Audiences at music venues

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Jim Lad
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 09:23 PM

Audience/Session: Sorry, I just don't see the connection. Maybe I've just been exposed to the wrong sessions though.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 06:46 PM

Audience were a band in the 1970s they had an album called house on the hill. I think they played at music venues!

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 02:32 AM

Well thats nicely put Nick Ta.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 02:24 AM

It is the audience and landlord who will ultimately determine the future of any session. I have seen sessions die out because a small elite exclusive core will dominate with a very narrow range of musical tolerance. Eventually people vote with their feet and the landlord terminates any agreement. These sort of sessions should be held in a seperate closed room if the music played is for the players benefit alone!

The ideal session will usually have a theme Irish, English, whatever but will also be tolerant of other styles. Audiences may be noisy but if it's in the main bar then this is part of the experience. However if it is in a seperate bar wher the audience pay a fee then noise during a performance is unacceptable.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Nick
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 08:27 PM

>>I am not a performer, I do not sing or play any instruments or read poetry or tell jokes at music venues. My only mistake is being a music venue organiser.

I meant to comment on this earlier and was reminded of it last night by something that a new visitor said.

You are the catalyst (as well as the oil that makes the machine turn over).

Without catalysts most things don't work.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 02:34 AM

>>thinking, yup, sure don't want that to happen to us<<

More likely "wish I was 20 again, so I could chat her up" LOL

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: GUEST,Nicholas Waller
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 02:22 AM

Talking about new blood - at the acoustic place in Somerset I mentioned before, last night three A-Level music students appeared as their practicals are next week and the pub's landlady had encouraged them to come and get some performance practice.

One chap did a bit of classical guitar - Bach and Villa-Lobos. The other two did a Radiohead acoustic song together, then the one who looked like a young Roger Waters with his underpants six inches above his belt line did a complex, varied and subtle instrumental arrangement of George Harrison's "While My Guitar Gently Sleeps" and the other - who had a great voice and hair that flopped down over his eyes like the Dulux dog - did a song, the name of which I forget, which closed the evening.

And very well-received they were by the assembled crumblies mostly old enough to be their grandparents, despite the provocative display of copious hair (one older folkie who did a trad acapella ballad said he'd thought up to then that the club had a minimum age limit of 45...).

A couple of weeks ago the club's special Wednesday guest was James Chadwick (there are several) who's about 20. So as a non-peforming audience member, I do like to see variety and the odd new youngster as well as the venerables.

And it would be good if a couple more younger types showed up in the audience as well... it must be a bit odd for teenagers and 20-somethings to perform in front of listeners generally 2x or 3x (or in one case 4x) their age. (A couple of months ago a rather beautiful 20-something did her song Winter, which includes lines like "You say we're still young/ Our lives have just begun/ Beauty will leave me and time wear us down/ I don't want to grow old/ I don't want to die" and her audience of greyheads 30 or 40 years nearer the grave were no doubt thinking, yup, sure don't want that to happen to us).

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: HouseCat
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 03:21 PM

Maryrrf, we're hosting Jim Malcolm in the fall, what a nice guy he is too. Deciding to hold house concerts was one of the best decisions we've ever made. Best wishes to you!
HC

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Maryrrf
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 10:29 AM

We started a folk concert series in Richmond, Virginia that seems to be thriving - attendance is growing and our problem now is that if it continues we could outgrow the parking area of our venue. We started off in a small coffeeshop and the audience varied between 12 to a maximum of 45, which was all the venue could handle. We lost that venue and moved to a local synagogue, who offered us the space at a very modest fee. Now we usually get around 80 or more. It all seems to be down to word of mouth. Friends tell friends. We do take advantage of all the free publicity we can get in the local papers. All the acts we have ended up booking have been quite good, and that has helped. We haven't had any really big names - the best known would have been Jim Malcolm (ex lead singer of Old Blind Dogs)- still that would hardly be a household name around here! The concerts are once a month, and we provide coffee, tea and cookies (asking for a $1.00 donation). Our ticket prices are usually $10.00 in advance, and $12.00 at the door. At this point we have an e-mail list of around 200 people. We try to make it a "community" type experience - we greet our regular attendees by name and welcome newcomers. I think the key is that it just takes time to build up. I hope our success continues!

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 09:23 AM

>>even the most enjoyable groups of people sometimes go through times where 'everything gets a bit samey' <<

I suppose thats not an issue to people who come along and play, but to the listeners, that can have a drastic effect.

Anahata
2 of those people are in actual fact going to play at the club in the future.

Les

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Nick
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 09:17 AM

Many strange things with live music.

I have recently returned to playing in a rock/ish band after a break of 35 years and have played something like 10 gigs this year at various venues around York and most of the bands that I've met at gigs have all commented on the difficulty of dragging people out for an evening. Some of the bands have a good following locally but the audience is inevitably made up of friends who can be cajoled to come along. A 'Battle of the Bands' round we played in was probably the best attended with perhaps 80 people in the room. When I think about it from my end I don't go out a lot to many live acts unless I or one of my family or friends is playing unless it's someone very special.

But there are some strange things.

I went to an acoustic night in Helmsley (actually in Kirkbymoorside) and the hall was pretty packed. What I found strange was that I didn't recognise anyone there. It was a paid for evening and some of the performers were folky but I had never seen any of the audience at any of the folk clubs around where I live. I found it strange that there seem to be different local audiences that don't interact.

We don't advertise at our singaround because it is reasonably well attended and has a limited capacity. It works by word of mouth and that seems to suit at present. If we need to get more people it would not be too hard to increase its presence by various means. We are perhaps lucky that most people who come return - either regularly or infrequently - and that maintains a level of attendance.

This may be treading too close to some of the arguments on other threads, but I do think that new blood is incredibly important and this includes people coming to listen. Some of the people that I play with don't want it to change and grow but most of the places that I have been to that struggle are marked by seeing the same (often) small band of stalwarts gradually dwindle. Each time we have new blood in it just seems to fire people along a bit and make all the existing people who go try just that bit harder and usually leads to better evenings.

I'm lucky that the people who come regularly to our thing are friendly and welcoming and encourage newcomers to get involved because I think without the influx of new blood even the most enjoyable groups of people sometimes go through times where 'everything gets a bit samey' and that's when people tend to drift and try new places or get a bit bored and come less.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: treewind
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 08:36 AM

Les, there's no such thing as too much publicity.

You could leaflet every household within 10 miles and 90% of them still wouldn't know anything about it. We are all bombarded with so much advertising and publicity that we just ignore most of it.

Still, good to know you are getting new people in to your venue. Let's hope they keep coming back, and bring their friends with them.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 08:03 AM

>>Sometimes we get people coming to our concerts who were completely unaware of live local music and the talent that exists<<

Same here. I think I had 3 new couples and two people on their own last Friday who had never been before and had only recently become aware of the venue. They were all impressed and were amazed that they had never been before. And thats having advertised in the local papers/radio, handout diaries, posters and word of mouth over a few years.
Hard to understand.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Travelling Audience
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:38 AM

We were introduced to Folk when we went down south to cousins (Brian Jackson) Folk club in East Grinstead in the sixties and we have loved the different styles of music and performers ever since. We dont't actually expect anything only to be entertained in a friendly atmosphere....and we usually are.
It is only the last eight years we have been travelling to different clubs and are amazed at the amount of talent there is.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Stewart
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 05:24 PM

I've recently become involved booking and producing concerts for a community non-profit arts organization. We have a very nice hall (seats a max of 150) and it is our aim to get mainly local performers. Now all of my musician friends want more venues like this where they can perform, and we want to promote live music in the community. But so far the audience turnout has been meager. There's also another community live music series for local musicians in this area that has similar audience problems.

I guess the question is how do we get more people to turn out for live music. I've promoted concerts in the past so I know many things about publicity, press releases, posters and flyers, etc. Concentrating on the local folk musician community does not seem to be the answer since most of them are involved in their own gigs, jams, etc. and there are fewer of them compared to the non-musician community. I think people are conditioned by the commercial music industry to be passive consumers. They will come to hear the 'big names' from out of town for big $$$, but don't realize that there are some great talented local performers that they can hear for much less money.

Sometimes we get people coming to our concerts who were completely unaware of live local music and the talent that exists. This is the potential audience we would like to attract. There's probably no real answer - it's just a feature of our over-programed lives that people can never find time for these kinds of things. Is this a problem in other parts of the country?

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:15 PM

Some very interesting stuff there Guest Nicholas Waller and thanks for contributing. Just goes to show, not all the guests are bad :-)

That ones a hoot HouseCat

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: GUEST,Nicholas Waller
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:05 PM

One thing I find mildly annoying (as a non-performer) in the open-mic nights at the acoustic club I go to is that there are often several people chatting away at the back of the room while someone is trying to sing at the front - and these people are usually other performers waiting their turn. I do recognise, on the other hand, that it is a sociable event for the loyal regulars to meet and chinwag at and not necessarily a place for complete silence and rapt attention, but it does seem a bit disrespectful in a concert-style room. (And it costs £1 to get in!)

Background hubbub doesn't bother me at a much noisier session I have been to a couple of times in Bradford... the room is a normal working pub bar with normal people yakking away, and the session of around ten people sits around their regular table in the corner and sings to each other. Here the singing seems integrated into normal pub life, and you don't expect to hear the singer from more than a few feet away.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: HouseCat
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:10 PM

As a house concert presenter, once in a while I get someone who comes to a show that makes you wonder why on earth they are there. Last time was the woman who complained loudly thru the whole evening, "I can't understand a word she's saying!" and kept asking for "Danny Boy". (Very well-known Scots singer that night.) She finally had to be asked to be quiet or take herself away. Bad luck of it was - she was my own sister.
I'm teaching her the handy phrase, "I'll get me coat..."

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: GUEST,Nicholas Waller
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:09 PM

I don't sing or perform, and go to an acoustic club (which has a PA) in Somerset. They have a range of evenings - concert-style open-mic every Wednesday (£1) with an hour from a special guest one Wed a month (£2) and then big-cheese guests + support once a month on a Friday (£10).

Obviously I expect professionalism and good sound from the big-ticket acts, which I indeed got from the only two I have been to (John Kirkpatrick and The Devil's Interval). I pretty much expect that too from the £2 special guests, and I've seen some good ones: Ember, Megson, Sheila Chandra, Foo Foo... But anyway, these days most semi-pro & professional acts have Myspaces &c where you can get an idea of what it is they do in advance.

The completely open nights are more of a pot luck, of course. The organisers called the place "acoustic" so as to get a pretty wide range (and the lead organiser is not too keen on English traditional stuff unless it is very well done). I want some variety of performances and styles, plus a certain amount of brevity in preamble and delivery, so if there is a style (or a performer) I don't care for at least they'll be gone soon.

The range is generally pretty good; there's a tad too much of the blues, Americana from non-Americans and one-man-plus-guitar for my taste and not enough traditional English folk stuff - but having said that there are enough performers using pipes, hammer dulcimer, mountain dulcimer, piano, mandolin, violin, cello, alto sax, harmonica plus solo acappella traditional singers to keep me going back every now and then (though not every week). And I wouldn't want a diet of all acapella or trad stuff, either.

Occasionally a few of the regulars get together in fluid groups of various sizes (the biggest had eight) for individual songs, so it's not only solo performances but duos, solo-with-accompanists and impromptu bands, which mixes things up. There's a duo that does 20s and "Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia"-style songs, a bloke who does a convincing blues, an 80-year old chap who does Jez Lowe and Ralph McTell with fumbling fingers but an evocative voice, a chap who does longish ballads like Anachie Gordon and effective poems (like one on Cinderalla, where she decides the Prince is a violent creep and settles down with a jam-maker instead) and even an Irish guy with a good voice who regularly does Danny Boy...

Personally I don't care much for delicate jazz-tinged semi-spoken songs; long-winded unfunny "humorous" poems with poor rhymes; songs with a vague, abstract lyric and/or long-winded repetitive chorus (which might sound fine in a noisy rock band but are rather exposed done by a nervous solo singer-guitarist); shouty angsty songs; and semi-competent self-penned right-on songs by angry men in caps ("I'm going to do something different, edgy and political - an anti-war song that stuffs Blair and Bush!"). But even there, in moderation and with brevity, they can be fine (except the unfunny poems).

And I find that British performers putting on cod-American accents often grates. Americans singing Americana is fine, of course, but ballads of the railroad and wide open western skies sung by a Brit putting on an American accent often rubs me up the wrong way.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Deckman
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 12:32 PM

Thanks for the suggestion ... I just might do that!

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 12:15 PM

>>I have problems getting my voice across. <<

Not when you are singing Strollin' - you can certainly belt it out and you have such a lovely voice. That will make him blush LOL

Bob
Maybe when you have finished your set, you could hang a card round your neck in big print that says "I would love to talk, but my bladder is having a serious argument with my brain"
LOL

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Deckman
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 12:00 PM

Les ... you ask a good question: To be brutally honest, I usually recognize that the reason for the person giving me the lecture is so that he or she can feel important, or more knowledgable than me, or perhaps just feel included. And there certainly is nothing to critize in those endevers. But I also occasionally learn valuable information that causes me to research a song more.

The most serious difficulty with these kinds of "lectures" is that when they are happenning, I'm usually trying to get to the bathroom. Oh Well! It's all well intended! CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Marje
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:58 AM

"Its always difficult when one half likes one style or standard of music etc and the other doesn't. Don't know about you but I think its more relaxing if your partner doesn't go along when it doesn't suit their taste." - Villain.

Too right, especially if that partner is inclined to sit there muttering "I can't believe I paid to come and hear this. I mean, what does she think she sounds like?...Why doesn't he stop woffling and just sing his song?..." etc etc. It is far from relaxing to sit with someone like that, knowing they're not happy. I tend to screen or preview the sort of music on offer before I take him to events. Then when it's good, it's such a thrill to share it with him and know he'll enjoy it.

Marje

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:51 AM

I have problems getting my voice across.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:45 AM

John OTSC
>>look like you're having fun<<

I agree there. I think that if a performer can manage to do that, then the audience warms up to them very quickly.

Another thing that improves the performers rapport with the audience IMHO is the ability to make sure the audience can hear you, when you are talking to them. All too often, there is an assumption that when you talk to the audience that they can hear you, when in actual fact they can't. I am not knocking performers as i know how stressful it can be to perform in front of an audience. I always think its great to hear a performer no matter what standard they are, ask the audience in the far corners of the room if they can hear them Ok when they are talking and preferably right at the beginning of there set, and adjust the loudness of their voice accordingly.
I suppose the follow on from that is to talk slowly so that everybody can take on board what you have to say.
If you are having problems getting your voice across to the audience, isn't it better just to sing as many songs as possible.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Bee
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:31 AM

"look like you're having fun, play mostly correct notes; remember the words. "

...works for me too, but I'll add please not amplified so it can be heard four streets over. Music played really loud has driven me out of a lot of places where I was otherwise enjoying myself. Maybe my hearing's very good (oh lordy, I'll end like my mother: 84 and can hear a mere whisper of gossip at the neighbour's house!)

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:22 AM

Hey Nick, of course I know Paul Young. He has come on a bundle and its great when he comes and plays at my club.
If I am up in that area, I will do my best to pop in.

Marje
>>But if we're going to pay to get in, I'd prefer a bit of information about what sort of event and music we're going to find, and I'd hope for a reasonable overal<<
Good point there.
Its always difficult when one half likes one style or standard of music etc and the other doesn't. Don't know about you but I think its more relaxing if your partner doesn't go along when it doesn't suit their taste.

Bob
Do you actaully take on board what they tell you and try and adjust your future performances? I guess what I am trying to ask there, is - do you find it interesting to engage in conversation with them in such situations and use it to build on your knowledge. Does that make sense!!!!!!

Les

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:00 AM

Villan - I, too, do not (publicly) sing, play an instrument, nor otherwise perform. I'm a whiz with a radio, phonograph, CD player and tape player. And I am a very good audience. My expectations of performers are few: look like you're having fun, play mostly correct notes; remember the words.

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: GUEST,WMP
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:58 AM

When I go to a performance I prefer to find someone who is relaxed, able to joke with the crowd, not too pretensious, approachable and able to manage their sound systems. I think those things are just as important as the music. After all, if the music is great and the performer is an ass, why bother? Why support them?

WMP

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:43 AM

"corned by several non-performers" ????


sounds painful!

;-)

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Deckman
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:34 AM

Even though I am a performer, I'll jump in and post a comment. I recently performed at a house concert with close to 50 folks in the audience. While many other performers were there (it's called song collecting) I would guess that well over half the audience were NOT performers. And what constantly amazes me is that so very many of these non-performers are really very astute and learned folk music buffs. For example, after my concert, I was corned by several non-performers who apparently took great delight in either correcting me on a verse or two, and giving me a loooong lecture of this song or that song! But these are really the folks I was singing too. CHEERS and thanks for a good question, Bob Nelson

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Marje
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:26 AM

Do people care what sort of music it is?

Well, yes, because if you really don't like the sort of music it is, you won't be entertained, no matter how well it's done. The main thing is for the organiser to make it clear (if it's a promoted event) roughly what's to be expected. If it's a complete mixture and you never know what will come next, that can be made that clear too.

I tend to get involved and play/sing when I can, but my husband is strictly a non-performer and when I take him along to events, I have to consider them from his point of view.

If there's a PA involved, we are more wary, because this (in my experience) tends, in informal venues, to bump up the auduence noise levels and put up a bit of a barrier between audience and performers. We prefer unamplified performances, at least for small venues like pubs.

The standard of music/singing does of course matter as well as the genre. If I suspect there will be some really dire floor spots or self-penned poems, I know my husband will hate it and sit there making rude mutterings, so I leave him at home.

And there's the question of payment. If we get in free (eg a pub session or pub band) I'm happy to take it as it comes - we can always leave when we've had enough. But if we're going to pay to get in, I'd prefer a bit of information about what sort of event and music we're going to find, and I'd hope for a reasonable overall
standard.

Marje

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Nick
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 09:20 AM

Roger - if that's the funniest thing you've read in a long time you're reading too many serious things and perhaps need a trip to the humour section of the local library :) But in answer to your question it's a pub called the Thompsons Arms in Flaxton, North Yorkshire where we meet every Wednesday.

Les

We have a range of different things that go on each week but a typical night and selection of the performers might give you an idea of what people come for and expect. We go round in a circle; everyone has a chance to do what they want either solo or as an ensemble piece.

Unaccompanied singers get left alone and players join in if appropriate (and usually stop if it's inappropriate with little hassle. The exception to this was the north yorkshire mad mandolin player who didn't understand the rules and thought that everything would be improved by his out of time and tune playing; he hasn't come back and was the only person that I really dread meeting in a singaround. Last time I saw him - in another venue - I went for a walk and my friend told him not to play; he still played straight over some lovely players. Hide like a rhinoceros and all the tact and thoughtfulness of Atilla the Hun)

We have two fiddlers normally and they'll do a range of tunes interspersed through the evening.
There are something like 3 to 7 unaccompanied singers who will sing chorus songs or individual songs.
A friend writes his own material and plays guitar - I occasionally play second guitar or bass with him.
Paul Young you know.
A couple sing Irish songs, or Kieran Halpin things or Richard Thompson or whatever.
One plays Jake Thackeray songs.
One often does Les Barker poems.
I play guitar and sing either alone or with wife or sometimes sing unaccompanied if there are loads of guitar players there
There are sea shanties sometimes.
A banjo player who comes sometimes.
A concertina player from an Irish group.
etc etc

It's a balance of things and it has a nice atmosphere and people are welcome to contribute anything they want. Sometimes there are as few as 15 in the pub sometimes there are 40.

Some of those who come and listen like hearing the fiddle tunes ("that's 12 times I've come and at last you've played Ashokan Farewell" was the comment of one recently). One loves Bob Dylan songs so we do one every now and again. Ensemble versions of favourites like 'Star of the County Down' are enjoyed. The chorus singing of things like 'Thousands or More' or various 'Nancy' songs or similar are joined in by many or all in the pub and it's a great noise.

That's about it. Pop in sometime

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: bubblyrat
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 07:38 AM

Absolutely marvellous, Nick !! A superb piece of descriptive writing, and one of the funniest things I have read for a long time (especially the man who COULD play, but his wife won"t let him !!) .Your pub is deserving of a TV "sitcom" all of its own ! Wonderful !! ( Where is it ??) Cheers, Roger....

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 07:25 AM

Thats very good Nick to get so many non performers at a singaround and I think your last sentence sort of sums it up

>>In summary the audience come for partly social and partly musical reasons. And also have an expectation to be entertained! <<

Do you think thay care about what sort of music it is, as long as they are entertained ?

Subject: RE: Audiences at music venues
From: Nick
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:48 AM

We run a singaround in a local pub once a week and have somewhere between 5 and 20 people who come and do not perform. I'll ask them when I next see them but they come for a range of reasons.

One chap is local and lives over the road and would be in the pub anyway but really enjoys listening to the music and occasionally requests a favourite. Another comes regularly for much the same reason that he would be drinking anyway.

Three or four are local farmers - one comes because he really likes the music AND because he likes drinking beer and the social side of things. Four friends of his come regularly (from some distance) because they enjoy the music firstly but also enjoy the sociable side of having a drink with friends. Occasionally they are quite noisy but generally they listen. Sometimes though someone sings or plays something really good and the place goes silent - wonderful when it happens.

One comes with his wife who sings but he doesn't do anything (though he did tell me that he would only his wife wouldn't let him)

Two who used to come and listen were repressed singers/players and now contribute.

Three more come with friends and could play but don't. They enjoy the music and the company.

The pub is a really quiet pub normally - I was in briefly last night to deliver a poster promoting a gig we are doing in Friday and there were 2 people in. People come because there is 'something on' and to be social and to listen.

In summary the audience come for partly social and partly musical reasons. And also have an expectation to be entertained!

Subject: Audiences at music venues
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 05:29 AM

Over the few years that I have been a mudcatter, I have seen lots of threads about what constitutes Folk, what sort of music/songs should be played etc etc. A lot of these threads have become very heated indeed.

I am not a performer, I do not sing or play any instruments or read poetry or tell jokes at music venues. My only mistake is being a music venue organiser.

When I see all the arguments put forward, I would think that most of the people who post on such threads do in actual fact perform in some way or another.

So I got to wondering, just how many mudcatters go to a music venue purely to listen to other people and are not performers in any way shape or form.

I would like to know what non performer mudcatters expect when they go to a music venue, wether it be a singaround, open mic, session, concert.