Members Versus Guests and Noms de Plume

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Noms de Plume
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 10:35 AM

I preferred to use a regional moniker recognizable to those who live in that area, and I chose one that doesn't have an apparent gender attached. There are frequently discussions underway in which assumptions are made regarding your position if your gender is apparent. I prefer to sidestep those assumptions.

SRS

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Noms de Plume
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:07 PM

All this talk about "GUEST"s, but no one has addressed Sandra's objection to our fake names ~ noms de plume.

My first few posts here were identified as "GUEST, Tom Henehan" ~ I didn't hesitate to post my real name. When I was eventually encouraged to join, I was specifically encouraged to adopt a "Mudcat name," and I followed the recommendation and did so. I do use my real name (usually without a word-space: TomHenehan) just about everywhere else where I belong to a forum or listserve or whatever, but it's kind of fun to be just a little bit more mysterious and use a pseudonym here in this one little corner of cyberspace

Having a clear identity attached to each post is helpful to readers, so they can follow the conversation with better understanding. There are many threads (especially in the "BS" section, and especially on the most controversial topics) where there are multiple unidentified guests, and it can become very confusing when you can't tell one GUEST from another, and/or can't tell whether multiple "GUEST" messages are from the same person or two or more different individuals.

You don't have to know the people's real names to sort this stuff out. But it really helps to be able to differentiate person "A" from person "B."

Shifting to another subtopic, I have no objection at all to anyone (stranger, new member, not-so-new member, whoever) asking a question that has already been answered. Threads that address such questions only bore me insofar as they consist of ill-tempered responses advising the newbie to "look it up and leave us alone!"

I enjoy these rehashings of previously-discussed topics when they resurrect an interesting question that I might never have asked myself, but whose answer turns out to be fascinating. At the very least, references (ideally, links) to the past discussion(s) that the questioner "should have" looked up often engage my interest. And there are very many instances when someone has something new to contribute ~ even if the topic had been addressed in the past, it usually was not totally exhausted within the earlier discussion, and someone always seems to offer something new and interesting (even if it's just that one person's quirky opinion).

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Noms de Plume
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:48 PM

Non, Nom or Noms? I never mastered English so I have no chance with French. I did however look this up (on the Internet) before I posted and found it spelt all three ways. Obviously only one was correct but I had no idea which one. Thanks eanjay and bubblyrat.

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Noms de Plume
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:38 PM

I have just checked , and Guests CAN access the Members Info page !
Though it hasnt been updated for a while - And NO -That was NOT a criticism !

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Noms de Plume
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:37 PM

Oh no...we are encouraging people to have only one name!!

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Noms de Plume
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:13 PM

You're right, bubblyrat.

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Nom de Plumes
From: bubblyrat
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:03 PM

Gosh !! It suddenly changed from "Non de Plumes " to "Nom de Plumes "------How terribly clever of it !! Although it should still, I think , be "Noms de Plume " ( ask a Canadian !! ).

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Nom de Plumes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 10:31 AM

I guess Azizi did decide to stick around--5084 posts later she's still going strong! (I just had a quick peek back at her first post, and as is the case here at Mudcat, found that to be an interesting and still viable thread to bring back to the top.)

SRS (with 12,994 posts!--where did the time go?)

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Nom de Plumes
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:54 AM

I was expecting another GUEST-bashing.

Imagine my surprise.

I'll repeat what I've said many time before. (You could look it up.)

The mudcat policy regarding GUEST postings is fine just the way it is.

Works for me.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Nom de Plumes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 07:26 AM

I would like to clarify that when I wrote that I was afraid of posting on the Internet, I was not referring to a fear of being ridiculed or insulted by persons who posted on this forum.

Instead, I was fearful of my ability to communicate effectively and I was intimidated by how much I thought that I didn't know and how much I actually didn't know about folk music and blues. Furthermore, I was aware that anything I wrote on this forum could be and probably would be viewed by large numbers of people throughout the world. And I was aware that a record of what I said would be at least potentially available for years and years and years.

In essence, I doubted myself much more than I was afraid of the reactions of people who posted here.

The first time that I found this site, I had so little experience with Internet message boards/discussion forums that I didn't "get" that you had to click on the subject line to read the messages about the topics listed. I looked at the site, and shrugging my shoulders I quickly left. But for some reason, I kept Mudcat's Internet address. And two years later, with more Internet surfing experience under my belt {or under my fingers ??} I came back to Mudcat. After lurking for a month, I took the plunge and jumped into a conversation that I felt confident that I knew something about
{a thread on the song "Kumbayah"}.

I posted a brief, pointed comment as a guest on that thread. And frankly, because I knew what I knew what I knew, I wasn't concerned if people posting to that thread disagreed with me. And that realization, that acknowledgement to myself that I had something of value to share with others was a huge part of what caused me to conquer my fear of writing on the Internet.

What also helped me get over my fear of posting on this forum was the nature of the responses that I received from folks whose conversation I had joined. I didn't know what to expect when I moved from "listener" [reader] to "talker" {poster}. Because I felt so strongly about the subject matter, I admit that I probably would have been through with Mudcat-at least until the next time I got up enough nerve to post-if my comment was ignored or if no one on that thread had agreed with my position. I'm glad that didn't happen.

As it turned out, three people who were part of that conversation immediately responded favorably to my comment, and then wrote on tht thread encouraging me to join this forum. And I did so.

In my two years of posting to this forum, I have learned alot about a host of subjects, and I have learned alot about myself. And I absolutely do not regret my decision to join this forum.

I encourage those people who may be reading this comment to take the plunge and post on Mudcat. If you have something that you feel is worthy of sharing, we want to hear it, and discuss it, and learn from it-even if we-or some of us-may disagree with it. If you like play on words, and like to be witty, show us what you've got.
Many of us enjoy those kinds of posts too.

If you're not ready to join yet, stick around and read. Then try posting on these threads-and yes, please use a consistent name so we can get to know you.

Get to know Mudcat members and Mudcat consistent guests from our postings. Have confidence in what you can share. And at some point now or later, even if you don't think you're ready, take the plunge and post.

You'll be glad you did.

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Nom de Plumes
From: Crane Driver
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:34 AM

Bee-Dubya

I've never had any problems logging in from libraries, internet cafes or anywhere else, though if the computers are set up to disallow cookies that would stop it. It's advisable to log out afterwards though.

Andrew (logged in at work)

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:21 AM

I watch Guest posts fairly closely, and I can tell you that very few registered members get involved in the game of using multiple identities at Mudcat. The vast majority use the same name every time.

Interestingly, the ones who complain that other Mudcatters switch identities "all the time," are mostly those few people who do it themselves.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:16 PM

Though I did sign in as 'GUEST Corrigo' and "GUEST New Guy" a couple of times, I do not have any other 'monikers' here at mudcat, and I don't 'sign in' as GUEST.

To me, it's a matter of principle. The cowardly flames and sleezy slimes that infest the internet are largely the result of posting with anonymity, and this benefits only the powers in this world that thrive on dividing the people.

As to your excellent point, Sandra, about whether there is any difference between anonymous guests and members that post under different names and characters... I'd say... 'not much'. Though there may be more 'craft' involved in maintaining consistent 'personality disorders'... the end result of such a contrast would be to exchange or compare disingenuity with sociopathic cowardice.

The internet still has a lot of growing up to do...
ttr

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:13 PM

As pointed out above, you don't have to reveal anything factual about yourself to become a member. The form asks for a name and email address, but it's not one of those "we'll send your password to that email address" type deals like some forums have. You don't have to give your real name, you choose your own password, and the email address is strictly as a means of contact if you ever forget your password. If you're sure you're not going to forget it, there's no need to even use a legitimate address.

Technical issues like not being able to log in from work or library computers aside, I don't see any good reason why anyone who is willing to play by the rules and use a consistent GUEST name doesn't just go ahead and become a member. Having to remember to type in a name every time you post has gotta be a hassle.

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:45 PM

Art, you may now make that "Weirdness" Secret Santa! LOL! (see help forum for the reference)

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:19 PM

And, as has been said, PLEASE join the happy throng. We range from serious musicians to academic folklorists to dilettantes to content members of the designated audience (moi!). We are heavily USian-UKish-Aussie-Canadian, but have active members from Iceland, Germany, Belgium, China and other places...but one thing many of us are is highly opinionated and not terribly shy. I can't remember if Guests can access the member profile information or not, but that is where "personal" stuff is stored - and I'll guess that less than a quarter of the membership have anything there.

Names are a matter of personal preference - mine is my real name, I'm in Albuquerque and I'm in the phone book. Other people prefer to use a hobby, a nickname, a physical description of them self, or who knows what...all that is asked is that you (mostly) use the same name all the time.

Advantages of membership? Well, you get access to the live chatroom, which can be fun, and gives you a chance to get better acquainted with those of us who hanbg out there. You get to be in the annual "Secret Santa" exchange (which isn't quite as silly as it sounds), and where you can log out and log back in as "sorcha's secret santa" and bug the heck out of whoever you have drawn.

Jump on in - you'll enjoy yourself.

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:02 PM

thanks Joe - I hadn't realised that the same name should be used until a couple of days ago. I will check out the FAQ tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,Joe Offer, at the Women's Center
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:39 PM

Hi, Sandra - the FAQ (click) (frequently asked questions) page has this information:

Thread #19340   Message #1931671
Posted By: Joe Offer
09-Jan-07 - 03:36 PM
Thread Name: Mudcat FAQ - Newcomer's Guide
Subject: Anonymous Posting

From now on, anonymous posting will be watched and controlled. We've had far too many problems with anonymous posters. If you want to post, use a consistent name. We're not requiring registration, although we certainly prefer that. You may certainly use a pseudonym as a user name, but please use that same name every time you post.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:34 PM

Herga Kitty,

I didn't think that was your intention. And I don't think that a guest would or should hesitate to join because of what you said.

What I meant to convey was that posting on the Internet and joining a community of folks who I don't know was intimidating to me.

But, I've come a long way from that-and though there's been some bumps in the road here or there- I can definitely say that joining Mudcat has been worth it.

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 06:56 PM

Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful from my own experience of past threads, didn't mean to intimidate any new guest....

K

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Slag
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 06:04 PM

Gee, I've been reading the descriptions of trolls with great interest and the thing that really dawned on me is how much said goblins resemble--- LAWYERS!!! It's like, "Let's you and him fight!" All except for the part about anonymity. With a "Nom de Internet" you can't tell a gnome from a troll from a lawyer!!! (Hmmmm, I wonder, was that a trollish thing to say?")

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 05:31 PM

Just like Azizi, aah was scared te put me five penn'orth in and aah had nee clue aboot the Digitrad

However, Sandra, if there's summat ye aren't sure about, aall ye hev te dee is ask (like what aah did) and these lovely people will flock te help.

Occasionally they will pick you up on your punctuation, spellin', facts and aall sorts of other things, but it aall helps.

Eventually, like me, you might veven attend a 'gather' just to put names to faces - THEN you'll find oot warra lovely bunch of people ye've got yoursel' mixed up with.

Gan on, Pet! Ye knaah ye want te join us, really

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 05:31 PM

I've recently joined a different, unrelated discussion list where membership is mandatory. The moniker used is usually something clever but not a name, or if it is a name, it is just one part. Like Mudcat, others know only as much as you want them to. I have found that site to be a pleasure to peruse and contribute to, because there isn't the sniping and trolling that turns up so often here.

Mudcat requires a tougher hide, if you plan to stick with it, because chances are really good that you're going to offer a personal view on something that will catch the eye of or upset one of the trolls who will attempt to derail the discussion, effectively bringing the subject of the conversation around to them and their behavior. This is its own reward for such sociopaths. In addition to a few guests, we've had some really obnoxious members. Martin Gibson, Gargoyle, and ClintonHammond are three I know of who have been banned. There are others who left before my time. For all I can tell, they're the ones behind the obnoxious guests who come in with various guest IDs (or not) these days.

It is important that those considering joining be able to look around and talk to others. My advice is to go ahead and take the plunge. You can leave if you decide it doesn't fit. I'd prefer that all who join discussions here be members.

SRS

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 05:14 PM

"I don't think people should have to join just to ask questions, but it does also help if they check whether the questions have been asked before by using the Digitrad forum and discussion search facility."

I recall when I was a guest how afraid I was to jump into conversations {"Conversations" is how I like to think of the threads}.

When I was a guest, I didn't have a clue what the Digitrad forum and discussion search facility} were. Furthermore, I didn't know how to use those features.

I don't think that guests should lurk until they figure out how to use the DT or the search feature. Also, the search feature still has real glitches in it so if you put in a key word or phrase, it's not certain that you will find the thread you're looking for-and the message you get when you click on that line is still not the right message.

All this to say, that I would prefer that Mudcat continues to allow guests-using a consistent name-to post in the music/folk culture section and the BS section.

Yes, there are problems with trolls, but I think Mudcat will lose more than we gain if we disallow guest posting.

I also don't think that it's any big deal if guests ask questions that have previously been asked. Those questions and the subsequent comments have the potential of yielding new insights and additional information.

To guest Sandra and other guests, I join with others in inviting you to join Mudcat.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:46 PM

Sandra - it does help if you give a clue to which guest you are - otherwise you can end up with threads where different guests post anonymously just as "Guest", and it gets a bit confusing as to which message came from which guest!

I don't think people should have to join just to ask questions, but it does also help if they check whether the questions have been asked before by using the Digitrad forum and discussion search facility.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Crane Driver
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:36 PM

Not at all, Sandra. Many guests are welcome. Trolls are people (not necessarily guests) who deliberately post inflammatory or contentious messages with the intent of causing arguments amongst other posters. Sometimes the same person will post under several 'guest' names, apparently arguing with him/herself to keep the pot boiling. The intent appears to be to cause as much damage as possible to the forum and to other posters, presumably for fun. I guess the same motive lies behind many of the viruses and other malicious code people send through the internet. Some people just can't stand to see others enjoying themselves.

Andrew

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:33 PM

the problem with trolls, if not monitored, is that one person can even take 2 sides of an argument and 'seed' the discussion with remarks designed to provoke & cause problems. The management can monitor most such individuals thru technology, and has recently been deleting a lot of posts from 'guests' who DO NOT SIGN posts consistently.

We'd like to have Sandra as a member..*smile*....but so far, 'guest' Sandra is fine, as long as you remember to sign posts.

Subject: RE: Members Versus Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:29 PM

no...'troll' is an internet word for those who start discussions which are INTENDED to cause uproar & argument. Some people do it intentionally and carefully, some just thrive on 'hot' topics and baiting others. Trolls are 'often' anonymous, but sometimes just don't care.

Members here often use names which reveal nothing about their real identity, but still are regular, honest folks. I sometimes don't even know if they are male or female/

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:13 PM

Bee and Les from Hull

I have seen trolls mentioned a couple of times before. Is that slang for guests?

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Amos
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:10 PM

SO far, the only solution that makes strong sense to me is th esystem of having a published code of conduct, and weeding out the worst of the violations thereto. If Guests were prohibited from initiating BS threads, they could still post music questions. But the antisocial out there would probably then clutter up the music threads with BS whihc was what we tried to cure by splitting the BS threads in the first place.


A

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:05 PM

Ouch! Not so hard!

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:02 PM

Members can put information about themseleves (or not bother). It's in the 'quck links'.

One problem with guests not being able to start threads means that it wouldn't be so easy for people to ask the question that we are often so good at answering. Besides, some of us enjoy bashing the trolls!

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:59 PM

...what sort of personal information is available about members?

Only what they choose to reveal. And there's been no spam from joining.

If you have other specific concerns, let us know and we can address them one by one.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:49 PM

Thanks Leadfingers, what sort of personal information is available about members?

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: pdq
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:48 PM

There is a great deal of support for banning guests from starting threads. Much less support when it comes to banning guests from posting on existing threads.

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:31 PM

Don't let it put you off becoming a member.

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:30 PM

Postings from members can be replied to by a Personal Message , while postings from Guests can ONLY be responded to in the forum , which is why there are the Unpleasant Altercations in the threads on occasions !

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:25 PM

I think that sort of covers it Sandra.
G.

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: Bee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:25 PM

Sandra, I don't mind guests at all - I was one for a long time, but some Mudcatters are understandably annoyed that guests and members posing as guests can post trollishly. Really, I'd say it's members pretending to be strangers, who know many of the regular posters, and just post as guests in order to bait or play pranks or act offensively that are the problem.

Personally, I think they can be put up with, as many real guests drop in and are informative and delightful, sometimes they are musicians who have been discussed, or children of long passed song writers, for example.

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:24 PM

I'm the No-name guest

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,the OTHER other Danny Boy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:24 PM

and even from Seamus to Seamus

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,The other Danny Boy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:24 PM

from glen to glen

Subject: RE: Members Verses Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,Danny Boy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:23 PM

The pipes the pipes are calling . . . .

Subject: Members, Guests and Non de Plumes
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:09 PM

I have read countless times on Mudcat that guests should not be allowed to post. If lots of members are using all sorts of names except their real ones and guest are doing the same - whats the difference. I don't understand, I'm not trying to start an argument. I would like to know as I am thinking about becoming a member.