BS: Pornography and intelligence

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 02:26 AM

As I said above, "pornography" (or erotica) is IMHO often more effective in written form than pictorial, and while it may in a sense be exploitative of women, no woman has necessarily been exploited (if permitting photographs of yourself in the requisite form is exploitation) in the creation.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 09:35 PM

Interesting thing I have noticed over the years.

Pictures on the covers of magazines, images of women in 'rock videos' etc have gradually veered towards what I as a youngster knew as 'soft porn'. To the extent that those images of women that are supposed to be 'sexy and enticing' are just boring mostly. And mostly all in the attempt to make money.

Sad, really.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:01 PM

Richard Bridge..it may be that folks simply don't wish to comment much on their 'personal' interests in a forum where their friends are and where their real identities are known....and I can't say I blame them. It is fairly easy to debate politics or religion, even though tempers rise...but do you want everyone knowing about the goat, the nun, the leather whips and the trampoline full of grape jello? (old family joke)

Captain Ginger... what has changed in the last 40 years, with the invention of Polaroid images, video cameras, computers and digital images...and the the WWW/internet....is that "everyday pornography" seems to have a much wider range, because anyone can create it: text or images....though there will obviously always be the "remarkably tasteless" area....just as McDonald's will always florish, even with good restaurants near.

I sometimes visit a forum where no topic is off-limit, and I see posts referring/directing folks to sites where 'almost' any form of porn is available...and I have on occasion seen some explicit, though artistic & elegant, divergences from the 'usual'.

As for exploitation of women: that is a tricky one. It seems that many women, once the choice is theirs, cooperate willingly in situations where they WILL be 'exploited'...like the public flashing at Mardi Gras and Spring Break.....and worse. I have no idea how to judge where the line is between free exercise of personal whims and coercion...though I can identify clear examples at both ends of the spectrum.

What IS clear is that the world is changing....for better or worse....and that with technology being what it is, pornography will never be hard to obtain, as it was when I was a curious 17 year old. All we can do is seek to limit explicit 'public' displays that are not appropriate for kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 12:17 PM

My problem with everyday pornography is twofold - in most of its manifestations it seems to be degrading and exploitative towards women and therefore devoid of actual erotic charge, and it also seems to be remarkably tasteless. It's as though pornographers pitch everything at an aesthetic that makes the red-top tabloids seem sophisticated.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 10:07 AM

Yes. It was in a film, wasn't it?

It seems the good catters are too old or too tame or too embarrassed to display interest in pornography. Don't worry, Andrea Dworkin is not looking (I hope).

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 11:06 AM

"Annie Sprinkles"...LOL...now there's a name from the past! It was once said of Annie that she'd do anything....as long as it hadn't been done before.
She was hardly an example of elegance, but she approached her profession with a rare honesty, and if I remember correctly, her family knew all about her career.



hey...you want erotic imagry? e.e. cummings!

she being Brand

-new;and you
know consequently a
little stiff i was
careful of her and(having

thoroughly oiled the universal
joint tested my gas felt of
her radiator made sure her springs were O.

K.)i went right to it flooded-the-carburetor cranked her

up,slipped the
clutch(and then somehow got into reverse she
kicked what
the hell)next
minute i was back in neutral tried and

again slo-wly;bare,ly nudg. ing(my

lev-er Right-
oh and her gears being in
A 1 shape passed
from low through
second-in-to-high like
greasedlightning)just as we turned the corner of Divinity

avenue i touched the accelerator and give

her the juice,good

                              (it

was the first ride and believe i we was
happy to see how nice she acted right up to
the last minute coming back down by the Public
Gardens i slammed on

the
internalexpanding
&
externalcontracting
brakes Bothatonce and

brought allofher tremB
-ling
to a:dead.

stand-
;Still)

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:41 AM

There is some truly appalling writing at ASSTR! And a little quite good writing.

Annie Sprinkles came (if that is the right word) close to redefining pornography and obscenity as a performance art form. In case you wonder how I know, she was (I am proud to say, challenging subject for a young girl) the subject of my daughter's degree thesis...

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 04:25 AM

Fooles - he doesn't have the equipment... or at least the safety ropes.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:22 PM

The sky was dark, the moon was high
All alone - just she and I.

Her hair was soft and eyes were blue
I knew just what she wanted to do.

Her skin so soft, her legs so fine
I ran my fingers down her spine.

I didn't know how, but I tried my best
I started by placing my hands on her breast.

I remember my fear, my fast beating heart
But slowly she spread her legs apart.

And when I did it, I felt no shame
All at once the white stuff came.

At last it's finished, it's all over now
My first time ever at milking a cow.....




.... a truly moo-ving story....

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:15 PM

"otherwise he of the 136 IQ wouldn't know which side to get out."

Well he might end up climbing over you....

which is sorta on track for how thread thread is turning out....

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 08:09 PM

Betty Dobson's website features many of her efforts to enlighten people on how to be erotic and not ashamed by what some may turn pornographic. She is an incredible woman.

Another very interesting site to explore is Alt. Sex Stories Text Repository. There are members there who have been writing stories on there for years and have quite a few followers, eager for their next instalments.

Both are interesting sites, imo, and have some relation to this discussion.

As to stories...I posted this one back in '01 in the 100 word story challenge thread:

Silently, unbidden he joined her on the bed, brushing softly against her back, coming round to whisper in her ear, making promises. Promises of never parting; lying in a green meadow; soft winds lightly scented with roses; and the soothing splash of a rill. A summer's day spent together in eternity.

Turning, she stroked him, languidly, murmuring lovesongs in his ear. He gazed at her with sea green eyes. His low voice caressed her in return, filling her with warmth, contentment, undying love. As soon as he'd purred her to sleep he began his nightly bathing ritual: right paw first...

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Nick
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 07:54 PM

I started an erotic fiction site some years ago. Mostly just to see if I could. Porn was out there when the internet came along and it seemed interesting to try and see if you could dabble in it. No pictures - no hardcore stuff; in my view anyway.

It still exists and though I haven't updated it for years it has somewhere between 600-1000 visitors a day still (at it's height it was a lot more; it's probably had several million visitors over time). Which is bizarre or a testament to the quality of the writing LOL. (I also can't get rid of it because it's a part of my history...)

It was fronted up with a female persona and I used to get as much contact from women as men.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 06:55 PM

Pausing, he looked suddenly thoughtful. He was in fact resuming his interior monologue.

"That is to say," he elaborated, in silence, "I'm not particularly hungry, at the moment - after all, it's only been twenty minutes since that delightful dish of - whatever it was. As for being a 'moggy', however - I may or may not be. You see, I have only recently arrived from the colonies, and haven't the foggiest notion as to what a 'moggy' may or may not be. I will, for the present, refrain from responding either in the negative or the positive to that aspect of the query."

Satisfied to leave the matter thus, he resumed his former activity.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 06:47 PM

I wasn't thinking of sex with cats particularly. (Although it adds a whole new dimension to the term 'sex kitten')

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Alan Day
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 06:18 PM

Thanks for a good laugh Liz.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 01:33 PM

'Not me' he thought as he turned and licked his own bollocks.







Fooles - I have to, otherwise he of the 136 IQ wouldn't know which side to get out.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 01:24 PM

...the cushion cover. She tickled him under the chin, and he purred loudly. "Who's a hungry moggy?" she said.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 11:45 AM

' .......... Laura felt his hot breath on her cheek as he ripped the thin silk from..............

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 10:57 AM

Without getting into specifics, I noticed a while back that I can read an erotic story about something I wouldn't normally find erotic and the author's excitement was transmitted so that it became erotic. I wouldn't react at all to photos or videos of the same acts.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 10:50 AM

"...we sit in the pub..."

WE? You are maybe Siamese twins, Lorcan? *grin*...I get to a pub perhaps 5-6 times a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: InOBU
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 08:03 AM

Depends on your age ... as the human male gets older, the largest sex organ is the elbow ... we sit in the pub drinking away our grief until we get notion to wander home and announce the mating call, "Honey! I'm home!" just before the floor rushes up at your face.

good grief
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 03:28 AM

Those without minds or imagination? Sun readers? Star readers? Sport readers?

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 01:49 AM

For a brief happy moment I thought the title of the thread meant someone had made the connection between being as thick as a kish of brogues (AmTrans: dumb as a sack of rocks) and liking pornography.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 12:09 AM

Gee Liz,

I dunno how you can get up in the morning with an IQ that low...


:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: JennyO
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 12:05 AM

By the way, who exactly are those who do NOT have "minds and imagination"?

The name "Shane" springs to mind... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:46 PM

How to take it? Not too seriously; I'm just trying to amuse the groundlings. Just that the post in question is one of the longest ones on the thread, so far ... nothing wrong with that, though!

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:30 PM

???...I'm not sure how to take that. I have, in fact, avoided saying a lot that was on my mind, as I'm not sure Mudcat is the place for some aspects of a dissection of pornography.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:24 PM

"I wish it were not so hard to discuss it all."

You don't seem to be having much trouble so far!

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:16 PM

Severn! Go to your room....no, on 2nd thought, I'm not sure you could be trusted there....

;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Severn
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 07:08 PM

What is the result when you combine Pornography and Intelligence?

In some cases, a stroke of genius.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 06:37 PM

"...who exactly are those who do NOT have "minds and imagination"?"

Well...I can verify that some are seriously lacking in that department. 3 years in an adult bookstore opened my eyes to how sadly narrow some folks minds are/were. Some needed garish, explicit (read:'crude') pictures and short declarative sentences in stories. Others had complex, imaginative tastes.

Ebbie...no relation that I know of...*grin*....and yes to " I conjecture that it is the contrast between cloth and skin.",

in many ways clothing, lighting, partial exposure...etc...can 'mean' more than total nudity....although nudity can be an art form in itself, and doesn't have to presume eroticism.

I remember when I was a graduate teaching assistant in college in the 60s, and dress styles were changing for the young women. Full length pantyhose were a new item, and garter belts were still common. It was a revelation to me that a carelessly arranged skirt was not nearly so...ummm...'interesting' when the girl was wearing these new full-length hose. I decided it was that 'seeing' the top of nylons held by a garter was some sort of accomplishment...a goal...whatever.
I even saw a cartoon where one character said to another..."I prefer mini-skirts to those slitted skirts. I don't have to be so alert!"

So, sure partial draping, exotic fabrics, 'planned' partial exposure all are intended to attract and retain attention. Most women learn this early, I think. The degree and type of exposure has changed, but leaving something to the imagination is still a standard ploy.

Mardi Gras in New Orleans has a recent theme where young women will 'flash' to collect extra beads, and streaking is still a common game at some schools, I gather. And being technically 'forbidden' is what makes it exciting. If total nudity were legal & common, it would be less interesting.

This is such a complex part of life...I wish it were not so hard to discuss it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 03:18 PM

Well it's common enough for people to describe all kind of thing as "obscene" - for example the money that the fat cats in business pay themselves, or the war in Iraq, or the number of people killed on the roads.

We shouldn't jump to the conclusion that they are classifying them as "pornography. The way we use language, and always have used language is more complicated than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 02:27 PM

Traveling down Alan Day's path (any relation to you, Bill?) I read somewhere that the Japanese teach that a half clothed body in the sex act is more erotic than the fully nude one. I conjecture that it is the contrast between cloth and skin. Any ideas on this?

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Alan Day
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 02:10 PM

A lovely face, A lovely personality, a posture,a woman running her fingers through her hair, a smile , a certain look or glance, it can make your day.Pornographers have got it all wrong,ladies for most of the time are far more erotic clothed than not.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 02:09 PM

" ... it is also often the case that imaginative minds create or seek well-done images....photos, videos, drawings..etc." - the latitude that visual material permits to the imagination (in place of the dictation effected by verbal material) being a more effective means of sexual titillation in those who have minds and imaginations.

(By the way, who exactly are those who do NOT have "minds and imagination"?)

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:53 PM

It is just not that simple, Richard. Sure, it is OFTEN the case that imaginative minds are drawn to creative writings where the mind can supply the images needed from inside, but it is also often the case that imaginative minds create or seek well-done images....photos, videos, drawings..etc.

Intelligence is one factor...mood, habit, influences..etc...also affect what someone chooses, and even quite intelligent folks may differ widely in what they choose for specific situations.....much like a gourmét might have a meal at McDonalds when struck by a need for salt & fat...*grin*

There is little in life that is harder to predict than sexual preferences, as we often develop them privately, with little guidance.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:34 PM

Is the skin an organ? Is it art or pornography? I spy the definition of folk music coming round again.

I am surprised that it does not seem to be taken as read that the latitude that verbal material permits to the imagination (in place of the dictation effected by pictorial material) is a more effective means of sexual titillation in those who have minds and imaginations.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 12:34 PM

McGrath, I think it was a subtle departure from the accepted art of the day that she responded to. It was made clear to the adults in the family that the portrait for the patron was financially important, but she wasn't convinced. But for my point, I wasn't considering that she was seeing the evidence of a relationship or not, but that her "way of seeing" translated into "pornography" in her mind. For some people, it doesn't take much for them to decide it is pornographic. (At least, the publicly expressed opinion, regardless of what the private consumption might entail--but I stray into the domain of religious figures and politicians if I head in this direction).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 12:30 PM

Oooh.. I love Hildegarde, I must remember to listen again tomorrow.

Hildegarde was an amazing woman... in an age when women were goods and chatels, she told the Pope off!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 12:23 PM

Woman's Hour this morning had an item on Hildegard of Bingen, with an interesting quotation of her account of the part the female brain plays in orgasm.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 12:00 PM

Oh, my IQ is 137.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:53 AM

I don't know if it's just me but pictures do nothing for me. A good raunchy book on the other hand can get me all hot under the collar.

But what does it most of all is the other person actually taking time to ask me what I like, what I would like him to do and treating me as if I were an active and participating person, rather than a recepticle for the end product.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 09:35 AM

I don't think Vermeer's wife is to be taken as being shocked because she see the picture as pornographic, but rather because of the implication she reads into it about the relationship between her husband and the model. Not unreasonably in the context.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 09:11 AM

I don't know ... chimp behinds - male or female - don't do much for me ...

(That proves it - finally: I'm more intelligent than a chimp.)

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 09:00 AM

Chimp behavior research showed that male chimps traded the equivalent of money, food credits, for videos of female chimp behinds.

I wonder if humans would do that or if we are too intelligent.

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 08:09 AM

ROFLOL

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Bee
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 07:51 AM

Georgiansilver, it ain't two brains - it's the rush of blood away from the brain, thus starving it with sometimes unfortunate results. ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 05:15 AM

The brain being the central control for all the senses would suggest that it is the 'responsible' sexual organ...HOWEVER...where does that fit in with the theory that some women have about men having two brains...... only one of them being able to function at a time?

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: skipy
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 04:46 AM

19 weeks & 1 day to Erotica 2007!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Pornography and intelligence
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 03:28 AM

D H Lawrence!!! What decade is this?