BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?

Subject: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 May 07 - 11:44 PM

Found this on anther site and wondered if there's any truth to it. Who else to ask but all you shantey singers/pirates?!

Some say that the expression "Cat got your Tongue" comes from the days of sailing ships, and refers to the cat of nine tails. If an officer told someone something in secrecy, he might warn that he would 'get the cat' if he was to tell the others. When others wanted to gain information from a silent crewmate, they might thus say 'Tell us, or has the cat got your tongue! )

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: Amos
Date: 30 May 07 - 12:26 AM

I kind of find this dubious; unlike "letting the cat out of the bag" which makes direct sense. My guess, just an opinion, is it is much mor elikel to have derived from the self-satisfied silence of cats. I'm happy to be wrong about it, though! :D

A

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 07 - 12:31 AM

FWIW: ""HAS THE CAT GOT YOUR TONGUE? Why don't you speak? Your silence is suspicious. The saying originated in the mid-nineteenth century and was used when addressing a child who refused to answer a parent's questions after some mischief. Often shortened to `cat got your tongue?'." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996)."

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: Amos
Date: 30 May 07 - 12:47 AM

In any case, the actual origin of the phrase turns out to be rather tame in comparison to your imagination. To say that "the cat has got" someone's tongue is, of course, to say that the person is temporarily rendered speechless by either shock or embarrassment. It is almost always phrased as a question ("Has the cat got your tongue?") by someone who has the upper hand in the conversation, and is generally considered more refined than the alternative, "So say something, bozo."

There's no particular logic to "cat got your tongue," except that cats have served as the object of human myth and metaphor for thousands of years. No sooner did the first caveperson open the door to a yowling cat than people began concocting stories about cats. The black ones bring bad luck. They have nine lives. They suck out your breath while you're sleeping. They make those mysterious long distance calls that show up on your phone bill.

The most surprising thing about "cat got your tongue" may be its relatively recent vintage. While it certainly sounds as if it must have been dreamt up back in the Middle Ages, the earliest written example listed in the Oxford English Dictionary is from 1911.

From the "Word Detective" website. Not authoritative.


A

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 May 07 - 12:56 AM

Hehehe! Thanks, Amos, now I know what to tell the phone company!

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: skipy
Date: 30 May 07 - 06:36 AM

Some other poeple's thought, cut & paste from another site.

I always assumed that it meant a cat might be attracted to your tongue because it's always moving and snatched it out of your mouth, so I researched it. There's no uniform explanation, but it may have been:

The saying comes from the Middle East, where as punishment, liars had their tongues ripped out and fed to the king's cats.

Fear of a whipping with a cat-o'-nine-tails, or "cat" for short, could paralyze a victim into silence.

The expression comes from the Middle Ages when witches were greatly feared and often put to death. It was believed that if you saw a witch, her cat would somehow "steal" or control your tongue so you couldn't report the sighting.

"There's no particular logic to 'cat got your tongue,' except that cats have served as the object of human myth and metaphor for thousands of years."

Source(s):

http://ask.yahoo.com/20061102.html...
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: Micca
Date: 30 May 07 - 06:51 AM

and of course their is the inimitable WS Gilberts
In number ten or twelve, or even more,
They fastened me full length upon the floor.
On my face extended flat,
I was walloped with a cat
For listening at the keyhole of a door.
                   The story of Prince Agib

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 30 May 07 - 06:53 AM

"Who is to bell the cat?"
Who will risk his own life to save his neighbour's? Any-one who encounters great personal hazard for the sake of others is said to "bell the cat" The allusion is to the fable of the cunning old mouse (given in Piers Plowman and elsewhere) who suggested that they should hang a bell on the cat's neck to give notice to all mice of her approach. "Excellent", said a wise young mouse, "but who is to undertake the job?"

Quoted from the Wordsworth Dictionary of Phrase and Fable - lots of other "cat" references too!

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 30 May 07 - 08:47 AM

"No sooner did the first caveperson open the door to a yowling cat ... "

This is an excellent illustration of the principle that the introduction of any new technology that is intended to simplify life in fact creates new complications. Imagine that 'first caveperson', lying down on whatever he lay down on at night, exhausted but content after a long day of inventing, producing and installing the first door - and then, that 'yowling' ...

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 May 07 - 08:55 AM

According to my resident cats, Tilahun and Tejitu, (who speak in tongues), the question "Has the cat got your tongue?" is derived from the imperial Tung Dynasty in China. "Tongue" is obviously a mondegreen for "Tung" and the cats of the imperial household in the Forbidden City were exceedingly well cared for by the ruling dynasty. Thus, the expression originally meant "Are you as well-off as the imperial felines?" The meaning has changed through the ages as one might expect, given the demise of the Tung Dynasty which proved catastropic to the imperial felines.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: Amos
Date: 30 May 07 - 10:44 AM

That's a true cat's ass trophe if ever I heard on, Charlie.


A

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: Skivee
Date: 30 May 07 - 01:39 PM

Charlie, the way I heard it was the other way around,; that the dynastic emperors were both filled with a sense of regal entitlement, and a great love of felines. They would appropriate them from whomever and whereevert they wished.
Lowly peasents, who counted on the felines for rodent control would ask each other the lamenting question," Tungs got your cat?".
The pluralization was deleted through sloppy translation. Sic Semper Tyranus
There was a similar problem during the feudal period in Northern Europe. In response to the generally sucky conditions of life in the dark ages, some in the lower classes wanted to advance themselves. The royals had a natural aversion to mingleing with the lowere classes. Serfs were typically even filthier than the upper crust. In order to appear somewhat benevelant the royals devised an almost impassable test.
The candidate for peerage was put into a pit with a wild bear and a huge hunting dog and abandoned for the evening. The dog and bear were raised together, would get on famously, and frequently killed the candidate as a team. You would really have to be the life of that party to win them over. If the candidate survived till the next day, he would be proclaimed a knight and thus on the road to upper society. Most candidates were decapitated with a single ursine paw swipe.
The practice was too effective. Some royals realized inbreeding and courtly murder would deplete their regal numbers over time, and that new blood was, in fact, needed.
In a reversal of thinking, they began to encourage participants,; but the awful nature of the trial still kept applicants few and far between. The royals tried to improve partcipation by offering a "consolation prize" for the families of the now dead losers. They would award a puppy from the litter of the hound to the family of the deceased, and so make villagers feel better about entering. The reasoning appeared to be that,"For the mourning after a bad knight, nothing beats the dog of the bear that hit you."

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 May 07 - 02:29 PM

LOL!!! Keep 'em comin' guys! These are great!

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 May 07 - 09:45 PM

Fakelore--a fascinating study in itself.

Subject: RE: BS: cat o'nine got yer tongue?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 May 07 - 10:25 PM

Skivee-

Keep that ol' Tung oil a-burning!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble