news is when multiple tragedies occur.
American gun laws are a national disgrace....on a par with what you laughingly call an administration...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:55 PM

The letter says we should pray.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:41 PM

I just got a recorded phone call from the superintendent of our schools. He/it said a letter was coming home with the kids today with suggestions to how to deal with the VT shooting incident with our children.


On TV there are damage control speeches with Bush in attendence.
IF VT were sued 2 million dollars for every dead and wounded person in these gun deaths they would certainly be facing bankruptcy or closure unless the NRA were to help.

Yes let the NRA help pay VT for the loss of these fine people.

I am sure there are no members of the NRA willing to surrender their guns or support gun laws similar to the UK.

Let them pay a tribute, not a fine, for every gun death in our country.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:19 PM

Outlaw English majors!

And Basketball.

.................................................................
Gunman came to U.S. at age 8 from South Korea
POSTED: 2:00 p.m. EDT, April 17, 2007

Story Highlights• Gunman was 23-year-old senior English major
• Cho Seung-hui listed Centreville, Virginia, as hometown
• Gunman, family described as quiet

CENTREVILLE, Virginia (CNN) -- The gunman in Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech was Cho Seung-hui, a 23-year-old senior English major from Centreville, Virginia, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said Tuesday.

Cho took his own life as police closed in on him, according to Col. Steve Flaherty, Virginia State Police's superintendent. Thirty other bodies were found in Norris Hall along with Cho, officials said.

Two people were killed earlier Monday in a college dormitory.

Cho, a South Korean national, was a legal resident of the United States, emigrating from his native country when he was 8, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

He lived in a Virginia Tech dormitory, but not in the one where the first of Monday's shootings took place, university officials said.

"It certainly is reasonable for us to assume that Cho was the shooter in both places, but we don't have the evidence to take us there at this particular point in time," Flaherty said.

Police searched the residence at the home address he listed in Centerville, a suburb of Washington, on Monday night, CNN's Bob Franken reported.

Neighbors and a postal worker who delivered mail to the residence described the family as friendly but quiet, Franken reported. No one was home at the white, two-story townhouse residence Tuesday.

Cho was a loner, according to Larry Hincker, the associate vice president for university relations.

Authorities are having a hard time finding any information about him, Hincker said.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in Washington that Cho was a legal permanent resident and had a green card.

Cho "was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash told The Associated Press. He said the family was quiet, and Cho often played basketball, according to an AP report.

Fairfax County Schools in Virginia issued a statement Tuesday saying Cho graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Virginia, in 2003. The school's Web site describes it as an "Honors" high school.

Court records obtained by the AP show Cho got a speeding ticket from Virginia Tech police on April 7. He was cited for going 44 mph in a 25 mph zone, the AP reported, with a court date set for May 23.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:14 PM

A man came to VT a year ago to discuss the role that first shooter video games play in creating school killers.

There is even a Columbine challenge video game in which players can hone their skills.

The military has paid for some of the games to help depersonalize trainees to kill with calm exactitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:11 PM

well you did,
and you are right that it is a possibility

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:49 PM

My nieces know both one of the men who jumped out the window (after which the gunman killed everybody left in the classroom) and the woman who survived the main classroom attack and has been on CNN.
This time it wasn't a white guy, though.
Anybody saying he was at the right age to be coming down with schizophrenia?

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:37 PM

That's fine Jim...

but since the 'debate' is alread here:(I considered a 4th thread...but who knows the best way?)


Mick says "Virtually no one I know ever treated guns in an irresponsible way, "

I knew one. Back before I had thought through all the implications of the gun situation--in fact, I lived in his basement apt. for a year.....he knew guns quite well. He owned a shotgun, and a couple of rifles and several handguns. He favored his .45, however. He often walked around with it loosely concealed in his back pocket! Once, at a county Young Democrats meeting where there was a contentious election, he was surprised by being nominated for a position. He walked up to decline the nomination with that .45 half uncovered bulging obviously. At another meeting of the NAACP, the gun FELL OUT of his pocket on the floor! He smirked, picked it up, and went on talking.
This guy fancied himself a 'protector'...a swashbuckling knight. He knew another man who he considered 'dangerous', so he would drive on nightly patrols with armament by his side.
(He wanted ME to learn to load and use both the .45 and the shotgun...he considered one 30 min. lesson to be adequate. I was bemused & confused, trying to humor him.)

One night, he got a call from a woman we both knew, who said something like, "Mac..can you come over...I am really upset..."

so...he came down, grabbed ME, and "C'mon Bill...we have to go...you drive!"....Off we went, just a few blocks. As I pulled up to the curb, he opened the door, and...so help me, ROLLED out of the car as it was still moving, .45 in hand, and rushed in a crouch up to the door...where the startled woman said "Mac...what in the world are you doing? I was just tired & upset and needed to talk!"

Now, this was a GOOD guy. He meant well...and fortunately, nothing ever happened that would put him in a sad newspaper story. But it is easy to see how there might have been. Mac could SO easily have decided he saw a 'danger' and used that gun too quickly.

Perhaps if Mick had known Mac, he could have talked some sense into him...but I really doubt it. And I wonder how many other similar stories there are?

Mac decided *I* needed a gun, and procured for me a 5 shot .22...just in case. I shrugged and hid it away.........guess what? It was stolen in a burglary. It was pawned...and they wanted me to BUY it back. I declined.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:35 PM

All of the issues in this thread have been discussed on the Diane Reem show today. The issues are not trash unless nothing is learned or improved!

All of us are revulsed by horror in different ways.

I did not know there are ~ 17,000 violent assualts on US college campuses every year, few of which involve guns. However the US does rank #11 in random gun violence if you exclude things like civil wars in other countries, some of which we supply the guns.

I do apologize for comparing all Virginia youth to the kind of teenage kids you see in Virginia Shopping Malls. The students at Virginia Tech are a wonderful diverse and comsmopolitan group of people.

The tragedy of the holocaust survivor senior professor killed yesterday, while trying to save others, is somehow compounded by the fact that it was on Holocaust rememberence day.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:15 PM

I dropped in yesterday to offer my condolences to those affected by this tragedy. I am thoroughly disgusted with the way some of you manage to turn Tragedy into Trash. I'll start a "Sympathy" thread for those interested (if no-one else has) and respectfully ask that you keep your debate out of it.
Sincerely.
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: dianavan
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:07 PM

"...the feebleness of the response to the deaths of two young people..."

Feeble is putting it lightly.

I suppose because they 'assumed' it was a domestic dispute, there was no need for a lock down? That tells you how seriously they take domestic disputes! Don't they realize that those who kill during a domestic dispute are enraged and are a danger to everyone? Pity the women of Viginia.

I work in an elementary school and I can assure you we have emergency response procedures in place and we have drills at least once a year. We all know the difference between code yellow and code red. It is far more likely that you will find a gun on a university campus so what kind of excuse does the administration or the police have? Absolutely none!

It is sad and disgusting that anyone would even want to commit such a horrible act but the response was equally apalling.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:01 PM

Bill, the answer is to change the culture. But I don't expect that to happen.

I would like to know why a "domestic dispute" in a dormitory wasn't handled by the campus cops to start with. If a quarrel had reached the point where a Residence Assistant was called in, why wasn't it handled as a similar quarrel would have been off the campus and the police called?

I've known of students at a major US university who thought that they shouldn't be held responsible for anything from underage drinking to assault and battery to rape because "I'm a XXXXX student." (The argument didn't hold.)

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:54 PM

(I see the pleas to limit this thread to 'sympathy' etc., but obviously that's not going to happen. I doubt any of the victim's families are going to be reading this.)


and frankly, I am weary of the use of weak, fallacious arguments about how 'hammers' or knives or autos are also deadly in the wrong hands. Fine...I stipulate that I 'might' be assaulted with a brick on a dark street, or that a disgruntled student 'might' drive his car into a crowd. That is not the point!!! The point is that we have guns...ESPECIALLY handguns inaddition to those dangers....we NEED hammers & bricks and cars. I at least have a chance with a kid waving a brick or knife!
   Let guns be restricted to those who genuinely NEED them...let ammunition be **tightly** controlled. Let penalties for being found with a gun or ammunition in violation of licenced NEED be VERY severe!
Let legitimate collectors of firearms be subject to surprise inspections to see that their collection is secure, and in some instances, rendered incapable of firing! (removed firing pins..whatever)

........nawwww...I don't expect to win. The gun lobby is WAY too powerful. The culture is too far down this road to easily change to the UK model. And I do not feel safe.....and I'm not going to go BUY a gun, pretending that it would make me feel safer.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:41 PM

Whatever your viewpoint on the posession of guns , its a bloody mess !!

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:34 PM

Mick...I went to bed before you posted....but


"Bill, all of the points you make are simply gratuitous assertions on your part. I own weapons, they don't make me feel powerful. They also don't have a mystique except to the deluded."
I carefully SAID "gives a feeling of power for many",...and they only NEED to have that mystique and give a feeling of power for a few.

" I would contend they have many everyday, legitimate uses. You know it too, or do I need to enunciate them."

Nope...they are handy for trained, legitimate law officers & security personnel, who often need them to confront kids on the street who have them illegally.



"As to the contention that you would rather deal with bombs, would you? It was silly of you to say so, buddy. Ever seen what about four bags of fertilizer will do?"

Yes...but you read far too much into what I said. I do not anticipate kids holding up 7/11s with bags of fertilizer. *IF* all I had to worry about was that a kid with a grudge would go out and try to buy fertilizer, I'd be relieved....(and insert several other counter examples here).

" Virtually no one I know ever treated guns in an irresponsible way, nor have I ever seen anyone among the people I have known who ever considered going for a weapon to address a problem or grievance. I have a lifetime experience, Bill, and haven't seen it outside of military life."

But the stories of those who DO are in the news every day! YOU, Mick, hang out with more sensible folks, I guess. But you also know very well that there are multiple thousands of weapons out there in the hands of those who do not have the same attitude as you. You have lived in large, dangerous cities....you KNOW that there are places where you would need to be very careful, lest you meet the kind you prefer to ignore in your argument.

Sorry, Mick...but you compliment me on my debating skills, then you throw me big, fat blooper pitches. As I say...show me how to limit gun ownership possession to those who are sane, and I will shut up.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:22 PM

There's not a "lesson" that I want to learn from this massacre, although many have already been offered and more candidates are awaiting their unvailing.

Some radio talk-show host is probably already calling for all resident aliens to be deported, but not for stricter gun laws or stricter enforcement of what we have.

This is just such an opportunity for the Bush Administration to persuade the people to hunker down while they provide more protection in the police state of hell they would like to create.

When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

Somewhere, old Satan is smiling at his fun.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:17 PM

The newspapers in England today are full of pictures of hugely overweight policemen and heavily-armed security guards who, it is reported, were all running around,screaming and shouting at students to raise their hands or be shot,and tackling to the ground and hand-cuffing those students who ,terrified and panic-stricken, were trying to run from the scene . Can this be true ?? What a way to react to a crisis !!

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Desdemona
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 11:56 AM

This is just a complete nightmare, I feel like my head is going to explode just thinking about it. The way the university handled this situation was absolutely inexcusable, and there's going to be holy hell to pay (to say nothing of the 30+ families whose lives will never, never be the same).

More than two hours after two students were brutally murdered on campus, people were still blithely waking up, taking showers, eating breakfast, packing their backpacks and heading off to class with no idea of the enormous danger they were in, and even at that point the best effort made to alert them was via E-MAIL?! I don't know about you, but my experience of college students (and professors!) is that they roll out of bed at the last possible moment, especially if they have morning classes, and there is no guarantee they'll have (or take) time to check their e-mail to see if they're in imminent peril of being shot in German class.

It's appallingly, needlessly, senselessly tragic how many times and at how many junctures the ball was dropped by the authorities charged with these students' safety and welfare. After the first shooting it was "assumed" the gunman had run away and left campus...oh, that's all right, then, back to business as usual?! Why on earth wasn't the local media alerted? That first incident should have been on the radio, on the television, announced over every loudspeaker on campus and in every forum anyone in that community had access to AND e-mailed. Had they done so, it's very likely that a number of lives might have been spared. I heard some "expert" on the news opining that to have done so would have risked causing a panic. Well, what did they get instead? Panic and the mass slaughter of innocent people.

I'm sick at heart that such a thing could happen: that a young person so sick and damaged should have gone unrecognized, that he had such ready access to such deadly weapons, and such an ungodly amount of ammunition, the feebleness of the response to the deaths of two young people in a place where they are supposed to be safe and free to develop their minds, that so many of their peers and teachers had to die as a result of that feebleness...I'm with Giok: the NRA can fuck off, we need stricter gun control and we need it yesterday.

~D

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM

If you're prepared to carry a gun, then you must be prepared to use it.
If you're prepared to use it, then you must be prepared to kill someone.
If you're prepared to kill someone, you're a potential murderer.
If you didn't own a gun, none of these options would be open to you.
There's no such thing as a responsible gun owner, only a person who's prepared to kill under the circumstances they think they can dictate!
Gun control is the only answer.
Tell the NRA to fuck off!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Burke
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 10:13 AM

With 2 hours between the dorm shooting & the classroom shooting, the gunman had plenty of time to get more ammunition in between.

Apparently the Univeristy officials thought they were dealing with a relationship conflict gone terribly wrong. I know lots of students sleep late, but it seems like IM's & the like would have spread the word on campus about something happening, even without official actions.

The others killed have not been officially identified, but the television news programs had some identites based on friends or relatives who had been notified or students in the classrooms attacked.

As I heard the descriptions of the triple major RA, a dancer, professors who were leaders in their fields, the losses seem so much more palpable.

I hold all the students, faculty & thier families in my prayers.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:50 AM

Student Gunman Identified
Tuesday, Apr. 17, 2007 By CAITLIN SULLIVAN/BLACKSBURG AND KATHERINE ROONEY/WASHINGTON

The gunman responsible for Monday's wave of terror which killed 32 people at the Virginia Polytechnic and State University was identified by police Tuesday morning as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a resident alien originally from South Korea. Cho, a senior studying English, lived on campus.

Related
How to Make Campuses Safer
Unlike high schools, most universities can't beef up security with a metal detector or two. So what can be done to protect students?
His killing spree had begun 7:15 a.m., with the shooting of a woman and a male resident adviser on the fourth floor of a dorm building on campus. Kristen Bensley, a freshman who lived below the floor where the shooting occurred, told TIME, "There were rumors going on about [the assailant] was fighting with his girlfriend or something of that nature." Bensley suspected the gunmen may have been a a resident of the dorm, or have been admitted by a resident, because entry to the building requires a "passport," a card that one has to swipe in order to open doors before 10 a.m. If so, one question that arises will be how he managed to keep so much ammunition unnoticed. Two weapons have reportedly been recovered, one 22 caliber, the other a 9 mm.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:49 AM

OK, mea culpa. I allowed my feelings of revulsion to get the better of me. Apologies all round and sincere condolences to those affected by this tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:30 AM

It would be better over on the Gun Crime thread, SJ, though I do agree with you.

HERE is a link to the school website and what they have to say, with the shooter's identity, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:22 AM

Bearded Bruce - I understand what you're saying, but I'd suggest that this is absolutely the place to discuss the stupidity of allowing free access to firearms for anyone who wants them. Were it not for firearms this thread would not exist, and the world would be a happier place.

However, I'm as sad as the next man about this tragedy, and I'll respect the views of others and butt out. Apologies to anyone who I may have offended (except, of course, the stupid gun-freaks).
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:37 AM

Well, though now is not the time, a ***reasonable*** discussion about handguns in the US is long overdue... But not now...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:35 AM

Well said BeardedBruce!

Give the families space to grieve.

They have my sincerest sympathies.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:30 AM

I'm concerned about copycat events, especially now that the school year is winding down and those whose grades are less than expected.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:28 AM

I now know that I knew, slightly, one of the dead students. Also, a prof at the local U. has found out that his son, a student at VT, was hurt when he jumped out a window -- badly sprained ankle -- and he and his wife are quite naturally greatly relieved.

The news this morning says that the shooter was an Asian student at the university, and that's about ALL that's new.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Escamillo
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:23 AM

It´s hard to find words to express our sorrow for the tragedy. Me, my family, friends, and everybody I know, are much concerned and talking all the day about the Virginia incidents.

We in Argentina have seen some similar cases with one or two victims, but there is a common characteristic of the individuals who caused the tragedy: a history of discrimination, isolation and disrespect against these persons, by members of the students community, ignored or accepted by the authorities, who encourage the spirit of competition, differentiation, division of people into winners and losers, into members and not members of internal groups or teams, etc. A sane person will never have a criminal reaction, but let´s sum a hostile social environment, to a psychotic personality, to a growing tension, to the wide availability of lethal weapons which are terribly easy to carry and use, to some particular incident, and we have all the elements for a tragedy.

It will be hard to recover from so much pain, but we have to do something to find the causes and amend the policies which are failing.

Un abrazo - Andrés, from Buenos Aires

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:08 AM

SJ,

This is NOT the appropriate thread to discuss this. ( feel free to start another)

ALL of us look at this as a tragedy: YOUR trying to make it a discussion of gun control is, while perhaps worthwhile in another thread, not a positive contribution.

BTW, US population is 300 million.