Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?

Subject: HELP: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: JWB
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:16 AM

There are two chanteys (that I know of) which contain a reference to "long tail blue", viz.:

ONE MORE DAY
Get out yer long tail blue, my Johnnie
One More Day
Make yer port and take yer due, my Johnnie
One More Day.

and

RANZO RAY
We're putting on our long tail blue to dance the girls around...

I've not come across this expression in any of the reading I've done, only in the lyrics of these two songs. What does it mean?

Jerry

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 03:36 AM

Isn't this the thing?

Title: My Long Tail Blue.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: na
Publication: New York: J.L. Hewitt & Co., 239 Broadway, n.d..
Form of Composition: strophic with chorus
Instrumentation: piano and voice
First Line: I've come to town to see you all, I ask you how d'ye do?
First Line of Chorus: O! for the long tail blue. Oh! for the long tail blue

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:06 AM

That's the beastie - A Long Tailed Blue Coat!

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:11 AM

Lyrics wouldn't stand up in this day and age would they?
G.

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Megan L
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:22 AM

Ach i dont know
"Put on yer wee blue hoodie boys."


Nah perhaps yer right :)

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:31 AM

After uniform was finally introduced into the British fleet just before Nelson's day, it gradually developed into different forms of uniform (e.g. No.1s - etc.) The long-tailed blue was the dress uniform for official or for 'dress' occasions and definitely for on-shore activity to impress the girls!
Tom Brown

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:00 AM

Here is an interesting article about the Blue Coat school in Liverpool. There are several of theses schools in the UK, and I don't know if they are related one to another, except in the relationship of the colour blue to charities. Interesting though that this particular one was founded by a Master Mariner in 1708, which sort of gives the link to the Dress Blue' coat of mariners in those days.
Giok

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:46 AM

Masato's link suggests a possible (blackface) minstrel connection - as do a few other Google hits.

Regards

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Trevor
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 07:07 AM

It's a parrot of course!

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:36 AM

The long tail blue coat showed up in minstrel song; perhaps inspired by the British naval dress or perhaps by the fashion of the time, but I don't have good references on fashions of the past.

I think a previous thread discussed the minstrel song.

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 02:01 PM

"Long Tail Blue" was published 1834 or earlier; a copy with date 1837 has several songs and the single sheet music copies lack a printed date. The Levy collection has several.
A longer version "as sung by Mr. W. E. Pennington" and published in Baltimore by Geo. Willig has a typewritten attachment with the date "circa 1834. Sung by Mr Dixon." This version was posted in thread 69384"
Long Tail Blue

The Traditional Ballads Index lists George Washington Dixon, 1827?, as possible composer. Roud 1287.

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 02:24 PM

Wackypedia has information on the dress uniform with long tail blue, but there should be better references.
Windsor uniform

A blue or black tail coat is much used in dressage.

For Royal Navy use at Royal Naval College, 1822, see: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~ausnavy/Navy_Life.htm

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 07:14 PM

• Long tailed Blue coats were naval uniform
  
• "Long tail blue" is mentioned in a couple of shanties
  
• Shanties were not sung in the navy, only on merchant ships
  
• Therefore merchant seamen were singing about putting on naval uniforms.

Discuss

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: JWB
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 12:21 AM

Snuffy, my thoughts exactly. I'm no historian of fashion, yet all the early 19th century images of sailors ashore that I've seen -- even of RN swabs -- show them in short jackets. Perhaps by the 1830s and 40s the fashions had changed, especially if a song about a particular style of coat in the minstrel shows was a big hit, and merchant seamen were buying the latest togs without any thought of a relationship to naval uniform.

Being away from home I can't delve into my chantey collections for help; it would be fascinating to try and link the age of the two chanteys to the period of popularity of the Long Tail Blue song. I'm feeling persuaded by Masato's and Q's links that perhaps the chantey reference is to the 1835 equivalent of the zoot suit, white T-shirt and pegged trousers, or leather warm-up jacket.

Is there any way of discovering how popular Mr. Dixon's song was?

Jerry

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: The Doctor
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:46 AM

In 'Cawsand Bay' the girl, having got her man discharged from the navy,   then 'got a shore tailor to rig her young sailor in fine nankeen breeches and a long blue-tailed coat. He looked like a squire for all to admire, with his dimity handkerchief tied round his throat.' The song was recorded by Dave Burland on his 1972 LP 'Dave Burland'. (If you only hear and don't see the words then it becomes the only folk song I know to refer to an iconic 60s television presenter.)

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 07:59 PM

I don't have any references but surely this is just a way of saying , "Put on your best gladrags boys, we're going ashore". maybe longtailed blue coats were high fashion at the time of both the shanties and the minstrel song although given the improvisational nature of shanties they, or these verses in them, could have come along after the minstrel song, maybe a long time after.

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: JWB
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:18 PM

I have to confess I don't get The Doctor's reference. Am I too young? On the wrong continent?

So, three sailor song references to a long-tail blue (coat). It's adding up, on my calculator, to a fashion statement.

But The Doctor's excerpt from 'Cawsand Bay' begs the question, "What is dimity?' Anything like calico? Or chintz, p'raps? I'm just woefully undereducated on historical fabrics. Is there a reference out there?

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:26 PM

Dimity- A sheer cotton fabric, plain weave in stripes or checks.
In other words, a good hanky. (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary)

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:17 AM

JWB: it's to a bloke by the name of Shaw Taylor

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: The Doctor
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 11:16 AM

Shaw Taylor, although an actor, is best remembered for presenting Police Five, a forerunner of Crimewatch, and that is the sort of joke my friends love me for.
Nankeen, since no-one asked, is a sturdy yellow or buff coloured cotton cloth, often used for trousers, and getting its name from Nanking in China where it was first made.

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:01 PM

But DID his Long Tail Blue make Nan keen ??

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:30 PM

Commedians! There's one in every....

But someone is bound to ask about nankeen-nankin -
A durable brownish yellow cotton fabric orig. loomed by hand in China. Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.

Subject: RE: Meaning: Long Tail Blue in sea songs?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:41 PM

STOP! STOP! STOP!

This is too much information for my poor brain. I only have some much memory left and if I imput more other, maybe, important stuff will be displaced.

Charley Noble