Royalties - How Much

Subject: Royalties - How Much
From: Black Hawk
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 11:27 AM

Following on from the 'secondhand CDs' thread, how much does the copyright owner expect when you include their song whilst recording a CD?

If I record ten songs on my PC Studio program and burn it to CD what percentage do I send to the songwriter?

For example :-

CD sells for £10
Cost of cover printing, writable disc and case is £5
Ten songs @ 50p each.
10% to writer is 5p
50% to writer is 25p
Doesn't seem much!

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: Black Hawk
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 11:28 AM

Sorry - forgot to add :-

Ten different writers!

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: MMario
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 01:25 PM

well - in the US it isn't a percentage - it is a flat amount per song,per copy, with various rates depending on length of song.

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: GUEST,Black Hawk unlogged
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 02:06 PM

Thanks MMario

Is that for all artists?

Sorry - same rate no matter who the artist is?

Going out now but will look in on my return

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 10:37 PM

Black Hawk -

are you including their original performances, or are they all your performances?

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: GUEST,Black Hawk unlogged
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:03 AM

All my performances!

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: Howard Jones
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:51 AM

You don't pay them directly. In the UK it's dealt with by MCPS:

http://www.mcps-prs-alliance.co.uk/Pages/default.aspx

You pay them a fee depending on how much of the material is copyright and how many CDs you will be producing and they handle it in a similar way to PRS for live performances

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 07:02 AM

I assume then Hawk, that they are all your arrangements too... :-)

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: GUEST,Black Hawk unlogged
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 07:07 AM

The material is written by friends of mine.

Nothing to do with MCPS, PRS etc.

Any money paid would NOT end up with the writers I am sure.

Thought this may be the case though.

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 07:49 AM

Well, if you get a written release from the authors, especially if it states that they are bypassing MCPS, PRS, etc, you have covered your arse then mate.... :-)

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: treewind
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 08:18 AM

Black Hawk: If your friends are PRS members, in theory you should report your CD "production run" to PRS, though if it's not a pressing and in small quantities then PRS probably wouldn't be interested.

If the songwriters are not PRS members, they have no organised body to protect their copyright, which is their problem, but if you want to do some sort of deal with them to pay them for the use of their songs you can draw up any prices and terms you like. (I would advise the writers not to assign you copyright though!).

"Bypassing" PRS isn't illegal, but if your songwriters aren't members they might regret it if their songs become popular enough to get performed at PRS licensed venues such as any folk festival

It's a good idea to make sure they are credited with the songs, and to state that your songwriting friends own the copyright, so if anybody takes one of your CDs and duplicates them for sale you can demonstrate that they knew they were breaking copyright.

There isn't really a "going rate"; it's whatever you negotiate with them.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: GUEST,woodsie
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 08:41 AM

I worked for Decca Records (UK) in the early 70s I worked in the accounts department. I saw a lot of contracts with Publishers/artiste. I was quite suprised at the apparently small % paid to a lot of the people at that time it was usually something like 2.35% of 70% of wholesale value of units sold. At that time the Wholesale value of an album of say 12 songs was approx 50 Pence. That equates to about 0.06 pence per song to the writer! Mind you Decca were old school and the independant labels were on the rise. Bands like The Stones, Thin Lizzy etc ran as soon as their contacts were up!

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 09:32 AM

Thanks for the responses folks!

Any CDs I burn will be mainly for audiences in clubs I attend. We are talking tiny figures here. I cannot see many people wanting to listen to me in the comfort of their homes. Different when they've 'had a few'. LOL

Still want to play right by my friends though!

Subject: RE: Royalties - How Much
From: GUEST,Black Hawk unlogged
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 09:33 AM

Sorry - 9:32 post was me - forgot I wasn't logged in!